Simultaneous HDMI and Analog Audio Out - Is it possible? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 112 Old 06-04-2010, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Not working.

Downstreams everything to 2 channel stereo --- even thru the HDMI.

Dammit. This is frustrating.

I don't understand what you were expecting to happen otherwise? This makes sense to me--if you want two channel analog output everything is going to have to be downmixed to 2ch, including digital outputs.

Did you look at other threads regarding the same "problem"?

It's not exactly an OS issue as different audio devices can certainly be output to at the same time. The thing is with Vista and 7, each output type is treated as a different/separate audio device. So your application would have to support outputting to two outputs simultaneously which I don't think I've seen an app do (though I imagine DJ progs might be able to?).

It is definitely possible though to output more than one at once. For example set your default device to "Speakers" (analog output) and then playback a file like an MP3 with WMP. The use another audio player (like WinAmp, MediaMonkey, etc.) to output to a specific output (like HDMI) and playback the same file, at the same time. You'll see both outputs will work from each player. The problem is getting one [software] player that will output to two or more devices at once, from the same playback material.

To do what you want it would additionally have to downmix analog output to the "Speakers" device while maintaining the original or bitstream signal for the HDMI output. So now you've got a second problem. Not only are you going to have a hard time finding the first requirement, the second one is another thing to worry about.

I mean the PS3 can do this now, but even it couldn't originally (started with fw 3.00 or something).
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post #32 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry. I guess I wasn't clear enough about what I want to do.

I have an AV receiver (Denon) and I want to use zone 2 to power in-ceiling speakers that I have installed throughout my house and outside. The AV receiver will not play digital material through zone 2 as it uses the Digital-to-Analog processor for zone 1 and therefore does not have a 2nd DA processor for zone 2 (almost all multi-zone receivers operate in this way).

So what I want to be able to do is play digital sound via HDMI thru my AV receiver in zone 1 (aka my main zone in my living room) but be able to switch automatically to analog via the analog out of the HTPC when I use zone 2.

So bascially my setup is...

Zone 1 - HTPC HDMI out --> AV receiver HDMI in --> HDTV (video) and AV receiver amp (audio)
Zone 2 - HTPC analog out --> AV receiver zone 2 analog in --> AV receiver zone 2 via RCAs

So how do I get the HTPC to switch automatically between the 2?

Right now I have to go into the controls to change it each time.
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post #33 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 10:31 AM
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Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I had success over the weekend hooking up both zones on my HTPC. Just a cabling issue where I didn't hook up the analog cable to the "Line out" on the motherboard. Once I correctly connected a RCA y-cable to the AVR inputs, I got audio on both zones at the same time.

So I can confirm that two zone output is possible with a Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H motherboard, Denon 2309ci AVR, and Windows 7. No toggling necessary within the OS.
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post #34 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Sorry. I guess I wasn't clear enough about what I want to do.

I have an AV receiver (Denon) and I want to use zone 2 to power in-ceiling speakers that I have installed throughout my house and outside. The AV receiver will not play digital material through zone 2 as it uses the Digital-to-Analog processor for zone 1 and therefore does not have a 2nd DA processor for zone 2 (almost all multi-zone receivers operate in this way).

So what I want to be able to do is play digital sound via HDMI thru my AV receiver in zone 1 (aka my main zone in my living room) but be able to switch automatically to analog via the analog out of the HTPC when I use zone 2.

So bascially my setup is...

Zone 1 - HTPC HDMI out --> AV receiver HDMI in --> HDTV (video) and AV receiver amp (audio)
Zone 2 - HTPC analog out --> AV receiver zone 2 analog in --> AV receiver zone 2 via RCAs

So how do I get the HTPC to switch automatically between the 2?

Right now I have to go into the controls to change it each time.

As far as I know, you can't do what you're looking to do, unless a script/program exists that will toggle the default audio device and you can hook that up to a remote control code that you could trigger to happen when you turn on Zone 2.
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post #35 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I had success over the weekend hooking up both zones on my HTPC. Just a cabling issue where I didn't hook up the analog cable to the "Line out" on the motherboard. Once I correctly connected a RCA y-cable to the AVR inputs, I got audio on both zones at the same time.

So I can confirm that two zone output is possible with a Gigabyte GA-E7AUM-DS2H motherboard, Denon 2309ci AVR, and Windows 7. No toggling necessary within the OS.

So what did you have it hooked up to on your HTPC previously?
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post #36 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

So what did you have it hooked up to on your HTPC previously?

I was just using the HDMI audio only to zone 1. After installing some outdoor speakers, I wired my zone 2 to use the analog audio. I'm not sure which Denon AVR you have, but I also had to configure the AVR to output the surround back speakers inputs to zone 2 instead of using them in a 7.1 configuration.
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post #37 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 01:49 PM
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I can't see how the computer would be able to switch to the analog output automatically. How would it know when you want the analog to be used? Analog does not have the bi-directional communications link like a DVI or HDMI port has.

Try to use music playback software which allows the audio device to be selected outside of Windows, ie you select the audio device in the program itself. If your video application is set to use the Windows HDMI setting and this other program is using the analog then when you run it to play music you'll get audio over the analog.

Knowing your receiver model number would help because the 2 Denon models I looked at just seem to use one of the common inputs for the zone 2 source (the same ones zone 1 or the main system uses). They don't seem to have a seperate zone 2 input.


Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

Sorry, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I had success over the weekend hooking up both zones on my HTPC. Just a cabling issue where I didn't hook up the analog cable to the "Line out" on the motherboard. Once I correctly connected a RCA y-cable to the AVR inputs, I got audio on both zones at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

I was just using the HDMI audio only to zone 1. After installing some outdoor speakers, I wired my zone 2 to use the analog audio. I'm not sure which Denon AVR you have, but I also had to configure the AVR to output the surround back speakers inputs to zone 2 instead of using them in a 7.1 configuration.

That still doesn't make sense. You split the analog line-out from the motherboard with a Y adapter and fed it to both zone inputs on the receiver at the same time?

Did you also wire up the HTPC to receiver so you can do 5.1 or 7.1 on the receiver using analog audio?

This still doesn't address how to get HDMI audio and analog audio simultaneously (since you can't). That could work if you used analog for all audio but you lose bitstreaming. You'd likely also just have the mains of the surround 5.1 or 7.1 signals during audio playback, unless you changed the speaker setting from 5.1 to stereo when playing back music (about as bad as changing the audio device each time).

Peter
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post #38 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshDorhyke View Post

That still doesn't make sense. You split the analog line-out from the motherboard with a Y adapter and fed it to both zone inputs on the receiver at the same time?
Peter

No, the Y-Cable was used to take the single 3.5 mm line out from the MB and input to the L/R RCA inputs on the AVR. No splitting involved here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshDorhyke View Post


This still doesn't address how to get HDMI audio and analog audio simultaneously (since you can't). That could work if you used analog for all audio but you lose bitstreaming. You'd likely also just have the mains of the surround 5.1 or 7.1 signals during audio playback, unless you changed the speaker setting from 5.1 to stereo when playing back music (about as bad as changing the audio device each time).

Peter

I'll have to check what type of audio I'm getting on Zone 1 (stereo or 5.1) tonight. But I can tell you that without *any* intervention, I'm getting audio to both zones at the same time with this MB. Using W7 MC for audio playback.
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post #39 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 02:48 PM
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I recently came across this problem while trying to send an audio signal to my AVR for inside music while sending to zone 2 (outside) to the speakers outdoors.

I did find a solution that is less than optimal, but still works.

In Windows Media Player you can select the default audio steam, which I have set to Analog audio out.

So, all sound on computer is defaulted to HDMI passthrough via HD5850 to AVR. However, when I use windows media player it defaults to Zone 2 outside. So I can play 2 audio streams at once using windows media player and mediamonkey/windows media center/etc...

To play the same thing inside and out I would have to use 2 seperate programs, 1. being windows media player, 2. being anything else is windows.

Zone 1:
Any Windows Program ---> HDMI Out ---> AV Receiver ----> 5.1 Setup

Zone 2(outside):
Windows Media Player(default set to analog) ---> analog out ---> Pyle 2x75w amplifier ----> 2.0 Outside Speakers
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post #40 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

I'll have to check what type of audio I'm getting on Zone 1 (stereo or 5.1) tonight. But I can tell you that without *any* intervention, I'm getting audio to both zones at the same time with this MB. Using W7 MC for audio playback.


That didn't just work. What did you set-up to make it output audio on the HDMI and analog at the same time? No-one else can get audio on both HDMI and analog to work properly, except that other solution posted here which appears to make both output stereo at the same time and defeats the purpose of having a surround receiver for video playback.

Peter
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post #41 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96redformula View Post

To play the same thing inside and out I would have to use 2 seperate programs, 1. being windows media player, 2. being anything else is windows.

Yup, the requirement to use 2 different programs has been repeated over and over...

Peter
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post #42 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting.

Can you use windows media player for playing audio in analog

and

Windows media center for watching video via HDMI digitally?
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post #43 of 112 Old 06-07-2010, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Interesting.

Can you use windows media player for playing audio in analog

and

Windows media center for watching video via HDMI digitally?

YES, I can confirm both Analog out via WMP works at the same time as HDMI out with Windows 7 Media Center. They each maintain their own audio stream from the respective program.
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post #44 of 112 Old 06-08-2010, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Interesting.

Can you use windows media player for playing audio in analog

and

Windows media center for watching video via HDMI digitally?

Yes, you just have to go into the WMP options and set the sound device from the default system device to the specific device you want, ie speakers in this case.

Peter
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post #45 of 112 Old 06-08-2010, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Servicetech571 View Post

Most AVR's won't send digital sources out the analog outputs.

I too USED TO BE frustrated with the limitation in Vista/Win7 of simultaneously outputting digital (e.g., HDMI or S/PDIF) and analog.

I solved the problem by upgrading my Denon AVR to an Emotiva preamp. Both the MMC-1 (S/PDIF and coax) and UMC-1 (HDMI) can take the one digital output from the HTPC and simultaneously 1) play the audio in the room with the HTPC, and 2) output analog for my multiroom audio system.

My solution required purchasing a new audio system, but the upgrade in sound quality was a great bonus. Plus, the new UMC-1 allows me to now bitstream the high quality audio tracks.
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post #46 of 112 Old 06-09-2010, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshDorhyke View Post

That didn't just work. What did you set-up to make it output audio on the HDMI and analog at the same time? No-one else can get audio on both HDMI and analog to work properly, except that other solution posted here which appears to make both output stereo at the same time and defeats the purpose of having a surround receiver for video playback.

Peter

Beyond wiring my HTPC correctly to my AVR, I haven't done anything special to output HDMI (5.1) and analog audio (stereo) at the same time. I haven't looked at historical threads about whether simultaneous audio is a software or hardware/driver issue. I'm happy to post system specs if you feel that is useful.
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post #47 of 112 Old 06-09-2010, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

Beyond wiring my HTPC correctly to my AVR, I haven't done anything special to output HDMI (5.1) and analog audio (stereo) at the same time. I haven't looked at historical threads about whether simultaneous audio is a software or hardware/driver issue. I'm happy to post system specs if you feel that is useful.

What operating system are you running?
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post #48 of 112 Old 06-09-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

Beyond wiring my HTPC correctly to my AVR, I haven't done anything special to output HDMI (5.1) and analog audio (stereo) at the same time. I haven't looked at historical threads about whether simultaneous audio is a software or hardware/driver issue. I'm happy to post system specs if you feel that is useful.

You're using Windows 7 like the origional question was discussing??

If you're using XP then your working example doesn't apply since W7 does not work the same way.

If you are using W7 then you did something odd to make it work since it does not work by default. The original poster did post a solution to output stereo to both the HDMI and analog at the same time but that's not a good solution when you want to watch media with a digital surround sound format.

It's a basic Windows Vista and Windows 7 default audio device limitation, not a hardware or driver limitation so knowing your hardware would not help.

Peter
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post #49 of 112 Old 06-09-2010, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshDorhyke View Post

You're using Windows 7 like the origional question was discussing??

Yes. Windows 7 Home Premium. 32 bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshDorhyke View Post

If you are using W7 then you did something odd to make it work since it does not work by default. The original poster did post a solution to output stereo to both the HDMI and analog at the same time but that's not a good solution when you want to watch media with a digital surround sound format.

It's a basic Windows Vista and Windows 7 default audio device limitation, not a hardware or driver limitation so knowing your hardware would not help.

I can't say that it's a vanilla W7 installation. I've installed Sharky's codec pack and installed the HD Realtek audio driver. I can get specifics on build numbers, audio config, etc later if helpful.

How can you conclude that audio drivers have no impact?
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post #50 of 112 Old 06-09-2010, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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post #51 of 112 Old 06-09-2010, 12:35 PM
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The only option that I would see could work. And I don't know if this will work. I will check once I get home. You would need to connect to the Denon with both an HDMI cable and a Mini to RCA cable so you have both analog and digital connected to the receiver. Then either you will change your default playback manually in W7 or you may be able to set a default for each program. For example WMP would use the analog two channel out while Media Center would use the digital HDMI connection. You would then only be able to play music to both zones through WMP using the analog out and watch movies through Media Center using the HDMI out.

I will check out if this will work once I am home but I know that most receivers won't be able to take a digital signal and convert it to analog for a separate zone. For music you only need two channel audio since your music has only a left and right channel. You won't get anything different by using multichannel for music unless you are listening to live DVDs that are encoded as a multichannel source. If that is the case then this won't work.

If you do use the two different cables you will have a separate source on your receiver. You would use one input for analog music and a separate source for digital movies.
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post #52 of 112 Old 06-09-2010, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthwhit View Post

The only option that I would see could work. And I don't know if this will work. I will check once I get home. You would need to connect to the Denon with both an HDMI cable and a Mini to RCA cable so you have both analog and digital connected to the receiver. Then either you will change your default playback manually in W7 or you may be able to set a default for each program. For example WMP would use the analog two channel out while Media Center would use the digital HDMI connection. You would then only be able to play music to both zones through WMP using the analog out and watch movies through Media Center using the HDMI out.

I agree. The only way this could work on Vista/7 is if the application gives you the choice of output device.
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post #53 of 112 Old 06-10-2010, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

Yes. Windows 7 Home Premium. 32 bit.

I can't say that it's a vanilla W7 installation. I've installed Sharky's codec pack and installed the HD Realtek audio driver. I can get specifics on build numbers, audio config, etc later if helpful.

How can you conclude that audio drivers have no impact?

daking,

Are you simultaneously outputting to both digital and analog with the SAME audio stream or DIFFERENT audio streams?

It is certainly possible in Vista/Win7 to simultaneously output DIFFERENT streams to multiple audio outputs if you have an application that allows you to set the output indepedent of the Windows sound control panel. For example, I use Casatunes to output audio indepedent of the Windows sounds control panel. AFAIK, there are a number of other applications that also give you this control (e.g., Winamp, and JRMC). The problem is that NONE of these applications allow you to play the SAME audio stream that is being output by the device set in the Windows sound control panel.
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post #54 of 112 Old 06-10-2010, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daking View Post

Yes. Windows 7 Home Premium. 32 bit.

I can't say that it's a vanilla W7 installation. I've installed Sharky's codec pack and installed the HD Realtek audio driver. I can get specifics on build numbers, audio config, etc later if helpful.

How can you conclude that audio drivers have no impact?

The W7 core only allows the user to select one default audio device at a time (you know, when you go to the control panel and open the sound). So, when you select say HDMI as the default audio device, any program that uses the default audio device will send the sound to the default OS device, which would be the HDMI. That why I said the drivers don't matter.

You are claiming audio on both HDMI and analog when using W7MC. W7MC uses the windows default audio device so that is why I'm very suspect of your claim. Others are too. There isn't anyone else that had made W7MC play back audio simultaneously on both HDMI and analog properly. By properly, I mean that the HDMI will receive the multi-channel or bitstreamed audio formats.

Now, having written that, W7 programs are not limited to using the OS default audio device. If a program bypasses the build-in W7 default sound device and goes directly to the hardware then it can play back on a different device than what is set in the OS settings. However, that program would have to allow the user to select 2 different audio devices at once to get sound from say HDMI and analog at the same time. If you know of such a program then post it because it could be useful to some people.

The thread starter did post the first work-around that I have seen however it doesn't work for the multi-channel audio formats. Using that "fix" the HDMI only receives stereo. Fine for music but kills the audio when using W7MC for video playback. So, there is one partial work around but it's certainly not a perfect solution or an automatic solution that just works.

So, since you are claiming W7MC outputs sound on both HDMI and analog devices simultaneously then go into your setup and figure out what makes it work. If you can not demonstrate how it works then no-one will really believe the claim.

One thing the OP should note - use say WMP set specifically to analog and the "fix" that you posted and you'll get stereo music on both HDMI and analog at the same time. Then, use say WMC or some other program to play video over HDMI and you'll get the multi-channel audio on the HDMI only. Not perfect but a close fix.

Peter
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post #55 of 112 Old 01-30-2011, 11:31 AM
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The below steps do work. However, the sound from the TV and the sound of the output are not synchronized - it's off by some milliseconds - enough for a severe echo effect.

1. Open Sound panel
2. Select Speakers as the default playback device
3. Go to the "Recording" tab
4. Right click and enable "Show Disabled Devices"
5. A recording device called "Wave Out Mix", "Mono Mix" or "Stereo Mix" (this was my case) should appear
6. Right click on the new device and click "Enable"
7. Right click on the new device and click "Set as Default Device"
8. Double click on the new device to open the Properties window
9. Go to the "Listen" tab
10. Click on the "Listen to this device" checkbox
11. Select your HDMI device from the "Playback through this device" list
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post #56 of 112 Old 02-20-2011, 06:42 PM
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Guys, I'm trying to do the same thing but on Linux (Ubuntu). Do you guys now if it's posssible? I was planning the exact same thing... Default my whole Linux system to use the Analog output so that all programs I use there sends the output to the 2nd zone and set only XBMC to use HDMI as the sound output. I didn't get my receiver + speakers yet but I do have a Creative 4.1 hooked up to my HTPC and then I can test it also... Does anyone here did it already?

thx
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post #57 of 112 Old 08-18-2011, 07:29 AM
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I've just had similar problems with Ubuntu... I've written up the steps in the update at the bottom of this article:

http://eatenbylinux.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/microsofts-audio-antaganism/
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post #58 of 112 Old 08-18-2011, 07:55 AM
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Hello.
I have a similar sistem and the solution that i found is this:

In windows, select your audio analog as your audio output.
And in your player for movies select HDMI as your output.

This works for me.
When i play any mp3, i can hear them in Zone 1 and Zone 2 simultaneous.
And when i play any movie, i have my sound via HDMI in Zone 1.
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post #59 of 112 Old 08-18-2011, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JockerBoy View Post

Hello.
I have a similar sistem and the solution that i found is this:

In windows, select your audio analog as your audio output.
And in your player for movies select HDMI as your output.

This works for me.
When i play any mp3, i can hear them in Zone 1 and Zone 2 simultaneous.
And when i play any movie, i have my sound via HDMI in Zone 1.

Yeah, you can do this with WMC and WMP as well. Pretty much the only solution I found.
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post #60 of 112 Old 08-18-2011, 01:09 PM
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You should be able to do this with zones in JRMC.

Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center
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