Nvidia GeForce GTX 460(GF104 GPU) supports full audio bitstreaming - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 01:28 PM
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I haven't tried PS so it might be possible. My guess is that if Intel could do it easily they would. The config tool offers 23 and 24 Hz modes OOTB (which is a bit disingenuous IMO), both map to 24.000Hz during playback.
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post #992 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

It's a shame, really, as it'd be a nice solution for HTPC users.

TBH I see it more as an annoyance then a huge problem.

Compared to the issues many users (including myself) have had with ATI HW and the (until very recently) lack of suitable HW from Nvidia, IMO Intel's GPU is a great option for many HTPC enthusiasts. Unfortunately no one offers the perfect solution yet.
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post #993 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

TBH I see it more as an annoyance then a huge problem.

Compared to the issues many users (including myself) have had with ATI HW and the (until very recently) lack of suitable HW from Nvidia, IMO Intel's GPU is a great option for many HTPC enthusiasts. Unfortunately no one offers the perfect solution yet.

I do have to agree with that. Every solution's got their....."unique set of challenges". The nVidia 450 is working great on my 120Hz panel. No more issues since I found that stupid setting for video. The AMD 5870 works extremely well for everything I've thrown at it, but, it's not hooked up to a 24Hz capable display, so, I've not encountered those problems. We all have to make the compromises we're willing to make in our own setup and try to get it as close to a PS3, er, I mean, perfect as we can.
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post #994 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 01:52 PM
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Well, maybe I can find a way to make 23.976 work on Intel GPUs with madVR...
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post #995 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 10:31 PM
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The most perfect sync I've gotten without using ReClock has always been with ATI cards. IIRC the 4550, 4670 and 5770 all gave me 23.976 so good that it is about an hour or more before there's a repeat/dropped frame. Not so with Nvidia, I got 23.973 and with custom res I got closer, but TMT3 and ReClock had problems with this refresh rate. Since I've settled for the Realtek driver and I have to use bitstreaming, cause using WASAPI exclusive has trouble when using ReClock and some channel settings.
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post #996 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 10:42 PM
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460 have hdmi 1.3a
According to company nvidia support -deep coloer and x.v coloer
What level 30 bit or 36 bit or 48 bit ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
According to the HDMI standard manufacturer
Note that a given product may choose to implement a subset of the given HDMI version. Certain features such as Deep Color and xvYCC support are optional

Who checks if the Connector 1.3a or 1.4a
Support -deep coloer or x.v coloer ???
Does the manufacturer like asus / gigabyte bought Connector hdmi for Their video card ???
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post #997 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 10:45 PM
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I got 36-bit deep color with the 460, and 30-bit deep color with the ATI 5770, but I don't think it makes a visible difference.
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post #998 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

I got 36-bit deep color with the 460, and 30-bit deep color with the ATI 5770, but I don't think it makes a visible difference.

how you know that you have
30-bit deep color with the ATI 5770 ?
36-bit deep color with the 460 ?

May I ask what cable you have a full model?
Full model TV?
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post #999 of 1812 Old 11-06-2010, 11:49 PM
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I don't know what you mean by "cable", but my monitor (Pioneer KRP-500) lets me know the color bit depth of the HDMI input.
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post #1000 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

I don't know what you mean by "cable", but my monitor (Pioneer KRP-500) lets me know the color bit depth of the HDMI input.

Name of of cable model like:
cable: HDMI TO HDMI
manufacturer: "alton"
Model: XXI 65
If there is a link

your Pioneer KRP-500 don't x.v coloer or deep coloer at all !
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/a...00A/index.html

Pioneer does not support at all in x.v coloer or deep coloer .
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post #1001 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 04:09 AM
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Yes it does, up to 36-bit.

From the manual (pdf):



Also, the monitor tells me what bit depth it's getting on the HDMI inputs, as I said above.

And cable doesn't make a difference. I'm using HDMI cables from Blue Jeans cable anyway. I don't think there's such thing as cables that are deep color-enabled. Sounds more like typical cable snake oil, same as "HDMI 1.3 cables".
LL
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post #1002 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 04:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

Well, maybe I can find a way to make 23.976 work on Intel GPUs with madVR...

I've heard that they are working on a solution for SandyBridge, hopefully whatever they come up with is backwards compatible with Clarkdale.
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post #1003 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Yes it does, up to 36-bit.

From the manual (pdf):



Also, the monitor tells me what bit depth it's getting on the HDMI inputs, as I said above.

And cable doesn't make a difference. I'm using HDMI cables from Blue Jeans cable anyway. I don't think there's such thing as cables that are deep color-enabled. Sounds more like typical cable snake oil, same as "HDMI 1.3 cables".

Do not understand what does the part
What is the connection to your TV
What is the connection to the part

Manufacturer Pioneer Do not write that supports deep color .
You have proof on their site? Or online?
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/a...00A/index.html

Quote:


cable doesn't make a difference

Again you are wrong and misleading
The cable must be supported protocol DEEP COLOER and x, coloer
Note that every time you refuse to say what cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
Quote:
Note that a given product may choose to implement a subset of the given HDMI version. Certain features such as Deep Color and xvYCC support are optional

You do not have cable and you have tv Supporter deep coloer
Quote:


I don't think there's such thing as cables that are deep color-enabled

Now you learn that WE HAVE special cable to deep color ( and for 30 0r 36 or 48 bit )
Quote:


I got 36-bit deep color with the 460, and 30-bit deep color with the ATI 5770, but I don't think it makes a visible difference.

Why are you Making false stories
How do you measured 30 or 36 bit
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post #1004 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepdeep1 View Post

Again you are wrong and misleading

The cable must be supported protocol DEEP COLOER and x, coloer
Note that every time you refuse to say what cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
Quote:
Note that a given product may choose to implement a subset of the given HDMI version. Certain features such as Deep Color and xvYCC support are optional

You do not have cable and you have tv Supporter deep coloer

Now you learn that WE HAVE special cable to deep color (and for 30 or 36 or 48 bit )

There are only two types of HDMI cables (Wiki: HDMI: Cables):

- Category 1 = "Standard": up to 74.5MHz
- Categroy 2 = "High Speed": up to 340MHz.

Every "High Speed" HDMI cable supports Deep Color (= color depth greater than 24 bit) as well as HDMI 1.4a 3D video formats. For a HDMI cable, it is only the clock rate that matters. There is no such a cable that understands Deep Color *protocol* or Frame packing 3D video *format*.

For example, the clock rate of 1920x1080p@24Hz with 24 bit color is

(1920+830 [Hblank] x (1080+45 [Vblank]) x 24Hz =

74.25MHz For Deep Color, the TMDS clock rate is increased by the ratio:

- 30 bit mode: 1.25
- 36 bit mode: 1.5
- 48 bit mode: 2.0

Thus the clock rate of 1920x1080p@24Hz with 36 bit color is

74.25MHz x 1.5 =

111.375MHz A "High Speed" cable (designed to support up to 340MHz) supports it easily. A "Standard" cable may support it (supporting over 74.5MHz is not banned ).
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post #1005 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepdeep1 View Post

Do not understand what does the part
What is the connection to your TV
What is the connection to the part

Manufacturer Pioneer Do not write that supports deep color .
You have proof on their site? Or online?
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/a...00A/index.html


Again you are wrong and misleading
The cable must be supported protocol DEEP COLOER and x, coloer
Note that every time you refuse to say what cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
Quote:
Note that a given product may choose to implement a subset of the given HDMI version. Certain features such as Deep Color and xvYCC support are optional

You do not have cable and you have tv Supporter deep coloer

Now you learn that WE HAVE special cable to deep color ( and for 30 0r 36 or 48 bit )

Why are you Making false stories
How do you measured 30 or 36 bit

I have no reason to lie. I'm the one who's saying there's no visible difference. I don't really, for the moment, give a frak about Deep Color, at least until it's proven that it makes a difference with actual hardware.

What renethx posted above covers the cable issue, but I'm also telling you, the Pioneer says in its display if it's getting 24, 30, or 36-bit input. Also, I linked to the online manual of my monitor from the Pioneer website. I'm using a "high-speed" HDMI cable, or "category 2" as indicated in renethx's post above. This is a good read on "spec'd" versions of cables (they're misleading).

Also, even "standard speed" cables may pass full deep color and full 1080p video provided they're short enough. Basically at cable lengths usually used (10 ft or less) you'll probably not need to worry about cable speed.
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post #1006 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 06:04 AM
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Oh, and the reason I didn't mention the exact cable model (besides that it doesn't matter!) is that who remembers what cable model they bought? I don't. I do know I'm using one of the 10-ft Belden versions and one of the Tartan versions (6 ft) from here.
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post #1007 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 09:36 PM
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Does anyone know if nVidia has any plans to update the audio drivers for this card?

I'm a novice, and have not delved into much beyond the basics, but it seems that this card does not play nice with Windows 7 Pro 64 bit audio.

Very spotty and uneven audio performance.
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post #1008 of 1812 Old 11-07-2010, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrebleClef View Post

Does anyone know if nVidia has any plans to update the audio drivers for this card?

I'm a novice, and have not delved into much beyond the basics, but it seems that this card does not play nice with Windows 7 Pro 64 bit audio.

Very spotty and uneven audio performance.

All my boxes are running Win7 Pro x64, and i have no issues whatsoever with audio performance. (GTS450 and GTX460)
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post #1009 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 12:14 AM
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There are only two types of HDMI cables (Wiki: HDMI: Cables):

- Category 1 = "Standard": up to 74.5MHz
- Categroy 2 = "High Speed": up to 340MHz.

You're wrong hdmi 1.3 hdmi 1.4 contains many parameters
Each manufacturer is doing what he feels

Write clearly:
The cable must be supported protocol DEEP COLOER and x, coloer
Note that every time you refuse to say what cable
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
Quote:
Note that a given product may choose to implement a subset of the given HDMI version. Certain features such as Deep Color and xvYCC support are optional
do You know what is optional ???
Manufacturer can support or not support the protocol

Quote:


Maximum clock rate (MHz)

:
Only concerns the power of cable
Nothing to do with the rest of the parameters
like :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Version_1.4
Version comparison

for the understanding bring image as here:
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7157/79567251.png

Quote:


Every "High Speed" HDMI cable supports Deep Color (= color depth greater than 24 bit)

Again you are wrong almost all the cables do not support on deep coloer
Should ask each vendor if support - DEEP COLOER and how many bit ???
LIKE :
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=4314

Quote:


There is no such a cable that understands Deep Color *protocol* or Frame packing 3D video *format*.

For example, the clock rate of 1920x1080p@24Hz with 24 bit color is

(1920+830 [Hblank] x (1080+45 [Vblank]) x 24Hz = 74.25MHz
For Deep Color, the TMDS clock rate is increased by the ratio:

- 30 bit mode: 1.25
- 36 bit mode: 1.5
- 48 bit mode: 2.0

Thus the clock rate of 1920x1080p@24Hz with 36 bit color is

74.25MHz x 1.5 = 111.375MHz

God help us
Please stop writing about Things you do not understand
What is the connection speed and range of colors ???
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post #1010 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 12:18 AM
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Quote:


I have no reason to lie. I'm the one who's saying there's no visible difference. I don't really, for the moment, give a frak about Deep Color, at least until it's proven that it makes a difference with actual hardware.

What renethx posted above covers the cable issue, but I'm also telling you, the Pioneer says in its display if it's getting 24, 30, or 36-bit input. Also, I linked to the online manual of my monitor from the Pioneer website. I'm using a "high-speed" HDMI cable, or "category 2" as indicated in renethx's post above. This is a good read on "spec'd" versions of cables (they're misleading).

Also, even "standard speed" cables may pass full deep color and full 1080p video provided they're short enough. Basically at cable lengths usually used (10 ft or less) you'll probably not need to worry about cable speed.

I wrote to you answers and you repeat the wrong things
You're not answering my questions
And you tell stories without proof
Pioneer site does not say your TV supports on deep coloer and you say yes
You do not write the cable model ???
You write nvidia card have 36 bit deep coloer But you do not know how you got that number ???
you can show your driver's image like here :
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7157/79567251.png
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post #1011 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 12:54 AM
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This is hilarious.

Cables are passive elements. They don't care what data goes through them, so they don't have to support one specific feature. Like others said before, the only difference in HDMI cables is the max officially supported frequency, and there is a spec that outlines two classes of cables there.

Cable Vendors will always throw you PR BS about supporting all these nice features. There has to be some reason to buy the $100 cable, in contrast to the $10 cable, right? right?

Wrong. There is not.
The only difference is the bandwidth. Not any individual features.
You quote "optional" features. Yes, optional. For the TV, or the AVR, but the cable just does not care.

You quote the HDMI Wikipedia page there, which is about HDMI as a whole, not about freaking cables.
As you can see on that wikipedia page, the maximum frequency for HDMI 1.4 is still 340 MHz, which is already the spec for HDMI "High Speed" cables.

Just cut it out.
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post #1012 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepdeep1 View Post

I wrote to you answers and you repeat the wrong things
You're not answering my questions
And you tell stories without proof
Pioneer site does not say your TV supports on deep coloer and you say yes
You do not write the cable model ???
You write nvidia card have 36 bit deep coloer But you do not know how you got that number ???
you can show your driver's image like here :
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7157/79567251.png

Chill out man...

I have a pioneer LX5090 and I dont care if it supports deep color or not.. It is a gimmick and who cares about it..! When I connect my GTX460 and send 1080p res my Kuro says 36 Bit color.. and my cable is monoprice..

and for the love of god it is color or colour but its not coloer..
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post #1013 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepdeep1 View Post

Pioneer site does not say your TV supports on deep coloer and you say yes
You do not write the cable model ???
You write nvidia card have 36 bit deep coloer But you do not know how you got that number ???

Holy hell man! Pioneer does support 36 bit. It does on my LX6090 and it clearly shows it when the AV input changes, in clear letters 36 BIT.

Seriously. AVS is a place where you go to learn to be unhappy. - Bear5k
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post #1014 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepdeep1 View Post

Manufacturer Pioneer Do not write that supports deep color .
You have proof on their site? Or online?
http://www.pioneer.eu/eur/products/archive/KRP-500A/index.html

On the specifications page of that model's manual, there is a footnote (#1) next to all HDMI connections. Footnote #1 states (emphasis is mine):

Quote:



This conforms to HDMI 1.3 (Deep Colour) and HDCP1.1. HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) is a digital interface that handles
both video and audio using a single cable. HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) is a technology used to protect copyrighted
digital contents that use the Digital Visual Interface (DVI).

And please don't make statements like this after quoting MonsterCable:

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepdeep1 View Post

Please stop writing about Things you do not understand

MonsterCables are a complete scam.
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post #1015 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepdeep1 View Post

I wrote to you answers and you repeat the wrong things
You're not answering my questions
And you tell stories without proof
Pioneer site does not say your TV supports on deep coloer and you say yes
You do not write the cable model ???
You write nvidia card have 36 bit deep coloer But you do not know how you got that number ???
you can show your driver's image like here :
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7157/79567251.png

What in the world do you want? I already told you which monitor and cables I am using. This screenshot I posted before:



is from the manual at the Pioneer website. (Those big words are hyperlinks. Click on them please!)

It is also funny that you're quoting your cable information from the Monster Cable site.

After all this, I don't know what you're after. You asked if these cards output deep color, but you apparently are hellbent on not believing it.

And again, it doesn't make a visible difference, at least with current software/drivers.
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post #1016 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 02:00 AM
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Or maybe what you want is to see that option in the drivers, like your screenshot? There's nothing there. There are no options for turning off/on deep color in either the ATI or the Nvidia cards. We know because:

1) Our monitors are telling us what they're receiving.

2) (At least with ATI) Deep color is on their specs page.
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post #1017 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

All my boxes are running Win7 Pro x64, and i have no issues whatsoever with audio performance. (GTS450 and GTX460)

You are able to configure this card for 7 speaker output under Windows Control Panel and get all the test tones from each speaker, and experience no cutouts in sound, usually when switching between source material? My Emotiva UMC-1 intermittently will report "no audio signal" when a new source is selected.

I also am consistently getting high pitched HDD write noises through my speakers.

Additionally, in playing mkvs through MPC HC I only sometimes get multichannel sound.

I tried multichannel pure audio, but discovered that it seemed each type of source file required a different software approach.
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post #1018 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 05:42 AM
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Um.....hmmm. What an awesome discussion you guys have here. cough cough. I'm not a believer in the "magic" of monster cables, either. While in analog days it used to be true there was SOME benefit from a better quality cable, for HDMI, *WHERE IT IS DIGITAL* you're just passing bits around. As long as the cable isn't too long, there is no difference at all between a cheap cable and an expensive one. As for the HDMI 1.3/1.4 debate, the last I knew there was a potential difference in those cables. That's right, if you want to add an ethernet connection I believe you need to have an HDMI 1.4 cable...and one that supports that option. That's about it afaik. I'm using my old monoprice 1.3 cables with my 450 attached to the Pio 820-k and I don't seem to have any issues. The whole deep color issue...I'm staying out of that one. It's far too subjective IMO.
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post #1019 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrebleClef View Post

You are able to configure this card for 7 speaker output under Windows Control Panel and get all the test tones from each speaker, and experience no cutouts in sound, usually when switching between source material? My Emotiva UMC-1 intermittently will report "no audio signal" when a new source is selected.

I also am consistently getting high pitched HDD write noises through my speakers.

Additionally, in playing mkvs through MPC HC I only sometimes get multichannel sound.

I tried multichannel pure audio, but discovered that it seemed each type of source file required a different software approach.

You're explaining different issues here. The first is the annoying as hell silent stream bug. This does in fact plague the nVidia cards. AMD finally fixed it in their latest drivers, but, nVidia hasn't.

The high pitched HDD noise through the speakers honestly sounds to me like a bad grounding issue. That's something you need to look into within your machine/setup.
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post #1020 of 1812 Old 11-08-2010, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Um.....hmmm. What an awesome discussion you guys have here. cough cough. I'm not a believer in the "magic" of monster cables, either. While in analog days it used to be true there was SOME benefit from a better quality cable, for HDMI, *WHERE IT IS DIGITAL* you're just passing bits around. As long as the cable isn't too long, there is no difference at all between a cheap cable and an expensive one. As for the HDMI 1.3/1.4 debate, the last I knew there was a potential difference in those cables. That's right, if you want to add an ethernet connection I believe you need to have an HDMI 1.4 cable...and one that supports that option. That's about it afaik. I'm using my old monoprice 1.3 cables with my 450 attached to the Pio 820-k and I don't seem to have any issues. The whole deep color issue...I'm staying out of that one. It's far too subjective IMO.

Well we were not debating whether deep color makes a visible difference, just if these cards (and oddly enough, my own TV and cables) support it, which is pretty much objective. I'm the only one who commented on it making a visible difference, so it's kind of a one-sided "argument". I'm not discounting it could though, but I haven't seen anything definitive, that's why I mentioned "with current software/drivers". I'm interested in what madVR could do with it if it could tap into it, but madshi himself seemed skeptical that something could be done at least for now (I asked him).

Regarding so-called HDMI 1.4 cables, this is a good explanation. It covers what renethx said above, and also the ethernet issue. Basically, an ethernet-enabled cable is "ethernet-enabled", not "HDMI 1.4". Even discounting the fact that they apparently can't legally advertise "HDMI 1.4" cables, if you see a "HDMI 1.4" cable, it doesn't mean it has ethernet, and it probably doesn't.
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