Nvidia GeForce GTX 460(GF104 GPU) supports full audio bitstreaming - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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Home Theater Computers > Nvidia GeForce GTX 460(GF104 GPU) supports full audio bitstreaming
HDGT's Avatar HDGT 04:26 AM 01-04-2011

SamuriHL's Avatar SamuriHL 06:25 AM 01-04-2011
Nice. I guess I'll give that a try when I get home. Thanks!
balky's Avatar balky 07:28 AM 01-04-2011

Didn't you call them BETA...

Sticking with my current 260.99 drivers...

Since upgrading my system last November with a GTX460 for 3D, I've had zero issues till now...

Man... it ain't broken an' I ain't...
Axel's Avatar Axel 09:54 AM 01-04-2011
I hope the new drivers will fix the HDCP issues I still keep having. I had read that getting HDCP right was one of the main reasons for delaying the release.

____
Axel
Nevcairiel's Avatar Nevcairiel 12:17 AM 01-05-2011
These work perfectly on my gaming rig, fixed some DX11 issues i had with the previous release.
Going to throw them on the HTPC this evening, even though i didnt have any issues with 260.99 short of the silent stream thing, which personally doesn't bother me much (barely a second missing audio when starting video? Its silent most of the time anyway :P)
nightfly85's Avatar nightfly85 12:42 AM 01-05-2011
I played with the 1.1.13.1 Hdmi driver and there's no improvements there.

I also re-installed my GT 220 only to discover that even running the zonar audio setup, it still suffers from the LPCM 5.1 on a 7.1 speaker setup issue...argh. So it would seem that the Nvidia HDMI driver is in the loop for audio regardless if the output device is an entirely different device.

Another way to test for this issue is to configure the Nvidia HDAudio Playback Device in Windows. When selecting a 5.1 setup, you'll see that it instead of side surround speakers, it'll show back speakers - this is clearly wrong. Reading bagvants review of the new SandyBridge CPUs - they suffer from the same issue.

What's more interesting is that I started testing numerous HDMI drivers versions from Nvidia going back to the 1.0.0.41 mobile version where they fixed the nastly rear/side channel swap issue that affected all audio formats and in each one, 5.1 on a 7.1 setup suffers the same issue . thus I have not much hope of this ever being fixed. I went ahead and submitted an issue to Nvidia though.

The interesting thing I found was a version of the Nvidia HDMI driver that allowed me to bitstream DD/DTS while I have the Windows pb device set to the Zonar Speakers output. Thus I can leave the playback device set to zonar speakers for all formats - sweet. At least all my testing wasn't for naught.

Why use the Zonar over the Nvidia now? Really only one reason that I know of, and it's not that big of deal to me and that's the silent stream issue. In addition, I can use the sp-dif pb device that will allow my AVR to use its various surround field formats - most of which aren't available on LPCM/PCM tracks.

Lastly, I ended up going with the OEM video drivers for video playback v260.63. They don't suffer from any multi monitor issues and provide good colors and video playback and don't suffer from the 59Hz issue.

I use MPC-HC with ffdshow-tryouts for bitstreaming. They have a feature that allows one to "swap channels" for decocded audio - which in my setup is only LPCM. So having ffdshow swap the rears to the sides fixes the Nvidia issue, but would obviously break 7.1 LPCM playback. I am going to see if I can add a rule feature to ffdshow that will work something like:

If decoded audio = 6 channels, then apply swap settings.

Then I can live with the Nvidia issue...damn them.
SamuriHL's Avatar SamuriHL 06:39 AM 01-05-2011
The new driver kicks booty for me. What's very very odd, however, is that I use AnyDVD's setdisplay util to set the refresh rate either by hand or when I insert a disc. Setting it to 24 would introduce some serious stutter in the video. Setting it to 23 broke the nVidia control panel for me in the previous driver. (Mainly cause I had left it on the screen res page and it'd crash as soon as I opened it) 23 was great with smooth video, but, the audio would drift out of sync. I couldn't win. With this new driver, 24 no longer stutters all that much, but, the interesting part is that 23 seems "supported" in the nVidia control panel now. When I first opened it up, I was set to 23 and it showed that instead of crashing. Very nice. Overall this seems like a better driver to me for various reasons. I have not yet checked my interlaced content to see if that bug is fixed, but, everything else is rocking beautifully now. I can finally get back to playing BD's on that machine in 24.
babgvant's Avatar babgvant 08:01 AM 01-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

When selecting a 5.1 setup, you'll see that it instead of side surround speakers, it'll show back speakers - this is clearly wrong. Reading bagvants review of the new SandyBridge CPUs - they suffer from the same issue.

On both systems channels mapped properly when selecting 5.1. The graphic is confusing, on the SNB system it actually has both 5.1 options even though they behave the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

I use MPC-HC with ffdshow-tryouts for bitstreaming. They have a feature that allows one to "swap channels" for decocded audio - which in my setup is only LPCM. So having ffdshow swap the rears to the sides fixes the Nvidia issue, but would obviously break 7.1 LPCM playback. I am going to see if I can add a rule feature to ffdshow that will work something like:

Why not use reclock to set the proper channel count?
mcantu1's Avatar mcantu1 01:33 PM 01-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post
The new driver kicks booty for me. What's very very odd, however, is that I use AnyDVD's setdisplay util to set the refresh rate either by hand or when I insert a disc. Setting it to 24 would introduce some serious stutter in the video. Setting it to 23 broke the nVidia control panel for me in the previous driver. (Mainly cause I had left it on the screen res page and it'd crash as soon as I opened it) 23 was great with smooth video, but, the audio would drift out of sync. I couldn't win. With this new driver, 24 no longer stutters all that much, but, the interesting part is that 23 seems "supported" in the nVidia control panel now. When I first opened it up, I was set to 23 and it showed that instead of crashing. Very nice. Overall this seems like a better driver to me for various reasons. I have not yet checked my interlaced content to see if that bug is fixed, but, everything else is rocking beautifully now. I can finally get back to playing BD's on that machine in 24.
23 doesnt show for with w/new drivers. i added it manually but the setting doesnt hold and it reverts to 24
SamuriHL's Avatar SamuriHL 01:38 PM 01-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post
23 doesnt show for with w/new drivers. i added it manually but the setting doesnt hold and it reverts to 24
I suppose it could have been a fluke on my system since I had it set to 23 when I installed the driver. I was just happy it didn't crash! I didn't go back and look if I could select 23 in the control panel. In any case, I'm perfectly content to set it manually when watching MKV's and automagically when inserting discs. Of course, the best solution would be for the player to do it properly, but, so far, nada on that one.
skepticon's Avatar skepticon 03:08 PM 01-05-2011
Doing some audio upgrades this week, and need to make sure this will fly:

I do a lot of gaming on my HTPC, and have a 580 GTX to handle graphics.
I got a new Onkyo 7.1 receiver and want to bitstream HD audio formats. I plan to install a GT 430 and connect it to the reciever via HDMI for audio only, and leave the 580 GTX connected directly to the display via DVI>HDMI. I don't anticipate any problems, but I'm not sure if doing this might cause any sync issues between audio and video. Any thoughts? Problems I didn't think of?

P.S. F#$% Nvidia for not implimenting bitstreaming in their new "flagship" product. Can't believe I have to by another $70 graphics card just to send out an audio signal...
Axel's Avatar Axel 03:08 PM 01-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post
I hope the new drivers will fix the HDCP issues I still keep having. I had read that getting HDCP right was one of the main reasons for delaying the release.

____
Axel
I am still experiencing severe handshake issues with the latest drivers. The signal drops out every few moments. However, this seems to be limited to my DVDO Duo (with 2.3 f/w). If I connect the HTPC directly to my Denon AVR4308 the connection has been robust thus far. Anybody else experience this and/or has some ideas on how to fix it?

Thanks!
____
Axel
chris89's Avatar chris89 04:12 PM 01-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post

I am still experiencing severe handshake issues with the latest drivers. The signal drops out every few moments. However, this seems to be limited to my DVDO Duo (with 2.3 f/w). If I connect the HTPC directly to my Denon AVR4308 the connection has been robust thus far. Anybody else experience this and/or has some ideas on how to fix it?

Thanks!
____
Axel

I'm using a GTX 470 with the 260.99 drivers. I'm using a male hdmi mini to female hdmi standard adapter cable. I then have a standard hdmi cable running the adapter cable to the HDMI input on my Pioneer VSX-520k Receiver. Then I have another standard hdmi cable running from the receiver to my Samsung LN40B500 HDMI input. The audio properties in windows 7 detects my receiver but in the specifications it only see's what formats my TV supports and not what my receiver supports. Therefore i get sound only from my TV. How do I fix this?



THANKS
Tulli's Avatar Tulli 04:34 PM 01-05-2011
That probably means you have your Pioneer HDMI set to repeat the TV EDID audio specs. Disable it (don't know the specific option for the Pioneer, it's "AMP" on my Denon).
chris89's Avatar chris89 05:43 PM 01-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulli View Post

That probably means you have your Pioneer HDMI set to repeat the TV EDID audio specs. Disable it (don't know the specific option for the Pioneer, it's "AMP" on my Denon).

Yep, it works great now!!!! Thanks. It's called HDMIThru or HDMIAmp. So how do i set it to 192khz/24bit? Does that only work in PCM mode? What's Dolby Digital Plus? Under advanced options I set the format to 192khz 24bit. It says it uses it in shared mode. What's that all about?

thanks
carageuw's Avatar carageuw 07:18 PM 01-05-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by skepticon View Post

Doing some audio upgrades this week, and need to make sure this will fly:

I do a lot of gaming on my HTPC, and have a 580 GTX to handle graphics.
I got a new Onkyo 7.1 receiver and want to bitstream HD audio formats. I plan to install a GT 430 and connect it to the reciever via HDMI for audio only, and leave the 580 GTX connected directly to the display via DVI>HDMI. I don't anticipate any problems, but I'm not sure if doing this might cause any sync issues between audio and video. Any thoughts? Problems I didn't think of?

P.S. F#$% Nvidia for not implimenting bitstreaming in their new "flagship" product. Can't believe I have to by another $70 graphics card just to send out an audio signal...

It's definitely not the first time nVidia has messed up multimedia support on their flagship products. They cater to games and now CUDA too much.
Nevcairiel's Avatar Nevcairiel 12:00 AM 01-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by carageuw View Post

It's definitely not the first time nVidia has messed up multimedia support on their flagship products. They cater to games and now CUDA too much.

They didn't mess up, they deliberately choose not to implement it, to keep the changes from the 480 chip to the 580 to a minimum to not cause any additional issues. And seriously, who pays 500 USD for a HTPC card? :P

On the question at hand:
I'm not sure if it will work. Some receivers don't like getting audio-only over HDMI, they require a video signal (at least for bit-streaming). Not sure if the NVIDIA card will even like outputting audio only, i know the ASUS Xonar doesn't do it, it requires video to go with it, for example.

Also, the obsession with bitstreaming is funny. Output uncompressed LPCM, there is no disadvantage when using a player with the proper codecs. Hell, with ReClock its even better!
carageuw's Avatar carageuw 12:16 AM 01-06-2011
I agree probably NO ONE in the world would pay $500 to buy a videocard just for HTPC purposes. But there isn't a convincing argument explaining why the flagship product SHOULD NOT include a simple feature implemented across its own midrange and lower products.

Try explain that, any nVidia reps around here?
hamish b's Avatar hamish b 12:59 AM 01-06-2011
Ive also found the 266.53 drivers break something with custom resolutions
You can create them, test them and get them in the the list but when you try change the resolution it does nothing.
They just stay at the current one
eg. if im running 1080p and want to go back to created res, nothing happens

went back to 258 drivers, all is normal
Nevcairiel's Avatar Nevcairiel 02:14 AM 01-06-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by carageuw View Post

I agree probably NO ONE in the world would pay $500 to buy a videocard just for HTPC purposes. But there isn't a convincing argument explaining why the flagship product SHOULD NOT include a simple feature implemented across its own midrange and lower products.

Try explain that, any nVidia reps around here?

Like i mentioned in my previous post:

The 580 is based on the 480 silicon, which does not include this feature. When developing the 580, they tried to keep the changes to a minimum to get the card out sooner, and implementing the new silicon for the bitstreaming part was left out for this reasons. (And i won't even speculate on "simple")

I read this somewhere that looked official, i don't have a source at hand right now, but if i find it again i'll let you know.

In any case, i hope the 560 will support it again, and any new generation of chips will then as well.
nightfly85's Avatar nightfly85 10:43 PM 01-06-2011
thanks to doom9 guys, if you're using ffdshow for bitstreaming....there's any easy solution to the Nvidia side/rear swap issue for 7.1 Speaker setups and playing 5.1 LPCM content.

You can create a 'Preset', enable "automatic preset loading" and define a new preset called "LPCM 6 Channel" (of course, this can be called anything).

With that preset created and selected, go the swap channel feature/option and set the rears l/r to the side l/r.

Set a condition on your new preset by clicking the "Preset autoload conditions..." and set the decoder field to "raw LPCM" and the channel field to 6; and lastly set the "all conditions match" option to AND. Save your changes and then reselect the "default" preset. ffdshow will then autoselect your new preset when it sees a 6 channel LPCM track and use the default (bitstreaming - non swap channel) preset when not. To confirm the preset in use, right click the ffdshow filter cp in the system tray where you'll see your defined presets listed and the current in-use one selected.

Works like a charm.


rinorho's Avatar rinorho 04:18 AM 01-07-2011
It's simply ridiculous that NVIDIA not yet resolved the black screen problems with new drivers!

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=181468

bye
12volt's Avatar 12volt 03:09 PM 01-11-2011
Hello everyone,

I just received my gtx460 today! I will be installing into a win7_64 HTPC that I will build afterwork tonight. It will be a fresh install. Im am planning on using what HW I already have basically around the GTX460 with bit-streaming. I am amazed at the complexity of all the many choices and user preferences. Seriously so many hours (or days) on just reading everyone's setups and whatnot. So is there a common set up amongst you HTPC users established already? What is the MUST HAVE software as a place to base my first PC BU image on?? I am thrilled to be here on AVS and cant wait to use my HTPC instead of my PS3 only.

Thanks!
renethx's Avatar renethx 09:22 PM 01-14-2011
Its gaming performance is surprisingly good, about 25% better than GTX 460, close to HD 6950.

There is also GTX 560 non-Ti. GTX 550/550 Ti, a successor to GTS 450, will come soon.
LL
mcantu1's Avatar mcantu1 10:02 PM 01-14-2011
any pricing info yet on the gtx560?
carageuw's Avatar carageuw 11:46 AM 01-16-2011
I just noticed this on Windows 7 Service Pack 1's features:
Improved HDMI audio device performance:
ยท A small percentage of users have reported issues in which the connection between computers running Windows 7 and HDMI audio devices can be lost after system reboots. Updates have been incorporated into SP1 to ensure that connections between Windows 7 computers and HDMI audio devices are consistently maintained.

Hmmm...Could our problems have something to do with this as well?
carageuw's Avatar carageuw 04:28 PM 01-17-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post
any pricing info yet on the gtx560?
Heard there will be factory OC'd versions selling at around $300.
So the normal reference card version can probably be had for $280 or lower.
There are also rumors of a 2GB version coming down the line a bit later.
carageuw's Avatar carageuw 04:32 PM 01-17-2011
Unfortunately, the "silent stream bug" is back for me.
I am not sure whether this is a result of uninstalling Windows SP1 RC and installing the supposed SP1 RTM or swapping nVidia drivers or something wrong with my new Onkyo SR-608 settings or a combination of all or any of these.
galneon's Avatar galneon 08:27 PM 01-17-2011
I'm currently using an ATI 5850, the first time I've had a non-nvidia card since 1999. After moving to a full HDMI setup, I deeply regret it. RGB/YCC 4:4:4 pixel sampling via HDMI is completely broken and has been since 2009 in ATI's drivers. Regardless of driver setting, when outputting HDMI audio along with video, I can only send subsampled YCC 4:2:2 or RGB 4:2:2 to my 4:4:4 display. I'm probably about to sell the card if nvidia offers a solution.

Does the GTX 460 (and beyond) support Full RGB and YCC 4:4:4 via the mini-HDMI out when streaming audio? I'd be happy with just Full RGB at this point.

My picture quality is absolute crap after switching to the HDMI port of my 5850, but I must use it in order to get 8-channel PCM
babgvant's Avatar babgvant 08:43 PM 01-17-2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by galneon View Post

I can only send subsampled YCC 4:2:2 or RGB 4:2:2 to my 4:4:4 display. I'm probably about to sell the card if nvidia offers a solution.

Almost all video is stored as 4:2:0, so even YCbCr 4:2:2 is upsampled to some degree. Also, pretty sure that RGB 4:2:2 doesn't exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by galneon View Post

Does the GTX 460 (and beyond) support Full RGB and YCC 4:4:4 via the mini-HDMI out when streaming audio? I'd be happy with just Full RGB at this point.

460/450/430 all support YCbCr 4:4:4 and RGB 4:4:4 with multi-channel LPCM/HD bit streamed audio. The 470/480 only support LCPM.
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