The best method to store ripped dvd/bluray - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I can't find a great place talking about how to store and backup your rips. I would like to start this thread to have a discussion about the pros and cons of the ways to do this. Below is what I have found as good possibilities.

Hardware RAID
Expensive
Easier to use

UnRAID
Easy to use
Needs dedicated server

FlexRAID
Software raid
Very flexible

Windows Home Server
1:1 backup



I have leaned towards FlexRAID but it offers very little info for new users to get it running. I dont like UnRAID because I would like to use my server as a ripping computer as well. Hardware RAID is just too expensive that I have found. I dont know enough about WHS except you need a 1:1 backup system which I dont prefer.

The experience and guidance can help me and many others decide what will work best for them

Now for my setup. I have a NORCO case that will house over 20tb of storage for my dvd and bluray rips. I would also like to use it for time machine for my laptops and also to backup my photos/home movies. I would also like to set it up as an iTunes server for all my computers. My HTPC is using W7 but I plan to play all my rips through a streamer unless something comes out where I can use my Control4 system to run Windows Media Center.

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post #2 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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86 views and no replies. Can you please just let me know how you store your rips and keep them backed up. Maybe most of the people on here dont back them up?

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post #3 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 01:40 PM
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My backups are the physical disks....The rips are stored on a desktop (ripper/media server) and are streamed to the HTPC.
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post #4 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 01:46 PM
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Same here. My backups are the ORIGINAL DISCS. Don't need any more redundancy than that.

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #5 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Same here. My backups are the ORIGINAL DISCS. Don't need any more redundancy than that.

+1

No back up here, just simple NTFS volumes. Media Browser does all the drive pooling. BTW where in North East Indiana?....I'm near Elkhart...If you want to see a server setup in action let me know.

Edit: Looks like you have a nice setup there.


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post #6 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 02:12 PM
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I actually do a manual 1:1 backup using an external HD dock. Why? Because I can disconnect the drives and put them in storage. Otherwise you risk a lightning strike, etc... blowing out everything. More trouble, but I just do a manual sync every couple of months.

In regards to physical media, there's no way I'd want to re-rip dozens of disks again. Just rip-em and never use them again.
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post #7 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 02:27 PM
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The truth is there is no good solution. They will all tell you none of those solutions are a true backup because they can all fail. I have been having some issues with hardware raid and I am unsure if I even want to use it anymore. Flexraid has some benefits in that if you lose a drive beyond your parity then you only lose that drives worth of data unlike hardware raid where you would lose it all.

If you dont want the added cost then you just go flexraid and hopefully the creator gets back to work on it or is busy developing it further but it will work fine as it is for now.

Hardware raid has a bonus of very fast speeds so if you are serving a lot of stuff it has that going for it although you probably dont need it to be that fast as flexraid is probably fine on its own. But any of these have a potential for data loss.

Personally I would probably build another hardware raid server and have the same set of data on both thus ensuring in all likelihood the data would be safe. Although I might go the cheaper route and build a rather large flexraid server as the backup and then keep building up from there adding drives to both as I need more space.
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post #8 of 42 Old 08-08-2010, 02:32 PM
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I use WHS because I like the auto ripping function of mymovies......
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post #9 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Mike, I'm in Fort Wayne

My concern with just having the disks is that if it goes out I have to re rip every disk on that one or how ever many go out.

A manual 1:1 on external seems safe but then I would need to buy more than 10 1.5tb drives to do so which would cost some big bucks.

On WHS. That is an OS right? So I would need to replace the W7 with WHS?

Why does this need to be so hard? Jeesh.

Back in January it seemed that the FlexRAID was the obvious choice but I'm concerned that there is no activity from the maker and on the forums. Now I'm just thinking I should just play with fire and if I lose a drive just re rip them. I may have enough drives right now to do a 1:1 backup rip but I got extra for future expansion as my library expands weekly.

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post #10 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 05:20 AM
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A poor man's way is to get an eSATA card ($25-30 for a basic model with 2 eSATA ports) and individual external enclosures for your hard drives ($25-30 each for a basic one). Depending on how many drives you get, then you just have to remember what you put where.

Bazinga!

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post #11 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Not to sound stupid but what I think your saying is to add the eSATA card and then have a seperate enclosure do the backups. Which right now would mean 10 1.5tb drives. I now they make bays that house 6 drives. Is this what your referring to? If I did do that how do I set it up to back up the drives?

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post #12 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 07:17 AM
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I rip my Blu-Rays and DVDs on a dedicated PC and then transfer them over to an unRAID server. I didn't put in my 2 cents because you already dismissed unRAID (a huge mistake, IMHO). FWIW, you can put together a basic unRAID setup pretty cheap and then expand it as your budget permits. You don't need anything more than a budget motherboard with onboard video, a low-powered CPU, and minimal RAM.
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post #13 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I rip my Blu-Rays and DVDs on a dedicated PC and then transfer them over to an unRAID server. I didn't put in my 2 cents because you already dismissed unRAID (a huge mistake, IMHO). FWIW, you can put together a basic unRAID setup pretty cheap and then expand it as your budget permits. You don't need anything more than a budget motherboard with onboard video, a low-powered CPU, and minimal RAM.

Not really dismissed right away but more preferred to use it as my ripping computer as well which UnRAID wont let me do. I may need to lean towards UnRAID unless I want to risk the shutdown of FlexRAID or the loss of data by not backing up.

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post #14 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 08:18 AM
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forgive my silly question...but here are a couple

1. can you rip a bluray WITH the HD audio?
2. if you can, why not just put it on external 2tb or even 4tb hdds?
3. what is the size of a fully ripped BD movie with HD audio?

i'm kinda looking into doing the same thing here. THX
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post #15 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

forgive my silly question...but here are a couple

1. can you rip a bluray WITH the HD audio?
2. if you can, why not just put it on external 2tb or even 4tb hdds?
3. what is the size of a fully ripped BD movie with HD audio?

i'm kinda looking into doing the same thing here. THX

Yes you can rip a full Bluray with HD audio
Putting it on an external hard drive does very little for backing up the rip in case your drive fails. A full bluray is on average 45gb or so

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post #16 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 08:47 AM
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Using optical media as the only backup is a bad idea, IMO.

You have many discs and -if you don't use them- you never know when one of them fails and your backup is gone.

OTOH, if you use HDDs to do backups you can easily check those HDDs for errors and if one of them starts going bad or fails you can replace it. The chance of two HDDs failing at the same time is very small, especially if you keep them separate (not connected to the same electrical grid).

The only way to make optical discs backup a viable solution would be if you have original discs and the distributer/seller is willing to replace the discs if they no longer work. I don't know if this is actually happening.

But eventually it all depends on what's good enough for you. A well stored optical disc should still have a long lifetime...
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post #17 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

Yes you can rip a full Bluray with HD audio
Putting it on an external hard drive does very little for backing up the rip in case your drive fails. A full bluray is on average 45gb or so

I don't mind the file size, and i'm not worried about the HDD dying..but what i want to make sure of is if I can rip a BD with full HD audio and then play it on my pc via HDMI to my Marantz SR6004 receiver and still get the HD audio. What is the best prog to play the ripped movies to do this?
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post #18 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thevato View Post

Using optical media as the only backup is a bad idea, IMO.

You have many discs and -if you don't use them- you never know when one of them fails and your backup is gone....

They're just movies. If one or two actually did go bad, I'd just buy it again.
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post #19 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 10:07 AM
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First, I think the thread is getting confused. I believe the OP is asking about the different ways to store the media and provide some form of protection against a drive failure (or multiple drive failures).

I personally use unRAID. I would not go back to external disks or a PC with some extra disks or any other such method. It's just not the same.

unRAID is in active development to change the system to one that accepts a plug-in architecture. It's possible that in the future that there would be a one-click capability to set-up a ripping program or some other features that presently are either not possible or a pain to get working.

Peter
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post #20 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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So if I set this unit up with Unraid I would replace some components as they would be overkill as is and then maybe setup a HTPC to do the ripping and such.

Then I would have the protection of the Unraid and still be able to rip my items but I would end up having another component. If I rip with a seperate HTPC can it transfer the rip via network to the Unraid server or does it need to be directly connected?

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post #21 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

So if I set this unit up with Unraid I would replace some components as they would be overkill as is and then maybe setup a HTPC to do the ripping and such.

Then I would have the protection of the Unraid and still be able to rip my items but I would end up having another component. If I rip with a seperate HTPC can it transfer the rip via network to the Unraid server or does it need to be directly connected?

Via network, which is kind of the point of unRAID - to be networked storage. It's meant o be a cheaper alternative than buying a ready-made, limitied expandability NAS, which would also be another component, without the ability to run other programs easily.

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post #22 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I don't mind the file size, and i'm not worried about the HDD dying..but what i want to make sure of is if I can rip a BD with full HD audio and then play it on my pc via HDMI to my Marantz SR6004 receiver and still get the HD audio. What is the best prog to play the ripped movies to do this?

Rip the movie with AnyDVD HD as an iso and strip out unwanted crap with Clown_BD. Use VirtualCloneDrive (free from Slysoft) for mounting the iso images. This can easily reduce the size of a ripped Blu-Ray by 50% or more. This adds up in a hurry if you rip and store a lot of Blu-Ray movies, as I do.

Several programs can play the iso files with HD audio. PowerDVD versions 8 thru 10 can do this easily (version 7 may also do it but I can't recall for sure). Arcsoft's Total Media Theater 3 can also play back HD audio (there's a special version supplied with the Asus HDAV 1.3 sound card that allows bitstreaming of HD audio). I'm currently using PowerDVD 10 with a Sapphire HD 5670 graphics card for bitstreaming HD audio to my Onkyo Pro preamp/processor. The iso images are stored on my unRAID server and streamed to several different HTPCs throughout my house. I'm using Windows Media Center and an automount utility that allows me to access all of my iso rips in WMC and play them with a single button press on the remote. The image gets mounted automatically in VirtualCloneDrive and playback is via PDVD 10. It just doesn't get any easier.
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post #23 of 42 Old 08-09-2010, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adammb View Post

So if I set this unit up with Unraid I would replace some components as they would be overkill as is and then maybe setup a HTPC to do the ripping and such.

Then I would have the protection of the Unraid and still be able to rip my items but I would end up having another component. If I rip with a seperate HTPC can it transfer the rip via network to the Unraid server or does it need to be directly connected?

Maybe I just didnt notice this brought up but.....

Your going to want two machines. a storage server that you throw in the garage or closet or something. That could be one of the options that are listed in the first post. Then you are also going to want a computer or media streamer at the tv location.
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post #24 of 42 Old 08-10-2010, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mslide View Post

They're just movies. If one or two actually did go bad, I'd just buy it again.

LOL, no kidding. The $25 movie of today is like a $4 bargain-bin movie by the time you lose or break the original disc. Backing it up is a massive time-waster. I have better things to do. Just buy the friggin' thing again in 5 years for $4 if you lose it. And if you DO lose it, your hard drive backup becomes ILLEGAL anyways.

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #25 of 42 Old 08-10-2010, 03:49 AM
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How comfortable are you with Linux?

While unRAID seems to be fairly easy to use, it wont fill all of your requirements (iTunes server, timemachine etc)

Linux has a very solid tool called mdadm - basically software RAID.
It's very powerful, will allow you to set up whatever raid array you want (raid0, 1, 5, 6, 1+0 etc), allow you to resize and grow arrays, and will also monitor the drives and report any faulty ones.

One of the biggest advantages of software raid is that you aren't tied to a particular piece of hardware. Hardware failure? - just grab the discs and throw them in another machine and you are good to go (with maybe a bit of trivial config).

There is also no performance hit over software vs hardware, particular for something like a media server.

I've set myself up an Ubuntu server (with no great knowledge of linux beforehand), running 5 x 500GB discs in Raid 5 - giving me fault tolerance for 1 disc and effectively 2TB of storage. It's been humming away nicely for a couple of years now. I'll soon start replacing some of the discs as budget allows, and expand my capacity.

Best thing is, being a stock standard Ubuntu server, I can also run whatever I want on it - web server, squeezebox server, mythtv PVR backend, torrents, etc.
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post #26 of 42 Old 08-13-2010, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pure-Evil View Post

I don't mind the file size, and i'm not worried about the HDD dying..but what i want to make sure of is if I can rip a BD with full HD audio and then play it on my pc via HDMI to my Marantz SR6004 receiver and still get the HD audio. What is the best prog to play the ripped movies to do this?

Hi,

my methodology is the following:
  1. Run AnyDVD HD
  2. Insert the Blu-ray, AnyDVD will remove the protection immediatelly
  3. Start tsMuxer (freeware) and open the movie M2TS file (is in blu ray STREAM folder) with it
  4. tsMuxer will show you the audio, video and subtitle tracks in the movie. You can remove the ones you don't need. You can throw out all french, spanish, chinese audio tracks and just keep the English (HD) track
  5. Select TS as output and run tsMuxer. It will write you a TS file with only the audio tracks you selected. It will be much smaller. No quality loss as it's only re-muxing and not recompressing.
  6. You can open the TS file with PowerDVD 10. It works perfectly with switching audio tracks if you need more than one and with HD audio. I have a Core i5 with onboard intel audio and it streams DTSHD and TrueHD perfectly to my Onkyo.

This way you can open directly the movie files, you don't need to mount an ISO, don't need to watch the FBI anti piracy warnings, movie ads, and you have a smaller file. Just connect TS files with PowerDVD and the movie starts a second after you click on it.

Only drawback is that using this method, PowerDVD can't show subtitles, even if you keep them in the TS file. But this is only an issue in movies like Avatar where you have foreign dialogues, so for these few movies you can still keep the whole ISO.

Hope this helps,

Andillo
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post #27 of 42 Old 08-13-2010, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andillo View Post

Hi,

my methodology is the following:
  1. Run AnyDVD HD
  2. Insert the Blu-ray, AnyDVD will remove the protection immediatelly
  3. Start tsMuxer (freeware) and open the movie M2TS file (is in blu ray STREAM folder) with it
  4. tsMuxer will show you the audio, video and subtitle tracks in the movie. You can remove the ones you don't need. You can throw out all french, spanish, chinese audio tracks and just keep the English (HD) track
  5. Select TS as output and run tsMuxer. It will write you a TS file with only the audio tracks you selected. It will be much smaller. No quality loss as it's only re-muxing and not recompressing.
  6. You can open the TS file with PowerDVD 10. It works perfectly with switching audio tracks if you need more than one and with HD audio. I have a Core i5 with onboard intel audio and it streams DTSHD and TrueHD perfectly to my Onkyo.

This way you can open directly the movie files, you don't need to mount an ISO, don't need to watch the FBI anti piracy warnings, movie ads, and you have a smaller file. Just connect TS files with PowerDVD and the movie starts a second after you click on it.

Only drawback is that using this method, PowerDVD can't show subtitles, even if you keep them in the TS file. But this is only an issue in movies like Avatar where you have foreign dialogues, so for these few movies you can still keep the whole ISO.

Hope this helps,

Andillo

Andillo,

Could you give me a rough "average" of what size your final ripped files are when you retain one language?

Thank you.
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post #28 of 42 Old 08-13-2010, 09:51 AM
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It looks to me like hardware RAID and FlexRAID are your two best options. I personally use FlexRAID and it's great, though with one guy running the show I do feel uneasy about the future.

IMO, hardware RAID is the best solution. I ultimately want to have a dedicated server with hardware RAID, but at this time it is too expensive for me. FlexRAID was the next best solution as I wanted to maintain a computer that could be used as a normal desktop as well as a networked storage device.
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post #29 of 42 Old 08-13-2010, 10:37 AM
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Not a lot of help here, but here is what I am doing. I am storing full backups on a NAS, no redundancy yet but considering it. I will be moving to WHS shortly and will look at my options as part of that.

I am connected to the NAS at gigabit speed and have the Tx/Rx buffers maxed. It only takes a little extra time to backup straight to the NAS vs. backing up to the local HDD. Plus there is no need to copy out to the NAS after the backup is complete. I am curious to see if there is a performance difference with the new WHS - will probably run some simple performance tests.
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post #30 of 42 Old 08-13-2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Picture View Post

Andillo,

Could you give me a rough "average" of what size your final ripped files are when you retain one language?

Thank you.

Sure, but of course it depends on the bitrate, movie length and so on. Smaller movies are around 15-16 gigs, largest ones about 35-40. I'd say the majority is between 20 and 30.
So basically you'll fit about 80 movies on a 2TB disc, which is acceptable for me. And 3TB drives were announced already a few weeks ago ;-)

Hope this helps.
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