AMD Zacate - the next great HTPC chip? - Page 16 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-16-2011, 06:34 AM
Senior Member
 
ghostlobster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

So "he" = ghostlobster, right? Then you shouldn't quote my post as if "he" = renethx.

Yeesh! OK, my bad for posting the question! Yes, I have been keeping up with this thread. If there was reference to this board in the prior posting, sorry about missing it. The main point of the question was to get input on the board and to make certain I was not missing anything I'd need.

Ray
===Ghostlobster===
ghostlobster is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-16-2011, 07:13 AM
Member
 
AMG_Roadster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Am I right in assuming that the Zacate would be challenged if asked to record multiple streams of HD or would the tuner card offload most of that processing?

Sorry but I am not currently using a tuner card but in planning my HTPC I am trying to balance bang for the buck without backing myself into too much of a corner.
AMG_Roadster is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG_Roadster View Post

Am I right in assuming that the Zacate would be challenged if asked to record multiple streams of HD or would the tuner card offload most of that processing?

Sorry but I am not currently using a tuner card but in planning my HTPC I am trying to balance bang for the buck without backing myself into too much of a corner.

IMO the biggest "bang for your buck" is still the i3. However this comes at a $100-$150 additional cost. Depends on what you need and if you think the extra "wiggle room" is worth the extra cost.
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ilovejedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG_Roadster View Post

Am I right in assuming that the Zacate would be challenged if asked to record multiple streams of HD or would the tuner card offload most of that processing?

ATSC and QAM streams are already encoded in MPEG-2 (in the US). It doesn't require much CPU power to record. The process is mostly IO intensive. You'd probably reach HDD limits before you start taxing the CPU.

I agree with assassin, though. For now, Core i3 or Athlon II + discrete HD 5000 would give you best bang for the buck, at least until Llano.
ilovejedd is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
babgvant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I think the best fully capable system will be a SB pentium 35W G620T with a gt430 or passively cooled radeon 6xxx. But it will cost double zacate and consume more power. Its probably as cheap and low power as you can get and have a fully capable HTPC though.

I will probably just go with zacate, I'm planning on sticking a single 2gig stick of ram in it and getting a non usb 3.0 board so I should get a little better power consumption numbers than the reviews so far. I'm still a little worried about 1080i60 OTA picture quality, but other than that I know it will do everything I need.

Given* the recent advances in "IGP" systems, IMO it doesn't make sense to use a discrete GPU in most** new dedicated HTPC builds. The value of a discrete GPU is adding capability to an existing build.

* I haven't had a chance to test Zacate yet, so relying on what I've read
** Gaming and fringe cases excluded
babgvant is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dj4monie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Reseda, CA
Posts: 1,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG_Roadster View Post

Am I right in assuming that the Zacate would be challenged if asked to record multiple streams of HD or would the tuner card offload most of that processing?

Sorry but I am not currently using a tuner card but in planning my HTPC I am trying to balance bang for the buck without backing myself into too much of a corner.

LoveJ is right, UVD 3.0 does all the work but since its apart of the CPU, well... It hardly registers as usage however, I wouldn't worry about it.

I'm not sure if I understand multiple streams. Do you mean recording HD content on 2/4 channels and watching a BR rip? Yes that more than possible, Robert Heron did it with his Atom/ION setup. He was frustrated with local (meaning this PC) ripping of media it just took too long.

Fusion is shaping up to a superior multi-media laptop APU for sub-$400 market. I honestly think the desktop options offer the same value, in most testing the Zacate runs some things faster than the Atom, but not faster than typical desktop class systems.

If your streaming video, any video either from the optical drive, local hard drive or your network. It is hardly the bottleneck, I wouldn't be concerned with it.

There is no reason to "assume" that it won't handle multi-media duty and ripping BR and playing Cyrsis Warefare is not typical PC activities. Those users should not be in this thread, unless they are interested in a low powered (18w) but powerful HTPC solution.

A. Thomas -
GSN: djfourmoney
'03 SRT-4 12.74@106 in the 1/4
PSN - DJFourMoney
dj4monie is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:52 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

But it will cost double zacate and consume more power. Its probably as cheap and low power as you can get and have a fully capable HTPC though.

There was a recent review with the new i3 SB and it was running at 14 watts. I don't think you can safely say that the zacate will blow the SB out of the water as far as power usage.



http://www.missingremote.com/review/...tx-motherboard
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:42 AM
Member
 
AMG_Roadster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 129
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4monie View Post
LoveJ is right, UVD 3.0 does all the work but since its apart of the CPU, well... It hardly registers as usage however, I wouldn't worry about it.

I'm not sure if I understand multiple streams. Do you mean recording HD content on 2/4 channels and watching a BR rip? Yes that more than possible, Robert Heron did it with his Atom/ION setup. He was frustrated with local (meaning this PC) ripping of media it just took too long.
Yes - I meant recording OTA HD content on 2/4 channels at the same time I may or may not be watching something that is stored on the local network.

I am currently a DTV customer but find every season that there are fewer shows I am interested in watching. Too much is being cancelled or reworked and I am starting to question the value. Those shows that I would miss I can obtain through other means, e.g. Netflix. The big kicker being no longer getting college football on ESPN.

The HTPC will not be used for ripping of media. I have another computer that can serve that function as well as being a Media Server.
AMG_Roadster is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
StardogChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 146
This is the SandyBridge part I will lust after for a low-power/high-end HTPC:

Intel® Core™ i5-2500T Processor (6M Cache, 2.30 GHz)
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52212

A 45W quad-core that runs at 2.3Ghz but turbos up to 3.3GHz.

Big $$$$ though. Big $$$$. 1ku price is $216.

For low-power/mainstream HTPC I will lust after Zacate.

 

 

StardogChampion is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:52 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post
This is the SandyBridge part I will lust after for a low-power/high-end HTPC:

Intel® Core i5-2500T Processor (6M Cache, 2.30 GHz)
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=52212

A 45W quad-core that runs at 2.3Ghz but turbos up to 3.3GHz.

Big $$$$ though. Big $$$$. 1ku price is $216.

For low-power/mainstream HTPC I will lust after Zacate.
Agree with you totally.

However, I still think the current clarkdale i3 offers the best bang for the buck if you are wanting a little (actually a lot) more horsepower --- gaming, encoding, other usage like photoshop, etc. Probably looking at a $100-$150 increase in price. Worth it for some; not worth it for others.

However for the "average" HTPC I think the zacate looks like a winner.
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
StardogChampion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,081
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post
Agree with you totally.

However, I still think the current clarkdale i3 offers the best bang for the buck if you are wanting a little (actually a lot) more horsepower --- gaming, encoding, other usage like photoshop, etc. Probably looking at a $100-$150 increase in price. Worth it for some; not worth it for others.

However for the "average" HTPC I think the zacate looks like a winner.
For HTPC:
- SB/H67 would be my high-end (moot until it actually comes out for real)
- i3/H55 would be my middle
- Zacate would be my budget (and the only one I'd also use for nettop and possibly server builds)

 

 

StardogChampion is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 09:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
almostinsane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,027
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jack View Post
Ontario and Zacate will support up to 7.1 DTS Master and Dolby True HD audio up to 24Mbps
Are you sure about that? Is the driver support just not there yet?
almostinsane is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 09:49 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

For HTPC:
- SB/H67 would be my high-end (moot until it actually comes out for real)
- i3/H55 would be my middle
- Zacate would be my budget (and the only one I'd also use for nettop and possibly server builds)

That's a great list right there.

I have the last 2 on my buying guide. I'm holding on recommending a SB build until the parts are out, reviewed and not recalled.
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 11:41 AM
Member
 
chris19992's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Been reading this thread with great interest but I am still no closer to making a decision.

I want to build a HTPC that is small, silent and have a certain degree of portability to it, and have been looking at the Asus Zacate mobo and have been wondering if this is powerful and quick enough to open anydvd hd and rip the main movie file from my Blu-Rays directly to the HDD without converting or compressing the movie?

At the moment I am currently using my PS3 to play my movies and it decodes the hd audio to multichannel lpcm with (at least I think) no loss in quality, will the Zacate do the same?
chris19992 is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ilovejedd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris19992 View Post

I want to build a HTPC that is small, silent and have a certain degree of portability to it, and have been looking at the Asus Zacate mobo and have been wondering if this is powerful and quick enough to open anydvd hd and rip the main movie file from my Blu-Rays directly to the HDD without converting or compressing the movie?

Yeah sure. Even Atom's enough for that. For the most part, you'll probably be bottlenecked by your Blu-ray drive.
ilovejedd is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 03:26 PM
Senior Member
 
mesasone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4monie View Post

There is no reason to "assume" that it won't handle multi-media duty and ripping BR and playing Cyrsis Warefare is not typical PC activities. Those users should not be in this thread, unless they are interested in a low powered (18w) but powerful HTPC solution.

Isn't that the entire purpose of this thread? To discuss AMD's new platform which has the potential to be a "low powered (18w) but powerful HTPC solution"? Are individuals who are attempting to determine whether the hardware will suit their needs so out of place in this thread? Seems like we have every reason to be in this thread.

IBEW Local 1643
mesasone is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dj4monie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Reseda, CA
Posts: 1,311
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone View Post

Isn't that the entire purpose of this thread? To discuss AMD's new platform which has the potential to be a "low powered (18w) but powerful HTPC solution"? Are individuals who are attempting to determine whether the hardware will suit their needs so out of place in this thread? Seems like we have every reason to be in this thread.

I wasn't saying that, what I am saying is if you're keeping up with the thread then you know that this system has no problem handling media and normal PC task.

Playing games that require $200 Video Cards is not an average PC task.

Ripping BR is largely unknown by the vast majority of the normal PC user public.

Media Browser is more about cache. Put 4GB in the slots and cache images to RAM, DONE.

It will also handle MILD gaming, with a video card installed and still comes under the budget for a basic i3 build up. Even without a card you will not attempt gaming on ANY Intel box, if you do you're foolish or like slide shows.

AMD also makes software specifically for converting media files, it works with the Fusion APU as well and uses the GPU to convert files.

So let's review -

Does it handle all HD content including Flash 10.2 - YES

Will it do everything a Media Center does involving watching media (Live, Streamed or Recorded) - YES

Will it rip media? Yes but slower than typical Desktop class hardware, you're encourage to use rippers that support multiple cores and/or the GPU to help.

I don't understand this notion that a $200 PC will slow to a crawl being used as a Media Center PC.

Nonsense, untrue and BS.

This is an mITX embedded product with a powerful CPU/GPU and saves you from the price penalty involved with buying Atom/ION/2 boards or spending more money on pricey Intel desktop class hardware.

You can not build a i3 Intel anything for less than $350 but you can with Zacate including a both drives and even a OTA-HD TV Tuner.

If money is not an issue, get a i3, I don't understand the question marks, there is no question marks around i3, just price. If price is an issue then some compromises are natural and while you won't ask an AMD processor to do what an Intel does, I won't ask a Intel product to play a 3D game without laughing really hard, fair?

A. Thomas -
GSN: djfourmoney
'03 SRT-4 12.74@106 in the 1/4
PSN - DJFourMoney
dj4monie is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:07 PM
Member
 
chris19992's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Yeah sure. Even Atom's enough for that. For the most part, you'll probably be bottlenecked by your Blu-ray drive.

Thank you, now I just need to find out about the audio
chris19992 is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:18 PM
Senior Member
 
mesasone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris19992 View Post

Thank you, now I just need to find out about the audio

Zacate will bitstream both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio to your receiver, so you should be covered. Or do you specifically need it decoded on the HTPC?

IBEW Local 1643
mesasone is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
almostinsane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,027
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 24
uhh, I can't get it to bitstream. The ATI drivers don't do it with TMT5. I haven't read a single person saying they have got it to work.
almostinsane is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone View Post

Zacate will bitstream both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio to your receiver, so you should be covered. Or do you specifically need it decoded on the HTPC?

Its basically a 5450 videocard built in. Search for 5450 on here if you have other questions as there is lots of info.
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:39 PM
Member
 
chris19992's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone View Post

Zacate will bitstream both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio to your receiver, so you should be covered. Or do you specifically need it decoded on the HTPC?

At the moment I do need it decoded on the HTPC but if it is a hd5450 as assassin says then it should be fine
chris19992 is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:44 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris19992 View Post

At the moment I do need it decoded on the HTPC but if it is a hd5450 as assassin says then it should be fine

Quote:


Update(1/14/2011): AMD just confirmed for us that Zacate employs a Cedar core, equivalent to what you'd find in the aforementioned Radeon HD 5450, based on the company's VLIW5 architecture. Indeed, that gives you access to eight texture units and four ROPs.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-apu,2840.html
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jeffkro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Given* the recent advances in "IGP" systems, IMO it doesn't make sense to use a discrete GPU in most** new dedicated HTPC builds. The value of a discrete GPU is adding capability to an existing build.

* I haven't had a chance to test Zacate yet, so relying on what I've read
** Gaming and fringe cases excluded

Will have to agree to agree to disagree.
Until intel fixes the 23.xxx fps thing(supposedly ivy bridge) or amd adds 3d(maybe Llano). To get everything in a HTPC you need a discrete card, currently integrated is almost there.
jeffkro is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jeffkro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Agree with you totally.

However, I still think the current clarkdale i3 offers the best bang for the buck if you are wanting a little (actually a lot) more horsepower --- gaming, encoding, other usage like photoshop, etc. Probably looking at a $100-$150 increase in price. Worth it for some; not worth it for others.

However for the "average" HTPC I think the zacate looks like a winner.

Since intel hasn't fixed the 23.xxx fps thing, doesn't zacate actually playback non 3D blue rays better than core i3's?
jeffkro is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jeffkro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

There was a recent review with the new i3 SB and it was running at 14 watts. I don't think you can safely say that the zacate will blow the SB out of the water as far as power usage.



http://www.missingremote.com/review/...tx-motherboard

I would agree with you except for the fact that you need a discreet graphics card not to get the occasional hiccup caused by the 23.xxx fps problem. If not for this the SB core i3 would be the dead bang winner that ivy bridge is sure to be.
P.S. thats why I included the gt430 to the pentium setup.
jeffkro is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I would agree with you except for the fact that you need a discreet graphics card not to get the occasional hiccup caused by the 23.xxx fps problem. If not for this the SB core i3 would be the dead bang winner that ivy bridge is sure to be.

Except that most people (including me) don't even notice the 24p hiccup. I think the issue is way overblown.
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jeffkro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,053
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Except that most people (including me) don't even notice the 24p hiccup. I think the issue is way overblown.

It could be, but I kind of don't like knowing the problem is there. I like the idea of ivy bridge where it looks like it will do everything right.
jeffkro is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,961
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Liked: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

It could be, but I kind of don't like knowing the problem is there. I like the idea of ivy bridge where it looks like it will do everything right.

Well so do I. If I lived in 2012 I would be even happier because then I could use it.
assassin is offline  
Old 02-16-2011, 07:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
babgvant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,006
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I would agree with you except for the fact that you need a discreet graphics card not to get the occasional hiccup caused by the 23.xxx fps problem. If not for this the SB core i3 would be the dead bang winner that ivy bridge is sure to be.
P.S. thats why I included the gt430 to the pentium setup.

If you disable UAC SNB gets 23.973; which is better than NVIDIA (23.972) and slightly worse that AMD (23.976*-23.978).

* I haven't been able to get 23.976 with my 5550, but I've seen a few screen shots around from those who have.
babgvant is offline  
 
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off