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AMD Zacate - the next great HTPC chip?

178K views 939 replies 125 participants last post by  perpetual98 
#1 ·
 http://www.anandtech.com/show/3920/a...e-than-core-i5


It would be perfect for HTPC :-


- very small and low heat means very little cooling and a quiet fan

- 18W TDP - very low power

- the gpu does 1080p, is an extremely fast DX11 part, and can play games (!), and accelerate flash/html5/other apps (using OpenCL). AMD IGP's are much better than Intel's anemic offerings

- since its AMD, will be a performance bargain

- likely work with older hardware (socket and memory details unknown)

- better than Sandy Bridge for a lower price

- aimed at notebook/netbook market

- shipping Q4 2010


If it ships on time, I'm really looking forward to some Christmas deals!
 
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#427 ·
Asus has just put up the manual for the E35M1-I.


For those who were wondering:

- the plastic blue cap on the back next to the NIC is the Bluetooth module.

- The two on-board USB 3.0 ports are made available through a proprietary 20-1 pin (20 minus 1 pin) connector. The board comes with a cable/full height bracket for installation in the standard expansion slot for a total of 4 USB 3.0 ports in the back. I believe you can remove the bracket so you can internally connect to front panel USB 3.0 ports in cases that support them.
 
#428 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin /forum/post/20008221


Are there any head to head comparisons with the zacate vs the i3 clarkdale or sandy bridge? I know its kind of apples and oranges but the i3 is such overkill for HTPC that I thought a comparison in regards to HTPC use would be interesting.

Not a direct. There's a good review over on Silent PC of the Asus E35M1-M, but this has just caught my attention: http://www.missingremote.com/review/...UNoSFyWtVPrCtg


Hope that pasted ok as using iPhone...


Andy the reviewer got 14W idle on the i3 35W. That's pretty staggering. Silent PC got 18W on the Zacate... Hmm I know it's not like for like but both are detailed reviews.


So which system for a HTPC?! Hmmmm
 
#430 ·
"Not a direct. There's a good review over on Silent PC of the Asus E35M1-M, but this has just caught my attention: http://www.missingremote.com/review/...UNoSFyWtVPrCtg


Hope that pasted ok as using iPhone...


Andy the reviewer got 14W idle on the i3 35W. That's pretty staggering. Silent PC got 18W on the Zacate... Hmm I know it's not like for like but both are detailed reviews.


So which system for a HTPC?! Hmmmm"




My opinion is that I3-2100 is better than Zacate. The i3 has more processing power for those difficult file types. anandtech's review said there were some misforgivings with repect to 1080/60 and specific types camcorder video files with common types of encoding.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4134/t...on-for-miniitx


Failed Tests


- 1080p60 60 fps L5.1 H.264

- L5.1 H.264 (16 reference frames)

- FLAC, ASS Subs - High CPU Utilization

- HD Real Media

- Deinterlacing
 
#431 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shftup /forum/post/20010596


My opinion is that I3-2100 is better than Zacate. The i3 has more processing power for those difficult file types. anandtech's review said there were some misforgivings with repect to 1080/60 and specific types camcorder video files with common types of encoding.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4134/t...on-for-miniitx


Failed Tests


- 1080p60 60 fps L5.1 H.264

- L5.1 H.264 (16 reference frames)

- FLAC, ASS Subs - High CPU Utilization

- HD Real Media

- Deinterlacing

That's great. You should start a "i3-2100 - the next greater HTPC chip?" thread.
 
#432 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion /forum/post/20010653


That's great. You should start a "i3-2100 - the next greater HTPC chip?" thread.

Sorry did not mean to thread scrape - I did not include the quote (fixed now). I apologize, didnt mean to offend you or the OP. Wanted to simply provide FozzieKev another review for his info.
 
#434 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx /forum/post/20007977


Wow! ASRock is finally available.

You've been reading the thread and don't know why its cheaper????


Its cheaper because it doesn't have a USB 3.0 chip (MSI-E350IA, Asus M1 Pro, Gigabyte), nor does it have the above plus Bluetooth (Sapphire) or fully loaded (Asus mITX with Wifi and Bluetooth).


As I have said if it has legacy ports (USB 2.0) or SATA II instead of SATA III (Jetway), then it will be about $100 or less.


This is just the start, the MSI is $20 more but it has solid capacitors (like all the others that cost more). If you're not concerned about reliability the advantage of solid capacitors then get ASRock or Jetway but I don't think its a concern.


So it basically comes down to how you will use it.
 
#435 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone /forum/post/20011071


I wonder, is Zacate up to the task of ripping BDs to MKV if you didn't want/need to compress the video? I'm not sure where the bottleneck would typically occur here.

Using both the CPU and GPU to rip video is key but for pure CPU horsepower you have to manage your expectations. It will not match a typical modern desktop in task like this.


There is no bottleneck its just not as fast as more robust processor. I don't see how you can compare the speed of a 35w i3 or 45w AMD CPU to 18w Fusion APU. All the tested systems thus far have used SSD, only Silent PC's review didn't use one and it was still slower.


Slower doesn't mean it still can do it in a reasonable amount of time, but just don't expect to be done quickly. If you intend to have dual usage out of your HTPC then even as much as I like these boards, I would suggest something more powerful for the task you want to use it for.


The Fusion APU is perfect for normal every task that PC's do, ripping Blu Ray is not an average task by anybody's measure. If you're asking it do things that would even challenge a typical desktop, then don't attempt it here either.
 
#436 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shftup /forum/post/20010710


Sorry did not mean to thread scrape - I did not include the quote (fixed now). I apologize, didnt mean to offend you or the OP. Wanted to simply provide FozzieKev another review for his info.

Key info? I should hope the more powerful and more expensive i3 should be faster its a desktop class product. The Fusion APU is not (if you don't count games), its designed to compete with Intel's Atom processor.


Which it does for less with the same or better performance, especially when value is entered into the picture.


You can not get an i3 CPU with a board for less than $200 unless its on sale.


ASRock E350 - $110

2GB of 1066Hz - $20

RaidMax Case - $40

1TB 7200rpm - $70


Total $280


You can still add a Blu Ray Rom/DVD Burner drive in that Radimax case normal size for $80 and add HVR-2250 tuner card for dual channel OTA-HD playback/capture and still not hit what it would cost to build a competing i3 system.
 
#437 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane /forum/post/20010570


I'm not sure how you would get 14 watts on a 150w PSU. It also doesn't say how the power rating was calculated.

Power numbers were measured at the wall with a P4460.
 
#439 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone /forum/post/20011071


I wonder, is Zacate up to the task of ripping BDs to MKV if you didn't want/need to compress the video? I'm not sure where the bottleneck would typically occur here.

Why would you even want to try? It's like encoding on a netbook. Don't you have a serious PC for this?


Zacate is great for HTPC or maybe a low power media server. Ripping BR with one would be like watching paint dry.


BT
 
#440 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4monie /forum/post/20011102


You've been reading the thread and don't know why its cheaper????

I see why you post lots of information that were posted long time ago in the thread as if they are new information.
#425
 
#441 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjterry62 /forum/post/20011819


Why would you even want to try?

It should be fairly obvious why I would want to try it.



As for it's capability, I had hoped that between the lack of compression and acceleration from the GPU (If it were to even come into play at all) that it would be a reasonable request, but apparently that is not the case. I will take this into advisement before purchasing my hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4monie /forum/post/20011167


I don't see how you can compare the speed of a 35w i3 or 45w AMD CPU to 18w Fusion APU.

I never made this comparison.
 
#442 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx /forum/post/20011866


I see why you post lots of information that were posted long time ago in the thread as if they are new information.
#425

Oh stop, I hadn't updated the ASRock post with information about the USB3 version of it -



But at the same time he claimed to have read the thread but still asked why there's a price difference. I bet that ASRock solid capacitor and USB 3.0 board cost about $20-25 more than the basic board. Why more, cause USB 3.0 chips are made by other manufacturers, not by board makers or AMD.


Just like the ION chip set explains the cost increase of Atom Dual Core boards.


Just saying...
 
#443 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shftup /forum/post/20010710


Sorry did not mean to thread scrape - I did not include the quote (fixed now). I apologize, didnt mean to offend you or the OP. Wanted to simply provide FozzieKev another review for his info.

No worries. Personally, I'd pick the i3-2400S over the i3-2100.
 
#444 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mesasone /forum/post/20011884


It should be fairly obvious why I would want to try it.



As for it's capability, I had hoped that between the lack of compression and acceleration from the GPU (If it were to even come into play at all) that it would be a reasonable request, but apparently that is not the case. I will take this into advisement before purchasing my hardware.




I never made this comparison.

In a sense you did, you asked if a netbook/net-top, low cost multi-media laptop quality APU was good enough to rip BR. While not as slow as watching grass grow, it likely won't be faster until software is designed around it. The Fusion SDK has been released by AMD, so updates could happen any day now for things like Handbrake if their interested.


Nothing rips faster than AMD's own propitiatory software - AMD Video Converter


Until then I can't and won't recommend it for "do everything" HTPC, there are stronger, faster and more expensive options.


As with building a fast car -


Cheap and Fast or Reliable and Fast, pick any two.


Cheap and Reliable usually means STOCK AND SLOW by the way
 
#445 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4monie /forum/post/20011898


Oh stop, I hadn't updated the ASRock post with information about the USB3 version of it -



But at the same time he claimed to have read the thread but still asked why there's a price difference. I bet that ASRock solid capacitor and USB 3.0 board cost about $20-25 more than the basic board. Why more, cause USB 3.0 chips are made by other manufacturers, not by board makers or AMD.


Just like the ION chip set explains the cost increase of Atom Dual Core boards.


Just saying...

So "he" = ghostlobster, right? Then you shouldn't quote my post as if "he" = renethx.
 
#447 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shftup /forum/post/20010596


"Not a direct. There's a good review over on Silent PC of the Asus E35M1-M, but this has just caught my attention: http://www.missingremote.com/review/...UNoSFyWtVPrCtg


Hope that pasted ok as using iPhone...


Andy the reviewer got 14W idle on the i3 35W. That's pretty staggering. Silent PC got 18W on the Zacate... Hmm I know it's not like for like but both are detailed reviews.


So which system for a HTPC?! Hmmmm"




My opinion is that I3-2100 is better than Zacate. The i3 has more processing power for those difficult file types. anandtech's review said there were some misforgivings with repect to 1080/60 and specific types camcorder video files with common types of encoding.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4134/t...on-for-miniitx


Failed Tests


- 1080p60 60 fps L5.1 H.264

- L5.1 H.264 (16 reference frames)

- FLAC, ASS Subs - High CPU Utilization

- HD Real Media

- Deinterlacing

The CPU is definitely better, but the graphics card fails at the 23.xxxfps thing. The work around is a discrete graphics card that will bump up system idle. Of coarse it would be a more capable and powerful system.
 
#448 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro /forum/post/20012334


The CPU is definitely better, but the graphics card fails at the 23.xxxfps thing. The work around is a discrete graphics card that will bump up system idle. Of coarse it would be a more capable and powerful system.

There appears to be some variance b/w AMD GPUs (mine does 23.978), so even one of their cards won't guarantee 23.976. That said, while none of the GPU I've tested have been perfect I haven't been able to spot the 1 frame dropped every ~4 min @23.973...


The biggest drawback is price; Zacate has a clear advantage there.
 
#449 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant /forum/post/20012361


There appears to be some variance b/w AMD GPUs (mine does 23.978), so even one of their cards won't guarantee 23.976. That said, while none of the GPU I've tested have been perfect I haven't been able to spot the 1 frame dropped every ~4 min @23.973...


The biggest drawback is price; Zacate has a clear advantage there.

I think the best fully capable system will be a SB pentium 35W G620T with a gt430 or passively cooled radeon 6xxx. But it will cost double zacate and consume more power. Its probably as cheap and low power as you can get and have a fully capable HTPC though.


I will probably just go with zacate, I'm planning on sticking a single 2gig stick of ram in it and getting a non usb 3.0 board so I should get a little better power consumption numbers than the reviews so far. I'm still a little worried about 1080i60 OTA picture quality, but other than that I know it will do everything I need.
 
#450 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjterry62 /forum/post/20011819


Why would you even want to try? It's like encoding on a netbook. Don't you have a serious PC for this?


Zacate is great for HTPC or maybe a low power media server. Ripping BR with one would be like watching paint dry.


BT

Huh? He's not talking about re-encoding. All he's talking about is ripping which really should not have much to do with the CPU. Just HDD and BD-ROM read speed. I don't see why strictly ripping blu-rays on Zacate would be exponentially slower than higher-powered CPUs.


Now re-encoding, yes, that would probably take about 36-48 hours for a single movie.
 
#451 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx /forum/post/20011927


So "he" = ghostlobster, right? Then you shouldn't quote my post as if "he" = renethx.

Yeesh! OK, my bad for posting the question! Yes, I have been keeping up with this thread. If there was reference to this board in the prior posting, sorry about missing it. The main point of the question was to get input on the board and to make certain I was not missing anything I'd need.
 
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