Ceton InfiniTV 4 Questions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 10-06-2010, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello.. First I would like to say thank you for a great forum. I have ready different reviews on here before, and it really is a great place. Will be donating what I can soon, and even though it won't be much I will have to do a little every now and then when I can... because the site deserves it !

Anyways onto my question...

I am just trying to save up enough money to build a new PC. While I was pricing parts I found out that there may be tuners out there that can act just like the DVR I rent from Time Warner cable. This really caught my eye because I have bought tv tuners before ( even a pchdtv5500 ) which I though would get me the channels I needed, but was very disappointed. Of course like everyone else I wanted to be able to watch, and record the digital channels!

So I stumbled accross this Ceton InfiniTV 4 Tuner card which I read can record up to 4 channels at a time, and all digital channels ?

I just wanted to make sure before I bought this card I would be able to record what I needed. Does this mean it is able to record everything my TWC DVR box would be able too ? Also Fios is just being made available around here.. so while I am asking.. will this work for all of Fios channels as well ? I buy different packages like movie channels.. I also purchase seasonal football, and basketball packages as well so I want to be clear that this will be able to record those channels without a problem as well correct ??

Going to read more in the great HTPC thread that is provided (much thanks). Also going to use this comp as a regular PC, but again just want to make sure this will be able to record the same channels as the provided HD/DVRs you rent from the cable company... Have wasted $ in the past with misleading tuner descriptions so have to ask. If there is anything else you think I should know please post ( I am aware I will need to purchase a CableCARD, and only thing I am worried aboiut there is getting the techs to install it right ? Probably a thread explaining how to get it done right though! )

Thanks again!
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post #2 of 45 Old 10-06-2010, 09:33 PM
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Hi Ben,
I wanted to send a quick reply before I called it a night (early day tomorrow). The Ceton tuner uses a CableCARD that is rented from your cable provider. You don't buy the CableCARD. The first card you rent costs either nothing but I've heard of some providers charging up to $5/mo.
You can always check directly with Ceton specifically about your local cable provider but TWC and FIOS are compatible with this card. You will be able to get any channel you can currently get with the STB (i.e. AMC, TBS, HBO, ESPN, Music Choice channels, etc) with the exception of any VOD because the CableCARD spec doesn't allow two-way communication so there's no way for you to request a program on demand. You may need a SDV (switched digital video) Tuning Adapter if your local comany uses SDV.. give them a ring. It should be free. You MAY need a tech to come out and install it. It's up to them so again.. give them a ring.
Things are changing in the CableCARD realm but it won't be obsolete for at LEAST 5-10 years ... and we'll all be onto something cooler by then anyway.

I hope that helps!!

Jonathan

P.S. -- Just in case you don't know, Ceton is having a hard time getting their product made cause they're a new company so their pre-orders from April haven't even been filled yet, so expect some wait time if you order today. You may want to pre-order just to get your place in line right away. They are filled as first-come-first-served and they don't charge your card until it ships.

Good luck!

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post #3 of 45 Old 10-06-2010, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Awsome.. thanks for the reply !

I know you are taking off, but 3 questions for whenever you return ( or if anyone else knows )

#1 - Would packages like ESPN gameplan or HBO be considered on demand since you have to order them to unlock ?

#2 SDV (switched digital video).. basically at worst if they use it I call to get an adapter correct ?

#3 Are there any other tuners out there that are equivalent to this in case the wait time is too long ? Once I build my comp I don't think I will want to wait too long !

Thanks again.. really appreciate it !
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post #4 of 45 Old 10-06-2010, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Also read this on another forum

"But that's been fixed now, and I'm about to buy a Ceton "InfiniTV 4" for my computer. But if the FCC has its way, the card will be completely useless in two years when they force the cable companies to ditch the CableCARD technology altogether for a brand new one. Thanks a lot for wasting my time and money, FCC. I guess small startups like Ceton will go out of business, as their cards are rendered obsolete and stop working within a couple years."

I guess this is the change you were talking about ?

Maybe he is a little off on the 2 year estimate ?

Even still 500$ down the drain would stink!
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post #5 of 45 Old 10-07-2010, 04:16 AM
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Ceton began shipping the InfiniTV 4 back in August. I pre-ordered mine in March and received it in the 1st batch of tuners shipped from the manufacturer in India. They had a temporary parts shortage that held up production but now they're making them as fast as they can. I would suspect that there's currently a backlog of about 4-6 weeks after placing your order but it's well worth the wait. The price of the card is $399 plus shipping from whichever vendor you place your order. Depending on whether the vendor has ties to your state, you may also be charged sales tax.

I'm currently with FIOS and the Ceton works great. You will need to download and install a firmware update for use with FIOS but it's simple to do. You'll also need an 860MHz low pass filter to avoid interference from the FIOS MOCA setup.
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post #6 of 45 Old 10-07-2010, 06:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I'm currently with FIOS and the Ceton works great. You will need to download and install a firmware update for use with FIOS but it's simple to do. You'll also need an 860MHz low pass filter to avoid interference from the FIOS MOCA setup.

I read this a lot, but I do not have a low pass filter and I have no problems. I have FiOS, the coax connected wifi router, voice, etc.

EDIT: To clarify, I must say I do not have any problems on the 2 dozen or so channels I actually watch. I cannot say what is happening on the channels I do not watch.

EDIT EDIT: I started having issues with channels...probably had them the entire time but never noticed...things like the Travel Channel HD. Anyway, had to install the filter on the input to the Ceton Tuner. Apparently it is my router / MOCA setup causing the issues. When it was installed onto the MOCA output it did nothing.
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post #7 of 45 Old 10-07-2010, 06:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenB423 View Post

Also read this on another forum

"But that's been fixed now, and I'm about to buy a Ceton "InfiniTV 4" for my computer. But if the FCC has its way, the card will be completely useless in two years when they force the cable companies to ditch the CableCARD technology altogether for a brand new one. Thanks a lot for wasting my time and money, FCC. I guess small startups like Ceton will go out of business, as their cards are rendered obsolete and stop working within a couple years."

I guess this is the change you were talking about ?

Maybe he is a little off on the 2 year estimate ?

Even still 500$ down the drain would stink!

Using history as a guide, once the FCC created tha mandate to change they will give at least a 2 year window to do it in. The Cable Companies will do nothing the entire time, then file for an extension, which will be granted.

Most likely you will have the 2 year wait for the FCC, then another 2 to 4 years until the Cable Companies finally comply with the FCC. By then you will be ready to move on anyway.
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post #8 of 45 Old 10-07-2010, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenB423 View Post

#1 - Would packages like ESPN gameplan or HBO be considered on demand since you have to order them to unlock ?

You will be able to get all cable channels as well as the premium channels that you have to 'unlock'. It's just the VOD where you choose a specific show to watch at it starts playing from the beginning.


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Originally Posted by BenB423 View Post

#2 SDV (switched digital video).. basically at worst if they use it I call to get an adapter correct ?

Correct.. This SDV Tuning Adapter is a box that can communicate with the cable company and request channel streams (different than VOD). The FCC is trying to get rid of this extra burden on the cable company and the consumer by allowing the TV tuner to request the channels directly. But you're correct; worst-case scenario is that you'll have to put a tuning adapter box in with all of your other equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenB423 View Post

#3 Are there any other tuners out there that are equivalent to this in case the wait time is too long ? Once I build my comp I don't think I will want to wait too long !

There are no other CableCARD tuners out there (except an ATI tuner that will become obsolete and not work in a lot of areas soon). SiliconDust and Hauppage have apparently joined forces to bring a line of CableCARD tuners to the market but we haven't heard from them in a WHILE! Ceton's your best bet!

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post #9 of 45 Old 10-07-2010, 11:14 AM
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Even if the cablecard became obsolete in 2 years you would have saved 50% in rental fees to get 4 DVR tuners on FIOS possibly more if you also were to replace more STBs w/ extenders. Also keep in mind that even if the cablecard does become obsolete it doesn't mean your Ceton is obsolete just the use of the cablecard in it, it would still be able to tune clearQAM and could possible be able to still tune encrypted channels w/ whatever replaces the cablecard (we're most like to see some sort of IPTV replace the cable card so it's likely you'd still be able to use your Ceton).

If you still have any of your old digital tuner cards and they support clearQAM you can also use those to get more tuners for the channels they can get (I get over 30 on FIOS w/ all the HD local channels being among them and also being the channels most people actually watch the most makes these tuners useful for many even though they have cablecard tuners).

If you plan on switching to FIOS you have no option but to wait for the Ceton (or any others if/when they ever come out), but if you decided to stay w/ TWC then you can pick up an ATI DCT on ebay for $100-200(usually around $150) but even w/ the prices finally coming down they still usually cost about 60-70% more per tuner than a Ceton, mine should be on ebay soon as I expect to finally be getting my Ceton in this next batch.


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post #10 of 45 Old 10-07-2010, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I read this a lot, but I do not have a low pass filter and I have no problems. I have FiOS, the coax connected wifi router, voice, etc.

EDIT: To clarify, I must say I do not have any problems on the 2 dozen or so channels I actually watch. I cannot say what is happening on the channels I do not watch.

The problem only affects a handful of channels, IIRC. If the channels you watch don't fall into the range of affected channels you'll prbably never have to worry about it. I only had one channel that wouldn't come in (Fx HD) out of the handful that I normally watch. Once I installed the filter, it came in fine.
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post #11 of 45 Old 12-14-2010, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jonathanrn View Post

This SDV Tuning Adapter is a box that can communicate with the cable company and request channel streams (different than VOD). The FCC is trying to get rid of this extra burden on the cable company and the consumer by allowing the TV tuner to request the channels directly. But you're correct; worst-case scenario is that you'll have to put a tuning adapter box in with all of your other equipment.

Just want to add that if your cable company used SDV (Cox in NoVa is my current provider), then the Tuning Adapter(s) required with the Ceton tuner are a major pain in the ass. The cable company provides the adapters, but some adapters (Cisco) only support two-video steams, so you'll need two with the Ceton - although Cox can't seem to accommodate two in their system with one CableCard. Also each adapter is 12" x 7" x 1.75", + a 30 watt power brick, so placing them somewhere is also an issue.

Cox has been by a couple of times, but still can't use the Ceton with anything other than clear cable channels.

Ben
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post #12 of 45 Old 12-14-2010, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

The problem only affects a handful of channels, IIRC. If the channels you watch don't fall into the range of affected channels you'll prbably never have to worry about it. I only had one channel that wouldn't come in (Fx HD) out of the handful that I normally watch. Once I installed the filter, it came in fine.

Yeah, just refound this thread and edited my post. You are absolutely correct.
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post #13 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BenSanford View Post


Just want to add that if your cable company used SDV (Cox in NoVa is my current provider), then the Tuning Adapter(s) required with the Ceton tuner are a major pain in the ass. The cable company provides the adapters, but some adapters (Cisco) only support two-video steams, so you'll need two with the Ceton - although Cox can't seem to accommodate two in their system with one CableCard. Also each adapter is 12" x 7" x 1.75", + a 30 watt power brick, so placing them somewhere is also an issue.

Cox has been by a couple of times, but still can't use the Ceton with anything other than clear cable channels.

Ben

I know this is an old thread and possibly obsolete info but does thid still apply when using a tuning adapter? I just ordered the infinitv 4 and have a cable card and tuner being delivered this week.
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post #14 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 12:46 PM
 
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All tuning adapters now support 6 channels at one time. No problems there.
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post #15 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 12:53 PM
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I was very interested in getting a Ceton card, but the reviews on amazon and newegg have scared me. People are complaining that this card works great for the first couple of months, then it's unstable and doesnt lock a signal for more than a few hours at a time (some suspect a heating issue).

how big a deal is this? anyone using theirs had rock solid reception for 6 months?

I plan on only turning on my computer when I want to watch tv, so i'm not looking to have a computer running 24/7.
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post #16 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ou8thisSN View Post

I was very interested in getting a Ceton card, but the reviews on amazon and newegg have scared me. People are complaining that this card works great for the first couple of months, then it's unstable and doesnt lock a signal for more than a few hours at a time (some suspect a heating issue).

how big a deal is this? anyone using theirs had rock solid reception for 6 months?

I plan on only turning on my computer when I want to watch tv, so i'm not looking to have a computer running 24/7.

I was one of the first to get one, and no issues here, and it has been installed going on two years this summer. The card does get hot and does need to be kept cool. I had to add a PCI slot fan to blow air on it. But it has been running 24/7 the whole time in a very hot HTPC case.

-- Jim
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post #17 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

All tuning adapters now support 6 channels at one time. No problems there.

That's actually not true. All Cisco TA's should (at least, all the firmware that supports a minimum of 4 tuners actually supports 6 for Cisco). Motorola has a few software releases (going from memory, I believe 1.33 and 1.35 (I know 1.36 is 6-tuner) that only support 4 tuners. We are currently working with MSOs to get newer firmware rolled out to the TA's before a 6-tuner product is released.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #18 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ou8thisSN View Post

I was very interested in getting a Ceton card, but the reviews on amazon and newegg have scared me. People are complaining that this card works great for the first couple of months, then it's unstable and doesnt lock a signal for more than a few hours at a time (some suspect a heating issue).

how big a deal is this? anyone using theirs had rock solid reception for 6 months?

I plan on only turning on my computer when I want to watch tv, so i'm not looking to have a computer running 24/7.

I got my first one in the very first production batch back in August of 2010 and it's worked perfectly from day one. I have since purchased two more of them and have not had any issues. The reviews you read on Amazon and Newegg tend to be more negative than most so I wouldn't let them scare you. Chances are they were talking about the external USB version, which has had it's share of issues, and not the PCI-E internal model.
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post #19 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

That's actually not true. All Cisco TA's should (at least, all the firmware that supports a minimum of 4 tuners actually supports 6 for Cisco). Motorola has a few software releases (going from memory, I believe 1.33 and 1.35 (I know 1.36 is 6-tuner) that only support 4 tuners. We are currently working with MSOs to get newer firmware rolled out to the TA's before a 6-tuner product is released.

Ah, my bad. I extrapolated the Cisco bit to all tuners. 4 is really all we need right now (though YOU need 6 due to what you guys are working on).
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post #20 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I got my first one in the very first production batch back in August of 2010 and it's worked perfectly from day one. I have since purchased two more of them and have not had any issues. The reviews you read on Amazon and Newegg tend to be more negative than most so I wouldn't let them scare you. Chances are they were talking about the external USB version, which has had it's share of issues, and not the PCI-E internal model.


My only problem was with heat (installed a fan which also helps keep my vid card cool - the two are close to each other) and with NFL shows appearing as copy never. The NFL problem was a bug, fixed a LONG time ago.

My tuners have been rock solid for years - I also have one of the first batches produced...paid a lot for it, but being on the bleeding edge has its costs. I am glad I did, I changed to FiOS shortly after getting the Ceton and all the problems with my digital tuners vanished overnight. The wife hated them...she is now happy.

This quote from a missingremote reviewer's wife says it all:

Quote:
I highly recommend investing in the Ceton InfiniTV 4 tuner. It is pleasing to know that there is finally a product out there that works and that I can use without any disruptions. My only question, why has it taken so long?

This is great news for my husband who will never again have to hear me cry out: "Why can't we just watch normal TV like normal people!"

http://www.missingremote.com/review/...d-tuner-part-i

After reading that part of the review, my wife immediately authorized the $400 for the card and she exclaimed "there, someone who understands!"
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post #21 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 07:09 PM
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Its really nice to hear some positive feedback about these cards. Most of the time people only post when they have problems. So when someone starts looking into them for the first time (like I recently have) it does get a little scary. I certainly dont mind fiddling and tweaking with things to make them work, but it has to be reliable enough for the whole family to enjoy. I am looking forward to getting mine in a couple days.
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post #22 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

I got my first one in the very first production batch back in August of 2010 and it's worked perfectly from day one. I have since purchased two more of them and have not had any issues. The reviews you read on Amazon and Newegg tend to be more negative than most so I wouldn't let them scare you. Chances are they were talking about the external USB version, which has had it's share of issues, and not the PCI-E internal model.

The latest reviews are specific to the internal model. I'd love to buy this card, given that I get an extra tuner at the same price point as the silicondust tuner.

Are you also running a pci slot fan with yours?

I also hate to continue hijacking this thread, but I have no time to build a computer from scratch. I was wondering if any of you are using a pre-built system, like from Dell?

I was wanting to buy a XPS 8300 (Core™ i7-2600 processor, 8GB4 DDR3, AMD Radeon™ HD 6450). Would this computer work?
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post #23 of 45 Old 03-26-2012, 11:33 PM
 
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A Dell should be fine. I did this:



Though I now use tie wraps instead of just pressure to hold it in place.
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post #24 of 45 Old 03-27-2012, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ou8thisSN View Post

The latest reviews are specific to the internal model. I'd love to buy this card, given that I get an extra tuner at the same price point as the silicondust tuner.

Like I said, take those reviews with a grain of salt.

Quote:


Are you also running a pci slot fan with yours?

Nope. Never had the need to. Mine runs fine without extra cooling.

Quote:


I also hate to continue hijacking this thread, but I have no time to build a computer from scratch. I was wondering if any of you are using a pre-built system, like from Dell?

You couldn't make me use a pre-built PC from Dell or anyone else. Most pre-built systems have proprietary hardware that don't let you install extra drives or other components without special brackets or other mounting hardware that you can only get from the manufacturer at an inflated price. Mine's DIY all the way.

Building a PC from scratch doesn't take all that much time. The actual construction takes 30-60 minutes, tops, and the rest is just installing software and Windows updates, which can be done in your spare time.

Quote:


I was wanting to buy a XPS 8300 (Core™ i7-2600 processor, 8GB4 DDR3, AMD Radeon™ HD 6450). Would this computer work?

Sure, but it's overkill for an HTPC. I wouldn't go with anything more powerful than a Core i5 and a Core i3 has more than enough horsepower to run anything you need in an HTPC. 4GB of RAM is also more memory than you'll need unless you're running a lot of extenders.
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post #25 of 45 Old 04-10-2012, 01:33 PM
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if you use the dvr functionality on an extender, how quick is the response? I mean it has to register back on the computer where the ceton card is, through ethernet/switches/routers etc. Is there a significant lag?

I'm asking because I currently stream mkv files from my win7 desktop to my 360, and use the 360 as an extender, but there is lag when scanning or playing a 720p mkv file.

is there any issue when using this setup, in terms of lag?
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post #26 of 45 Old 04-10-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ou8thisSN View Post

The latest reviews are specific to the internal model. I'd love to buy this card, given that I get an extra tuner at the same price point as the silicondust tuner.

Are you also running a pci slot fan with yours?

I also hate to continue hijacking this thread, but I have no time to build a computer from scratch. I was wondering if any of you are using a pre-built system, like from Dell?

I was wanting to buy a XPS 8300 (Core i7-2600 processor, 8GB4 DDR3, AMD Radeon HD 6450). Would this computer work?

I use mine in a Dell XPS 420 with no issues. Your computer will be fine as long as you have an empty pcie slot. I use a x1 slot that isn't close to other cards. This helps keep the card cool.
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post #27 of 45 Old 04-11-2012, 10:16 AM
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i've built 5 boxes for my friends in my neighborhood and 2 for people in my apt complex when i lived in my apartment in the last year.

A. Use the PCIe, its better and has less conflicts than the USB Tuner.

B. The USB Tuner is Cheaper and Mobile (can hop from system to system in your house, but then again you can also just setup network tuners).

C. The USB Tuner had Firmware issues ( I was updating the USB Tuner's firmware to a beta version before I delivered the units, that resolved the issues, also had to set USB Power Settings to Always on/Never Off.

D. If you dont have a Window fan on the side of your PC Case, I recommend some type of active cooling on the card, if you have poor airflow in your case, this card will get warm, then hot, and from there issues will set it.

E1. The Tuners (USB or PCIe) are both 1 way, you’d most likely need a SDV adapter, you should get every channel you pay for (HBO, MAX, Encore, ESPN, Whatever), the only channels that will not work are the ON DEMAND channels which are actually 2 way Communications, Streaming Video -> Hardware MAC.

E2. If you want HBO or MAX on Demand, both Channels now Offer HBO Go and Max GO, and by my count, the GO websites for both channels have nearly 5x the content as their Cable Box OnDemand Counterparts. Seeing as the Xbox 360 has apps for Epix and HBO Go, im pretty sure media center will have them soon as well.



Im waiting to get more Info on the Ceton Q and Echo’s, there is a Ceton Person that posts here on AVS somewhere.

I just wanted to know if the Ceton Q would be able to have tuners set for network tuners, as I would buy one of those and use some of the tuners for network tuners on PCs.

I’ve already seen reviews of the Ceton Q being a custom PC running a Custom media Center front end, and I would supposedly be able to re-format and install Win7 onto the hardware if I wanted to.

if not I'll just build a Water Cooled Silent PC w/ 2 Infiniti4 PCIe Cards ( 8 tuners total) and set a few of those for network tuners.

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post #28 of 45 Old 04-11-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkateZilla View Post

i've built 5 boxes for my friends in my neighborhood and 2 for people in my apt complex when i lived in my apartment in the last year.

A. Use the PCIe, its better and has less conflicts than the USB Tuner.

B. The USB Tuner is Cheaper and Mobile (can hop from system to system in your house, but then again you can also just setup network tuners).

C. The USB Tuner had Firmware issues ( I was updating the USB Tuner's firmware to a beta version before I delivered the units, that resolved the issues, also had to set USB Power Settings to Always on/Never Off.
D. If you dont have a Window fan on the side of your PC Case, I recommend some type of active cooling on the card, if you have poor airflow in your case, this card will get warm, then hot, and from there issues will set it.

E1. The Tuners (USB or PCIe) are both 1 way, you'd most likely need a SDV adapter, you should get every channel you pay for (HBO, MAX, Encore, ESPN, Whatever), the only channels that will not work are the ON DEMAND channels which are actually 2 way Communications, Streaming Video -> Hardware MAC.

E2. If you want HBO or MAX on Demand, both Channels now Offer HBO Go and Max GO, and by my count, the GO websites for both channels have nearly 5x the content as their Cable Box OnDemand Counterparts. Seeing as the Xbox 360 has apps for Epix and HBO Go, im pretty sure media center will have them soon as well.



Im waiting to get more Info on the Ceton Q and Echo's, there is a Ceton Person that posts here on AVS somewhere.

I just wanted to know if the Ceton Q would be able to have tuners set for network tuners, as I would buy one of those and use some of the tuners for network tuners on PCs.

I've already seen reviews of the Ceton Q being a custom PC running a Custom media Center front end, and I would supposedly be able to re-format and install Win7 onto the hardware if I wanted to.

if not I'll just build a Water Cooled Silent PC w/ 2 Infiniti4 PCIe Cards ( 8 tuners total) and set a few of those for network tuners.

Can you please explain where and how you set those power setting to get the results you did?
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post #29 of 45 Old 04-11-2012, 12:32 PM
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Start Control Panel, Power Options, Advanced, USB, Turn Off after: Never

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post #30 of 45 Old 04-11-2012, 12:42 PM
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Start Control Panel, Power Options, Advanced, USB, Turn Off after: Never

Much obliged! Assume you only mean for the USB the Inf4 is using, right? Others do not create conflicts, I assume.
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