Is it possible to get HD audio full bitrate, over analog 5.1, EVEN if downsampled? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:04 PM
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Doesn't look like my local retailers have that one. I'll have to order it.
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post #62 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:11 PM
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As for media subtype, here are a couple of screenshots.

ffdshow *core* DTS decoding inside MPC HomeCinema:

ffdshow DTS-HD MA bitstreaming inside MPC HomeCinema:

CyberLink Audio Decoder DTS-HD MA(?) decoding inside MPC HomeCinema:

So all three are identical.

PowerDVD 9 DTS-HD MA decoding (a commercial BD player)

Cyberlink Demuxer 2.0. Audio is downsampled to 48kHz, 16bit (perhaps because of the lack of PAP)

I see {6A644687-5756-4D0D-8AA3-178ACF48DEC9}.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

The Cyberlink Audio Decoder will only decode full DTS-HD when the subtype is reported as "{6A644687-5756-4D0D-8AA3-178ACF48DEC9}"

Yes, "{6A644687-5756-4D0D-8AA3-178ACF48DEC9}" is reported if full DTS-HD is decoded in PowerDVD/CyberLink Demuxer. But this does not necessarily mean that "{6A644687-5756-4D0D-8AA3-178ACF48DEC9}" must be reported if full DTS-HD is decoded with any player/splitter (?)
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post #63 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeBoma View Post

power dvd version ( i use 10.0.1516.51)

This could be the key. I was testing with a newer version. I'll try it later.
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post #64 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Yes, "{6A644687-5756-4D0D-8AA3-178ACF48DEC9}" is reported if full DTS-HD is decoded in PowerDVD. But this does not necessarily mean that "{6A644687-5756-4D0D-8AA3-178ACF48DEC9}" must be reported if full DTS-HD is decoded at any player??

All depends on how they coded it so I can only speculate. If they coded it like ffdshow does where it ignores the media type and actually checks the stream (as seen in your screenshots) then the media type won't matter.
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post #65 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:29 PM
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The critical filter in DTS HD streaming is demuxer, not decoer itself.

For instance:

The source file:





And you will see MPC Mpeg Source (Gabest) detects it as 48, Cyberlink Audio decoder reads it as 48 but ReClock shows it as 96???



And ReClock shows the true info; where do i know?

I know since i see 96k on my AVR's display.

And; no conclusion.

I can't explain that.

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post #66 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:35 PM
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baraka dts track decoded by mpc splitter ffdshow audio decoder figure 1





baraka dts hd ma decoded by mpc splitter cyberlink audio decoder figure 2





baraka dts core is NOT 96 khz, it's 48 khz, but you were right, dts core CAN theoretically be 96 khz, just this one isn't
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post #67 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:54 PM
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Have you heard of Super HiVi CAST? The disc includes 7.1 surround sound tests in both TrueHD and DTS-HD MA (a P51 Mustang is circulating around the speakers). I played the DTS-HD MA version with MPC-HC + CyberLink Audio Decoder and got correct 7.1 discrete sounds, exactly identical with sounds from commercial BD players. This would be impossible if only core DTS were decoded (even if Dolby PLIIx were working).

Dolby TrueHD

- Surround_TrueHD_7.1.mkv
- Surround_TrueHD_7.1.m2ts
- Surround_TrueHD_7.1.ISO

DTS-HD Master Audio

- Surround_DTS-HD_MA_7.1.mkv
- Surround_DTS-HD_MA_7.1.m2ts
- Surround_DTS-HD_MA_7.1.ISO

LPCM

- Channel_Test_LPCM_7.1.mkv
- Channel_Test_LPCM_7.1.m2ts

Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC-3)

- Channel_Test_E-AC-3_7.1.m2ts
- It seems that I can't create a MKV file with an E-AC-3 track from the above file by using eac3to or MakeMKV.

DTS-HD High Resolution Audio

- Channel_Test_DTS-HD_HRA_7.1.mkv
- Channel_Test_DTS-HD_HRA_7.1.m2ts



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post #68 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 01:58 PM
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I think ricabullah has a point, there is something odd about the reports of mpc-hc, I too read it is a dts 48 khz 1.5 mb track on the properties of source filter, but this makes no sense because reclock is reporting 96 khz... I don't think there can be upsampling
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post #69 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeBoma View Post

I think ricabullah has a point, there is something odd about the reports of mpc-hc, I too read it is a dts 48 khz 1.5 mb track on the properties of source filter, but this makes no sense because reclock is reporting 96 khz... I don't think there can be upsampling

It's impossible since it directly passhhrough to AVR without dropping to mixer;
otherwise i couldn't see 96 k on my AVR's display. (WasApi Exclusive)
What is missing in my case there is a downmixing not downsampling. (so it's not bitperfect-lets say as is.)
I'm trying to find a hack to PDVD10 decoder but no luck.

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post #70 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I played the DTS-HD MA version with MPC-HC + CyberLink Audio Decoder and got correct 7.1 discrete sounds, exactly identical with sounds from commercial BD players. This would be impossible if only core DTS were decoded

I would agree with that. So it looks like GrandeBoma is correct (no offence, I just like confirmation). Unfortunately, I still cannot get any PDVD audio decoder version to connect to any renderer. Granted, I am using trial versions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeBoma View Post

I think ricabullah has a point, there is something odd about the reports of mpc-hc, I too read it is a dts 48 khz 1.5 mb track on the properties of source filter, but this makes no sense because reclock is reporting 96 khz... I don't think there can be upsampling

Try using BDInfo to check the stream.
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post #71 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 02:20 PM
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PowerDVD 9 Build 2320 and PowerDVD 9 Build 2528 (the last build) are guaranteed to work with the latest SVN of MPC HomeCineam and ReClock under Windows 7 (32-bit). (Actually the audio decoder in Build 2320 has issues, but first I have to install it before updating.)
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post #72 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 02:22 PM
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then we must come to the conclusion that mpc splitter is lying about what is being passed to the decoder and the decoder is lying about what is being passed to reclock. Then reclock and the avr tell the truth

vladd I have retail of both pdvd 9 and 10. I don't think this is the reason you can't connect it. Are you using the same mpc and pdvd version as me and rene?

ricabullah you need to get pdvd 9 audio decoder if you want to make the changes in channel count that will apply to pdvd 10 audio decoder
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post #73 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 02:29 PM
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My retail PDVD 9 decoders work fine, it's just the version 10 trial audio decoders I can't get working. I don't use MPC, my tests were in GraphStudio (same effect).
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post #74 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

My retail PDVD 9 decoders work fine, it's just the version 10 trial audio decoders I can't get working. I don't use MPC, my tests were in GraphStudio (same effect).

SVN 2667 standalone Gabest is working on my graph. (see SCaps.)
All my caps are GraphStudio shots. (except MPC-HC SC)

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post #75 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

My retail PDVD 9 decoders work fine, it's just the version 10 trial audio decoders I can't get working. I don't use MPC, my tests were in GraphStudio (same effect).

well my experience is that pdvd 9 will connect to the splitter but it will not play any sound... I too could build the graph but couldn't hear a damn thing
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post #76 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 03:05 PM
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Guys after i loaded PDVD9, i can not get any sound with PDVD10 Audio Decoder as well?

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post #77 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeBoma View Post

well my experience is that pdvd 9 will connect to the splitter but it will not play any sound... I too could build the graph but couldn't hear a damn thing

That's the issue I have pretty much every time I try to use reclock. I have to use normal renderers.
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post #78 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricabullah View Post

Guys after i loaded PDVD9, i can not get any sound with PDVD10 Audio Decoder as well?

OK guys it was a temporary unagreement between AVR and PC.
I get audio but it's still 2 channels.
How do i fix it?

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post #79 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 03:27 PM
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Ok, this is a case of doing so much testing, I can't remember things. The Cyberlink audio decoders have decoded DTS-HD/TrueHD since PDVD 9 build 2528. rene, we even discussed it.

@Rica: see the registry instructions on the next page of the following thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimm View Post

New PowerDVD Ultra 9 patch 2528 available.


Updates:
Adds DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD file playback support
Adds TrueTheater HD with ATI Stream support
Adds TrueTheater with CUDA for video file playback
Adds support for Realtek ACL669/670/892 HD audio codec

Solved issues:
- GP issue with installed COMODO Firewall
- Region Code issue (BD) with installed Bitdefender SW
- Playback issues with AV Software installed

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post #80 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 03:37 PM
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Ok but the question is how do i configure it so as not to downmix?

(i can't see the next page of what thread?)

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post #81 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 03:44 PM
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Configure PowerDVD the way you want the decoder to work in other directshow apps and then use the method outlined in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2553
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post #82 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 03:56 PM
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Thanks vladd.

As you pointed we forget what we've done before: test, test, test

I'll take some notes anymore

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post #83 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 04:09 PM
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pdvd 9 audio decoder, unlike the cousin pdvd 10 audio decoder does not keep the 96/24 not even with reclock wasapi, instead it will do 48/16

is this correct in your experience?!?
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post #84 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeBoma View Post

pdvd 9 audio decoder, unlike the cousin pdvd 10 audio decoder does not keep the 96/24 not even with reclock wasapi, instead it will do 48/16

is this correct in your experience?!?

Yes, i've never seen any 96/24 with PDVD9.

But i have to point out something:

ReClock, even it's set to WASAPI Exclusive, just gets decoded audio and passes it to your AVR without dropping to MS mixer.
If your decoder downsamples or downmixes the audio, ReClock has nothing to do.
In this case it's gonna be WASAPI Exclusive as well but not bitperfect.

Bitperfect means:
Decoder has to be able to decode the audio as is; without downsampling, without downmixing, without post-processing.
BTW don't adjust your sound blaster's SW for any post processing, just leave its sound processor for converting Digital to Analog. (DAC)
This unmolested audio should be carried to your AVR without dropping to MS mixer for post processing. (via ReClock Renderer- set to WASAPI EXclusive)


After this stage your AVR shouldn't touch your unmolested audio.
AVR's DSP should be bypassed via Direct and Pure Audio selection.
Direct means no post-processing, pure means no ADC before, no DAC later; analog audio bypasses ADC/DAC and directly goes to pre amplifier.
If you are streaming PCM audio over analog, the best way is to use an AMP instead of an AVR for sure.


I stated WASAPI Exclusive differences over ReClock on:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...34&postcount=1

Quote:


ReClock config for streaming PCM or FLAC:

Over WASAPI Exclusive: (Non-bitexact streaming or bitexact streaming with ReClock)

Offline Config:

Inline Config:

Non-bitexact streaming:

Leave ReClock properties as is and in this case molested PCM/Flac streaming by ReClock will be trasmitted to your AVR without 7/Vista mixer's interfaring.
This is a WASAPI Exclusive mode for sure but it is not bitexact. (ReClock icon is green)



Bitexact streaming:

Config inline properties of ReClock and "select original speed", "locked" and "slave reference to audio".
In this case, ReClock transmits unmolasted decoded pcm/flac stream to your AVR. And this is gonna WASAPI exclusive-bitexact(bitperfect) mode. (ReClock icon is yellow)



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post #85 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Configure PowerDVD the way you want the decoder to work in other directshow apps and then use the method outlined in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=2553

Would you explain this more detailled?
Step by step guide

Export to where and how to edit?



Import to where and how?



Thanks.

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post #86 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 06:32 PM
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I have a list of the exact registry values somewhere. I'll try to find them.
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post #87 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 06:38 PM
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Thanks in advance.

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post #88 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 07:58 PM
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I'll have to double check these later but here they are:

Once you load the Cyberlink Audio decoder in the directshow player you want, it will create a registry key under the following where [ExeName] is the name of the executable:

Code:
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\Software\\Cyberlink\\Common\\CLAud\\[ExeName]
For example, the registry key for GraphStudio would be:

Code:
 
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\\Software\\Cyberlink\\Common\\CLAud\\GraphStudio
Adjust the following values as needed:




4 channel:
  • "AuDsInterface"=dword:00000010
  • "AuDsDnmx"=dword:00000040
6 channel:
  • "AuDsInterface"=dword:00000020
  • "AuDsDnmx"=dword:00000080
7 channel:
  • "AuDsInterface"=dword:00000040
  • "AuDsDnmx"=dword:00000800
8 channel:
  • "AuDsInterface"=dword:00000080
  • "AuDsDnmx"=dword:00001000
SPDIF output:
  • "AuDsInterface"=dword:00000004
  • "AuDsDnmx"=dword:00000002
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post #89 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeBoma View Post

pdvd 9 audio decoder, unlike the cousin pdvd 10 audio decoder does not keep the 96/24 not even with reclock wasapi, instead it will do 48/16

is this correct in your experience?!?

NO, that's perfectly wrong, depending on the build of PowereDVD 9. All my results were obtained with PowerDVD 9.0.2528.51 (the last build). CyberLink Audio Decoder of this build works as it should be (except for the fixed channel count). The following screenshot was taken with CyberLink Audio Decoder of PowerDVD 9 Build 2528:

PowerDVD 9 Build 2320 constantly reports 48/16. Saying PowerDVD 9 in general is able or unable to do something is very confusing. I would like to ask everybody to mention the build somewhere. The same applies to PowerDVD 10. Please include the build number!
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post #90 of 202 Old 10-18-2010, 11:27 PM
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IMO attempting to use the audio decoder of PowerDVD 10 outside it is pretty useless for two reasons.

1. Nobody has ever succeeded in using CyberLink Audio Decoder of PowerDVD 10 (any build) in a DirectShow player, except for GrandeBoma with Build 1516 under XP (or in the XP mode under 7; who would want to play videos in XP mode just for this purpose?).
2. Even if the audio decoder of a certain build worked, who would want to stay with that build forever? Perhaps many people want to stay current. (Or is it possible to extract necessary components from that build, store them somewhere else, and use the audio decoder there successfully?)
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