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post #541 of 3703 Old 12-20-2010, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul E. Fox, II View Post
Maybe I'm not fully explaining what I want to do but as I understand it, the 4670 does not allow for me to simply rip a BD Disc containing one of the HD Audio Codecs and play it back as such without some work on my part behind the scenes...
It generally will. We can eliminate ripping from the discussion. Assuming you go that route, it will not change things in any way from how PC/TMT handles the disc vs your standalone Blu-ray handles the disc. So we can just simplify and talk about Blu-ray on PC/TMT vs standalone.

If you're primarily watching hollywood movies, in over 99% of cases you'll be getting the same audio quality (48khz).

If you want to look into the 1% and see if it in any way applies to you, you can go to this link (www.blu-raystats.com) select the Blu-Ray Statistics menu entry then use the Audio... filter to look at discs with 96khz and 192khz audio only. These are the discs that your PC hardware does not currently support at their native rate, so they will be downsampled to 48khz. Keep in mind that 48khz is still considered HD. It's just a slightly lower quality than otherwise and what your standalone player is capable of. Some people say they can hear this difference. Others cannot. (I can't.) I think few would go so far as to say 48khz sounds bad--it's what 99% of Blu-ray movies are to start with and I hear no complaints.
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post #542 of 3703 Old 12-20-2010, 02:40 PM
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You can trust Jason on this one. Your 4670 is going to be able to give you decoded PCM 48/16 from any HD audio source. Given the state of ArcSoft's audio decoding routines at this point, I would consider it a VERY acceptable method for playback. Bitstreaming is not going to give you anything more in terms of audio quality. (And if you have the equipment that would THEORETICALLY allow you to hear the difference, then you can afford to set yourself up with a bitstreaming card. ) So yea, you're good to go with that card and TMT.
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post #543 of 3703 Old 12-20-2010, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Micah View Post

For anyone who didn't buy during the 35% off Pre-Christmas sale (like myself), Arcsoft is showing another 35% off Winter Savings sale right now. The prices don't seem to have updated yet, hopefully that'll happen here soon, but here's another opportunity to get TMT5 at a reduced cost.

Yay!

edit: Figured out why the prices weren't updating. Need to enter the code: winter2010 when checking out to get the discount. The sale is through 12/22.

Just ordered with discount $34.99 great deal.
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post #544 of 3703 Old 12-20-2010, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

It generally will. We can eliminate ripping from the discussion. Assuming you go that route, it will not change things in any way from how PC/TMT handles the disc vs your standalone Blu-ray handles the disc. So we can just simplify and talk about Blu-ray on PC/TMT vs standalone.

If you're primarily watching hollywood movies, in over 99% of cases you'll be getting the same audio quality (48khz).

If you want to look into the 1% and see if it in any way applies to you, you can go to this link (www.blu-raystats.com) select the Blu-Ray Statistics menu entry then use the Audio... filter to look at discs with 96khz and 192khz audio only. These are the discs that your PC hardware does not currently support at their native rate, so they will be downsampled to 48khz. Keep in mind that 48khz is still considered HD. It's just a slightly lower quality than otherwise and what your standalone player is capable of. Some people say they can hear this difference. Others cannot. (I can't.) I think few would go so far as to say 48khz sounds bad--it's what 99% of Blu-ray movies are to start with and I hear no complaints.

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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

You can trust Jason on this one. Your 4670 is going to be able to give you decoded PCM 48/16 from any HD audio source. Given the state of ArcSoft's audio decoding routines at this point, I would consider it a VERY acceptable method for playback. Bitstreaming is not going to give you anything more in terms of audio quality. (And if you have the equipment that would THEORETICALLY allow you to hear the difference, then you can afford to set yourself up with a bitstreaming card. ) So yea, you're good to go with that card and TMT.

Ok...not being a tech savvy as you two are, am I to understand that I can select the HD Audio track on Avatar and not miss anything versus my Oppo? Ripping/Not Ripping is a moot point since the rip is a disc image...should perform exactly as the disc.

Where did I get that I couldn't utilize the Full Bitrate available on the Lossless HD codecs then?

Regards,
Paul
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post #545 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 12:07 AM
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Hi.

I play my movies from a server with MyMovies clients.

On my HTPC with TMT5 i can't play some of my BDs, not in stand alone or i MCE.

But they play fine in TMT3. .185

I'm thinking it might has something to do with Jave, live or something, so i tried disabling it in Anydvd HD and TMT5 but doesn't change anything

What it does, is play the trailers, menu, warning but when i comes to the main movie it just stops at 0:00:00
The movies are Zombiland, Transporter 3, Wolfman and Green zone.
Also X-men Origins Wolverine does not start at all in TMT5 and works fine in TMT3

How can i resolve this? I need 5 for 3D content so i can't just use TMT3


Update: they also plays fine in HP Media smart then came with my labtop.
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post #546 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E. Fox, II View Post

Ok...not being a tech savvy as you two are, am I to understand that I can select the HD Audio track on Avatar and not miss anything versus my Oppo? Ripping/Not Ripping is a moot point since the rip is a disc image...should perform exactly as the disc.

Where did I get that I couldn't utilize the Full Bitrate available on the Lossless HD codecs then?

You've heard horrible tales of downsampling. Which you will get. That means that ALL HD sources will be downsampled to 48/16. However, you are not very likely to notice any difference in quality. MOST movies are 48/24. SOME concert discs are 96/24. On the concert discs you *MIGHT* notice a difference with the downsampling, but, it's not all that likely unless you have some pretty high end audio equipment. And as I said before, if you have that kind of equipment, dropping 50-100 bucks on a new card to do bitstreaming isn't going to seem like much. In any case, the decoder that ArcSoft uses has been beaten to death by most of us to get all the bugs worked out. It's by FAR the best decoder out there. It'll even do DTS-HD MA 7.1 properly. You're going to be fine with that card.
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post #547 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak1 View Post

Hi.

I play my movies from a server with MyMovies clients.

On my HTPC with TMT5 i can't play some of my BDs, not in stand alone or i MCE.

But they play fine in TMT3. .185

I'm thinking it might has something to do with Jave, live or something, so i tried disabling it in Anydvd HD and TMT5 but doesn't change anything

What it does, is play the trailers, menu, warning but when i comes to the main movie it just stops at 0:00:00
The movies are Zombiland, Transporter 3, Wolfman and Green zone.
Also X-men Origins Wolverine does not start at all in TMT5 and works fine in TMT3

How can i resolve this? I need 5 for 3D content so i can't just use TMT3


Update: they also plays fine in HP Media smart then came with my labtop.

This sounds very similar to what some of us are seeing with ReClock. You're not using ReClock in the chain somewhere are you? If not, this needs to be reported to ArcSoft CS. Go to their website and open an issue. I know that's a pain, but, it's our best hope of having them track this down and fixing it. If you ARE using ReClock, you may have to take it out of the chain either by uninstalling it or restoring the asaudiorenderer.dll to the original.
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post #548 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 09:29 AM
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Great deal if it actually plays BD disks. 3 quit playing them and after a couple of weeks of emailing support back and forth I gave up and just played them on my stand alone BD player.
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post #549 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

This sounds very similar to what some of us are seeing with ReClock.

I've not had a lot of time recently with work n' all. Has anyone made any progress on this one yet? You've probably seen my post on the Slysoft forums and since then I've found the issue with several other movies (mainly Dreamworks which my daughter watches.... Honestly ).

Now I have AnyDVD configured to allow me to "remove prohibited user operations" (Doh) it's not a big issue to just press chapter skip but would be nice to know what's causing it and I've hit a brick wall with my efforts.

Cheers,

Wo0zy
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post #550 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 10:26 AM
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Ok, I did a search and couldn't find this, but is there a comparison of TMT3 vs TMT5?

I love TMT3, have the Platinum edition with the SimHD (though to be fair I forgot about SimHD and haven't been playing regular DVD's through it, though will try tonight!). I haven't had a single problem playing BR's or HD-DVD's through it, granted I don't watch tons of movies.

So what does TMT5 add over TMT3? I don't have a 3D capable TV (and I'm not sure my HTPC's 8600 GS onboard video could handle it anywaY), but I'm willing to spend the money to upgrade if there are other reasons.
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post #551 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy View Post

I've not had a lot of time recently with work n' all. Has anyone made any progress on this one yet? You've probably seen my post on the Slysoft forums and since then I've found the issue with several other movies (mainly Dreamworks which my daughter watches.... Honestly ).

Now I have AnyDVD configured to allow me to "remove prohibited user operations" (Doh) it's not a big issue to just press chapter skip but would be nice to know what's causing it and I've hit a brick wall with my efforts.

Cheers,

Wo0zy

I'm getting no traction on SlySoft forum in seeing if James will look into it, so, we appear to be screwed unless ArcSoft magically comes up with a fix.
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post #552 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wo0zy View Post

I've not had a lot of time recently with work n' all. Has anyone made any progress on this one yet? You've probably seen my post on the Slysoft forums and since then I've found the issue with several other movies (mainly Dreamworks which my daughter watches.... Honestly ).

Now I have AnyDVD configured to allow me to "remove prohibited user operations" (Doh) it's not a big issue to just press chapter skip but would be nice to know what's causing it and I've hit a brick wall with my efforts.

Cheers,

Wo0zy

In most cases chapter skip worked for me as well, but I had at least one (Brooklyn's Finest) that would not allow chapter skip during previews and I just couldn't get to the menu to start playing and then use the chapter skip or scene 1 selection. I have removed ReClock from my system for the moment and everything works fine. ReClock would also crash TMT5 if I chose to not load it.

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post #553 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by HTPCat View Post

In most cases chapter skip worked for me as well, but I had at least one (Brooklyn's Finest) that would not allow chapter skip during previews and I just couldn't get to the menu to start playing and then use the chapter skip or scene 1 selection. I have removed ReClock from my system for the moment and everything works fine. ReClock would also crash TMT5 if I chose to not load it.

I have batch files to enable/disable ReClock in TMT by restoring/replacing the asaudiorenderer.dll. This works for me.
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post #554 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncarty97 View Post

Ok, I did a search and couldn't find this, but is there a comparison of TMT3 vs TMT5?

I love TMT3, have the Platinum edition with the SimHD (though to be fair I forgot about SimHD and haven't been playing regular DVD's through it, though will try tonight!). I haven't had a single problem playing BR's or HD-DVD's through it, granted I don't watch tons of movies.

So what does TMT5 add over TMT3? I don't have a 3D capable TV (and I'm not sure my HTPC's 8600 GS onboard video could handle it anywaY), but I'm willing to spend the money to upgrade if there are other reasons.

The DVD quality (I use custom SimHD settings) is *VASTLY* improved in TMT5 compared to TMT3. I'm not sure if that makes it a compelling upgrade for you or not but it is definitely an improvement.
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post #555 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E. Fox, II View Post

Ok...not being a tech savvy as you two are, am I to understand that I can select the HD Audio track on Avatar and not miss anything versus my Oppo?

Correct. First, let's start with the audio that is actually on your Avatar disc. From blu-raystats.com:

DTS-HD MA, 48 kHz, 24 bits

Your Oppo will play that exactly, so you're good there.

Your PC's audio solution maxes out at 16 bits, and 48 kHz as compared to your Oppo.

The first thing you'll notice is that the max kHz is identical to what's on your Avatar disc anyway. So nothing changes there. Your PC is fully capable of the bitrate of your movie. (This will be true of 99% of movies as mentioned previously.)

The next thing you'll notice is that the bit depth is lower on your PC. To play this, the 24 bits must be "downsampled" to 16 bits. At first you might think, "gosh, that must be bad" but it's pretty crucial to understand what the bit depth actually controls. It handles the dynamic range of the audio, not the audio quality, and while it's impossible to check on a particular disc, the dynamic range (the difference between the loudest and quietest sound) of the typical movie will fall well within what 16 bits can contain. Imagine having a gallon of water in a 10 gallon bucket. Now you transfer it into a 5 gallon bucket. Do you lose any water? No. Neither bucket is even close to being full. This is what's theoretically happening with the downsampling of 24-bit audio to 16-bits according to audio engineers. I read a post from one engineer who said it might matter if you want to be able to destroy your neighbor's eardrums with a symphony recording while still being able to hear the tuba player's nosehairs vibrating.

Quote:


Ripping/Not Ripping is a moot point since the rip is a disc i
image...should perform exactly as the disc.

Correct.

Quote:


Where did I get that I couldn't utilize the Full Bitrate available on the Lossless HD codecs then?

People talking about stuff they don't truly understand or misinterpreting something from someone who does understand why it does matter in a very isolated case (one of those rather obscure discs with higher bitrate discussed before) and making a general assumption that a) it applies more broadly than it really does and/or b) it will be more drastic than it really is.
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post #556 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

The next thing you'll notice is that the bit depth is lower on your PC. To play this, the 24 bits must be "downsampled" to 16 bits. At first you might think, "gosh, that must be bad" but it's pretty crucial to understand what the bit depth actually controls. It handles the dynamic range of the audio, not the audio quality, and while it's impossible to check on a particular disc, the dynamic range (the difference between the loudest and quietest sound) of the typical movie will fall well within what 16 bits can contain. Imagine having a gallon of water in a 10 gallon bucket. Now you transfer it into a 5 gallon bucket. Do you lose any water? No. Neither bucket is even close to being full. This is what's theoretically happening with the downsampling of 24-bit audio to 16-bits according to audio engineers. I read a post from one engineer who said it might matter if you want to be able to destroy your neighbor's eardrums with a symphony recording while still being able to hear the tuba player's nosehairs vibrating.

Should we irritate people even more and point out that a majority of the "48/24" tracks are padded to 24? Most of them are really 48/16 anyway.
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post #557 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

... The next thing you'll notice is that the bit depth is lower on your PC. To play this, the 24 bits must be "downsampled" to 16 bits. At first you might think, "gosh, that must be bad" but it's pretty crucial to understand what the bit depth actually controls. It handles the dynamic range of the audio, not the audio quality...

I'm sorry Jason, you've been very helpful in many ways here, but that is pure hogwash! Stick with what you're really experienced in....

In addition, the down-sampling is NOT required... why does Arcsoft insist on that path?

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post #558 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

I'm sorry Jason, you've been very helpful in many ways here, but that is pure hogwash! Stick with what you're really experienced in....

In addition, the down-sampling is NOT required... why does Arcsoft insist on that path?

It's not hogwash. And it's not ArcSoft that insists on downsampling. Take it up with the AACS LA. Or get an "approved" device with PAP. All the commercial players are in the same boat on that one, and the blame should be placed where it belongs. They risk having their license pulled if they don't comply.
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post #559 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:28 AM
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Okay, aren't the XONAR HDAV, ATI 5XXX & 6XXX and nVidia 4XX series, with PAP, approved devices? So why must decoded HI-DEF audio be downsampled?

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post #560 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

Okay, aren't the XONAR HDAV, ATI 5XXX & 6XXX and nVidia 4XX series, with PAP, approved devices? So why must decoded HI-DEF audio be downsampled?

It doesn't with those devices. We weren't discussing any of those. We were talking about a 4670, which is NOT PAP approved.
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post #561 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

This sounds very similar to what some of us are seeing with ReClock. You're not using ReClock in the chain somewhere are you? If not, this needs to be reported to ArcSoft CS. Go to their website and open an issue. I know that's a pain, but, it's our best hope of having them track this down and fixing it. If you ARE using ReClock, you may have to take it out of the chain either by uninstalling it or restoring the asaudiorenderer.dll to the original.

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not even sure what ReClock does, other then what i found on a quick google search. I see it has something to do with Slysoft/Anydvd HD. I use Anydvd HD and Virtuel clone drive from Slysoft, but i haven't installed ReClock unless it is installed together with any of those programs?
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post #562 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Freak1 View Post

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not even sure what ReClock does, other then what i found on a quick google search. I see it has something to do with Slysoft/Anydvd HD. I use Anydvd HD and Virtuel clone drive from Slysoft, but i haven't installed ReClock unless it is installed together with any of those programs?

Nope, it's not. So, you're having this issue without ReClock installed. Well, I actually consider that a good thing. Not that you're having problems, of course! But at least if ReClock isn't in the chain ArcSoft is responsible for looking into this with you and fixing it. Please open a ticket with ArcSoft CS for this issue and see what they say. Thanks and good luck!!
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post #563 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 01:35 PM
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I am having an issue with getting TMT 5 to launch within Windows 7 Media Center when I am trying to watch a blu ray that is ripped to the hard drive.

If I launch TMT 5 by itself if works great. Plays blu ray movies from the blu ray drive and from the hard disk.

I just built a new HTPC following the newb tutorial on this site.

I installed:
-Media Center Master (Download Art)
-TotalMedia Theatre 5
-AnyDVD
-Media Browser

I have mixed results using TMT 5 in 7MC.
  • If I use Media Browser to play DVD: Works fine and plays in media center
  • If I go to the TMT 5 Tab in Media center blu ray movies play within the media center interface. I can only play blu ray movies from the blu ray drive, but otherwise works as expected.
  • If I use Media Browser to play blu ray ripped to the hard drive, it launches the external TMT 5 player (not the in media center player), the movie plays, but when player is closed it crashes I cannot use MB to launch another blu ray. When I try, it goes to the TotalMedia Theatre tab in media center and displays the blu ray drive device. No movie plays.


Am I missing a setting somewhere, perhaps in Media Browser, that should be telling the blu rays to launch within media center using TMT 5?

Thanks
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post #564 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

I'm sorry Jason, you've been very helpful in many ways here, but that is pure hogwash!

If you're going to claim something like this please be more specific about what's "pure hogwash" and what you believe the accurate alternative is. I'm distilling a lot of info from a lot of people much smarter than I in regards to audio down to simple terms and it's certainly possible I've misunderstood something, or an important bit is lost in translation.

But if you're saying the whole thing in total is innaccurate in regards to this person's precise situation, or in general, I believe you are mistaken.

Quote:
In addition, the down-sampling is NOT required... why does Arcsoft insist on that path?

We don't insist on anything. We are required by our Blu-ray license to downsample Blu-ray HD audio to a maximum of 48khz/16-bit on any audio path that does not meet the PAP requirement. We do that. If we chose not to, we lose our Blu-ray license, our associated decryption key, and can't play Blu-ray at all.

This user has hardware that does not meet the PAP requirements, thus his PC is not capable (at this time--he could always buy new PAP-capable hardware which is what he's considering.)

I'm not sure what in there you could reasonably dispute to think the answer to this question would somehow prove my prior post is "hogwash". But I'm curious to hear your interpretation.
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post #565 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 02:41 PM
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dexbot, what I did was...

Run the Media Browser Configurator and select "advanced". In the "external players" tab, select "Add", "BluRay", and "Select Player". Then navigate to;

C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ArcSoft\\TotalMedia Theatre 5\\uMCEPlayer5.exe.

The result was TMT5 opening in a window (versus full screen). But I found a fairly easy workaround for that. Find it here.

You could also set up TMT5 as an external player for DVDs.
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post #566 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tehowell View Post

dexbot, what I did was...

Run the Media Browser Configurator and select "advanced". In the "external players" tab, select "Add", "BluRay", and "Select Player". Then navigate to;

C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ArcSoft\\TotalMedia Theatre 5\\uMCEPlayer5.exe.

The result was TMT5 opening in a window (versus full screen). But I found a fairly easy workaround for that. Find it here.

You could also set up TMT5 as an external player for DVDs.

Thank you for your reply.

TMT5 actually not opening at all now. (must have been some changes earlier)

I click on the blu ray in media browser, and the screen flickers, then returns to the media browser page. Previously the movie would be playing in the background behind 7MC, but now it is just not working at all.

This is a trial version of TMT5. Does that matter?

I guess I will try to reinstall TMT5 and see if that helps
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post #567 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tehowell View Post

dexbot, what I did was...

Run the Media Browser Configurator and select "advanced". In the "external players" tab, select "Add", "BluRay", and "Select Player". Then navigate to;

C:\\Program Files (x86)\\ArcSoft\\TotalMedia Theatre 5\\uMCEPlayer5.exe.

The result was TMT5 opening in a window (versus full screen). But I found a fairly easy workaround for that. Find it here.

You could also set up TMT5 as an external player for DVDs.


OK. I can play Blu Rays from disk as expected if I set Media Browser to use uTotalMediaTheatre5.exe to open the files. Full screen works. The remote even works!


However I cannot get movies to play using the uMCEPlayer5.exe. It does launch, but it doesn't play a movie and only shows the blu ray drive.

I guess that is no big deal if I can figure out how to close TMT5 with the remote. I have a Harmony One, so I should be able to come up with something. I was hoping the exit key worked, but it does not =(

Thanks
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post #568 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 03:49 PM
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Two possibilities.

1. Some drive paths were not parsed correctly in the release build. A hotfix was released shortly thereafter and is available from ArcSoft customer service or on the ArcSoft TMT forum. If you haven't installed this, you may need to.

2. The trial version dialog interferes with the remote launching process. (No clue if this is a real concern never having tried the trial version, but it theoretically could be. In that case, you might just need to take it on faith from full version users that it works for them in their similar environments.)
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post #569 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dexbot View Post

I guess that is no big deal if I can figure out how to close TMT5 with the remote. I have a Harmony One, so I should be able to come up with something. I was hoping the exit key worked, but it does not =(

Thanks

Yay! Everything is working!

I figured out how to configure the Harmony One remote to exit TMT5 and return to media center.

I had initially created a device in my Harmony Software as Media Center PC>Microsoft> Windows Media Center
But I needed to add the device like this:
PC>Microsoft>Windows Media Center SE

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Harmon...our/m-p/374844

I was then able to send the CTRL+X Command to the TMT5 and get it to stop playing and close the program. Once the program closes, the 7MC interface returns and works normally.

So I created a command sequence, and set the sequence to the exit button on my remote. The sequence I made was, step 1: Return, step 2: CTRL+X

Apparently 7MC does not have any commands mapped to CTRL+X so it just ignores the extra command.

Now the Exit key on my remote works in TMT5! And it also works normally in 7MC. There is a little flash of the desktop as 7MC minimizes and TMT5 starts up and again when TMT5 closes and 7MC maximizes, but it is not to bad considering this is working really nicely from my couch.

Thanks for the help!
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post #570 of 3703 Old 12-21-2010, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

Correct. First, let's start with the audio that is actually on your Avatar disc. From blu-raystats.com:

DTS-HD MA, 48 kHz, 24 bits

Your Oppo will play that exactly, so you're good there.

Your PC's audio solution maxes out at 16 bits, and 48 kHz as compared to your Oppo.

The first thing you'll notice is that the max kHz is identical to what's on your Avatar disc anyway. So nothing changes there. Your PC is fully capable of the bitrate of your movie. (This will be true of 99% of movies as mentioned previously.)

The next thing you'll notice is that the bit depth is lower on your PC. To play this, the 24 bits must be "downsampled" to 16 bits. At first you might think, "gosh, that must be bad" but it's pretty crucial to understand what the bit depth actually controls. It handles the dynamic range of the audio, not the audio quality, and while it's impossible to check on a particular disc, the dynamic range (the difference between the loudest and quietest sound) of the typical movie will fall well within what 16 bits can contain. Imagine having a gallon of water in a 10 gallon bucket. Now you transfer it into a 5 gallon bucket. Do you lose any water? No. Neither bucket is even close to being full. This is what's theoretically happening with the downsampling of 24-bit audio to 16-bits according to audio engineers. I read a post from one engineer who said it might matter if you want to be able to destroy your neighbor's eardrums with a symphony recording while still being able to hear the tuba player's nosehairs vibrating.



Correct.



People talking about stuff they don't truly understand or misinterpreting something from someone who does understand why it does matter in a very isolated case (one of those rather obscure discs with higher bitrate discussed before) and making a general assumption that a) it applies more broadly than it really does and/or b) it will be more drastic than it really is.

Wow...there is some useful information in these posts...very useful. I've had this HTPC for a little over a year and this is the simplest explanation of "The Downsampling Issue" I've read yet. Again, thank you for taking the time to educate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

Should we irritate people even more and point out that a majority of the "48/24" tracks are padded to 24? Most of them are really 48/16 anyway.

Well...why not? We seem to have opened the can of worms...we may as well throw them all over the place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

If you're going to claim something like this please be more specific about what's "pure hogwash" and what you believe the accurate alternative is. I'm distilling a lot of info from a lot of people much smarter than I in regards to audio down to simple terms and it's certainly possible I've misunderstood something, or an important bit is lost in translation.

But if you're saying the whole thing in total is innaccurate in regards to this person's precise situation, or in general, I believe you are mistaken.



We don't insist on anything. We are required by our Blu-ray license to downsample Blu-ray HD audio to a maximum of 48khz/16-bit on any audio path that does not meet the PAP requirement. We do that. If we chose not to, we lose our Blu-ray license, our associated decryption key, and can't play Blu-ray at all.

This user has hardware that does not meet the PAP requirements, thus his PC is not capable (at this time--he could always buy new PAP-capable hardware which is what he's considering.)

I'm not sure what in there you could reasonably dispute to think the answer to this question would somehow prove my prior post is "hogwash". But I'm curious to hear your interpretation.

Ok...here is where I fall off the wagon again. Now that you have educated me on Downsampling...let's say I decide to go ahead and buy the GTS-450 to replace my older 4670. Is that PAP-capable or am I still looking at getting a dedicated audio device if I decide to travel down that slippery slope?

Regards,
Paul
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