Assassin's Simple/Beginner HTPC Buying Guide - Page 421 - AVS Forum
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post #12601 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiedread View Post

Also, buck fiddy for a 3TB... I can't speak for or against this line of Seagate... the WD Green is a buck eighty...

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-FreeAg...4752906&sr=1-2

Any opinions on this? I think it's a 7200 RPM drive as I don't think Seagate has any 'Green' Drives.
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post #12602 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 10:58 AM
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Seagate does indeed have 5900 rpm green drives.
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post #12603 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post


Any opinions on this? I think it's a 7200 RPM drive as I don't think Seagate has any 'Green' Drives.

It is a great drive. The 7200rpm seagate is one of the very fastest and highest performing hdd's

It's way better than a WD green.

FYI newegg has them retail box internals for 159$ After coupon code now.

Might make sense with free shipping for some since it comes fully warranty without having void by cracking open external case.

PM me if you need code

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post #12604 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


It is a great drive. The 7200rpm seagate is one of the very fastest and highest performing hdd's

It's way better than a WD green.

FYI newegg has them retail box internals for 159$ After coupon code now.

Might make sense with free shipping for some since it comes fully warranty without having void by cracking open external case.

PM me if you need code

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ile-_-22148844

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post #12605 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

It is a great drive. The 7200rpm seagate is one of the very fastest and highest performing hdd's

It's way better than a WD green.

FYI newegg has them retail box internals for 159$ After coupon code now.

Might make sense with free shipping for some since it comes fully warranty without having void by cracking open external case.

PM me if you need code

I don't like 7200 RPM drives at all for HTPC. No point. Extra noise and heat (and potentially wear) at absolutely no benefit.

Sure you can transfer data faster but who cares? For playback a Green drive can stream 5 HD streams without breaking a sweat.


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post #12606 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I don't like 7200 RPM drives at all for HTPC. No point. Extra noise and heat (and potentially wear) at absolutely no benefit.

Sure you can transfer data faster but who cares? For playback a Green drive can stream 5 HD streams without breaking a sweat.

For only storage of movies I guess your right.

But as an all around drive for music and programs and files then my opinion changes.

The greens are good only at energy saving. They suck for performance and speed.

You also can't use them for RAID hardware.

Plus. The 7200rpm Seagate is $159 free shipping. Cheaper than WD green

I own 2TB green EARS and EARX and also a 3TB green too.

I am not biased but when buying storage I look first at price.

The difference in energy saved over next couple years will never add up to the price difference of the two drives. Once that is determined I would rather have the higher performance over the next few years while using it.

In a typical home PC or home Server it is unlikely to be spinning all the time or used heavy 24/7.

The difference in wattage is minimal between them. The Seagates don't exactly run "hot" either.

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post #12607 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I don't like 7200 RPM drives at all for HTPC. No point. Extra noise and heat (and potentially wear) at absolutely no benefit.

Sure you can transfer data faster but who cares? For playback a Green drive can stream 5 HD streams without breaking a sweat.

I'd be fine with a Green Drive, especially since all I own are WD's and they've been great for me. My problem is I can't find any 3TB WD drives that are cheaper than that. I saw you posted you got one for 120 a while ago but I haven't seen anything near that cheap.
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post #12608 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:37 AM
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1232-page4.html

Good review of the 3TB seagate from site that cares about power consumption , heat and noise.

It's the fastest 7200rpm they ever tested and has environmental advantages over most 7200rpm drives.

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post #12609 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

For only storage of movies I guess your right.

But as an all around drive for music and programs and files then my opinion changes.

The greens are good only at energy saving. They suck for performance and speed.

You also can't use them for RAID hardware.

Plus. The 7200rpm Seagate is $159 free shipping. Cheaper than WD green

I own 2TB green EARS and EARX and also a 3TB green too.

I am not biased but when buying storage I look first at price.

The difference in energy saved over next couple years will never add up to the price difference of the two drives. Once that is determined I would rather have the higher performance over the next few years while using it.

In a typical home PC or home Server it is unlikely to be spinning all the time or used heavy 24/7.

The difference in wattage is minimal between them. The Seagates don't exactly run "hot" either.

I have all green drives in my server. I don't know what you mean by "performance". There really isn't much to playing back a movie.

BTW I have consistently been able to get WD/Samsung 2 TB drives for $90-$110 even with the flood prices. And I just got a Seagate 3TB 7200 external (actually using it as an external to backup some things) for $121 shipped.

I want them for the decreased noise, decreased heat, potentially longer lifespan and to a lesser degree energy savings. And yes, there is a difference as you can see here.

Just imaging multiplying that by 5-10 fold when you have a bunch of drives. It makes a difference. Remember this is HTPC --- not PC and you have to tailor your parts to fit this need.

Also take a look at some of the scores with the newer 2TB green drives. I think you will be surprised. They are impressive for HTPC use.





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post #12610 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post


I'd be fine with a Green Drive, especially since all I own are WD's and they've been great for me. My problem is I can't find any 3TB WD drives that are cheaper than that. I saw you posted you got one for 120 a while ago but I haven't seen anything near that cheap.

Get the Seagate if you can't find a deal on a GREEN. Don't pay extra for less performance.

It will take years and years to recoup energy cost savings while suffering with lower performance along the way.

Three years of difference in power consumption is nothing in costs.

At full tilt seek mode the power consumption difference is probably 3 watts. That's nothing. And how often are you even using it in that manner ?

They are all under 10 watts now..

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post #12611 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1232-page4.html

Good review of the 3TB seagate from site that cares about power consumption , heat and noise.

It's the fastest 7200rpm they ever tested and has environmental advantages over most 7200rpm drives.

Isn't a 3dB difference roughly twice as loud to the human ear? I think it is.

Quote:


Seagate Barracuda 3TB ST3000DM001 Idle: 16 / Seek: 16~17 dBA@1m
Desktop 5,400~5,900 RPM Hard Drive Comparatives:

Hitachi Deskstar 5K3000 2TB HDS5C3020ALA632 Idle: 14~15 / Seek: 15 dBA@1m
Samsung EcoGreen F3 2TB HD203WI Idle: 16 / Seek: 18~19 dBA@1m
Samsung EcoGreen F4 2TB HD204UI Idle: 13 / Seek: 15 dBA@1m
Seagate Barracuda Green 2TB ST2000DL003 Idle: 14~15 / Seek: 17~18 dBA@1m
Seagate Barracuda LP 2TB ST32000542AS Idle: 15 / Seek: 17 dBA@1m
Western Digital Caviar Green 1.5TB WD15EADS Idle: 13 / Seek (AAM/Normal): 14 dBA@1m
Western Digital Caviar Green 2TB WD20EADS Idle: 13 / Seek (AAM): 13 / Seek: 13~14 dBA@1m

They also didn't test the temperature but a faster drive is bound to make more heat. Again, multiply this by 5-10 drives and it makes a difference.

I still don't see a reason to pick 7200RPM storage drives over 5400RPM storage drives ever for HTPC. Where are you using the "extra performance"? Certainly not for playback which is what you are doing 99.9% of the time in most HTPCs and servers.


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post #12612 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:45 AM
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Assassin I am on my phone.. And can't see the images you linked. I will look later.

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post #12613 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

suffering with lower performance along the way.

I disagree with your advice here. There is no such thing as "lower performance" in this setting with HTPC.

Its like getting a Corvette for use only in a 35 MPH zone. You are getting less gas mileage, more heat and more noise for no added gain at all.


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post #12614 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

I'd be fine with a Green Drive, especially since all I own are WD's and they've been great for me. My problem is I can't find any 3TB WD drives that are cheaper than that. I saw you posted you got one for 120 a while ago but I haven't seen anything near that cheap.

Okay okay okay. I will tell you how.

Go here or here. They are currently OOS but they come in stock all the time.

Then buy a $25 off $100 or $25 off $75 coupon code from e-Junkie for about $1.50 (they send it to your instantly).

Use that to get the Seagate 3TB for about $115 before tax (free delivery).


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post #12615 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is some more information...

Transferring large files (which is what you are likely doing that other 0.1% when you aren't playing back video. You aren't opening programs with your storage drives so small file speed, which is where the 7200RPM do have improved performance, really isn't applicable)

So 86% as good write speed and and 85% as good read speed.

And remember this is only applicable for that 0.1% of the time that you are transferring large HD Movies, for example, from drive to drive. Otherwise you are doing playback which as I have stated (and proved in an independent review at About.com of one of my machines) you can easily stream at least 5 HD video files with a green hard drive simultaneously.



This is a pretty good summary as well...

Quote:


Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green – The Best Selling 2TB Hard Drive

If you’re one of those enthusiast who always in needs of huge disk space for your treasured files, the Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green is perfect for your massive storage requirements. This drive is the coolest, quietest and lowest power consumption of all drives in our lineup. A cool and quiet drive means a longer lifespan, this makes it ideal for data storage.

What Is It In The WD 2TB Caviar Green Hard Drive?

The Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green runs at 5,400rpm with SATA II 3GB/s interface. It uses the same 4 platters having 500GB each. This drive is quiet; it doesn’t produce that loud annoying sound. The noise level is only at 24dB at idle and a maximum of 29dB during read/write operations.

It consumes relatively less power which is good for energy savvy, 5.5W at idle, only 6W during read/write operations and 0.8W for sleep/standby. This drive is also cool; the temp ranges from 5 to 60 Degrees Celsius. With all of these features, comes the idea behind a green hard drive.

The Western Digital 2TB Caviar Green is not a fast drive, not a hungry for speed stuff but rather a perfect backup storage. This drive is excellent for office and HTPC applications, also great for external drive. It is best when combined with the super fast SSD as your boot drive and the Caviar Green would be your secondary drive. Another perfect application for this drive is for Network Attached Storage (NAS).



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post #12616 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 12:17 PM
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Does Windows Media Center have anything similar to the iPad XBMC Constellation app?

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post #12617 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Does Windows Media Center have anything similar to the iPad XBMC Constellation app?

No.


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post #12618 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 12:20 PM
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[quote=assassin;21922895]Okay okay okay. I will tell you how.

Go here or here. They are currently OOS but they come in stock all the time.

Then buy a $25 off $100 or $25 off $75 coupon code from e-Junkie for about $1.50 (they send it to your instantly).

Use that to get the Seagate 3TB for about $115 before tax (free delivery).[/QUOTE

what do you think about those hard drive are they reliably?
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post #12619 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by femi View Post

what do you think about those hard drive are they reliably?

Yes, I think they are fine. Again, not my first choice as I prefer 5400 RPM drives for storage for HTPC.


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post #12620 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Try running one of those avi files through handbrake. Will it play now?

Ran the file through handbrake and transcoded it to MKV/H264/AC3 and it plays fine. I've tried the file on my laptop which doesn't have the Shark007 codec pack and it plays ok (I've installed the codecs individually as per other parts of your guide). This makes me think it's a setting somewhere that I've missed relating to playback of AC3 audio in AVI files (I have other AVI files with XVid video and MP3 audio which play fine).

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post #12621 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ran the file through handbrake and transcoded it to MKV/H264/AC3 and it plays fine. I've tried the file on my laptop which doesn't have the Shark007 codec pack and it plays ok (I've installed the codecs individually as per other parts of your guide). This makes me think it's a setting somewhere that I've missed relating to playback of AC3 audio in AVI files (I have other AVI files with XVid video and MP3 audio which play fine).

I think its a poorly ripped file. LAV is a little picky about which AVI containers it likes --- especially if they are poorly ripped or muxed. I have found that this is usually related to the audio mux/demux and after running it through handbrake it confirms this.

How many of those AVI files do you have? Were they downloaded?

Consider just running them all through Handbrake. You can queue them all up and let er rip.


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post #12622 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I think its a poorly ripped file. LAV is a little picky about which AVI containers it likes --- especially if they are poorly ripped or muxed. I have found that this is usually related to the audio mux/demux and after running it through handbrake it confirms this.

How many of those AVI files do you have? Were they downloaded?

Consider just running them all through Handbrake. You can queue them all up and let er rip.

It wouldn't surprise me that they were poorly ripped as they were downloaded. They consist of all Game of Thrones episodes and a Twilight movie (I could do without Twilight but I need to maintain WAF

Would running the avi through mkvmerge instead of handbrake to remux them fix the problem or do the files need to be transcoded? It's going to be a lot quicker using mkvmerge.

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post #12623 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kesawi View Post

It wouldn't surprise me that they were poorly ripped as they were downloaded. They consist of all Game of Thrones episodes and a Twilight movie (I could do without Twilight but I need to maintain WAF

Would running the avi through mkvmerge instead of handbrake to remux them fix the problem or do the files need to be transcoded? It's going to be a lot quicker using mkvmerge.

MKVMerge does not remux the file, it simply writes the file into an MKV container. If you have a messed up AVI file, and convert to MKV, it will result in a messed up MKV file.
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post #12624 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 05:35 PM
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post #12625 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I disagree with your advice here. There is no such thing as "lower performance" in this setting with HTPC.

Its like getting a Corvette for use only in a 35 MPH zone. You are getting less gas mileage, more heat and more noise for no added gain at all.

Ok. Your right and I will agree.

for pure HTPC and movie storage inside a HTPC then a green drive is the way to go provided it does not cost extra.

But, if I find a cheaper drive by more than $10 then all bets are off And if your using it for OS, or storage of MP3 and programs.. then the performance hit is significant. I would not run or install an programs on a green drive.
I built my friend a HTPC with a green drive as the OS. A WD 2TB green. On Arock, 8GB DDR3, and i3 2100 CPU. It was slow as dirt. I mean slow.. slow... slow... It was totally a terrible hunk of horribleness. Just updating it and installing a few programs I wanted to kill myself. Green = storage only IMO.

I think that 3TB Seagate external is actually a 5400rpm btw...


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I went with this Mushkin ..................$120 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details


You first SSD???

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post #12626 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Glad you came around.

BTW I was wrong on the dB. A 3dB increase is a doubling of power.

A 10dB increase is roughly a doubling of loudness as perceived by the human ear.

But with 5-10 hard drives at 3dB difference each that adds up to quite a bit of noise (potentially).


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post #12627 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You first SSD???

Yeah ..Why something wrong with that one ??

cause if there is speak up ! while I can still cancel the order ...

Mike

JAZZ IS NOT DEAD IT JUST SMELLS FUNNY ; FRANK ZAPPA
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post #12628 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 06:13 PM
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I went with this Mushkin ..................$120 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details

I have this exact drive in my HTPC for about 3 weeks now. No issues. Just works. Bought another one today along with the 3TB Seagate 7200 RPM for my desktop replacement. I'm finally getting around to building a new desktop since my current one is 8 years old.
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post #12629 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 06:15 PM
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Yeah ..Why something wrong with that one ??

cause if there is speak up ! while I can still cancel the order ...

No no...

I was wondering if you ever had one or not.

If it's your first- congrats. You will like it.

Big difference. report back your thoughts after using it.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #12630 of 15967 Old 04-18-2012, 06:23 PM
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No no...

I was wondering if you ever had one or not.

If it's your first- congrats. You will like it.

Big difference. report back your thoughts after using it.


haven;t built a PC in 5 years & SSD's were a pipe dream back then

Soo yeah i popped my SSD cherry

thought $120 was a good deal for a Mushkin ?

Mike

JAZZ IS NOT DEAD IT JUST SMELLS FUNNY ; FRANK ZAPPA
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