Assassin's Simple/Beginner HTPC Buying Guide - Page 434 - AVS Forum
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post #12991 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 02:17 PM
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Yikes, I didn't realize Intel had a problem with 23.976. My current TV (LG) is extremely sensitive to frame rate in cinema mode and it makes me a little crazy.

How do you feel about my ATI 5570 in a new build. I prefer software decoding in LAV so it seems to me the CPU is what's most important right? I'm leaning towards an i5-3570k to future proof it for a good while. I suppose I could try Intel graphics and if it's a problem try my 5570 and if it's still a problem get a better card.
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post #12992 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMGNYC View Post

Yikes, I didn't realize Intel had a problem with 23.976. My current TV (LG) is extremely sensitive to frame rate in cinema mode and it makes me a little crazy.

How do you feel about my ATI 5570 in a new build. I prefer software decoding in LAV so it seems to me the CPU is what's most important right? I'm leaning towards an i5-3570k to future proof it for a good while. I suppose I could try Intel graphics and if it's a problem try my 5570 and if it's still a problem get a better card.

They all have a problem with 23.976.
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post #12993 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simmons View Post

Would the ASUS P8Z77-M PRO be a good and logical replacement for the ASUS P8Z68-M Pro mobo in the guide if the goal was to go with an i3 Ivy bridge CPU down the road?

I have 2 of the P8Z77-V Deluxe setting up as HTPC right now , Very Nice MoBo's, a hoard of Cool features , dual WiFi & Bluetooth on board .. the WiFi can be set-up as a WiFi Hot Spot....

Mike

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post #12994 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 03:18 PM
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Let me clarify my last post- I have two options for my motherboard/cpu combo in a server and HTPC I am building:

Option 1:
HTPC
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-M Pro
CPU: i3-2125

Server
Motherboard: SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O
CPU: i3-2100

Option 2:
HTPC
Motherboard:Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H or Gigabyte GA-Z77MX-D3H
CPU: i5-3570K

Server
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-M Pro
CPU: i3-2100

Basically looking to see if the Asus P8Z68 will be effective for a server motherboard in order to take advantage of getting the Ivy for my HTPC. I already have the Asus board so I need to use it in one or the other.

I have never built a server before so I am unaware if "regular" motherboards will be fine in it, or if I need a server specific board. Please consider the fact that I will be putting in two Sata controller cards (Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 8-port) to eventually fill up 20 drives and running WHS/Flexraid. Transcoding will also be done by the server to my phone/remote laptop.
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post #12995 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

They all have a problem with 23.976.

So true but my 5570 gets me a lot closer - 23.9771. madVR usually says the frame drop interval is longer than the movie and not every 2 minutes or whatever.

What do you think of upgrading my 5570? Is it worth it for software decoding in LAV?
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post #12996 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMGNYC View Post

So true but my 5570 gets me a lot closer - 23.9771. madVR usually says the frame drop interval is longer than the movie and not every 2 minutes or whatever.

What do you think of upgrading my 5570? Is it worth it for software decoding in LAV?

Try the igpu first. It gets as close as many of the discrete cards and there is no guarantee that an upgraded card will be better.
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post #12997 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanndogg View Post

Let me clarify my last post- I have two options for my motherboard/cpu combo in a server and HTPC I am building:

Option 1:
HTPC
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-M Pro
CPU: i3-2125

Server
Motherboard: SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O
CPU: i3-2100

Option 2:
HTPC
Motherboard:Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H or Gigabyte GA-Z77MX-D3H
CPU: i5-3570K

Server
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-M Pro
CPU: i3-2100

Basically looking to see if the Asus P8Z68 will be effective for a server motherboard in order to take advantage of getting the Ivy for my HTPC. I already have the Asus board so I need to use it in one or the other.

I have never built a server before so I am unaware if "regular" motherboards will be fine in it, or if I need a server specific board. Please consider the fact that I will be putting in two Sata controller cards (Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 8-port) to eventually fill up 20 drives and running WHS/Flexraid. Transcoding will also be done by the server to my phone/remote laptop.

Z68 will make a fine server board.

I am using a g530 in my server and it transcodes perfectly.
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post #12998 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 04:17 PM
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Why i5 for the HTPC again?

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post #12999 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Why i5 for the HTPC again?

Least expensive Ivy out right now.
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post #13000 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 05:35 PM
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Anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdlive View Post

I have this WMC HTPC configuration when watching live TV throgh ceton infinitv pci card.

HTPC -> HDMI -> TV (for display)
HTPC -> Optical -> Receiver (for sound)

Sometimes we tune to music channels and would like to listen without the need for the TV display.

The problem that I'm getting is that as soon as I turn the TV off, the optical sound goes out too. There should be a a way to listen to the live TV sound even if you are not using any TV display right?

Thanks!

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post #13001 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bdlive View Post

Anyone?

Go into your power settings and see if there is a setting there for keeping the HTPC awake when you turn off the display.
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post #13002 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanndogg View Post

Let me clarify my last post- I have two options for my motherboard/cpu combo in a server and HTPC I am building:

Option 1:
HTPC
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-M Pro
CPU: i3-2125

Server
Motherboard: SUPERMICRO MBD-X9SCM-F-O
CPU: i3-2100

Option 2:
HTPC
Motherboard:Gigabyte GA-Z77M-D3H or Gigabyte GA-Z77MX-D3H
CPU: i5-3570K

Server
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z68-M Pro
CPU: i3-2100

Basically looking to see if the Asus P8Z68 will be effective for a server motherboard in order to take advantage of getting the Ivy for my HTPC. I already have the Asus board so I need to use it in one or the other.

I have never built a server before so I am unaware if "regular" motherboards will be fine in it, or if I need a server specific board. Please consider the fact that I will be putting in two Sata controller cards (Supermicro AOC-SAS2LP-MV8 8-port) to eventually fill up 20 drives and running WHS/Flexraid. Transcoding will also be done by the server to my phone/remote laptop.

Nothing wrong is Asus Z68 PRO. It's a nice board. It would work fine for a server or for HTPC. It's pretty solid all around. Tough to beat it up or find better. It's better than Gigabyte for sure IMO.

If your putting in SATA cards you should look for a board with good PCI lanes and controllers to maximize throughput.

Any board will work fine but a board with more/faster PCI lanes and superior controller will allow faster speeds potentially. But then again, Drives are pretty slow so it might not matter much depending on how your planning on using it.

I would look for a CPU with Intel graphics. Like 2000, 3000, 4000 etc... That's probably most important in a HTPC over raw core speed. At the i3 level they are all plenty fast for a HTPC.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #13003 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 07:20 PM
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Bought a license for MetaBrowser... going to be giving it a trial run over the next few days, using it as my fetcher, instead of Media Center Master. I've noticed MCM really bogging down and getting a little buggy the past week or two with some updates. CPU utilization was going way higher than it normally does.

I will report back.
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post #13004 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thefever View Post

Bought a license for MetaBrowser... going to be giving it a trial run over the next few days, using it as my fetcher, instead of Media Center Master. I've noticed MCM really bogging down and getting a little buggy the past week or two with some updates. CPU utilization was going way higher than it normally does.

I will report back.

I would be interested in the report back.

PM me if you can a copy paste or link the reply.

I like mediamaster but wondering what you thoughts are.

The CPU does not seem an issue for me- (but my CPU is probably a bit more powerful i7 with 4.5ghz turbo boost setting)

But I am concerned with stability (mine sometimes crashes) and overall speed and accuracy and ease of use.

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post #13005 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 08:44 PM
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Mine crashes at least every two days.
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post #13006 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Z68 will make a fine server board.

I am using a g530 in my server and it transcodes perfectly.

Excellent, thank you for confirming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Why i5 for the HTPC again?

In addition to it being the least expensive Ivy out right now as Assassin said, I can get the combo of the 3570K w/motherboard for only $50 more than an i3-2125 w/Z68 board (at least based on the prices for the models I am considering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Nothing wrong is Asus Z68 PRO. It's a nice board. It would work fine for a server or for HTPC. It's pretty solid all around. Tough to beat it up or find better. It's better than Gigabyte for sure IMO.

Thanks for the input on the Z68 for my server. For the HTPC, I could actually try to have Fry's price match Microcenter which would get me a Asus P8H77-M Pro to go with the 3570K for about $10 more. Or, I could wait for the ASRock Z77 Pro-4M to get back in stock at MC. The most important thing was to confirm the Z68 for server so I can start building that over the weekend.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the HTPC motherboard options (Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Asus P8H77 -M Pro, or ASRock Z77 Pro4M), or why you think Gigabyte isn't that great. Of the three, only the ASRock is currently listed in the guide so I am curious about the other two possibilities.
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post #13007 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanndogg View Post

In addition to it being the least expensive Ivy out right now as Assassin said, I can get the combo of the 3570K w/motherboard for only $50 more than an i3-2125 w/Z68 board (at least based on the prices for the models I am considering.

Thanks for the input on the Z68 for my server. For the HTPC, I could actually try to have Fry's price match Microcenter which would get me a Asus P8H77-M Pro to go with the 3570K for about $10 more. Or, I could wait for the ASRock Z77 Pro-4M to get back in stock at MC. The most important thing was to confirm the Z68 for server so I can start building that over the weekend.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the HTPC motherboard options (Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Asus P8H77 -M Pro, or ASRock Z77 Pro4M), or why you think Gigabyte isn't that great. Of the three, only the ASRock is currently listed in the guide so I am curious about the other two possibilities.

Well, being an early adopter of the new 77 platform it's probably in your best interest to go Asus out of the gate.

There is little doubt the performance is a bit higher than the other MFG's due to an extended period of testing Asus had to develop them as they partnered with Intel and used Intel white papers in many design facets.

Asrock is generally my second favorite. I have an ExtremeZ68 +G630 for my HTPC and love it. My main PC is a Z68 Asus Deluxe Gen3 + 2600k

The Asrocks are solid- Cheap- Reliable- and perform well. They also reboot quickly.

But for 77 - Asrock is a bit behind Asus just like other MFG's. However, this is more indicative of a larger issue regarding certain options that motherboard manufacturers are implementing to appear to be better in multithreaded scenarios. It boils down to how each manufacturer implements turbo modes. So there is a big chance we will see these ‘tweaks’ being implemented on future BIOSes across all the motherboard manufacturers, including ASRock.

Fresh out of the box- right now today- The Asus is going to perform higher than an Asrock or a gigabyte due to the way it uses the turbo boost on the Intel CPU's- and Asus clearly has the best memory controller of the bunch.

Not sure either of these matter in a HTPC- but for a gaming or workstation- it might.

It's likely the others might copy and catch up to Asus - particuarly on the issue of TURBO BOOST APPLICATION.

In terms of features, by default ASUS has a setting to give a ‘MultiCore Enhancement’. In the real world, this means that by default ASUS will overclock your processor to its maximum turbo mode no matter what the CPU load. For comparison with the 3770K, the CPU should be at 39x during single and dual core mode, 38x when using three cores, and 37x under full load. Using MultiCore Enhancement, you get 39x on all cores no matter what the load. Therefore, in multithreaded benchmark suite, ASUS has a 200 MHz advantage per core over other products that do not enable this feature by default.


Another area Asus is superior is DPC Latency

Deferred Procedure Call latency is a way in which Windows handles interrupt servicing. In order to wait for a processor to acknowledge the request, the system will queue all interrupt requests by priority. Critical interrupts will be handled as soon as possible, whereas lesser priority requests, such as audio, will be further down the line. Therefore, if the audio device requires data, it will have to wait until the request is processed before the buffer is filled. If the device drivers of higher priority components in a system are poorly implemented, this can cause delays in request scheduling and process time, resulting in an empty audio buffer – this leads to characteristic audible pauses, pops and clicks. Having a bigger buffer and correctly implemented system drivers obviously helps in this regard. The DPC latency checker measures how much time is processing DPCs from driver invocation – the lower the value will result in better audio transfer at smaller buffer sizes. Results are measured in microseconds and taken as the peak latency while cycling through a series of short HD videos - less than 500 microseconds usually gets the green light, but the lower the better.





Bottom line is a Z77 Asus can overclock an unlocked CPU to 4.7ghz or higher without trying... and it's superior memory controller will hit 3000mhz with good memory with little issue.

It's loaded with features- some Asus exclusive- and includes top shelf items like Intel NIC LAN.

It's probably not the best value (I like Asrock for that) but it's certainly best overall.

Can I ask-

is your intended purpose pure HTPC or is it mixed use or also PC type application too?

For pure HTPC- I probably would get an Asrock and hope future generations of BIOS updates bring it more up to the level of the ASUS Z77 fpr about $50 less cost. I doubt the performance would matter much in a HTPC application anyhow- the cost savings is probably a bigger factor.

I generally dislike Gigabyte due to a bad experience with them. But it's been 5 years and I probably should let go of my grudge as I doubt it has any real significance today.

-

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post #13008 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanndogg View Post

Thanks for the input on the Z68 for my server. For the HTPC, I could actually try to have Fry's price match Microcenter which would get me a Asus P8H77-M Pro to go with the 3570K for about $10 more. Or, I could wait for the ASRock Z77 Pro-4M to get back in stock at MC. The most important thing was to confirm the Z68 for server so I can start building that over the weekend.

I would like to hear your thoughts on the HTPC motherboard options (Gigabyte Z77M-D3H, Asus P8H77 -M Pro, or ASRock Z77 Pro4M), or why you think Gigabyte isn't that great. Of the three, only the ASRock is currently listed in the guide so I am curious about the other two possibilities.

I think Gigabyte has fallen off a bit. So rather than recommend their new boards from the start I want to see a little reliability from them.

I have had to remove various Gigabyte SNB board from my guides (and Newegg later discontinued the same boards) as there were some higher than usual failure rates from what I could tell. They were also REALLY late to the graphical bios game which for a newbie is potentially a big deal.

Gigabyte is still a great company and I like their products. Just seems they are slipping a bit.

All my opinion of course.
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post #13009 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Bottom line is a Z77 Asus can overclock an unlocked CPU to 4.7ghz or higher without trying...

People reading this: PLEASE do not overclock your HTPC. There is no point and this is contraindicated for 99% of users out there.

Just my opinion, of course.
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post #13010 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

People reading this: PLEASE do not overclock your HTPC. There is no point and this is 100% contraindicated for 99% of users out there.

Just my opinion, of course.

Agreed. It's little significance for pure HTPC.

But for mixed use, or gaming/workstation duties that changes.

It's a consideration for anyone who decides to purchase an unlocked multiplier CPU IMO. If the intended purpose is pure HTPC then rank the overclock ability in the lower to almost insignificant catagory - but if it's any serious gaming, encoding, or PC tasks- there can be some significant value and benefit.

any K series unlocked CPU can be boosted significantly in performance from a good board- Even just setting your TurboBoost aggressively can lead to a significant performance gain- without a constant overclock or high temps.

I see lots of people here going i5 and K series CPU's - which are both overkill for HTPC also. Overclocking is no different. My assumption is someone who's looking at i5's and K series CPU might be gaming or looking for that enthusiast level of extra performance. That the point of those products IMO.

I would not totally dismiss the idea- but your about 99% right- and perhaps even an extra 1% correct if the intended purpose is pure HTPC - as a dedicated HTPC machine.

In that case- lower your CPU- lower your heat- lower your noise. Spend extra on a better SSD and quieter/better PSU and Case- and look for a board that has value and stability- and a low wattage CPU to reduce heat and energy use along with good video. (higher level of Intel graphics) Much more important than raw CPU speed.

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post #13011 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Agreed. It's little significance for pure HTPC.

But for mixed use, or gaming/workstation duties that changes.

It's a consideration for anyone who decides to purchase an unlocked multiplier CPU IMO. If the intended purpose is pure HTPC then rank the overclock ability in the lower to almost insignificant catagory - but if it's any serious gaming, encoding, or PC tasks- there can be some significant value and benefit.

any K series unlocked CPU can be boosted significantly in performance from a good board- Even just setting your TurboBoost aggressively can lead to a significant performance gain- without a constant overclock or high temps.

I see lots of people here going i5 and K series CPU's - which are both overkill for HTPC also. Overclocking is no different. My assumption is someone who's looking at i5's and K series CPU might be gaming or looking for that enthusiast level of extra performance. That the point of those products IMO.

I would not totally dismiss the idea- but your about 99% right- and perhaps even an extra 1% correct if the intended purpose is pure HTPC - as a dedicated HTPC machine.

In that case- lower your CPU- lower your heat- lower your noise. Spend extra on a better SSD and quieter/better PSU and Case- and look for a board that has value and stability- and a low wattage CPU to reduce heat and energy use along with good video. (higher level of Intel graphics) Much more important than raw CPU speed.

Even for most gaming/workstations I would argue that overclocking is not really needed.

And as I mentioned its really not needed for HTPC. And definitely not needed in a "simple" HTPC thread.
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post #13012 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

is your intended purpose pure HTPC or is it mixed use or also PC type application too?

Great advice/info you posted- I am intending to use it as a mix- with the primary use as a HTPC. Looks like I will focus on the Asus or ASRock now. While the ASRock is a Z77, the Asus I can get is an H77 (M-Pro @ Fry's or M/CSM @ MicroCenter) so I am not sure how flexible that would be for OC, etc. as your post seemed to refer mostly to Z77. Also, it is my understanding the Z77 has the ability to OC and run dual video cards, but the H77 doesn't?

Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I think Gigabyte has fallen off a bit. So rather than recommend their new boards from the start I want to see a little reliability from them.

I have had to remove various Gigabyte SNB board from my guides (and Newegg later discontinued the same boards) as there were some higher than usual failure rates from what I could tell. They were also REALLY late to the graphical bios game which for a newbie is potentially a big deal.

Gigabyte is still a great company and I like their products. Just seems they are slipping a bit.

All my opinion of course.

Great to know- this helps me quite a bit as I know you have seen quite a bit of motherboards/parts.

One last thing about using the Asus Z68 as my server board- I have read Intel NIC's are they way to go for servers, but the Asus board I have has a Realtek 8111E. In your guys experience, how much of a concern should this be?
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post #13013 of 15951 Old 05-09-2012, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanndogg View Post

One last thing about using the Asus Z68 as my server board- I have read Intel NIC's are they way to go for servers, but the Asus board I have has a Realtek 8111E. In your guys experience, how much of a concern should this be?

Same opinion I have on iGPUs. Give them (meaning in this case the integrated Realtek) a go at first to see how you like it.

In my case I had a hiccup (stuttering) about 1 out of every 30 times I played media. This would be fixed with a simple restart of the server.

Since I have installed the Intel NIC I have never had this issue return.

Had I not had that issue I would have never got the Intel NIC.
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post #13014 of 15951 Old 05-10-2012, 12:02 AM
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I don't have a server setup at home currently, but I transfer between PC's fairly often, and usually it's pretty large files. Anywhere from 2-20 gigs. I was using my onboard NIC on all of my PC's, HTPC included. They were all either atheros or realtek. Our network administrator recommended Intel NICs to me about 3 years ago, and I haven't looked back. Transfers went from initial spikes of 60-70 megs, stabilizing to about 40-45 megs on the atheros and realtek, to spikes of 120-130 megs, and stabilizing around 90 megs on the Intel NICs. This is of course on a wired Gigabit network.
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post #13015 of 15951 Old 05-10-2012, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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post #13016 of 15951 Old 05-10-2012, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Seagate 3TB for $126 shipped at Newegg today

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148865

Coupon Code: "EMCNEJN42"

Deactivated. This item is currently out of stock and it may or may not be restocked.
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post #13017 of 15951 Old 05-10-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Deactivated. This item is currently out of stock and it may or may not be restocked.

That means its out of stock and you missed it.
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post #13018 of 15951 Old 05-10-2012, 10:01 AM
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There's a 2TB Seagate 5900RPM for $90 with the code that came in my email today.. We're getting there!

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post #13019 of 15951 Old 05-10-2012, 10:08 AM
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There's a 2TB Seagate 5900RPM for $90 with the code that came in my email today.. We're getting there!

Can you post the code, please? Is it the barracuda green for $119? I only see a promo code for $10 off = $109...

I have to return some video tapes....
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post #13020 of 15951 Old 05-10-2012, 10:20 AM
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10% off code in an eBlast email called Coupon Blast. I guess I'm doing my math wrong.. Oops. It is only $12 off so $108. Sorry. I feel like an idiot now. newegg stopped allowng coupon stacking a few years back, AFAIK.

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