Official Sandy Bridge / LGA1155 for HTPCs Thread - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 2223 Old 06-01-2011, 05:43 PM
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Look what showed up today at newegg. I ordered mine from costcentral a couple days ago and it's still not showing shipped either. If I ordered from newegg today, I would have gotten by Friday too...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=i5%202405S
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post #1442 of 2223 Old 06-01-2011, 05:51 PM
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Looks like Newegg is stocking the entire SNB Pentium lineup:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...entium&x=0&y=0
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post #1443 of 2223 Old 06-01-2011, 06:50 PM
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Ref: i5 2405S

1) What will we get more for the quad core compare to dual core like 2100? In real world circumstances, what benefits and will we see any different? Any example?

2) More cache in L2 and L3 compare to 2100, in real world circumstances, what will be the benefit and will we see any different? Any example?

3) Is this still Intel HD Graphic 2000?
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post #1444 of 2223 Old 06-01-2011, 09:13 PM
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It's HD 3000
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post #1445 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H8nXTC View Post

Look what showed up today at newegg. I ordered mine from costcentral a couple days ago and it's still not showing shipped either. If I ordered from newegg today, I would have gotten by Friday too...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=i5%202405S

Also saw that they added the i3 2105
i5 2405S (to save the link-clicks)

Interestingly, the i3 I think incorrectly states that the chip has Intel HD 2000 graphics on board.
Per Intel's press releases and this wiki (as quick reference) both the 2105 and 2405S should have HD 3000 graphics.

I love the Egg but it is frustrating that they seem to have no "standard" formatting. Between two similar products they should have the same information rows presented on the details page....I hate how dissimilar all of the information is presented.
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post #1446 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 05:33 AM
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Newegg is great, but costcentral is $8-10 cheaper on the low end chips with free shipping. They shipped my processor very fast and even gave me a $10 credit for filling out their customer satisfaction survey.

I love Newegg, but costcentral is my new goto for computer parts. The only problem is they have a more limited selection than newegg. That's why on my build I bought the motherboard & memory from newegg, the chip from costcentral, and the case and fan from amazon. Splitting it up saved me almost $50 over buying everything from the egg.
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post #1447 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 10:53 AM
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For HTPC uses, is there a big difference between HD2000 and HD3000 GPU's? Is there a review out there on this topic?
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post #1448 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shftup View Post
For HTPC uses, is there a big difference between HD2000 and HD3000 GPU's? Is there a review out there on this topic?
No. Absolutely no real world difference at all.

If you want to try some games with the iGPU that is the only reason to get the HD3000.
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post #1449 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post
No. Absolutely no real world difference at all.

If you want to try some games with the iGPU that is the only reason to get the HD3000.
assassin,

Correct me if I am wrong, is it just the speed different, not gammers here, but it will be faster response for some games between 2K and 3K, right?

What about below?
1) What will we get more for the quad core compare to dual core like 2100? In real world circumstances, what benefits and will we see any different? Any example?

2) More cache in L2 and L3 compare to 2100, in real world circumstances, what will be the benefit and will we see any different? Any example?
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post #1450 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shftup View Post
For HTPC uses, is there a big difference between HD2000 and HD3000 GPU's? Is there a review out there on this topic?
No difference for HTPC use. My review of the 2400S (HD 2000) has some comparison b/w it and a 2500K (HD 3000).
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post #1451 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post
What about below?
1) What will we get more for the quad core compare to dual core like 2100? In real world circumstances, what benefits and will we see any different? Any example?
You will see better performance in anything that stresses the CPU. E.g. commercials scanning, CPU transcoding, multiple extender clients (especially Media Center). The review I linked above also has data points for the i3-2100T.
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post #1452 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
You will see better performance in anything that stresses the CPU. E.g. commercials scanning, CPU transcoding, multiple extender clients (especially Media Center). The review I linked above also has data points for the i3-2100T.
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post
No difference for HTPC use. My review of the 2400S (HD 2000) has some comparison b/w it and a 2500K (HD 3000).
Thanks for the info babgvant!
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post #1453 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trpltongue View Post
Newegg is great, but costcentral is $8-10 cheaper on the low end chips with free shipping. They shipped my processor very fast and even gave me a $10 credit for filling out their customer satisfaction survey.

I love Newegg, but costcentral is my new goto for computer parts. The only problem is they have a more limited selection than newegg. That's why on my build I bought the motherboard & memory from newegg, the chip from costcentral, and the case and fan from amazon. Splitting it up saved me almost $50 over buying everything from the egg.
FYI...tigerdirect has the processors online. The price of the 2105 is even cheaper than costcentral.
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post #1454 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 12:05 PM
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Thanks guys!
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post #1455 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

You will see better performance in anything that stresses the CPU. E.g. commercials scanning, CPU transcoding, multiple extender clients (especially Media Center). The review I linked above also has data points for the i3-2100T.

That review really seems to say "buy an i3-2100T" even though it never actually comes out and says that.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1456 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

That review really seems to say "buy an i3-2100T" even though it never actually comes out and says that.

It is fair to say that I really like the 2100T; it provides a good balance of CPU and miserly power consumption in a client. It's not the perfect CPU for every use case though. An i5 is a better choice for a server HTPC (especially if you use ShowAnalyzer) even at the additional cost because it has more cores and higher clock speed.
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post #1457 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

It is fair to say that I really like the 2100T; it provides a good balance of CPU and miserly power consumption in a client. It's not the perfect CPU for every use case though. An i5 is a better choice for a server HTPC (especially if you use ShowAnalyzer) even at the additional cost because it has more cores and higher clock speed.

Any chance you going to review the i5 2500T?
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post #1458 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

It is fair to say that I really like the 2100T; it provides a good balance of CPU and miserly power consumption in a client. It's not the perfect CPU for every use case though. An i5 is a better choice for a server HTPC (especially if you use ShowAnalyzer) even at the additional cost because it has more cores and higher clock speed.

I love the 2100T as well. A really really great CPU for HTPC.
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post #1459 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abula View Post

Any chance you going to review the i5 2500T?

It should be possible to extrapolate from existing information how it will perform in CPU tasks based on the clock speed (close to a 2400S in some tasks, a little slower in others). The TDP (45W) is very interesting though; but I'm not sure if the -20W vs an "S" CPU is enough to offset the significant $ premium.
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post #1460 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 06:58 PM
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I am really curious if there is a comparison between power consumption of all these SandyBridge chips. I'd like to know just how much more power a i5-2500K uses at load/idle/sleeping vs i5-2400S vs i3-2100 vs i3-2100T vs G280 vs G620T, etc.

Just how much of a power savings do you get for the premium? 5W? 10W? 50W? That would say alot about if it's worth it to pay the money for the T and S chips especially since all these chips perform well enough for basic HTPC (as a media client) use.

I've done some Googling and haven't been able to find this information.

 

 

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post #1461 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

I am really curious if there is a comparison between power consumption of all these SandyBridge chips. I'd like to know just how much more power a i5-2500K uses at load/idle/sleeping vs i5-2400S vs i3-2100 vs i3-2100T vs G280 vs G620T, etc.

Just how much of a power savings do you get for the premium? 5W? 10W? 50W? That would say alot about if it's worth it to pay the money for the T and S chips especially since all these chips perform well enough for basic HTPC (as a media client) use.

I've done some Googling and haven't been able to find this information.

To get accurate numbers, somebody would have to measure their system with a kill-a-watt, then change only the CPU & measure again, etc, for all those CPUs. Otherwise you'll get very inconsistent results due to multiple motherboards being used (does it have USB3, firewire, displayport, H61 vs H67 vs Z68, etc), different power supplies with different efficiencies, SSDs vs. traditional spinning hard drives, ram (1 stick, 2 sticks, 4 sticks, 1.35v or 1.5v, etc). But I'll go out on a limb and say that the idle and sleep power consumption will be very similar across the family; the big difference will be when they're at 100% load.

Bazinga!

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post #1462 of 2223 Old 06-02-2011, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

I am really curious if there is a comparison between power consumption of all these SandyBridge chips. I'd like to know just how much more power a i5-2500K uses at load/idle/sleeping vs i5-2400S vs i3-2100 vs i3-2100T vs G280 vs G620T, etc.

Just how much of a power savings do you get for the premium? 5W? 10W? 50W? That would say alot about if it's worth it to pay the money for the T and S chips especially since all these chips perform well enough for basic HTPC (as a media client) use.

I've done some Googling and haven't been able to find this information.

Good question. I haven't seen a compilation of that kind of data.

There shouldn't be that much (or any) difference b/w SKUs in a "i" group (i.e. i7/i5/i3) at idle because they are essentially the same silicon. There is a difference at idle b/w the groups though (i5 v. i3); these can be seen in the power table published in the 2100T and 2400S reviews (you'll need to add 5-7W to the 2100T # because I tested it with a picoPSU).

To get a feel for the difference in draw b/w a 35W/65W/95W SNB CPU you can look here (again adding some to the 2100T #):



I would expect there to be slight differences within a TDP grouping consistent with CPU frequency, but nothing that major.
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post #1463 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 12:58 AM
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Which card did you try? I just assembled my HTPC using ASRock H67M-ITX (non-HT) with Core i3 2100T and Win7 x64 Ultimate. I cannot get the OS to detect my AverMedia A188 Duet PCI-e x1 card that is inserted in the PCI-E x16 blue slot on the motherboard.
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post #1464 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

To get accurate numbers, somebody would have to measure their system with a kill-a-watt, then change only the CPU & measure again, etc, for all those CPUs.

That's exactly the kind of comparison I was thinking. Further, I'd say for HTPCs that are media clients (so no transcoding, etc. - just watching HD video, music, photos, TV tuner, etc.) the interesting comparison isn't really the full load draw but power draw at idle and when watching HD video -- the "common use case".

That leads to a problem with the benchmarks, measuring true power usage is made harder by the fact that even though the power draw might be higher, if it does the job in 1/2 the time then overall it could be using less power (kW/h). That's important for ripping and transcoding tasks -- things that can be run faster. However, that doesn't come into play in the idle and the watching HD video use cases. Idle is, well idle -- idle doesn't get done faster on a faster processor. Also, a video you're watching takes however long the video is to watch, no matter the processor speed. None of these tasks can be made more efficient in the time dimension but can be in the power dimension. Does that make sense?

Sorry for the rambling, just thinking out loud how to truly measure power usage for the common HTPC use cases.

 

 

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post #1465 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Good question. I haven't seen a compilation of that kind of data.

There shouldn't be that much (or any) difference b/w SKUs in a "i" group (i.e. i7/i5/i3) at idle because they are essentially the same silicon. There is a difference at idle b/w the groups though (i5 v. i3); these can be seen in the power table published in the 2100T and 2400S reviews (you'll need to add 5-7W to the 2100T # because I tested it with a picoPSU).

To get a feel for the difference in draw b/w a 35W/65W/95W SNB CPU you can look here (again adding some to the 2100T #):



I would expect there to be slight differences within a TDP grouping consistent with CPU frequency, but nothing that major.

Having done the comparisons, what's your feeling on if it's worth the premium price of the lower power processors?

If, like I said above, the power draw is the only way to make power usage more efficient -- since the common tasks (idle and using media) cannot be made faster -- it seems to make sense to pay for the premium silicon for HTPC usage.

However, for beyond HTPC usage (transcoding, ripping, etc.) the faster processors might use less power because they do the work faster. 25% more power draw but done in 1/2 the time = less power usage.

What I don't understand is how the power usage savings translates to $$$ savings. That's a bit more math.

 

 

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post #1466 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

That's exactly the kind of comparison I was thinking. Further, I'd say for HTPCs that are media clients (so no transcoding, etc. - just watching HD video, music, photos, TV tuner, etc.) the interesting comparison isn't really the full load draw but power draw at idle and when watching HD video -- the "common use case".

The Missing Remote actually shows all those power consumption values (for various players and decoders even). The problem is the tests I've seen so far have all used different components (MB, PSU, storage, etc) so extrapolating the difference in CPU power consumption between -T/-S and regular SKU's can't be done easily.

It would certainly be nice if someone can provide a round-up of the following processors:
  • Pentium G620 (65W)
  • Pentium G620T (35W)
  • Core i3-2100 (65W)
  • Core i3-2100T (35W)
  • Core i3-2105 (65W)
  • Core i5-2400 (95W)
  • Core i5-2400S (65W)
  • Core i5-2405S (65W)

So far, best comparison I've seen is the following:
Core i5-2400S
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post #1467 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 08:23 AM
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I just picked up an i5-2500K for a great price at Microcenter. Here is one example of a comparison of that and the i7-2600K with or without a graphics card:

http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...2600k-review/7

Many of the comparisons you see out there are done with a video card connected, like this one:

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1501/6/
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post #1468 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post


However, for beyond HTPC usage (transcoding, ripping, etc.) the faster processors might use less power because they do the work faster. 25% more power draw but done in 1/2 the time = less power usage.

What I don't understand is how the power usage savings translates to $$$ savings. That's a bit more math.

Bingo! I think it's the idle draw that makes the difference. If you can underclock/undervolt the i3, then even that is a wash.

However, comparing an older proc with bigger die size (like an AMD Phenom) with a Sandy bridge, well, then there is a huge difference in idle consumption.

- Rich
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post #1469 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 08:37 AM
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Bingo! I think it's the idle draw that makes the difference.

See, thing is it appears the -S/-T models don't really differ that much in power consumption at idle and video playback. The only difference appears to be at load. That's why I'm more inclined to get the regular versions so I have the extra CPU power to fall back on should I ever need it. It's much easier to underclock/undervolt (although that's not really needed given Sandy Bridge's power gating techniques) than it is to overclock (particularly with 2nd Gen Core i). The only reason I'd buy the -T/-S model is if I needed the ultra low-profile cooler.
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post #1470 of 2223 Old 06-03-2011, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

See, thing is it appears the -S/-T models don't really differ that much in power consumption at idle and video playback. The only difference appears to be at load. That's why I'm more inclined to get the regular versions so I have the extra CPU power to fall back on should I ever need it. It's much easier to underclock/undervolt (although that's not really needed given Sandy Bridge's power gating techniques) than it is to overclock (particularly with 2nd Gen Core i). The only reason I'd buy the -T/-S model is if I needed the ultra low-profile cooler.

+1 I totally agree with you in this regard.
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