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post #2071 of 2223 Old 01-11-2012, 03:57 PM
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Hey guys

I have decided on the Asus Z68 LGA1155 and the 2500K Sandy. My mobo with be either the MAXIMUS or the DELUXE both Gen3.

What DDR3 should I get? I want to OC the hell of of this little chip. I will upgrade the cooler, and the case is going to be a COSMO II. Right now I have a Thermaltake Armor 10 bay full tower till the COSMOS II is released.

What speed DDR3 should I get? WHat brand? What model?

I want 16GB I think. 4x4GB probably.

My budget is $200 or less.

I saw some RIPJAWZ and G.SKILL models for about $129 that seemed to fit the bill. Worth it over CORSAIR or MUSHKIN ?

Anyone up to date with current memory choices for Sandy ?

-

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post #2072 of 2223 Old 01-12-2012, 06:52 PM
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Here's a quick warning for those of you thinking about upgrading to BIOS 0146 on a DH67BL, DH67CF, DH67CL, DH67GD, or DH67VR motherboard. I have a DH67BL. I just upgraded to 0146, and my motherboard instantly became incompatible with my DDR3. I have some G.skill sniper 1.25v 4GB modules that had been running fine for weeks between reboots. Now I can't even POST at 1.25v, and though it POSTs at 1.5v, it is only stable for a couple of minutes. I moved this RAM into another system I have here and ran some memory stress tests, and the modules are fine. I installed some old DDR3 modules into my DH67BL, and so far it seems to be stable with those, but now I'm only at half the RAM I had before.

And to top it off, this BIOS update comes with a warning: "Warning: BIOS version 0146 includes support for future processors. Due to structural changes in this BIOS version, once a board has been converted to this version or later, it will no longer be possible to downgrade the BIOS to version 0132 or earlier. Attempting a BIOS downgrade to a previous version may fail – the board BIOS will remain at its current version."

Bazinga!

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post #2073 of 2223 Old 01-12-2012, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

Here's a quick warning for those of you thinking about upgrading to BIOS 0146 on a DH67BL, DH67CF, DH67CL, DH67GD, or DH67VR motherboard. I have a DH67BL. I just upgraded to 0146, and my motherboard instantly became incompatible with my DDR3. I have some G.skill sniper 1.25v 4GB modules that had been running fine for weeks between reboots. Now I can't even POST at 1.25v, and though it POSTs at 1.5v, it is only stable for a couple of minutes. I moved this RAM into another system I have here and ran some memory stress tests, and the modules are fine. I installed some old DDR3 modules into my DH67BL, and so far it seems to be stable with those, but now I'm only at half the RAM I had before.

And to top it off, this BIOS update comes with a warning: "Warning: BIOS version 0146 includes support for future processors. Due to structural changes in this BIOS version, once a board has been converted to this version or later, it will no longer be possible to downgrade the BIOS to version 0132 or earlier. Attempting a BIOS downgrade to a previous version may fail – the board BIOS will remain at its current version."

Did you try a complete reset, up to and including the CMOS battery removal? I've had luck ensuring the board is back at square 1 when a BIOS is for processor additions. Try the memory again after that. Also, if that doesn't help, wonder if a BIOS recovery could be used to go back a rev.

http://www.intel.com/support/motherb.../CS-020304.htm
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post #2074 of 2223 Old 01-21-2012, 09:17 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell...oarchitecture)

Haswell sounds a lot more impressive than Ivy bridge and it is only a year away in 2013.
I wonder how long it will take until everything built into a motherboard can be integrated into the CPU then the motherboard is only left as a CPU socket with only input/output connectors.

I'm guessing the more things integrated into the CPU from the motherboard will mean a lesser failure rate of the motherboard.
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post #2075 of 2223 Old 01-21-2012, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Hey guys

I have decided on the Asus Z68 LGA1155 and the 2500K Sandy. My mobo with be either the MAXIMUS or the DELUXE both Gen3.

What DDR3 should I get? I want to OC the hell of of this little chip. I will upgrade the cooler, and the case is going to be a COSMO II. Right now I have a Thermaltake Armor 10 bay full tower till the COSMOS II is released.

What speed DDR3 should I get? WHat brand? What model?

I want 16GB I think. 4x4GB probably.

My budget is $200 or less.

I saw some RIPJAWZ and G.SKILL models for about $129 that seemed to fit the bill. Worth it over CORSAIR or MUSHKIN ?

Anyone up to date with current memory choices for Sandy ?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4503/s...-the-best-ddr3

The board and CPU you listed should flat out scream.

BTW, is there REALLY a difference between >brands< of RAM nowadays? Gskill and Crucial have been very good to me. Muskin for their Thumb Drives.
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post #2076 of 2223 Old 01-22-2012, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lag0a View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell...oarchitecture)

Haswell sounds a lot more impressive than Ivy bridge and it is only a year away in 2013.
I wonder how long it will take until everything built into a motherboard can be integrated into the CPU then the motherboard is only left as a CPU socket with only input/output connectors.

I'm guessing the more things integrated into the CPU from the motherboard will mean a lesser failure rate of the motherboard.


Hmm...looks like its time to sit on the fence again.
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post #2077 of 2223 Old 01-23-2012, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lag0a View Post

Haswell sounds a lot more impressive than Ivy bridge and it is only a year away in 2013.

Of course it does, Haswell is the "Tock", and Ivy Bridge only the "Tick", which means that Ivy is basically the Die Shrink of Sandy Bridge, and Haswell is a completely new architecture.
Granted, Ivy is more then just a die shrink, Intel also put some new stuff in there, but its not a completely new CPU like Haswell will be, either.

I, at least, won't be upgrading my main PC from SNB to IVB, i will however build a new HTPC on IVB - my current HTPC is still using an old AMD CPU with a dedicated GPU - which i hope i can reduce to just an IVB CPU, with no external GPU.
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post #2078 of 2223 Old 01-23-2012, 04:24 PM
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Ivy should be better than Sandy- but I am not sure I would wait for it.

No doubt.. the next one will be a totally new CPU and have significant differences

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post #2079 of 2223 Old 01-23-2012, 08:10 PM
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I decided to go with sandy bridge i3-2125 for my htpc since it will suit my needs for a good 5 years hopefully. I plan to go Ivy Bridge on my main gaming rig!
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post #2080 of 2223 Old 01-23-2012, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Ivy should be better than Sandy- but I am not sure I would wait for it.

My old HTPC is still working and giving me video, so replacing it is not something that needs to be done right now.

Anyhow, i'm not sure the SNB GPU is fast enough for my needs, so waiting for IVB is the safe course anyway.
Add to that improvements in the 24p area and reduced power consumption, and i think its worth waiting for 2-3 month more.
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post #2081 of 2223 Old 02-07-2012, 10:39 PM
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post #2082 of 2223 Old 02-13-2012, 07:42 AM
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- Q1 2013
- Lynx Point chipset (USB 3.0, SATA 3.0)
- 22 nm
- Improved CPU, enhanced OC, fully integrated VR
- Improved AVX, AES-NI
- DirectX 11.1, OpenCL 1.2
- Increased 3D and media performance
- 3 displays
- LGA1150, compatible with 2013/2014 platform

source

Haswell graphics expectations: A quantum leap or just another small step forward?
LL
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post #2083 of 2223 Old 02-15-2012, 01:28 AM
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Model Cores/Threads Clock Memory GPU EUs Clock TDP
Core i3-3240 2/4 3.40GHz DDR3-1600 Intel HD Graphics 2500 8? 650/1050MHz 55W
Core i3-3225 2/4 3.30GHz DDR3-1600 Intel HD Graphics 4000 16 650/1050MHz 55W
Core i3-3220 2/4 3.30GHz DDR3-1600 Intel HD Graphics 2500 8? 650/1050MHz 55W
Model Cores/Threads Clock Memory GPU EUs Clock TDP
Core i3-3240T 2/4 3.0GHz DDR3-1600 Intel HD Graphics 2500 8? 650/1050MHz 35W
Core i3-3220T 2/4 2.8GHz DDR3-1600 Intel HD Graphics 2500 8? 650/1050MHz 35W
source

If you are interested in madVR, perhaps you will want Core i3-3225.
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post #2084 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 09:18 AM
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I'm planning a new HTPC, but one thing I am unclear about is whether the 23.976 issue is confined to the chipset, or whether there is anything in the CPU itself that might contribute.

My thought is that I might just pick up a G840, since they are going relatively cheaply and the Ivy Pentiums are not due for a few more months, and then stick it in an H77 motherboard when they come out (maybe in early April).

I know the 23.976 issue may not be the be-all and end-all, and probably the answer is I should just wait until this can be tested on production boards, but I am curious if the experts know the answer already. I know Anandtech has talked about the problem being in the PCH (a chipset feature), and that Intel carried over that design from Clarkdale (see their review of Sandy Bridge dated 3 January 2011). If so, the new motherboards should fix the issue, at least in so far as Intel is trying to fix it (Intel has recently admitted the fix is not perfect).

I do know about Reclock, and I know some people get annoyed by the excessive attention this bug gets, but just thought I'd ask because I often read a kind of shorthand here where people say "Wait for Ivy" to fix the issue, but it isn't always clear whether that is necessary both for the CPU and the chipset/motherboards, plus I don't want to wait for the new Pentiums and don't want to pay for the i5-3470T (first release dual core Ivy).
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post #2085 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you are interested in madVR, perhaps you will want Core i3-3225.

Do you know yet whether using the 3225 will eliminate the need for high speed SDRAM? Do you think you'll be able to drop it in an H67 motherboard with DDR3-1333 and be able to get madVR HQ?
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post #2086 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiorapatea View Post

I'm planning a new HTPC, but one thing I am unclear about is whether the 23.976 issue is confined to the chipset, or whether there is anything in the CPU itself that might contribute.

My thought is that I might just pick up a G840, since they are going relatively cheaply and the Ivy Pentiums are not due for a few more months, and then stick it in an H77 motherboard when they come out (maybe in early April).

I know the 23.976 issue may not be the be-all and end-all, and probably the answer is I should just wait until this can be tested on production boards, but I am curious if the experts know the answer already. I know Anandtech has talked about the problem being in the PCH (a chipset feature), and that Intel carried over that design from Clarkdale (see their review of Sandy Bridge dated 3 January 2011). If so, the new motherboards should fix the issue, at least in so far as Intel is trying to fix it (Intel has recently admitted the fix is not perfect).

I do know about Reclock, and I know some people get annoyed by the excessive attention this bug gets, but just thought I'd ask because I often read a kind of shorthand here where people say "Wait for Ivy" to fix the issue, but it isn't always clear whether that is necessary both for the CPU and the chipset/motherboards, plus I don't want to wait for the new Pentiums and don't want to pay for the i5-3470T (first release dual core Ivy).

From what I have read from multiple sources sources Ivy Bridge will not fix the "24p bug".

FWIW Intel is now just about as close as anyone else. About 1 missed frame every 5 minutes.
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post #2087 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 12:40 PM
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Hi Assassin, Thanks for all you do here, you are a great source of info (I am an 8-year lurker).

Buttering you up here, because I think we do expect some improvement from Intel versus the 1 frame every 5 minutes, even though they have said the fix is not perfect. Truthfully, I don't know whether I will notice, but I'd like to see them Get It Right (TM). Maybe 1 frame every 2 hours would be good because it would deal with most movies (except the intellectual struggles), which are probably the main source of 24p material.
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post #2088 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:20 PM
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I think the limit is the chipset from what I have read and that this isn't likely to be fixed in Ivy.

I would like them to "get it right" as well even though personally I don't notice any difference. But you have to remember that HTPC is a sliver of 1% of their market so I don't think they really care. If its an easy fix then I think they will fix it. But otherwise I am not expecting them to.

Do you notice this issue at all the way it is now?
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post #2089 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Do you know yet whether using the 3225 will eliminate the need for high speed SDRAM? Do you think you'll be able to drop it in an H67 motherboard with DDR3-1333 and be able to get madVR HQ?

RAM makes quite a big difference for the iGPU, 1333 might be a limiting factor. RAM is cheap, 1600 isn't much more expensive then 1333, only if you go higher the price increases.
With Ivy, 1600 is the official speed of the memory controler now, up from 1333 for Sandy.

It may not be required, only tests will tell, but i would recommend it anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

From what I have read from multiple sources sources Ivy Bridge will not fix the "24p bug".

I don't know how you define fixed or what sources you read, but the latest official word from Intel is that they improved the timings in the upcoming chipsets to greatly diminish the problem, so it will be much better in Ivy then it was in Sandy.
Admittedly, they did say it was not 100%, but I never expected it to be exactly spot on, because the 23.976 timing is just incompatible with the clocks used in PCs. (Because of that, its slightly off for every vendor)

If its only a chipset thing or a combination of CPU and Chipset, i cannot say.
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post #2090 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

I don't know how you define fixed or what sources you read, but the latest official word from Intel is that they improved the timings in the upcoming chipsets to greatly diminish the problem, so it will be much better in Ivy then it was in Sandy.

I never expected it to be 100% exactly spot on, because the 23.976 timing is just incompatible with the clocks used in PCs.

If its only a chipset thing or a combination of CPU and Chipset, i cannot say.

Right. But right its about .003 away. So if its improved more that's great. But to say that its going to be completely perfect just isn't accurate at this point from what I have read.

In any event it sounds like we are saying the same thing. Maybe better but not completely fixed.

Either way its a non-issue for me. So I am not worried about it. But then again me and renethx are two people on here that think the 24p bug is overblown to begin with.
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post #2091 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

I don't know how you define fixed or what sources you read, but the latest official word from Intel is that they improved the timings in the upcoming chipsets to greatly diminish the problem, so it will be much better in Ivy then it was in Sandy.

I don't think that word was "Official", just some guy talking at IDF. We'll have to see how different it is when IVB launches.
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post #2092 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:42 PM
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I don't think that word was "Official", just some guy talking at IDF. We'll have to see how different it is when IVB launches.

Right. I just want to make sure we tell people right. I don't want a bunch of pissed off people coming in here complaining about it once its released and its still not fixed.

I have no idea why people are so passionate/outspoken about 23.97x. I just hope we aren't scaring people away from HTPC in general.
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post #2093 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Right. I just want to make sure we tell people right. I don't want a bunch of pissed off people coming in here complaining about it once its released and its still not fixed.

I have no idea why people are so passionate/outspoken about 23.97x. I just hope we aren't scaring people away from HTPC in general.

I think generally HTPCs scare people away from HTPCs

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post #2094 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Right. But right its about .003 away. So if its improved more that's great. But to say that its going to be completely perfect just isn't accurate at this point from what I have read.

Like i hinted at, it'll never be 100% perfect in any HTPC, with any GPU, because the clock generators in a PC are not meant to create that exact clock (but instead usually a nice and round value)
Thats why you can easily get 24.000 exactly, but not 23.976.

Anyway, Intel did acknowledge the problem early with Sandy already, and some engineer did also confirm that it was improved in Ivy, paraphrasing them: "You'll have a hard time to notice it, if you manage to at all".

With NVIDIA or AMD, and some luck and patience, you can usually get down to 0.0003 difference. If Intel can get there, i'll consider the issue fixed.
I'll report back the day i get my Ivy.
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post #2095 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:47 PM
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I think generally HTPCs scare people away from HTPCs

Well they shouldn't, imo. That's my goal --- bring HTPC to eveyone.
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post #2096 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

"You'll have a hard time to notice it, if you manage to at all".

But aren't we already there?
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post #2097 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:49 PM
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But aren't we already there?

Without any tricks like ReClock, i'll notice it. Once every 5 minutes is quite often.
I might be sensitive to such things, who knows, but it does bug me.
It depends on the scene and the type of movement, of course. A hiccup in a slow pan, and i start wondering what is broken in my htpc now again.
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post #2098 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Without any tricks like ReClock, i'll notice it. Once every 5 minutes is quite often.
I might be sensitive to such things, who knows, but it does bug me. A hiccup in a slow pan, and i start wondering what is broken in my htpc now again.

I don't think that's often at all. But to each his own as I respect your opinion. And like I said I must not be sensitive because I don't notice it.
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post #2099 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Like i hinted at, it'll never be 100% perfect in any HTPC, with any GPU, because the clock generators in a PC are not meant to create that exact clock (but instead usually a nice and round value)
Thats why you can easily get 24.000 exactly, but not 23.976.

Replacing the clock generator with something suitable should fix it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Anyway, Intel did acknowledge the problem early with Sandy already, and some engineer did also confirm that it was improved in Ivy, paraphrasing them: "You'll have a hard time to notice it, if you manage to at all".

The quote from bit-tech's article.

Quote:


When asked about this, Dr Hong Jiang, senior principal engineer and chief media architect for Intel, said that we've improved the clock for Ivy Bridge, so that issue is much reduced. Compared to Sandy Bridge, it's a major step forward.' Tom Piazza, Intel senior fellow, chipped in, adding that it's significantly reduced - you'd have to look real hard to catch it.'

I don't think we should take this as an official statement. We don't know how these fellows define "much reduced" or "look real hard".
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post #2100 of 2223 Old 03-02-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Well they shouldn't, imo. That's my goal --- bring HTPC to eveyone.

That is one heck of a goal As big of an HTPC fan as I am I am just convinced that is it not a great solution for a family. If I was a single guy it would be different, and i would have no issues dealing with the issues if/when the appear. Just too many things that can go wrong when others are involved

Cheers,
Damian

MSS.net blog (contributing editor) - http://www.mediasmartserver.net

Windows Entertainment and Connected Home MVP 2010-2012

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