HTPCs with 120hz TVs? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I currently use my HTPC for all of my TV viewing. So basically, I am just using my HDTV as a computer monitor (and nothing else) to watch TV shows and movies.

I am looking to get a bigger TV, but I'm not sure if it is necessary for me to get a 120hz set or not since I won't be using a BD/DVD player or cable box at all. I am not even sure if you can output over HDMI at 1920x1080/120hz. Will the 120hz TV make shows/movies look better than a 60hz TV?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!
Shawn
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post #2 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshawnee View Post

I currently use my HTPC for all of my TV viewing. So basically, I am just using my HDTV as a computer monitor (and nothing else) to watch TV shows and movies.

I am looking to get a bigger TV, but I'm not sure if it is necessary for me to get a 120hz set or not since I won't be using a BD/DVD player or cable box at all. I am not even sure if you can output over HDMI at 1920x1080/120hz. Will the 120hz TV make shows/movies look better than a 60hz TV?

Any help is appreciated, thanks!
Shawn

120Hz is the internal refresh rate of the display, it will still only accept <= 60Hz input. Unless cost is a huge issue get the 120Hz. A 120Hz display will be better than a 60Hz one (everything else equal) because it will be able to flip pixels faster; and there's a good chance it will support 24p playback as well.
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post #3 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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But for an HTPC, would you ever be truly running at 24fps? It would be running at 1920x1080/60hz, so the computer still has to perform a 3:2 pulldown, correct?

I am looking at the Mitsubishi WD-73638: http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-...4358215&sr=8-2

It says "120Hz Sub-Frame Rate for a blur-free picture during fast action; stereo speakers (10w x 2)". Is this a true 120hz TV?

Thanks!
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post #4 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshawnee View Post

But for an HTPC, would you ever be truly running at 24fps?

Sure, you just change the refresh rate (manually or with a tool) to 23Hz before initiating playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djshawnee View Post

I am looking at the Mitsubishi WD-73638: http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-...4358215&sr=8-2

It says "120Hz Sub-Frame Rate for a blur-free picture during fast action; stereo speakers (10w x 2)". Is this a true 120hz TV?

Thanks!

I assumed that you were talking about a 120Hz LCD, but I'm not sure that the answer changes with DLP. It's not clear from the spec's if the TV supports native 24p playback (5:5 pulldown); it does support 24p input, but may do a 3:2 (60) x 2 (120) instead of a 5:5. You'd have to dig through the product manual to find out.
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post #5 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 11:31 AM
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i think the question is, do HDTV's do the same internal processing to get 120hz in pc mode that they do for other sources?
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post #6 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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According to the user manual, this TV does accept 24Hz at 1080p.

Pretty legit price for a huge TV.
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post #7 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 12:30 PM
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My WD-73833 will except 24/30/60 1080p over HDMI and can be set to display at 120hz, that other model is probably the same.

I don't think any of the 120/240hz TVs can actually except anything higher than 60hz at this, it doesn't make since for them to do so since nothing that's normally connected to them can output it.

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post #8 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshawnee View Post
According to the user manual, this TV does accept 24Hz at 1080p.
Yes, it will accept it, but it still applies 3/2 pulldown. Rear projection DLPs are not true 120hz displays. They have a 120hz sub-frame refresh rate: they do half the pixels in one pass, and the other half in another pass. It takes 1/60th of a second to refresh the entire image. This is why they aren't full resolution in 3d mode: the lenses sync to the sub-frame refresh rate. Each eye only sees half the pixels.

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post #9 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Darin View Post
Yes, it will accept it, but it still applies 3/2 pulldown. Rear projection DLPs are not true 120hz displays. They have a 120hz sub-frame refresh rate: they do half the pixels in one pass, and the other half in another pass. It takes 1/60th of a second to refresh the entire image. This is why they aren't full resolution in 3d mode: the lenses sync to the sub-frame refresh rate. Each eye only sees half the pixels.
So NONE of the DLPs will have a true 120hz?

I guess if none of them have 120hz, I may as well just buy this... I really just want a huge TV. 60hz is fine with me, but obviously I would prefer if there was a 120hz option.
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post #10 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshawnee View Post
So NONE of the DLPs will have a true 120hz?
Well, I can tell you that the Mitsubishi rear projection DLPs of the same vintage as mine (2008 model) don't, and despite Samsung advertising their sets as "120hz" (when they still made them), if you actually look in the service manual it shows the wobulatoin actuator operating at 60hz. I would be EXTREMELY surprised if any of this has changed, as that would be a fairly large change to the operation of the optical engine. Due to the way they operate in 3D mode, they have to operate the wobulation actuator @ 60hz in 3D mode to remain compatible with existing 3D glasses. It would be none-trivial to change from that. Many of the sets do have a "Smoth120hz" mode, which by all accounts appears to just be a sub-frame image interpolation mode. All that being said, mine has been a great set, despite not being capable of judder-free 24hz playback.

DLP projectors don't necessarily have the same limitation, as they don't typically use wobulated chips.

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post #11 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djshawnee View Post
But for an HTPC, would you ever be truly running at 24fps? It would be running at 1920x1080/60hz, so the computer still has to perform a 3:2 pulldown, correct?
FWIW, on my Samsung B6000, it appears (I haven't really tested since it's my secondary display) that even if you feed it 1080p60, it will do the IVTC internally and output with either 5:5 pulldown (if FI is off) or 120Hz if FI is on.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #12 of 12 Old 05-02-2011, 03:43 PM
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these samsung support pages (for the 240hz B750 model) do a good job of explaining things:

(cant get the 1st link to work so i'll just post the important text...)
Quote:
The Auto Motion Plus 240Hz (AMP) option will help provide a smooth frame transition when watching fast action programing. This feature corrects two different picture problems, Blur and Judder. When set correctly AMP can reduce the amount of noticable blur or judder on your TV. If set incorrectly this option may over compensate for this motion and disrupt your veiwing experience. The AMP feature refers to the process of inserting extra frames (interpolation) into the video. Your TV is always processing at 240Hz. For more information on this process click here. AMP is available with all sources, picture modes, and resolutions with the execption of the PC input or any input relabled as PC. There are six possible settings for Auto Motion Plus 240Hz;
and...
http://support-us.samsung.com/cyber/...U1F&idx=339544
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