Let's set this straight - No one can do 24p consistently well - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1286 Old 10-26-2011, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chomper87 View Post

From the HTPC side, it seems it's equally a software issue as well.

I'll say it as such - on the HTPC, I have to know what the content is. If it's a 23.976 BD then I set Catalyst Control Center to the correct setting. I don't think PowerDVD or TMT automatically do this. MPC HC supposedly does, but I've never tried it. This seem to work well for me, but for others it might be too much of a pain to change this setting manually.

I use XBMC and it does a good job of automatically switching to native refresh rate with none of the manual shenanigans you are describing.

It can also adjust the sync slightly, as in the case of my i3 outputting to my 23.976 capable TV, so that the video is sync'd up properly without dropping frames.

Now that I've got it figured out it is working very well and I fail to see what the big deal is. I invite someone to come over and do an A/B comparison between how my i3 equipped HTPC with XBMC is outputting 1080p/24 BD material and how my BD player is doing it and tell me they can see the difference. That would be fun.
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post #272 of 1286 Old 11-02-2011, 10:21 AM
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Have to say I have been dealing with this issue recently. Reclock is no go for me cause I'm running win7 64 bit! But I found that Anydvd has the option now to automatically switch format modes when they are mounted and played! So I just typed in 23.976 under the blue ray tab replacing the 24 and now smooth BR playback! FYI!
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post #273 of 1286 Old 11-02-2011, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lagcal3 View Post

Reclock is no go for me cause I'm running win7 64 bit!

Why not use a 32-bit player?
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post #274 of 1286 Old 11-02-2011, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Why not use a 32-bit player?

^^^
Works like a charm!
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post #275 of 1286 Old 11-02-2011, 06:08 PM
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I bought a new LCD TV. Samsung UN55D8000. When connected to my Nvidia GT545, I can see that EDID provides 1920x1080 @23Hz, 24Hz, 59Hz, and 60Hz. I'm curious if it's worth the effort of even making a custom resolution that's closer to 23.976Hz or leave it at 24Hz. I'm not sure if the TV would accepts 48Hz as a custom resolution.

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post #276 of 1286 Old 11-03-2011, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

I'm curious if it's worth the effort of even making a custom resolution that's closer to 23.976Hz or leave it at 24Hz. I'm not sure if the TV would accepts 48Hz as a custom resolution.

ATM, I use to set TV to 50Hz and speedup 24 videos to 25 with ReClock. This method gives me a smoothest result. IMO, 24 on 24 is just not enough for smoothnest, 24 on 60 produces pulldown judder and 24>25 on 50 is perfect. In most cases I don't see that speedup in movement, but smoothnest is very noticable.

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post #277 of 1286 Old 11-03-2011, 05:29 AM
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How do I know what refresh rates my TV can accept? The only ones I know I can trust for sure are the ones it tells the PC I can use (EDID). I obviously dont want to destroy a brand new expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post

ATM, I use to set TV to 50Hz and speedup 24 videos to 25 with ReClock. This method gives me a smoothest result. IMO, 24 on 24 is just not enough for smoothnest, 24 on 60 produces pulldown judder and 24>25 on 50 is perfect. In most cases I don't see that speedup in movement, but smoothnest is very noticable.


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post #278 of 1286 Old 11-03-2011, 05:35 AM
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You can:
1) read the TV's manual
2) read the EDID info
3) in ATI/CCC I can set to display only refresh rates my TV can accept (don't know about Nvidia)

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post #279 of 1286 Old 11-03-2011, 08:53 AM
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Nothing in the manual about if it accepts/understands more granular vertical refresh rate or not (closer than 24Hz). I posted the EDID info in my last post (in respect to refresh rates). Nvidia allows to set custom resolutions with more granular vertical refresh rate; although, only get as close as to the hundredth decimal place per this thread.

Maybe someone here has a "D" generation samsung LCD TV?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qaq View Post

You can:
1) read the TV's manual
2) read the EDID info
3) in ATI/CCC I can set to display only refresh rates my TV can accept (don't know about Nvidia)


Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

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post #280 of 1286 Old 11-03-2011, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lagcal3 View Post

Have to say I have been dealing with this issue recently. Reclock is no go for me cause I'm running win7 64 bit! But I found that Anydvd has the option now to automatically switch format modes when they are mounted and played! So I just typed in 23.976 under the blue ray tab replacing the 24 and now smooth BR playback! FYI!

I'm not seeing in AnyDVD HD how to do this...?

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post #281 of 1286 Old 11-03-2011, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post

I'm not seeing in AnyDVD HD how to do this...?

AnyDVD HD Settings > Program Settings > External Program > Start external Program on Media Change:

Blu-ray > if a Blu-ray disc is inserted,

Browse: C:\\Program Files\\SlySoft\\AnyDVD\\SetDisplayFrequency.exe
Parameters: 23

etc. Well, a better method is rename RunEvent.SetDisplayFrequency.sample.vbs to RunEvent.vbs and use ReClock's event notification feature.
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post #282 of 1286 Old 11-03-2011, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalAV View Post

I'm not seeing in AnyDVD HD how to do this...?

It's not consistent for me.

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post #283 of 1286 Old 11-04-2011, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

Maybe someone here has a "D" generation samsung LCD TV?

I have a Samsung "C" 630. Accepts 23.976.

Considering you're "D" is a newer model - I see no reason why it wouldn't accept 23.976.

I can't answer Nvidia question ... I have Radeon.

For the Radeon - "23" in Catalyst means 23.976.
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post #284 of 1286 Old 11-04-2011, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

I bought a new LCD TV. Samsung UN55D8000.

Also, you'll probably want to explicitly disable "Auto Motion Plus" ... which for the "D" series it looks like it was renamed to "Clear Motion Rate".
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post #285 of 1286 Old 11-04-2011, 02:31 PM
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all hdtv's/bluray players seem to list 24p for 23.976. why dont they specify 23.976?
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post #286 of 1286 Old 11-04-2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post

all hdtv's/bluray players seem to list 24p for 23.976. why dont they specify 23.976?

Actually, most are 24/1001 which is 23.976 (do the math). Some (mostly EU, UK, & CEE discs) are true 24fps and not 24/1001. Those are rare in the US but I have found some.
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post #287 of 1286 Old 11-04-2011, 04:07 PM
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24000/1001 = 23.97602

To be more precise....
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post #288 of 1286 Old 11-04-2011, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound dropouts View Post

24000/1001 = 23.97602

To be more precise....

I've always wondered if that .00002 makes any difference that anyone would be able to notice.
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post #289 of 1286 Old 11-05-2011, 07:03 AM
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To be even more precise, 24000/1001 is a repeating decimal with 239760 repeated indefinitely.

24/1.001 = 23.9760239760239760239760... = 0.{239760} x 100.

It's just mathematics, of no practical meaning. How to calculate:

1/(1+a) = 1-a+a^2-a^3+a^4-a^5-... = (1-a)(1+a^2+a^4+a^6+...), |a|<1; setting a = 0.001,
1/(1.001) = (0.999)(1+0.000001+0.000000000001+...) = 0.999000999000999000... = 0.{999000},
(0.24) * (999000) = 239760, so
(0.24)/(1.001) = (0.24) * (0.{999000}) = 0.{239760}.

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post #290 of 1286 Old 11-05-2011, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

Some (mostly EU, UK, & CEE discs) are true 24fps and not 24/1001.

I was interested in finding some of these to tinker with, but I can't seem to find any.
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post #291 of 1286 Old 11-05-2011, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chomper87 View Post

I was interested in finding some of these to tinker with, but I can't seem to find any.

Here, Blu-ray Audio and Video Specifications Thread

Quote:


Some titles are encoded at an exact 24 fps rather than 23.976 fps and these are denoted as 1080p24*

As of July 2011, 232 out of 4296 BDs (~5.4%) are encoded at exact 24 fps. But for US people, this ratio is close to zero.
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post #292 of 1286 Old 11-05-2011, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chomper87 View Post

I was interested in finding some of these to tinker with, but I can't seem to find any.

Like I said, in the US they are very rare and I can't even remember a disc that has it. Almost all Norway Blu-ray titles are true 24fps but you will also find some 25fps titles too throughout EUR...don't even get me started on those. If you playback with MPC-HC, get ready for some fun with 25fps discs.
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post #293 of 1286 Old 11-05-2011, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy™ View Post

Like I said, in the US they are very rare and I can't even remember a disc that has it.

Filtering by Country = [US] and Display = 1080p24*, I see:

1994 Africa: The Serengeti (IMAX)
1997 Alaska: Spirit of the Wild (IMAX)
1991 Antarctica: An Adventure of a Different Nature (IMAX)
2002 Australia: Land Beyond Time (IMAX)
2009 Dead Snow
1991 Delicatessen
1955 The Ladykillers
2006 The Lives of Others
2008 Magnar Åm: SONaR
1963 Le Mépris (Contempt)
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 1: Episodes 1-5
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 2: Episodes 6-10
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 3: Episodes 11-15
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 4: Episodes 16-17
2006 Re-Cycle
1989 Santa Sangre
2008 Shamo
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (1989) A Grand Day Out
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (1993) The Wrong Trousers
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (1995) A Close Shave
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (2008) A Matter of Loaf and Death

(No guarantee of correctness.)
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post #294 of 1286 Old 11-05-2011, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Filtering by Country = [US] and Display = 1080p24*, I see:

1994 Africa: The Serengeti (IMAX)
1997 Alaska: Spirit of the Wild (IMAX)
1991 Antarctica: An Adventure of a Different Nature (IMAX)
2002 Australia: Land Beyond Time (IMAX)
2009 Dead Snow
1991 Delicatessen
1955 The Ladykillers
2006 The Lives of Others
2008 Magnar Åm: SONaR
1963 Le Mépris (Contempt)
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 1: Episodes 1-5
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 2: Episodes 6-10
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 3: Episodes 11-15
1967 The Prisoner: Disc 4: Episodes 16-17
2006 Re-Cycle
1989 Santa Sangre
2008 Shamo
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (1989) A Grand Day Out
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (1993) The Wrong Trousers
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (1995) A Close Shave
2009 Wallace and Gromit: (2008) A Matter of Loaf and Death

(No guarantee of correctness.)

Of those I have two. No wonder I don't remember any.
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post #295 of 1286 Old 11-06-2011, 03:55 PM
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@OP: you may want to update your first post:

My new Nvidia GT545 card gets is just as precise as ATI. I dont think we can expect any more precision than ( +/-0.002). It would be safe to assume all modern Nvidia and ATI cards can get this close; but, not any closer.

Reported by Reclock:


-MKANET

Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Let's set this all straight and start to re-educate people. I am probably the loudest critic of the whole "24p" bug.

As tested by AVS users (and others) the big three companies output the following when trying to do correct 23.976...

ATI: 23.978 (+0.002)
There are numerous reports of ATI being inconsistent at best with correct 24p playback.

NVidia: 23.972 (-0.004)
One example: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=480

Intel with UAC off: 23.973 (-0.003)
Intel with UAC on: 24.000 (+0.024)

So for those of you with the opinion that Intel is the only one that can't get this correct I would think again.

I would also question what those of you who bought an ATI or NVidia card to "fix" the Intel problem are really seeing/experiencing in regards to the "24p bug".

Looking forward to your comments/backlash/criticism/anger/confusion/arguments.


Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

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post #296 of 1286 Old 11-06-2011, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

@OP: you may want to update your first post:

My new Nvidia GT545 card gets is just as precise as ATI. I dont think we can expect any more precision than ( +/-0.002). It would be safe to assume all modern Nvidia and ATI cards can get this close; but, not any closer.

Reported by Reclock:


-MKANET

Mines spot on with EVR or madVR 6850.
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post #297 of 1286 Old 11-06-2011, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

@OP: you may want to update your first post:

My new Nvidia GT545 card gets is just as precise as ATI. I dont think we can expect any more precision than ( +/-0.002). It would be safe to assume all modern Nvidia and ATI cards can get this close; but, not any closer.

Reported by Reclock:


-MKANET

Your going to have to move that decimal point over to the left a couple notches.
Madvr reports +/-0.00001 for me, assuming we are trying to hit 23.97602
5670 btw.






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post #298 of 1286 Old 11-06-2011, 11:19 PM
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I get 23.9761 myself, so i agree with the two posters before me, some cards do a good job out of the box, and some can reach really good values with some tweaking.

0.0001 is pretty good, but anything 0.000x is of course alot better then 0.002.
IMHO, if your difference is smaller then 1/1000, you probably just should stop worrying.
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post #299 of 1286 Old 11-07-2011, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post

I've always wondered if that .00002 makes any difference that anyone would be able to notice.

I average 1 frame repeat every 8 hours. Since most movies are around 2 hours long, there is definitely no reason to be that exact.

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post #300 of 1286 Old 11-07-2011, 08:48 AM
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My TV "accepts" 23.xxx/24.xxx refresh rates. However, on the TV's OSD it says 1920x1080 24Hz after it connects. Does that mean it accepts 23.xxx refresh rate; but the TV actually refreshes at 24.000?

PS: Does anyone know how reclock treats HDTV ATSC 720P at 59.94 material? I dont really want to change my display's refresh rate every time I play a different type of video. Maybe I should just set my HTPC's refresh rate to 60Hz? If so, how would I configure reclock to change 23.976 media to 24 and 59.94 media to 60?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chomper87 View Post

I have a Samsung "C" 630. Accepts 23.976.

Considering you're "D" is a newer model - I see no reason why it wouldn't accept 23.976.

I can't answer Nvidia question ... I have Radeon.

For the Radeon - "23" in Catalyst means 23.976.


Can your HTPC Media Center / DVR Do this??

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