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post #451 of 1286 Old 03-18-2012, 08:14 PM
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Have you tried a different player?
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post #452 of 1286 Old 03-18-2012, 08:21 PM
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NTSC DVD is always interlaced 29.97 fps (or 59.94 fields/s). Movie is IVTCed to 23.976 fps and video is deinterlaced to 59.94 fps.

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post #453 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Have you tried a different player?

No, haven't. Was trying to keep the HTPC load as "clean" as I could. TMT5 seemed to be the most recommened choice for use with MyMovies. I can change back to the default WMC player for DVD and try that. I was trying to keep the interface behaviors the same between BRD and DVD, thus the setting to have TMT play the DVD files too.

Thank you, Scott


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post #454 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

No, haven't. Was trying to keep the HTPC load as "clean" as I could. TMT5 seemed to be the most recommened choice for use with MyMovies. I can change back to the default WMC player for DVD and try that. I was trying to keep the interface behaviors the same between BRD and DVD, thus the setting to have TMT play the DVD files too.

Thank you, Scott

Yah I definitely understand that. Just figured it was worth a try.
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post #455 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Yah I definitely understand that. Just figured it was worth a try.

Agreed. I have to do something.

But what about the PC refresh rate for DVD? What should it be? Maybe I need to flip that and see how it does.

Ideally I wish the HTPC could do source direct like the Oppo. That is, no deintelacing, no frame rate conversion, no video level conversion, no colorspace conversion (preserve YcbCr instead of converting to RGB). Let my Lumagen handle the VP. Just read the data off the disc, decode and decompress, period. So for a DVD I'd get a YCbCr 480i stream, unmangled. Then we'd have a sweet HTPC. Alas, as far as I know that's not possible. Had a long thread about it in the 20k forum some time ago.


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post #456 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

what about the PC refresh rate for DVD? What should it be?

- Movies: 23.976Hz
- Videos: 59.94Hz

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

NTSC DVD is always interlaced 29.97 fps (or 59.94 fields/s). Movie is IVTCed to 23.976 fps and video is deinterlaced to 59.94 fps.


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post #457 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- Movies: 23.976Hz
- Videos: 59.94Hz

But this assumes the PC is doing the deinterlace and IVTC, right? I think TMT5 has a setting to deinterlace or not and if it does, I have it off.


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post #458 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- Movies: 23.976Hz
- Videos: 59.94Hz

For Bluray that is correct. All DVD's need to playback at 30/60hz. Some Players like the Oppo have an option to convert DVD to 23.976 but I don't believe TMT supports that ability.


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post #459 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

For Bluray that is correct. All DVD's need to playback at 30/60hz. Some Players like the Oppo have an option to convert DVD to 23.976 but I don't believe TMT supports that ability.

I've watched some DVDs in TMT5 with the refresh rate set to 23.976, and it does work reasonably well if the source material matches. But if the source literally is 29.97, then it is going to be a mess. Reclock is my friend at telling me what the video stream's frame rate is.

Bazinga!

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post #460 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

For Bluray that is correct. All DVD's need to playback at 30/60hz. Some Players like the Oppo have an option to convert DVD to 23.976 but I don't believe TMT supports that ability.

Are you still living in the interlaced display era? Every (standalone) *progressive scan* DVD player can convert film-based DVD to 23.976 (that's why it is called "progressive scan"). Every PC graphics card/driver can convert film-based DVD to 23.976.

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post #461 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Are you still living in the interlaced display era?

I don't think he is, I'm not. BUT I do want the intelaced video out to be handled by the superior processing of my Lumagen processor. So interlaced out is fine with me.


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post #462 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

I've watched some DVDs in TMT5 with the refresh rate set to 23.976, and it does work reasonably well if the source material matches. But if the source literally is 29.97, then it is going to be a mess. Reclock is my friend at telling me what the video stream's frame rate is.

On mine at 23.98 video looks just fine. It's the audio that's hosed.


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post #463 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GetGray View Post

I don't think he is, I'm not. BUT I do want the intelaced video out to be handled by the superior processing of my Lumagen processor. So interlaced out is fine with me.

Basically you are in a wrong track. PC is not designed to output interlaced 480 video format (still possible though). The best result is almost always obtained by outputting *progressive* 1080 (or whatever resolutions of your display device). In this sense PC is different from a standalone DVD player.

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post #464 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Are you still living in the interlaced display era?

No. This is really about the limitations of using MM + TMT + autoswitching with DVD in a HTPC environment. If he sets his video back to 60hz, the lipsync issue should be resolved.


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post #465 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

But if the source literally is 29.97

Are you referring to a video-based content (as opposed to a film-based content) by this? What kind of mess do you see?

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post #466 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

No. This is really about the limitations of using MM + TMT + autoswitching with DVD in a HTPC environment. If he sets his video back to 60hz, the lipsync issue should be resolved.

Disable TMT's autoswitching and try Reclock VBScript.

Basically TMT uses the driver's algorithm (AMD, NVIDIA or Intel) of IVTC (film-mode deinterlacing) and (video-mode) deinterlacing unless you enable "SimHD". So it's a kind of player-independent. What kind of limitations are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

For Bluray that is correct. All DVD's need to playback at 30/60hz. Some Players like the Oppo have an option to convert DVD to 23.976 but I don't believe TMT supports that ability.

Every (standalone) *progressive scan* DVD player can convert film-based DVD to 23.976 (that's why it is called "progressive scan"). Every PC graphics card/driver can convert film-based DVD to 23.976. As TMT uses the driver's algorithm via DXVA2, TMT can too (if not, the build is broken. )

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post #467 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Are you referring to a video-based content (as opposed to a film-based content) by this? What kind of mess do you see?

Is that a trick question? There are some TV shows on DVD that I know were originally filmed, but as they were mastered for DVD, they didn't preserve the 23.976 frame rate. Reclock reports their video stream as 29.97. The video played back at 59.94 looks like TV broadcasts, but at 23.976, it is very jerky.

Bazinga!

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post #468 of 1286 Old 03-19-2012, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Basically you are in a wrong track. PC is not designed to output interlaced 480 video format (still possible though). The best result is almost always obtained by outputting *progressive* 1080 (or whatever resolutions of your display device). In this sense PC is different from a standalone DVD player.

What happens when a PC records & playbacks a 1080i OTA HDTV program? What would I want the PC to output?
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post #469 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

What happens when a PC records & playbacks a 1080i OTA HDTV program? What would I want the PC to output?

You can send the original interlaced format by selecting "29Hz" desktop refresh rate. But most people choose to deinterlace it in PC and output the progressive format at "59Hz" refresh rate. The current PC graphics cards (except for very low-end ones) are capable of deinterlacing 1080i contents pretty well (as seen HQV Benchmark). If the content is film-based, the refresh rate should be 23.976Hz, of course.

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post #470 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 06:48 AM
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you guys have heard of reClock, havent you?
cant belive there is a HTPC without it nowadays..

PS.
3:2 is unacceptable on panning scenes. and so is frame drop every 5 minutes

dont make fun of my english, its 3rd language for me
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post #471 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by miks View Post

you guys have heard of reClock, havent you?
cant belive there is a HTPC without it nowadays.

Haven't you ever searched in this forum? There have been literally tons of talks about ReClock media adaptation.

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post #472 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

Is that a trick question? There are some TV shows on DVD that I know were originally filmed, but as they were mastered for DVD, they didn't preserve the 23.976 frame rate. Reclock reports their video stream as 29.97. The video played back at 59.94 looks like TV broadcasts, but at 23.976, it is very jerky.

There are a few film-based DVDs that were actually shot at 30fps. 59.94Hz is the correct refresh rate (each frame repeated twice). At 23.976Hz, 6 frames out of 30 will be dropped. There are another type of film-based DVDs shot at 24fps, but not properly flagged. I observed that ReClock reports 29.97fps, so manual selection of 23.976Hz is required (if you don't like 3:2 pulldown). I am not sure which case you are referring to. Examples of such DVDs?

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post #473 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miks View Post

3:2 is unacceptable on panning scenes. and so is frame drop every 5 minutes

Eh. I, and many others, don't notice 1 frame drop in 7200 frames.


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post #474 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

You can send the original interlaced format by selecting "29Hz" desktop refresh rate.

Except you can't (or maybe I'm wrong and Madshi can clear it up). If you play interlaced content, and set the output to be interlaced, the deinterlacing happens twice, once in the PC and once in the display. The player/renderer deinterlaces the video and renders it to the progressive framebuffer, and then the video card pulls alternate fields out of the frame buffer.

There's no connection between source frame and output frame. About the closest you can come is set the deinterlacing mode to "Weave", which would prevent the fields from getting blended/changed, but even then there's no mechanism to directly map source fields to output fields, so the field order is not necessarily retained.

Maybe a Lumagen is smart enough to figure out the right order of mis-ordered fields.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #475 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post


Eh. I, and many others, don't notice 1 frame drop in 7200 frames.

One every 40 seconds gahhh

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #476 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pokekevin View Post

One every 40 seconds gahhh

Who does that? Not even Intel based boards do that anymore.


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post #477 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post


Who does that? Not even Intel based boards do that anymore.

Laptop nvidia

Was able to create a customreso and fix it

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #478 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Eh. I, and many others, don't notice 1 frame drop in 7200 frames.

I think it depends on the video card. Frame drops on the Intel iGPU were very very noticeable to me when they happened. Even my wife, who doesn't even pay attention to this stuff, noticed it... "what just happened where the picture tore for a second"?
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post #479 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I think it depends on the video card. Frame drops on the Intel iGPU were very very noticeable to me when they happened. Even my wife, who doesn't even pay attention to this stuff, noticed it... "what just happened where the picture tore for a second"?

I have never noticed it. Neither has the wife. And I have tried to see it on my setup and numerous other setups. Never have any of the 20+ friends that I have built one for in my city locally (trust me --- I would hear about it if some of them or their wives noticed anything).

I am not saying its not noticeable. I am just saying that not everyone sees it. And I maintain that starting with the integrated GPU and adding a card later if you have any complaints at all is the best approach for a new HTPC user.


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post #480 of 1286 Old 03-20-2012, 02:55 PM
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Well perhaps TV size/technology is a factor too. This was on a 65" Plasma. The frame drop was during an action scene in Iron Man and trust me it was very very noticeable. At other times the frame drops are less noticeable depending on what is happening on screen.

I did find a good workaround to the problem which was setting XBMC to sync to source AND display (with audio sampling)... this resulted in zero dropped frames... unfortunately when XBMC got HD audio introduced via patch this no longer worked.

So, I bought a 6450 and now experience zero dropped frames with just "sync to source" being set.
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