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post #601 of 880 Old 09-23-2011, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

A4-3300/3400 if you want BR 3D (TMT/PDVD is required). Otherwise Celeron G530 is a better deal.

Thanks again. Now I'll have to spend a lot of time dithering on the MB. Maybe I'll blow the $17 savings on an H67 with built-in RAID capabilities...
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post #602 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 01:11 AM
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Just a rumor (but usually precise).
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post #603 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 10:24 AM
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Rumor or not concerning availability of the A8-3800, my patience is just about at the end as I've been waiting for it since August. I've have all the parts in place for a PC-based prepro except the A8 CPU and associated mobo.

So what I'm thinking is to go with the A4-3400 for $70 (curiously it's currently a few dollars cheaper than the lower clocked A4-3300 at the Egg) plus a mobo in the $70 range. Specifically I'm leaning towards this Gigabyte board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128517with the A75 chipset because once the combo discount and free shipping for this mobo are applied it's only $10 more than cheapest combination I found on the Egg (A4-3400 CPU + Asrock mobo with A55 chipset). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157277.
Renethx feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you mentioned in a previous post that AMD's upcoming Bulldozer APUs will be compatible with socket FM1 and if this is the case I should have a easy upgrade path at (hopefully) nominal cost from the A4-3400 once the Bulldozer APUs are available.

What do you all think?
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post #604 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 02:07 PM
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NE's promo code $10 discount brings this LLano triple core down to $90.


NE's $10 price drop on the A4-3400 bring it to within $3 of the Celeron G540, and from a marketing standpoint, a couple hundred MHz CPU clock speed faster.

So it looks like the low end APU competition is starting to heat up. Now we have to see the newly introduced A55 MBs drop down into the $60 and below range...

PS: Asrock has an interesting "high price" A55 Pro 3 ATX (no microATX) MB. Interesting in that it's A55 based BUT Asrock has added two SATA3 connectors and two USB 3 ports on the motherboard. Even with having two extra chips terminating two of the PCIe lanes, they also provide TWO physical X16 PCIe connectors (one is x4 electrical).
So you get EIGHT SATA connectors (1 is really eSATA) on this non-RAID5 capable motherboard...I find it interesting to ponder why they added these features to an A55 MB, but did not include two digital video jacks...
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post #605 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 02:52 PM
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A4-3440 on NE? Where and how much (or was 3440 a typo)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

NE's promo code $10 discount brings this LLano triple core down to $90.


NE's $10 price drop on the A4-3440 bring it to within $3 of the Celeron G540, and from a marketing standpoint, a couple hundred MHz CPU clock speed faster.

So it looks like the low end APU competition is starting to heat up. Now we have to see the newly introduced A55 MBs drop down into the $60 and below range...

PS: Asrock has an interesting "high price" A55 Pro 3 ATX (no microATX) MB. Interesting in that it's A55 based BUT Asrock has added two SATA3 connectors and two USB 3 ports on the motherboard. Even with having two extra chips terminating two of the PCIe lanes, they also provide TWO physical X16 PCIe connectors (one is x4 electrical).
So you get EIGHT SATA connectors (1 is really eSATA) on this non-RAID5 capable motherboard...I find it interesting to ponder why they added these features to an A55 MB, but did not include two digital video jacks...

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post #606 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

A4-3440 on NE? Where and how much (or was 3440 a typo)?


Sorry!
I fixed the typo, converting the currently non-existent A4-3440 to an A4-3400. Thanks for noticing.
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post #607 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

Renethx feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you mentioned in a previous post that AMD's upcoming Bulldozer APUs will be compatible with socket FM1 and if this is the case I should have a easy upgrade path at (hopefully) nominal cost from the A4-3400 once the Bulldozer APUs are available.

What do you all think?

If the information I got is correct, yes, Trinity APU (Q1 2012) will work with FM1 mb and Trinity should be (much) better than A8-3800.
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post #608 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Sorry!
I fixed the typo, converting the currently non-existent A4-3440 to an A4-3400. Thanks for noticing.

No worries: I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing a viable AMD option.
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post #609 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If the information I got is correct, yes, Trinity APU (Q1 2012) will work with FM1 mb and Trinity should be (much) better than A8-3800.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll proceed with my aforementioned A4-strategy as a short term solution until the next-gen CPU/IGPs are available. I'll probably take a look at Intel's Ivy Bridge as well but on paper, the ability to do a simple, single chip swap is attractive.
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post #610 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

Rumor or not concerning availability of the A8-3800, my patience is just about at the end as I've been waiting for it since August. I've have all the parts in place for a PC-based prepro except the A8 CPU and associated mobo.

So what I'm thinking is to go with the A4-3400 for $70 (curiously it's currently a few dollars cheaper than the lower clocked A4-3300 at the Egg) plus a mobo in the $70 range. Specifically I'm leaning towards this Gigabyte board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128517with the A75 chipset because once the combo discount and free shipping for this mobo are applied it's only $10 more than cheapest combination I found on the Egg (A4-3400 CPU + Asrock mobo with A55 chipset). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157277.
Renethx feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you mentioned in a previous post that AMD's upcoming Bulldozer APUs will be compatible with socket FM1 and if this is the case I should have a easy upgrade path at (hopefully) nominal cost from the A4-3400 once the Bulldozer APUs are available.

What do you all think?

I'm still putzing around researching H61/67 vs A55/75 and one thing I've noticed concerns dual digital video outputs.

First, you have spend more money to get two physical digital video connectors on an AMD MB than for an Intel MB.

In addition, at least some of the AMD MBs do NOT support two digital monitors active at the same time. For example, this Gigabyte MB specifically calls out (page 21):
Dual Display: DVI-D + HDMI Supported = No.
The GB manual at least calls this out: at least one another mfg's manual does NOT note this.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=llano

The reason for this limitation is implied in the page 8 block diagram in the GB manual. The diagram shows a switch between the APU and the HDMI and DVI connector.

This is a minus for me, because I figure that VGA connectors will eventually fade from future monitors and I plan on still having a dual monitor use for this MB someplace in the house in, say, five years. I'm basing this on systems that we currently have in the house/
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post #611 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 05:17 PM
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ASRock A75 Extreme6/Pro4/Pro4-M supports HDMI+DVI. Perhaps these three are the only A55/A75 mb that supports this combination (that's why I prefer ASRock ).
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post #612 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

NE's promo code $10 discount brings this Llano triple core down to $90.

NE's $10 price drop on the A4-3400 bring it to within $3 of the Celeron G540, and from a marketing standpoint, a couple hundred MHz CPU clock speed faster.

Now those prices are much more palatable. Sooner rather than later, those would probably become permanent pricing for Llano.
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post #613 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

ASRock A75 Extreme6/Pro4/Pro4-M supports HDMI+DVI. Perhaps these three are the only A55/A75 mb that supports this combination (that's why I prefer ASRock ).

The Asrock MBs have come out as my top choices for both AMD A55/75 and Intel H61/67 choices. Their documentation and web site seems pretty clear also, though this note in the Pro4M manual leaves me with questions/criticism

"3. To support Dual-link DVI monitor, please do not use D-Sub and HDMI
ports. Please connect the DVI monitor cable to the DVI port only."

By definition, only DVI supports Dual-link. Why the warning: because people might attempt use a HDMI->DVI adapter? ???

On my other, $$ note, I can get an Asrock H67 MB for less than the Asrock A75s you listed, and the H67 supports RAID5. Asrock even throws in a couple of USB3.0 ports on the rear panel, though that's less than the A75 supports. But the H67 MB includes a floppy connector!?
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post #614 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 06:28 PM
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does Amd Llano support 120hz refresh rate?
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post #615 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

The Asrock MBs have come out as my top choices for both AMD A55/75 and Intel H61/67 choices. Their documentation and web site seems pretty clear also, though this note in the Pro4M manual leaves me with questions/criticism

"3. To support Dual-link DVI monitor, please do not use D-Sub and HDMI
ports. Please connect the DVI monitor cable to the DVI port only."

By definition, only DVI supports Dual-link. Why the warning: because people might attempt use a HDMI->DVI adapter? ???

On my other, $$ note, I can get an Asrock H67 MB for less than the Asrock A75s you listed, and the H67 supports RAID5. Asrock even throws in a couple of USB3.0 ports on the rear panel, though that's less than the A75 supports. But the H67 MB includes a floppy connector!?

This should be clear. The DVI port supports two modes (selectable in UEFI BIOS):

- Dual-link ([as Dual Link DVI] in UEFI): up to 2560 x 1600, 75Hz. All the other ports are disabled (because all the resources are used by dual-link DVI).
- Single-link ([as HDMI] in UEFI): up to 1920 x 1200, 60Hz. You can use DVI along with any of VGA and HDMI. If you use a DVI-HDMI adapter, this port is completely equivalent to the HDMI port, in particular, it supports audio (AMD's proprietary adapter is unnecessary, a generic DVI-HDMI works). (But dual audio stream over HDMI+DVI is not supported, unlike Intel and NVIDIA.)

I have been using A75 Pro4-M. Highly recommended. (I have no idea what Newegg reviewers say; everything works beautifully including smart fan control and wake up from sleep.)
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post #616 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Now those prices are much more palatable. Sooner rather than later, those would probably become permanent pricing for Llano.

You'd hope so if they want to move APU product on the desktop.

I wonder, but haven't bothered looking, if there are rumors on unlocking the 4th core. Or the 3rd & 4th for the A4 parts: I assume these are all still the same die inside.

I also wonder what impact, if any, will GloFo's NY state fab have on pricing. If Abu Dhabi wants to invest in a SOTA fab in NY and it drives down AMD (and Intel) prices for the consumer, I'm all for it. Supposedly that plant will start production next year, making what for whom, I do not know.

If you want to read about GloFo future predictions, this article is a good taste. I assume (and could be very wrong) that GloFo also makes the A75/55 FCH:
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/.../15/2003513278
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post #617 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

This should be clear. The DVI port supports two modes (selectable in UEFI BIOS):

- Dual-link ([as Dual Link DVI] in UEFI): up to 2560 x 1600, 75Hz. All the other ports are disabled (because all the resources are used by dual-link DVI).
- Single-link ([as HDMI] in UEFI): up to 1920 x 1200, 60Hz. You can use DVI along with any of VGA and HDMI. If you use a DVI-HDMI adapter, this port is completely equivalent to the HDMI port, in particular, it supports audio (AMD's proprietary adapter is unnecessary, a generic DVI-HDMI works). (But dual audio stream over HDMI+DVI is not supported, unlike Intel and NVIDIA.)

I have been using A75 Pro4-M. Highly recommended. (I have no idea what Newegg reviewers say; everything works beautifully including smart fan control and wake up from sleep.)

Thanks for the detail in your explanation. The Asrock blurb is poorly worded and should include part of what you mentioned. But it's much, much better than mentioning nothing, like Biostar apparently did.

"dual audio stream over HDMI+DVI is not supported" is something I have not thought of before because I use the analog or SPDIF out when I use HDMI (or DVI). Hmmm...
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post #618 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll proceed with my aforementioned A4-strategy as a short term solution until the next-gen CPU/IGPs are available. I'll probably take a look at Intel's Ivy Bridge as well but on paper, the ability to do a simple, single chip swap is attractive.

Ivy bridge has the potential be pretty great for HTPC if they address the 23.xxx fps issue. It will have improved cpu performance, but for HTPC who cares, the gpu improvement are suppose to be pretty big and will hopefully be multimedia focused. Add the 3D 22nm chip process and it should really save on the power bill. Hopefully they will give us a cheap dual core version like the current core i3 and pentium.

PS trinity should also do everything HTPC well and more than likely spank intel in games. If intel doesn't fix the 23.xxx fps bug, I'm guess it will be the better HTPC choice.
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post #619 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

NE's promo code $10 discount brings this LLano triple core down to $90.


NE's $10 price drop on the A4-3400 bring it to within $3 of the Celeron G540, and from a marketing standpoint, a couple hundred MHz CPU clock speed faster.

So it looks like the low end APU competition is starting to heat up. Now we have to see the newly introduced A55 MBs drop down into the $60 and below range...

PS: Asrock has an interesting "high price" A55 Pro 3 ATX (no microATX) MB. Interesting in that it's A55 based BUT Asrock has added two SATA3 connectors and two USB 3 ports on the motherboard. Even with having two extra chips terminating two of the PCIe lanes, they also provide TWO physical X16 PCIe connectors (one is x4 electrical).
So you get EIGHT SATA connectors (1 is really eSATA) on this non-RAID5 capable motherboard...I find it interesting to ponder why they added these features to an A55 MB, but did not include two digital video jacks...

I have read a few articles stating that their is a glut of cpu's in inventory. Their might be a real price war heating up, so it might be a really great time to buy over the next few months.
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post #620 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If the information I got is correct, yes, Trinity APU (Q1 2012) will work with FM1 mb and Trinity should be (much) better than A8-3800.

Trinity is suppose to be compatible with FM1 but not the standard non apu bulldozer.
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post #621 of 880 Old 09-24-2011, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Trinity is suppose to be compatible with FM1 but not the standard non apu bulldozer.

Zambezi (the upcoming FX-Series processors) and Vishera (the successor to Zambezi) are all Socket AM3+. Llano APU: FM1, Trinity APU (the successor to Llano): FM1 & FM2.

BTW you shouldn't use "Bulldozer" to indicate a processor. It's the code name of a module. Zambezi consists of 2-4 Bulldozer modules, Trinity consists of 2 Bulldozer (precisely speaking "Piledriver", the successor to Bulldozer) modules.
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post #622 of 880 Old 09-25-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Ivy bridge has the potential be pretty great for HTPC if they address the 23.xxx fps issue. It will have improved cpu performance, but for HTPC who cares, the gpu improvement are suppose to be pretty big and will hopefully be multimedia focused. Add the 3D 22nm chip process and it should really save on the power bill. Hopefully they will give us a cheap dual core version like the current core i3 and pentium.

PS trinity should also do everything HTPC well and more than likely spank intel in games. If intel doesn't fix the 23.xxx fps bug, I'm guess it will be the better HTPC choice.

Don't forget the even lower priced SNB Celeron.

IMHO, no way that Trinity desktop will appear in meaningful quantities in 1Q2012
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post #623 of 880 Old 09-25-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elockett View Post

Rumor or not concerning availability of the A8-3800, my patience is just about at the end as I've been waiting for it since August. I've have all the parts in place for a PC-based prepro except the A8 CPU and associated mobo.

Tell me about it -- I've got an Asus F1A75-I Deluxe sat at home and a Cooler Master Elite 100 case on the way but without a processor to go in it (and I'd specifically singled out the A8-3800) there doesn't seem much point.

I think the most frustrating thing about it is that the A8-3800 is supposed to be available already; it's not like the AM3+ situation where you can buy a motherboard for an as-yet unreleased processor...

If only AMD would give us some indication as to when we could expect them...
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post #624 of 880 Old 09-25-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neimad View Post

Tell me about it -- I've got an Asus F1A75-I Deluxe sat at home and a Cooler Master Elite 100 case on the way but without a processor to go in it (and I'd specifically singled out the A8-3800) there doesn't seem much point.

I think the most frustrating thing about it is that the A8-3800 is supposed to be available already; it's not like the AM3+ situation where you can buy a motherboard for an as-yet unreleased processor...

If only AMD would give us some indication as to when we could expect them...

Yes, AMD certainly demonstrates piss-poor delivery with the desktop Llano product line. I noticed Cpu-world.com lists a August 8th introduction date for the 3800. August 8th was a LONG time ago.

I can only speculate (new 32nm process?, new payment relationship with their foundry?? turmoil at the top of AMD? Oktoberfest?) about why the execution is so poor and hope that it gets better when AMD delivers Trinity in:
2Q2012?
3Q2012?
???
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post #625 of 880 Old 09-26-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neimad View Post


Tell me about it -- I've got an Asus F1A75-I Deluxe sat at home

Just ordered the same board. Can you take a look at it and see if there is a "mini PCI express" legend by the wifi card socket or if it just says "wlan"?

Trying to find out if that really is a PCIe socket.

thanks
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post #626 of 880 Old 09-26-2011, 12:15 PM
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Good point concerning dual, simultaneous HDMI+DVI display: I had to stop and consider this before going with the Gigabyte board. After some realistic pondering about use I still think it will OK because though I will use dual displays initially (main 58" plasma via HDMI, 16" LCD on coffee table at my chair via DVI), I really won't need them both on simultaneously. The idea is to use the main display for TV and movies, and the smaller display for music management or quick, lightweight web browsing.

In the near-term (Q1 2012 post CES), my plan is to replace the 16" LCD with a tablet using wifi as the secondary display.

Then there is the rouge element in the form of encrypted cable TV on my current HTPC (Intel i3/Asus H67 mobo). Though it always works without incident on the 58" plasma alone, WMC will sometimes block the TV image with a HDCP error when another display is connected. This is the case with my current displays (in spite of my 16" LCD being HDCP compliant) but TV was viewable on both displays when I swapped the 16" Westinghouse for a 21" Vizio TV. Go figure... In short, when it comes to dual displays I've always obtained the most reliable results with the widest range of displays when only using one display at a time. Optimal?-No. Acceptable for day to day use-yes.

Based on my NE browsing, it looks like the least expensive Asrock mobo with HDMI + DVI is $90 plus shipping. If the Gigabyte mobo wasn't discounted as part of a combo deal with the A4-3400 APU I'd go with the Asrock board but $23 in savings is-well-$23, and given that I don't know if this will be a long-term solution or not (Ivy Bridge?), I think it makes more sense to go with a low-cost AMD solution for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

I'm still putzing around researching H61/67 vs A55/75 and one thing I've noticed concerns dual digital video outputs.

First, you have spend more money to get two physical digital video connectors on an AMD MB than for an Intel MB.

In addition, at least some of the AMD MBs do NOT support two digital monitors active at the same time. For example, this Gigabyte MB specifically calls out (page 21):
Dual Display: DVI-D + HDMI Supported = No.
The GB manual at least calls this out: at least one another mfg's manual does NOT note this.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=llano

The reason for this limitation is implied in the page 8 block diagram in the GB manual. The diagram shows a switch between the APU and the HDMI and DVI connector.

This is a minus for me, because I figure that VGA connectors will eventually fade from future monitors and I plan on still having a dual monitor use for this MB someplace in the house in, say, five years. I'm basing this on systems that we currently have in the house/

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post #627 of 880 Old 09-26-2011, 12:25 PM
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This is why I think a cheap AMD A4 with near-term migration to Trinity is the better choice for me now, especially if no mobo swap will be required. If we were talking over a year for Trinity I would probably choose differently but given the Q2 2011 ETA (we hope ), I think it makes more sense at this point to skip the A8-3800.


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Originally Posted by Neimad View Post

Tell me about it -- I've got an Asus F1A75-I Deluxe sat at home and a Cooler Master Elite 100 case on the way but without a processor to go in it (and I'd specifically singled out the A8-3800) there doesn't seem much point.

I think the most frustrating thing about it is that the A8-3800 is supposed to be available already; it's not like the AM3+ situation where you can buy a motherboard for an as-yet unreleased processor...

If only AMD would give us some indication as to when we could expect them...

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post #628 of 880 Old 09-26-2011, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by elockett View Post

This is why I think a cheap AMD A4 with near-term migration to Trinity is the better choice for me now, especially if no mobo swap will be required. If we were talking over a year for Trinity I would probably choose differently but given the Q2 2011 ETA (we hope ), I think it makes more sense at this point to skip the A8-3800.

I had guestimated 2Q2012 earliest because I view Trinity as another iteration mainly targeted at laptops, where I think (I haven't checked, nor cared) AMD has made decent inroads this year.

The Trinity follow-up will help to defend AMD's gains (in laptops) from Intel's next iteration.

The desktop/HTPC market segment is just follow-on business.

However they (GloFo) should have more Llano capacity as they convert more of their 45 nm lines to 32 nm. But they'll need that if AMD's 32nm FX parts (Real Soon Now) are succesfull. Which I hope they are; good luck.

Note also that NE still lists only one sub-$60 A55 MB.
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post #630 of 880 Old 09-26-2011, 04:21 PM
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Thanks for the slides. I hope they meet their 3Q2011 availability in the next four days (Desktop Fusion FM1 APU Longevity). Still no 3800 on NE and the 3850 is still out of stock.

NOTE: A4-3300 does NOT appear on the slide, yet you can buy the 3300 from NE...

PS Where DOES that Turkish site get those slides?
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