AMD Llano - THE great HTPC chip? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

I'm pretty certain the Llano APUs are fabbed by GF @ 32nm and the model numbers given are for APUs for the Brazos platforms. So, this article is mostly gibberish...

But it does seem like the launch of the Llano motherboards & APU is getting close.

Here's a link to a google translated Swedish web page for another microATX Llano MB:
http://translate.google.com/translat...el-fm1-pa-bild

I sure hope that board is not a final product that thing is ugly. Hopefully just an ES.
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post #62 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
I sure hope that board is not a final product that thing is ugly. Hopefully just an ES.
Regarding final product: I assume you'll see final product at Computex 2011, which starts May 31.

Here's an example of Biostar announcing that they'll be showing A75 chipset motherboards. AFAIK, the A75 chip(set) is for Llano.
In addition "we also showcase a complete line-up of compact, all-in-one, cost effective motherboards that perfectly designed for Home Entertainment PC."

Competition marchs on.

Read more: http://vr-zone.com/computex/biostar-...#ixzz1MkgGLAhj
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post #63 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

See, that's the thing. H61/H67 motherboards aren't really all that expensive. You can get a decent LGA-1155 MB+i3-2100 for less than $200. Right now, I'm really digging the MSI H61M-E33 ($70) + Core i3-2100 pairing ($125) = $195.

Max I'm willing to pay for a quad-core Llano is $150. At that price, platform cost will probably already be a bit more than SB 2c using integrated graphics since I highly doubt we'll be seeing $50 socket FM1 motherboards upon release. If they price A6/A8 around $170~180, I'd rather go with H61 + i3-2100 + GT 430.

I see you conveniently left out the cost of a discrete card

Llano looks like it will easily kill all the reasons to get "htpc cards" such as GT430 @ $60+ and everything else in that range.

Anyways the actual price on release will solve the equation by itself.

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post #64 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 07:48 PM
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x-bit labs

Well, it's just a normal motherboard, nothing special. You can use a AM3 cooler for Socket FM1.
LL
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post #65 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 07:52 PM
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Llano顶级A8-3850曝光 主频为2.9Ghz. A bit slow (because of 65W?). There must be a higher-clocked "P" version with 100W TDP.
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post #66 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Llano顶级A8-3850曝光 主频为2.9Ghz. A bit slow (because of 65W?). There must be a higher-clocked "P" version with 100W TDP.

I hope those game charts don't convince AMD that they can charge as much as a quad core i5.

The sweet spot for a 2.9ghz llano would be under $150. It looks like it take a 3.6ghz amd quad core to match a 3.0ghz core i3.
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post #67 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

x-bit labs

Well, it's just a normal motherboard, nothing special. You can use a AM3 cooler for Socket FM1.

They need to copy intel and dump the legacy pci slots.
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post #68 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 08:13 PM
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post #69 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 08:16 PM
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what, that sucks. Most of the intel boards I have seen only have the new stuff, I hate legacy stuff.

This is what a board should look like, mATX two pci x16 and two pci express.
LL
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post #70 of 880 Old 05-18-2011, 08:19 PM
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Actually every Intel-brand SNB motherboard has at least one PCI slot.
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post #71 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aluminum View Post
I see you conveniently left out the cost of a discrete card

Llano looks like it will easily kill all the reasons to get "htpc cards" such as GT430 @ $60+ and everything else in that range.

Anyways the actual price on release will solve the equation by itself.
I didn't conveniently leave the cost of the discrete card out.

$125 i3-2100 + $60 GT 430 or HD 5570 or HD 5670 = $185

Motherboard cost would probably be around the same for both ($60~70). That's why I said if quad-core Llano costs $170~180 (same as the i5-2300), I'm giving it a pass. For me, it's not worth it at that price - not when the i3 paired with discrete graphics would probably perform better in most tasks bar heavily multi-threaded ones such as x264 and 3D rendering.
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post #72 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

I didn't conveniently leave the cost of the discrete card out.

$125 i3-2100 + $60 GT 430 or HD 5570 or HD 5670 = $185

Motherboard cost would probably be around the same for both ($60~70). That's why I said if quad-core Llano costs $170~180 (same as the i5-2300), I'm giving it a pass. For me, it's not worth it at that price - not when the i3 paired with discrete graphics would probably perform better in most tasks bar heavily multi-threaded ones such as x264 and 3D rendering.

I've held off on upgrading to see what the Llano value proposition is or to take advantage of the price drops in the existing 45 nm Phenoms/whatever. Though the existing two-chip chipset motherboards that are needed for the 45 nm CPUs can't drop in price much because they ARE two chip motherboards. It will be interesting to see what the pricing of A75 motherboards will be - I assume the A75s will undercut the Intel based ones by a little.

PS: I don't know why Intel still devotes circuitry on their "southbridge" chip for PCI, but they do. If Intel continues to do it, so will AMD. I have no use for the PCI slots and would much rather prefer PCIe slots.
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post #73 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 08:56 AM
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H61/H67/P67/Z68 does not support PCI any longer. Those mb with PCI slots have a PCIe to PCI bridge (what a waste!).
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post #74 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

PS: I don't know why Intel still devotes circuitry on their "southbridge" chip for PCI, but they do. If Intel continues to do it, so will AMD. I have no use for the PCI slots and would much rather prefer PCIe slots.

Didn't they remove legacy PCI support from their latest chipsets (bar business oriented B and Q ones)?

Intel's P67, H67 and H61 chipsets will lack native PCI support

I do agree on the waiting part, though. I really don't see A75 motherboards being all that cheap, at least initially. Eventually, we might see them for $50 or so but not upon release. Still, AMD could very well decide to price the A6/A8 SKU's for $150 less and I'd be more than happy to pay that. *sigh* Wish there were more leaks on Llano with regards to performance and pricing.
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post #75 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 09:03 AM
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- Support For Socket FM1 100W Processors
- AMD A75 Hudson D3 Chipset Supports Native 6 x SATA3, 4 x USB 3.0
- 2 x SATA3 by a third-party chip
- Supports AMD QuadCrossFireX, Dual Graphics
- ASRock XFast USB
- ASRock On/Off Play
- Graphical UEFI
- Cyberlink MedisEspresso 6.5 Trial

From the picture, the mb has 3 PCIe x16 slots (perhaps x8, x8, x4). To call it Extreme, the processor is too weak, unfortunately.
LL
LL
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post #76 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

To call it Extreme, the processor is too weak, unfortunately.

Unfortunately true, unless Llano can overclock crazy mad.
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post #77 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 09:20 AM
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post #78 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Didn't they remove legacy PCI support from their latest chipsets (bar business oriented B and Q ones)?

Intel's P67, H67 and H61 chipsets will lack native PCI support

I do agree on the waiting part, though. I really don't see A75 motherboards being all that cheap, at least initially. Eventually, we might see them for $50 or so but not upon release. Still, AMD could very well decide to price the A6/A8 SKU's for $150 less and I'd be more than happy to pay that. *sigh* Wish there were more leaks on Llano with regards to performance and pricing.

Thanks for the Semi-Accurate blurb.
I pulled down the 900+ page H611 datasheet, something that AMD does not make public.

The legacy PCI Interface does not appear on the simple H61 block diagram. However,
Intel is doing something new to me, namely including legacy PCI or not. From the datasheet, page 58:

2.3 PCI Interface
Note: PCI Interface is only available on PCI Interface-enabled SKUs. However certain PCI Interface signal functionality is available on PCI Interface-disable SKUs, as described below (see Section 1.3 for full details on SKU definition).

And then it goes on to describe the PCI signals or their alternate use for a few of the signals if the part is a PCI Interface-disable SKU.

WRT performance and pricing leaks, I assume there will be more leaks (some dubious) before Computex. Still, a 2.9 GHz A8-3850 should be faster than the 2.6 GHz tri-core Phenom/whatever I'm typing on now.
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post #79 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 10:02 AM
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Check pages 51-53.

- Q67, Q65, B65 (business platform), C202, C204, C206 (server) supports PCI.
- H61, H67, P67, Z68 (desktop) does not support PCI.

Check also, for example, Intel® Desktop Board DH67GD technical product specification, page 13. You will see "PCIe to PCI Bridge" (it's a third-party chip, of course).
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post #80 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Check pages 51-53.

- Q67, Q65, B65 (business platform), C202, C204, C206 (server) supports PCI.
- H61, H67, P67, Z68 (desktop) does not support PCI.

Check also, for example, Intel® Desktop Board DH67GD technical product specification, page 13. You will see "PCIe to PCI Bridge" (it's a third-party chip, of course).

Thanks for the corrections and the increase in my knowledge. I think this was the first time I had looked at this chip(set) series documentation. So the the little pop-up .gif block diagram for the H61 is correct: no legacy PCi.

So Intel is doing greater product differentiation than AMD is doing with these APU chipsets.

Have there been any Asrock microATX A75 MBs announced or leaked? The AsRock A75 Extreme6 seems overkill/expensive for my needs.
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post #81 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

So Intel is doing greater product differentiation than AMD is doing with these APU chipsets.

Intel has had those product differentiation for a while. At the very least, since the Bearlake 30-series chipsets. They actually seem to have fewer desktop chipsets now compared to before:

G31
G33
G35
P31
P35
Q33
Q35
X38
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post #82 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Intel has had those product differentiation for a while. At the very least, since the Bearlake 30-series chipsets. They actually seem to have fewer desktop chipsets now compared to before:

G31
G33
G35
P31
P35
Q33
Q35
X38

Yeah, you're right on the product differentiation: I own an Intel P35 based MB. I forget the the reason I bought the P35 specifically.

i really should have stated legacy PCI or no legacy PCI added to the product differentiation.

So, I couldn't figure it out quickly: does the A75 GCH have legacy PCI?
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post #83 of 880 Old 05-19-2011, 04:54 PM
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post #84 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Look at my previous post. A75 (Hudson D3) supports 3 PCI slots.

Thanks.

Any Llano mATX photos yet?
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post #85 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 07:53 AM
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Looks like Llano and Bulldozer prices leaked. I don't know how reliable the source is and I don't read Chinese.
http://diybbs.zol.com.cn/10/11_99045.html

$170 A8-3550P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$150 A8-3550 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$130 A6-3450P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$110 A6-3450 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$80 A4-3350 2MBDDR3-1866 65W R6410-160SPUs-594MHz
$70 E2-3250 1MB DDR3-1600 65W R6370-160SPUs-443MHz

And they price Bulldozer a bit higher than Sandy Bridge.

EDIT: here is link to other site that has spec table: http://wccftech.com/2011/05/20/amd-b...mation-leaked/
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post #86 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micksh View Post

Looks like Llano and Bulldozer prices leaked. I don't know how reliable the source is and I don't read Chinese.
http://diybbs.zol.com.cn/10/11_99045.html

$170 A8-3550P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$150 A8-3550 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$130 A6-3450P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$110 A6-3450 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$80 A4-3350 2MBDDR3-1866 65W R6410-160SPUs-594MHz
$70 E2-3250 1MB DDR3-1600 65W R6370-160SPUs-443MHz

And they price Bulldozer a bit higher than Sandy Bridge.

EDIT: here is link to other site that has spec table: http://wccftech.com/2011/05/20/amd-b...mation-leaked/

Thanks!

I'm a bottom feeder, so the A6-3450 is in my price range. The ~$110 price for a quad core of unknown clock speed and an iGPU seems OK.
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post #87 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micksh View Post

$170 A8-3550P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$150 A8-3550 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$130 A6-3450P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$110 A6-3450 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$80 A4-3350 2MBDDR3-1866 65W R6410-160SPUs-594MHz
$70 E2-3250 1MB DDR3-1600 65W R6370-160SPUs-443MHz

Nice find. With Intel releasing the Core i3-2120K, though, I can see the A8-3550P dropping down to $150~160. The dual-core models are priced higher than I would've liked. Of course, if motherboard prices are lower than 880G, etc, then that makes up for the higher CPU prices. Lol, the A8-3550 looks like it fits right within my strike zone. Hopefully, retail pricing follows the above or is lower.

Still undecided if it's worth the extra $40 going from A6-3450 to A8-3550, though. For an extra $20, the HD 5670 can be found for $60 and is bound to deliver much more significant performance increase. I'd probably go either A75+A6-3450 or H61/H67+i3-2100+HD 5670.
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post #88 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 08:37 AM
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Bulldozer higher than sandy bridge, that's interesting. I wonder if its performing better than initially thought.

You know if we find out the A4 can handle 1080p60 it might be the ultimate bargain HTPC setup. I can't wait for the reviews.
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post #89 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Bulldozer higher than sandy bridge, that's interesting. I wonder if its performing better than initially thought.

We'll see. It could very well be a similar case to the Phenom II X6 which dropped prices quickly due to lower single-threaded performance compared to Nehalem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

You know if we find out the A4 can handle 1080p60 it might be the ultimate bargain HTPC setup. I can't wait for the reviews.

Assuming motherboard prices are on par with current 2-chipset boards (e.g. 880G, 890GX), not really enamored by any of the dual-core offerings. You basically get Athlon II X2 CPU performance paired with a GPU that's probably half of the HD 5550. It's already been mentioned (by jakmal, I think) that the HD 6450 can't handle full decode of 1080p60 so I doubt the HD 6370 or 6410 will do any better. From all the Llano SKU's, I think the A6-3450 offers the best value.
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post #90 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

We'll see. It could very well be a similar case to the Phenom II X6 which dropped prices quickly due to lower single-threaded performance compared to Nehalem.


Assuming motherboard prices are on par with current 2-chipset boards (e.g. 880G, 890GX), not really enamored by any of the dual-core offerings. You basically get Athlon II X2 CPU performance paired with a GPU that's probably half of the HD 5550. It's already been mentioned (by jakmal, I think) that the HD 6450 can't handle full decode of 1080p60 so I doubt the HD 6370 or 6410 will do any better. From all the Llano SKU's, I think the A6-3450 offers the best value.

I'm probably going to end up buying the $130 A6-3450P to replace my aging athlon II X2 DDR2 desktop. It should more than double my speed and make a good replacement for my zacate HTPC system in a couple of years when I buy the next wiz bang desktop cpu. Then my zacate will function as my DVR, home automation, and NAS at low power. Oh yeah

By the way, I'm thinking it will be a couple of years before 1080p60 might be a significant portion of the broadcast.
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