AMD Llano - THE great HTPC chip? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 09:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

By the way, I'm thinking it will be a couple of years before 1080p60 might be a significant portion of the broadcast.

Broadcast, I actually don't see that happening anywhere within 10 years time. However, I do see more and more people getting 1080p60 capable AVC HD cameras. The TM90K I was eying dropped to $460 on Amazon a couple of days ago. It's back up to $535 now so I'm just waiting for prices to drop down again before I buy.
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post #92 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 10:37 AM
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Yes, 60p broadcast is too far away. AFAIK current ATSC tuners are no good for that and neither are studio and broadcasting equipment.
I think at this point there are only rumors that James Cameron is planning to shoot Avatar 2 in 48p or 60p. But even that would require new blu-ray standard and BD player replacement for home viewing. Probably not realistic.

But for camcoders it's a reality. And soon it will be popular for still cameras too, they improve video capabilities quickly.
Sony has DSC-HX100V and DSC-HX9V compacts that record in 1080/60p. Latest Panasonic micro 4/3 sensor can output 1080/60p but AFAIK recording is limited to 60i (probably because of processing limitations?).
Besides, two years ago Casio had FS10 compact that recorded 210 fps (at 360p).

And no, AMD HD 6310 can't handle 60p.
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post #93 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

...


Assuming motherboard prices are on par with current 2-chipset boards (e.g. 880G, 890GX), not really enamored by any of the dual-core offerings. You basically get Athlon II X2 CPU performance paired with a GPU that's probably half of the HD 5550. It's already been mentioned (by jakmal, I think) that the HD 6450 can't handle full decode of 1080p60 so I doubt the HD 6370 or 6410 will do any better. From all the Llano SKU's, I think the A6-3450 offers the best value.

Regarding A75-based mATX MB prices I'd expect them to be in the H61 range or below. Picking products with HDMI connectors from NE, that seems to be ~$70. Some of these H61 mATX MBs also have USB 3.0 AND legacy PCI slot(s), which are both implemented via third-party chips.
So, since the A75 integrates these functions, I assume an A75 MB can sell for even less than $70.

Note: The MSI MB I looked at uses an Asmedia Technology PCIe-to-PCI bridge to create the legacy PCI slot. I had not heard of Asmedia Tech till now.
But, the Taiwanese marketing people think customers still WANT PCI slots, since they're adding extra cost to their MBs to give them these legacy slot(s)...

SO, where are the photos of the A75 based mATX MBs? The reason I keep bringing this up is that all I've seen for mATX is the feature list for the ECS ones, and there is no mention of how many PCIex1 or legacy PCI slots ECS has implemnted, if any.

According to the ECS web site, they both have the Hudson D3 chipset and the A75F-M has:
4xDDR3, 4xUSB 3.0, 6xSATA 6.0Gb/s, 1xPCIex16, HDMI/DVI/D-Sub, 8-Ch HD Audio with S/PDIF

whereas the A75F-M2 has less:
2xDDR3, 4xUSB 3.0, 6xSATA 6.0 Gb/s, 1PCIex16, HDMI/DVI(Optional)/D-Sub, 6-Ch HD Audio
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post #94 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micksh View Post

Yes, 60p broadcast is too far away. AFAIK current ATSC tuners are no good for that and neither are studio and broadcasting equipment.
I think at this point there are only rumors that James Cameron is planning to shoot Avatar 2 in 48p or 60p. But even that would require new blu-ray standard and BD player replacement for home viewing. Probably not realistic.

But for camcoders it's a reality. And soon it will be popular for still cameras too, they improve video capabilities quickly.
Sony has DSC-HX100V and DSC-HX9V compacts that record in 1080/60p. Latest Panasonic micro 4/3 sensor can output 1080/60p but AFAIK recording is limited to 60i (probably because of processing limitations?).
Besides, two years ago Casio had FS10 compact that recorded 210 fps (at 360p).


And no, AMD HD 6310 can't handle 60p.

I'm not familiar with 60P, but both ATSC and the QAM cableTV standards have a fixed amount of bandwidth available, so these broadacst methods (terrestrial OTA, cable TV) would require new standards to accomodate the increased bitrate that 60P should require.

AFAIK
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post #95 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Regarding A75-based mATX MB prices I'd expect them to be in the H61 range or below. Picking products with HDMI connectors from NE, that seems to be ~$70. Some of these H61 mATX MBs also have USB 3.0 AND legacy PCI slot(s), which are both implemented via third-party chips.
So, since the A75 integrates these functions, I assume an A75 MB can sell for even less than $70.

The only way I'd buy the A8-3550 is if you can buy an A75 motherboard for $40~50 - something I don't see happening so soon after release (if I'm wrong about this, I'd be very happy). If A75 mobo prices are at $60~70, I'd go with either the A6-3450, $110 + A75, $60~70 (total cost: $170~180) or the more capable i3-2100, $125 + MSI H61, $70 + GT 430, $60 (total cost: $255).
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post #96 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

The only way I'd buy the A8-3550 is if you can buy an A75 motherboard for $40~50 - something I don't see happening so soon after release (if I'm wrong about this, I'd be very happy). If A75 mobo prices are at $60~70, I'd go with either the A6-3450, $110 + A75, $60~70 (total cost: $170~180) or the more capable i3-2100, $125 + MSI H61, $70 + GT 430, $60 (total cost: $255).

Llano should be lower power than a i3-2100/gt 430 system, but either one should perform great. Llano should outperform a pure i3-2100 in the HTPC arena and even be able to handle some gaming. From my estimations the quad core Llano should be a match for the i3 2100 in pure cpu functions at 3.5ish ghz. Core i5 + discrete graphics against Llano wont be pretty.
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post #97 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Llano should be lower power than a i3-2100/gt 430 system, but either one should perform great. Llano should outperform a pure i3-2100 in the HTPC arena and even be able to handle some gaming. From my estimations the quad core Llano should be a match for the i3 2100 in pure cpu functions at 3.5ish ghz. Core i5 + discrete graphics against Llano wont be pretty.

The i3-2100/GT 430 would beat Llano in gaming unless AMD has developed something akin to sideport memory for Llano. As it is, the GT 430 can already be too slow at times. Alas, while the much faster HD 5670 can be had for the same price, I like CUDA support on the GT 430. As for a 3.5 GHz Llano matching the i3-2100 3.1 GHz - it won't for the things I'll be using it for. For pretty much the only application I run that requires CPU power (PCSX2), the Athlon II @ 3.6 GHz performs equivalent to a Core i3 Clarkdale @ 2.93 GHz.

The only reason I want Llano is for gaming. For a pure playback HTPC, the i3-2100's integrated graphics (heck, even Pentium G620) is enough for me. If Intel's OpenGL2 support weren't so crappy, I'd probably be fine with that for ePSXe emulation, too (and just give up on PCSX2 for now).
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post #98 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by micksh View Post

Looks like Llano and Bulldozer prices leaked. I don't know how reliable the source is and I don't read Chinese.
http://diybbs.zol.com.cn/10/11_99045.html

$170 A8-3550P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$150 A8-3550 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6550-400SPUs-594MHz
$130 A6-3450P 4MB DDR3-1866 100W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$110 A6-3450 4MB DDR3-1866 65W 1000mln 226mm2 R6530-320SPUs-443MHz
$80 A4-3350 2MBDDR3-1866 65W R6410-160SPUs-594MHz
$70 E2-3250 1MB DDR3-1600 65W R6370-160SPUs-443MHz

Somebody created a nice table.


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post #99 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Somebody[/url] created a nice table.

Yeah, I know. This table is also at English site http://wccftech.com/2011/05/20/amd-b...mation-leaked/ (now many sites probably copied it), I added link to that later to my post, just didn't embed the image.

The text table that you quoted I copy-pasted from some Russian forum discussing news on that Chinese site. Note transistor count and die size missing in other sources. I have no idea if this is true or not, I could not find any other source confirming it.

If it's true, top Llano has 1B transistors and 226mm2 die size. For comparison, top quad-core Sandy Bridge has 1.16B transistors and 216mm2 die. Dual-core, 4-thread SB has 624M and 149mm2 (with full GT2 graphics).
So, it looks like Llano is more expensive to produce than i7 but it seems to compete (in terms of CPU power) with i3 which should cost a lot cheaper to make. Hopefully, better AMD GPU will justify it for masses.

And also, if you decide to trust that Chinese forum, there are some Bulldozer benchmarks
http://translate.google.com/translat...F11_99072.html
Shortly, Bulldozer beats i7-2600K but loses to i7-990X at stock in Cinebench 11.5. Bulldozer seems to beat both these i7s in Cinebench 10.
Again, I have no idea which Bulldozer model was used (I guess the top one) and whether it was overclocked or not. Maybe someone who can read Chinese will tell better.
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post #100 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 08:44 PM
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If the 8 core bulldozer is right around the 2600k this will be a pretty huge fail for amd imo. Tons of hype around these chips. Hopefully we will find out sooner then later.

There isn't an official release date yet is there?
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post #101 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 09:19 PM
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Actually the CPU core of Llano is much smaller than the CPU core of SNB.

- K10 core (only 9.6mm^2) + 1MB cache + power gating: 17.7mm^2
- SNB core: 20mm^2

GPU is noticeably larger.


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post #102 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

If the 8 core bulldozer is right around the 2600k this will be a pretty huge fail for amd imo. Tons of hype around these chips. Hopefully we will find out sooner then later.

There isn't an official release date yet is there?

Why a huge fail? If $320 Zambezi beats not only $317 Core i7-2600K but $999 Core i7-990X (in Cinebench 10), it's hard to call it a huge fail.
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post #103 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Why a huge fail? If $320 Zambezi beats not only $317 Core i7-2600K but $999 Core i7-990X (in Cinebench 10), it's hard to call it a huge fail.

Beats the 2600k by what. 5-10% with 4 more cores. Then imo it will be a fail. Lots of hype with amd sending their marketers to forums like OCN and making blogs for months now. I would like to see them trump intel for real, not just a little bit. And I'm sure clock for clock intel will still be king regardless. Hopefully I am wrong though.
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post #104 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 10:14 PM
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OK, I understand your point. "8 core" - this is somewhat tricky. The 8-core Zambezi (desktop)/Valencia (server) (= Orochi) actually consists of 4 Bulldozer modules. Each modules has 2 integer cores and 1 floating point units. So 4 x 2 integer cores = 8 integer cores, with 4 FPU.

As for die size, Zambezi is < 300mm^2. It's surely larger than SNB, but remember that Lynnfield is 296mm^2. A correct die shot of the 8-core Zambezi below. You see only 4 modules and perhaps you can't tell easily where these 8 cores are.

and Bulldozer module:


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post #105 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 10:23 PM
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Yah I have read that before but they are marketing it as 8 true cores. Or 8 physical cores.
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post #106 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 10:35 PM
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Forget about these stupid blogs, you won't get anything substantial (i.e. real knowledge). If you want to get up-to-date, precise, unbiased, substantial knowledge, I strongly recommend you to read Goto's articles at PC Watch. You are not able to find similar information anywhere else (unless you work for AMD/Intel). (I am sorry that it's available only in Japanese.) For example, read more on Multithreading Architecture. Basically

4 modules / 8 integer cores in Orochi ~ ("is equivalent to") 4 cores / 8 threads in Sandy Bridge

The die size of the Bulldozer *module* is slightly larger than the SNB *core*. AMD wanted to call it 8 cores for a reason, but the cores are far from independent dual core (so-called "chip multiprocessor") as lots of resources are shared between the two (see the picture below). It is somewhere between dual core and HT core. Saying Orochi 8 core is not significantly better than SNB 4 core is like saying Radeon HD 6850 960 stream processors is not significantly better than GTX 460 336 stream processors; you can't compare just the number of sp without considering the architectural differences (not a good analogy, of course).

Anyway if Zambezi $320 (1 x Orochi die = 4 modules 8 cores) beats Sandy Bridge $317 (4 cores 8 threads), the mission is accomplished. If Interlagos (2 x Orochi die = 8 modules 16 cores) beats Sandy Bridge-E (8 cores 16 threads), another mission will be accomplished. But Intel IVB will beat Zambezi easily, and so on.


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post #107 of 880 Old 05-20-2011, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Yah I have read that before but they are marketing it as 8 true cores. Or 8 physical cores.

It was widely known that 8-core Bulldozer would not be full 8-core since year 2009 - http://www.anandtech.com/show/2881 . 4 modules, 1 floating point and 2 integer processing unis for each (simplifying).
Depending on how much floating point is used in application Bulldozer would show results between 4-8 of real cores.
On the other hand, Intel Hyper-threading works pretty well in SB, it would show performance between 4.5 and 6 real cores.

Then, in single-threaded applications AMD was too far behind Intel since Nehalem. AMD must have improved a bit but it would be unreasonable to believe that AMD would trump Intel considering their R&D budgets.
So, in the end, I have no idea if benchmarks are real but I think they must be close to truth. In different applications results may vary a bit.

What it means in grand scheme of things, I believe, is that Intel won't raise prices on their i7 CPUs. AMD is still in game. Intel will not want to go in serious price war with AMD. Regular periodical $10-20 discounts don't count.

And Llano hopefully will gain some traction being good enough solution for more people. That is only if major PC makers realize that. It depends on AMD marketing too. You know, it's not unusual to find a Sandy Bridge box from Dell or HP with HD6450 discrete card. Why? I don't know. I don't understand their reasons but this is what most people will buy.

Maybe Llano will be a good HTPC chip but we, HTPC people, are minority. And no chips with TDP lower than 65W so far, this is also discouraging.
I don't expect any drastic changes after Llano/Bulldozer launch, but time will tell.
And in mobile sector Intel has a solid roadmap now, can't tell that about AMD.
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post #108 of 880 Old 05-21-2011, 01:26 AM
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And SB-based Pentiums should be released in the next few days (May 22nd?). G620 may cost even less than the cheapest Llano. H61 motherboards are starting at $60. I guess it can't be worse than Core i3 for 23.976Hz playback, otherwise should be just fine for HTPC, unless Intel crippled something. Will see that sooner than Llano appears.
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post #109 of 880 Old 05-21-2011, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by micksh View Post



And Llano hopefully will gain some traction being good enough solution for more people. That is only if major PC makers realize that. It depends on AMD marketing too. You know, it's not unusual to find a Sandy Bridge box from Dell or HP with HD6450 discrete card. Why? I don't know. I don't understand their reasons but this is what most people will buy.

AMD.

Regarding "AMD marketing" and "what most people will buy": why do MB makers STILL add legacy PCI slots to their current MBs? I mention AMD marketing because they're the people who had legacy PCI included in the A75 FCH. This allows MB mfgs to add legacy PCI for the cost of the PCI connectors, whereas the H61 based MBs also have the cost of the PCIe to PCI bridge chip.
I filtered the NE H61 MB search to include HDMI and this drives up the price to $70...
Do AMD marketing people expect something to be plugged into the legacy PCI slots? If so, what?

And yet again, where are the photos of Llano mATX motherboards, or at least full add-in card slot descriptions?
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post #110 of 880 Old 05-21-2011, 10:50 AM
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You don't like that ASL motherboard earlier in this thread? Can't find more, only full ATX from ASRock popped up recently
http://www.techpowerup.com/146081/AS...-Pictured.html

Some still need PCI. I have old PCI DVB-S2 satellite card. WMC-compatible cards like this are difficult to find and they cost more than entry-level motherboards. Some have audiophile audio cards, other old stuff. It just allows wider range of peripherals.

PCIe-to-PCI bridge chip must be cheap. Although 3 PCI slots are overkill. I would like to have more PCIe 1x or 4x instead. But if you start counting available PCIe lanes you may find that, for example, all 8 chipset PCIe lanes are already utilized on high-end Sandy Bridge ATX motherboards.

And I hate when motherboard makers make sure that PCIe 1x slots are obstructed by dual-slot graphics cards, like on that ECS ATX MB earlier from this thread. ECS A75F-A design is stupid.
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post #111 of 880 Old 05-21-2011, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micksh View Post

You don't like that ASL motherboard earlier in this thread? Can't find more, only full ATX from ASRock popped up recently
http://www.techpowerup.com/146081/AS...-Pictured.html

Some still need PCI. I have old PCI DVB-S2 satellite card. WMC-compatible cards like this are difficult to find and they cost more than entry-level motherboards. Some have audiophile audio cards, other old stuff. It just allows wider range of peripherals.

PCIe-to-PCI bridge chip must be cheap. Although 3 PCI slots are overkill. I would like to have more PCIe 1x or 4x instead. But if you start counting available PCIe lanes you may find that, for example, all 8 chipset PCIe lanes are already utilized on high-end Sandy Bridge ATX motherboards.

WRT mini-ITX: No, I want a microATX for compatibility with existing infrastucture. The system for upgrade has another video card (3 displays) and a TV tuner card.

WRT legacy PCI: Yeah, I assume they are included for customer ease/satisfation. Inclusion of a legacy PCI slot or two prevents return of systems purchased by people with old cards. I'm sure most of the desktop PC buying population does not know the difference between PCI and PCIexpress, they just expect an older card to work in their new system

Based upon some of the previous Intel comments I took a deeper look at the core i3 CPUs (and their MBs) to compare them to the upcoming Llanos. The least expensive i3 is $115 @ NE. At a real simple comparison level, I assume that the corresponding four-thread AMD A6-3450 should also have a clock speed of ~3.1 GHz. I'm looking at four thread CPUs/APUs/whatever because I'd like to buy something "better" than the triple core Phenoms I have now.
What do you think about this ~clock speed/price equality reasoning?
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post #112 of 880 Old 05-21-2011, 01:54 PM
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To some posters: see title

Anyways, PCI is mostly "free" since its on the MCH, saves cost and pcb space over bridges. Bridges often have other obscure problems as well.

I'll take an ITX with x16 and a minicard slot though, that is perfect for a htpc build with cpu+non terrible gpu in a single socket.

mATX with full x16, two x1 and a single PCI is "ok": PCI is long in the tooth and theres almost always a newer and better express model.

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post #113 of 880 Old 05-21-2011, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aluminum View Post

To some posters: see title

Actually Bulldozer is not totally unrelated to Llano. Remember that the successor to Llano (Trinity) in 2012 will use 2 Bulldozer modules (4 cores). Understanding the Bulldozer module correctly is important if you want to understand AMD APU architecture correctly. Llano with older K10 cores is just a temporary solution.

MCH -> FCH? Memory controller is on the chip (since 2003).
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post #114 of 880 Old 05-21-2011, 08:51 PM
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Source. Note that the figure does not look correct in two points:

- AMD A-Series APU has PCI Express 2.0 x20 lanes.
- The platform supports HDMI 1.4a video.

PCI Express

The number of PCI Express 2.0 lanes:

- Llano APU: 20
- Hudson D3 FCH: 4
- Total: 24

APU and FCH are connected by PCI Express 2.0 x4 link + DisplayPort 1.1a (called Unified Media Interface, UMI), but this is not counted. 24 is the same number as the SNB platform. The difference is that

- No need of USB 3.0 controller
- No need of PCIe to PCI bridge
- No need of Gb LAN controller (only PHY is necessary; actually this is also the case of Intel, but most mb uses a Realtek Gb LAN controller instead of a pricey Intel PHY.)

A typical microATX mb uses these lanes like this:

- 1 x PCI Express x16 slot
- 2 x PCI Express x1 slot
- Total 17

or

- 1 x PCI Express x16 slot
- 1 x PCI Express x4 slot
- 2 x PCI Express x1 slot
- Total 21

or (high-end, as well as high-end ATX)

- 2 x PCI Express x8 slot
- 1 x PCI Express x4 slot
- 1 x PCI Express x1 slot
- 2-port SATA 6Gb/s controller
- IEEE 1394 controller
- Total 23

Let's look at ASRock A75 Extreme6 ATX mb. According to TechPowerUp!, the mb has

- 2 x PCIe x8 slot
- 1 x PCIe x4 slot (connected to A75)
- 1 x PCIe x1 slot
- 2-port SATA 6Gbps controller (2 internal SATA ports, in addition to the native 6 SATA ports)
- 2-port SATA 3 or 6 Gbps controller (2 eSATA ports in rear)
- 2-port USB 3.0 controller (2 ports in rear, in addition to native 2 ports in rear and 2 ports onboard)
- IEEE 1394 controller on either PCI or PCI Express bus

If you add all, it consumes 24 or 25 PCIe lanes. As the total number is limited to 24, perhaps IEEE 1394 controller is a PCI version. Just my guess.
LL
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post #115 of 880 Old 05-22-2011, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The number of PCI Express lanes:

- Llano APU: 20
- Hudson D3 FCH: 4
- Total: 24

APU and FCH are connected by PCI Express x4 link (A-Link Express III), but this is not counted. 24 is the same number as the SNB platform. The difference is that

- No need of USB 3.0 controller
- No need of PCIe to PCI bridge

A typical microATX mb uses these lanes like this:

- 1 x PCI Express x16 slot
- 2 x PCI Express x1 slot
- Gb LAN controller
- Total 18

or

- 1 x PCI Express x16 slot
- 1 x PCI Express x4 slot
- 2 x PCI Express x1 slot
- Gb LAN controller
- Total 22

or (high-end, as well as high-end ATX)

- 2 x PCI Express x8 slot
- 1 x PCI Express x4 slot
- 1 x PCI Express x1 slot
- Gb LAN controller
- IEEE 1394 controller
- 2-port SATA 6Gb/s controller
- Total 24

Let's look at ASRock A75 Extreme6 ATX mb. According to TechPowerUp!, the mb has

- 2 x PCIe x8 slots
- 1 x PCIe x4 slot (connected to A75)
- 1 x PCIe x1 slot
- 2-port SATA 6Gbps controller (2 internal SATA ports, in addition to the native 6 SATA ports)
- 2-port SATA 3 or 6 Gbps controller (2 eSATA ports in rear)
- 2-port USB 3.0 controller (2 ports in rear, in addition to native 2 ports in rear and 2 ports onboard)
- IEEE 1394 controller; is this PCI or PCI Express?
- Gb LAN controller

If you add all, it consumes 26 PCIe lanes! So there must be a trick (as usual), e.g. it may have a PCI Express switch such as PEX8608.

I'm not interested in the A75 based ATX MB we know about, but thank you for doing the math.

Just to verify: the A75 doesn't have an on-die GbE controller?

Another question: does ay A75 FCH variant have RAID5 capability, like the SB 750/850/950 do?
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post #116 of 880 Old 05-22-2011, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

I'm not interested in the A75 based ATX MB we know about, but thank you for doing the math.

Just to verify: the A75 doesn't have an on-die GbE controller?

Another question: does ay A75 FCH variant have RAID5 capability, like the SB 750/850/950 do?

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post #117 of 880 Old 05-22-2011, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

I'm not interested in the A75 based ATX MB we know about, but thank you for doing the math.

Just to verify: the A75 doesn't have an on-die GbE controller?

Another question: does ay A75 FCH variant have RAID5 capability, like the SB 750/850/950 do?

That's a good question. If so, only Gb LAN PHY is necessary (as in NVIDIA nForce chipsets). A75 does not support RAID 5. BTW the post above is not particularly addressed to you. It's just for my personal reference.
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post #118 of 880 Old 05-22-2011, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post


Thanks for the chart.

So the Llano variants have onboard triple speed MACs, which is good.

WRT RAID5, only the less expensive, lower performance Ontario/Zacate APUs (Brazos AES platform) can have RAID5? this would mean that low performance and high performance platforms could have RAID5, but not the middle?

Is my interpretation correct?

PS: The chart dates at least to Dec '10 and Fudzilla! states that "some aspects of its [Hudson-E1] spec are not finalized yet", so maybe the RAID5 was just an AMD marketing brainfart...
And the Jetway Brazos mini-ITX NC85 manual (update 3/11) claims it uses the Hudson-E1 and there is no mention of any RAID capability.
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post #119 of 880 Old 05-22-2011, 09:50 AM
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Brazos AES is an oddball, but the E stands for embedded which would explain the odd feature set. You probably won't see normal boards with this chipset.

Also a lot of board vendors don't use onboard MAC with a PHY, e.g. on a lot of intel chipsets it ends up cheaper to use a full realtek controller. Its actually a pain since intel has better drivers/less bugs/etc.

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post #120 of 880 Old 05-22-2011, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Aluminum View Post

Also a lot of board vendors don't use onboard MAC with a PHY, e.g. on a lot of intel chipsets it ends up cheaper to use a full realtek controller. Its actually a pain since intel has better drivers/less bugs/etc.

If you remember nForce chipsets, every nForce mb had a Ethernet PHY (mostly Realtek) + integrated MAC. I guess most A75 mb will also have a Ethernet PHY.
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