AMD Llano - THE great HTPC chip? - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 880 Old 05-28-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

This Chinese forum has alleged CPU-Z screenshots, @ 4 GHz, along with interesting translation, such as

"If it is true, ah, other assessments, the way the sofa ~"
Maybe something to ponder with a beer in the backyard, while admiring the flowers:

http://diybbs.zol.com.cn/10/11_99185.html

Huh, at 4ghz it should beat core i3.
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post #152 of 880 Old 05-28-2011, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

A quick look at Gigabyte's A75 motherboards by VR-Zone

GIGABYTE GA-A75M-UD2H AMD A75 chipset microATX mb is pictured. This is very different from those at the Greek site!

The Gigabyte GA-A75M-UDH on the Greek site is silkscreened Rev 1.0; the Vr-Zone one is Rev 0.1.
To me, the Rev 1.0 MB makes more sense for it's add-in card slot mix.
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post #153 of 880 Old 05-28-2011, 06:32 PM
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I am liking how much real estate the tiny hub frees up on board, compared to the 1155 itx boards it definitely looks like they have more room to work with.

The memory slot position on that asrock is new. Rectangular heatsink profile versus the square too. Usb 3.0 in the A75 saves another chip. Should be real interesting what all the different vendors do with layouts.

Can't wait to see boards from someone like asus or zotac, with a minicard slot of course.

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PS: Does the Llano mean that AMD has ended their development of IGPs in the chip(set), i.e. is the 890GX the last and best IGP chip(set) AMD will make?
Yeah, I thought that was a given. IGP was always a low-mid range thing, its wasted transistors paired with discrete cards. (hybrd multi-gpu was always bleh) Bulldozer with only an IGP (AM3+) will be a platform for people that just need monitor outputs

Theres no doubt even the lowest llano (160SP) smokes a 890GX/4290 (40SP) sideport or not. I can't be bothered to check but if you can eliminate the cpu differences I bet the brazos gpu (80SP) wins too.

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post #154 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Aluminum View Post



Yeah, I thought that was a given. IGP was always a low-mid range thing, its wasted transistors paired with discrete cards. (hybrd multi-gpu was always bleh) Bulldozer with only an IGP (AM3+) will be a platform for people that just need monitor outputs

Theres no doubt even the lowest llano (160SP) smokes a 890GX/4290 (40SP) sideport or not. I can't be bothered to check but if you can eliminate the cpu differences I bet the brazos gpu (80SP) wins too.

Thx. I started buying AMD IGPs a few years ago and just continued. I did look more closely at the 890GX in the last couple of days. If you strip away the mktg labels, it looks like basically a slightly souped-up 780G. Of which I have at least two.

I was looking for something to replace this desktop I'm typing on, and a desktop Llano seemed to fit the bill, but then I discovered the FCH did not have RAID5.

Speaking of IGP paired w/ a discrete card being "wasted transistors paired with discrete cards. (hybrd multi-gpu was always bleh)", would I get improved playback by adding a HD6450 to a 880G/890GX? I need three monitors...
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post #155 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Thx. I started buying AMD IGPs a few years ago and just continued. I did look more closely at the 890GX in the last couple of days. If you strip away the mktg labels, it looks like basically a slightly souped-up 780G. Of which I have at least two.

I was looking for something to replace this desktop I'm typing on, and a desktop Llano seemed to fit the bill, but then I discovered the FCH did not have RAID5.

Speaking of IGP paired w/ a discrte card being "wasted transistors paired with discrete cards. (hybrd multi-gpu was always bleh)", would I get improved playback by adding a HD6450 to a 880G/890GX? I need three monitors...

Llano should be able to do the SLI thing with a discrete radeon card so it isn't exactly wasted transistors. Still with a discrete card the transistors probably would be better spent on more cpu cores. Intel is the way to go if you want discrete graphics, at least until we see what bulldozer does.
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post #156 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 09:56 AM
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I am definitely anxious for Llano to come out. My current Clarkdale core i5 Mini-ITX HTPC needs to be upgraded to support BluRay 3D. I could go with SB but honestly I don't feel like dealing with issues with the IGP (poor support with open sources players/decoders and the "24p" issue). Not in a huge rush since I still have my 3D BR Player hooked up to my TV for now, but hoping that Llano comes through

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post #157 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

I am definitely anxious for Llano to come out. My current Clarkdale core i5 Mini-ITX HTPC needs to be upgraded to support BluRay 3D. I could go with SB but honestly I don't feel like dealing with issues with the IGP (poor support with open sources players/decoders and the "24p" issue). Not in a huge rush since I still have my 3D BR Player hooked up to my TV for now, but hoping that Llano comes through

It would be a lot cheaper to put a gt430, HD6450, or hd6570 in your core i5 system.
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post #158 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post


It would be a lot cheaper to put a gt430, HD6450, or hd6570 in your core i5 system.

Mini itx, too tight to just add a dGpu

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post #159 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Llano should be able to do the SLI thing with a discrete radeon card so it isn't exactly wasted transistors. Still with a discrete card the transistors probably would be better spent on more cpu cores. Intel is the way to go if you want discrete graphics, at least until we see what bulldozer does.

Thx.
I don't want discrete graphics, but discrete + IGP is how I've been driving three monitors for a few years.

Speaking of three monitors, is there any way of knowing if LLano is limited to driving two monitors maximum via it's DisplayPort output(s)?
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post #160 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Aluminum View Post

I am liking how much real estate the tiny hub frees up on board, compared to the 1155 itx boards it definitely looks like they have more room to work with.

The memory slot position on that asrock is new. Rectangular heatsink profile versus the square too. Usb 3.0 in the A75 saves another chip. Should be real interesting what all the different vendors do with layouts.

Can't wait to see boards from someone like asus or zotac, with a minicard slot of course.



Yeah, I thought that was a given. IGP was always a low-mid range thing, its wasted transistors paired with discrete cards. (hybrd multi-gpu was always bleh) Bulldozer with only an IGP (AM3+) will be a platform for people that just need monitor outputs

Theres no doubt even the lowest llano (160SP) smokes a 890GX/4290 (40SP) sideport or not. I can't be bothered to check but if you can eliminate the cpu differences I bet the brazos gpu (80SP) wins too.

Yep Northbridge chipsets are a thing of the past making packaging easier and allowing more features on board, say built-in WiFi or Bluetooth, along with USB 3.0 support and more SATA ports...

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post #161 of 880 Old 05-29-2011, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Thx.
I don't want discrete graphics, but discrete + IGP is how I've been driving three monitors for a few years.

Speaking of three monitors, is there any way of knowing if LLano is limited to driving two monitors maximum via it's DisplayPort output(s)?

I would say the better APU's might drive triple monitors for basic computing, not gaming. After all you've been able to do triple monitors with cheap HD5450 and onboard IGP for awhile now.

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post #162 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 09:05 AM
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Vr-Zone has photos taken at the Computex boot setup now ongoning.
MSI & ECS Llano MBs, both ATX and mATx.
ECS must really think legacy PCI has a market: one of their two mATX MB has TWO PCI slots.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/computex...-/12422-1.html
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post #163 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

Vr-Zone has photos taken at the Computex boot setup now ongoning.
MSI & ECS Llano MBs, both ATX and mATx.
ECS must really think legacy PCI has a market: one of their two mATX MB has TWO PCI slots.

http://vr-zone.com/articles/computex...-/12422-1.html

I hope motherboards keep PCI slots.. Just for the sake of onboard PCI tv cards actually have hardware encoding while the PCIX ones use CPU

of course network media recorders skup around this entire problem, but keep 1 pci slot please
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post #164 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 09:34 AM
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I hope motherboards keep PCI slots.. Just for the sake of onboard PCI tv cards actually have hardware encoding while the PCIX ones use CPU

of course network media recorders skup around this entire problem, but keep 1 pci slot please

Ya, but legacy support takes up space on the mobo and adds to the cost and complexity. I stopped buying anything pci as soon as pcie was released so I don't have anything that uses pci anymore.
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post #165 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by byronmhome View Post

I hope motherboards keep PCI slots.. Just for the sake of onboard PCI tv cards actually have hardware encoding while the PCIX ones use CPU

of course network media recorders skup around this entire problem, but keep 1 pci slot please

Thx for that comment. One of the ECS mATX MB has a single PCI slot (I'd prefer another PCIe, but fine), the other has TWO. As I said, ECS mktg must be responding to some legacy PCI demand

I wound up looking at a dual TV tuner I had forgotten was in my few year old den HTPC today: it's PCIe.

In any case, there should be a number of ATX, mATX and mini-ITX MBs shown at Computex.

BUT, where are the leaked desktop Llano clock speeds? 4 GHz for that Chinese leak sounds nice, but is it real/turbo/whatever?

PS: PCI-X is another legacy Parallel bus PCI_SIG technology, but the slots look like old legacy PCI, but can be 64-bits wide.
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post #166 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 10:08 AM
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Ya, but legacy support takes up space on the mobo and adds to the cost and complexity. I stopped buying anything pci as soon as pcie was released so I don't have anything that uses pci anymore.

Dunno how much it adds to a Llano MB. The PCI circuitry with a 3-slot bus arbiter is already on the Llano die. The extra cost might be the larger, higher pin count, (compared to PCIe x1 or PCIe x4) legacy PCI connector and the extra cost of, maybe, a 33 MHz oscillator.

IF you could eliminate legacy PCI you theoretically could also eliminate the legacy -12V in the power supply. AFAIK hat's only needed for legacy PCI.

But, PCI and the legacy infrastructure related to it will probably be around for a few more years based upon ECS deliberately including TWO legacy PCI slots in a new-for-2011 MB designed for a new-for-2011 CPU/APU.
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post #167 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 02:23 PM
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At this stage its really of very little import, but Foxconn also has a Llano/A75 mATX mATX with two PCI slots:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/foxconn-...red/12440.html
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post #168 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 04:23 PM
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Yeah, i meant PCIe.. i just say pcix out of old habit

A lot of the cheaper PCIe capture boards are pretty "Dumb" and consume a crazy amount of CPU to encode shows.. I hope as we move to APU these cards will at least adapt to use some of the "Advanced" part of the processor to do HW assisted encodes so PCI can fade away.

I'm really excited to see what pricepoint AMD hits with CPU+MB combinations.. we'll see if they price for war, or price competitively. Would love to get a new CPU+MB for less than the cost of the Intel Sandybridge CPU like they did with the phenoms but not sure they will price that insane again
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post #169 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byronmhome View Post
Yeah, i meant PCIe.. i just say pcix out of old habit

A lot of the cheaper PCIe capture boards are pretty "Dumb" and consume a crazy amount of CPU to encode shows.. I hope as we move to APU these cards will at least adapt to use some of the "Advanced" part of the processor to do HW assisted encodes so PCI can fade away.

I'm really excited to see what pricepoint AMD hits with CPU+MB combinations.. we'll see if they price for war, or price competitively. Would love to get a new CPU+MB for less than the cost of the Intel Sandybridge CPU like they did with the phenoms but not sure they will price that insane again
Most capture cards in serious use these days use the broadcasters' encoding don't they?

ATSC, QAM, DVB-S/S2, DVB-T/T2, DVB-C capture cards are surely the norm for broadcast TV capture these days - and none of these require the PC to do any encoding at all - they just pass the already-encoded MPEG2 transport stream (carrying MPEG2 or H264 encoded video and AC3, AAC or MP2 audio) to the PC.

Analogue SD capture solutions were available with both on-board MPEG2 encoding/compression in hardware (PVR-150 from Hauppauge was popular ISTR?), as well as with straight uncompressed video pass-through for the PC to compress in software (Brooktree based devices), though who captures analogue SD video these days?

The HD PVRs and Colossus solutions are analogue (and non-HDCP HDMI for Colossus) HD capture solutions that use onboard H264 encoding.

The Blackmagic Intensity stuff (and similar device) I guess is still capturing uncompressed, and uses CPU rather than on-board hardware for compression/encoding, but that's quite niche.
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post #170 of 880 Old 05-30-2011, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byronmhome View Post
Yeah, i meant PCIe.. i just say pcix out of old habit

A lot of the cheaper PCIe capture boards are pretty "Dumb" and consume a crazy amount of CPU to encode shows.. I hope as we move to APU these cards will at least adapt to use some of the "Advanced" part of the processor to do HW assisted encodes so PCI can fade away.

I'm really excited to see what pricepoint AMD hits with CPU+MB combinations.. we'll see if they price for war, or price competitively. Would love to get a new CPU+MB for less than the cost of the Intel Sandybridge CPU like they did with the phenoms but not sure they will price that insane again
Computex is officially opening now in Taipei, the booths have Llano/A75 MBs, so maybe some prices will be mentioned.
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post #171 of 880 Old 05-31-2011, 06:05 PM
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"I'm hearing late summer for the desktop Llano launch at this point." - Anand today.

This sounds like another delay, if by late summer Anand means September

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4389/c...o-motherboards
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post #172 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 12:20 AM
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Just a heat spreader. Trinity is a Bulldozer-based Fusion APU expected in 2012.

More on Llano

Computex 2011: AMD Bulldozer, Llano, Trinity, & New VISION Branding

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post #173 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkristof View Post

"I'm hearing late summer for the desktop Llano launch at this point." - Anand today.

This sounds like another delay, if by late summer Anand means September

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4389/c...o-motherboards

AMD just can't execute for some reason, sucks.
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post #174 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 09:19 AM
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Digitimes says in July. http://digitimes.com/news/a20110529PD202.html
Not sure who is right, but AMD certainly needs to be more clear about their plans.

Also some new benchmarks. Core i3-2100 almost equals quad-core Llano in PCMark Vantage.
http://en.ocworkbench.com/tech/compu...andy-bridge/3/
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post #175 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 09:50 AM
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Digitimes says in July. http://digitimes.com/news/a20110529PD202.html
Not sure who is right, but AMD certainly needs to be more clear about their plans.

Also some new benchmarks. Core i3-2100 almost equals quad-core Llano in PCMark Vantage.
http://en.ocworkbench.com/tech/compu...andy-bridge/3/

And the i3-2100 is apparently cheaper than what the A8-3550 is going to be. AMD certainly better have substantially better graphics performance, because essentially equal CPU performance and higher heat/power for more money isn't going to cut it.
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post #176 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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And the i3-2100 is apparently cheaper than what the A8-3550 is going to be. AMD certainly better have substantially better graphics performance, because essentially equal CPU performance and higher heat/power for more money isn't going to cut it.

It does, although I'd certainly want to see how the i3-2105 compares.

3DMark Vantage: http://en.ocworkbench.com/tech/compu...andy-bridge/2/

Whether it's worth the sacrifice in CPU performance remains to be seen, though. For HTPC duties, really, the only problem with Sandy Bridge is proper 23.976 support. Otherwise, the graphics is sufficient for 1080p playback. The only reason to consider Llano is if you need 24p and/or plan to do some light gaming. Oh well, we'll probably see price cuts for desktop Llano a few months after release. At $170 for the A8-3550P, it's a bit too expensive to be competing with the likes of the i5-2300/2400.
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post #177 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 10:06 AM
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And the i3-2100 is apparently cheaper than what the A8-3550 is going to be. AMD certainly better have substantially better graphics performance, because essentially equal CPU performance and higher heat/power for more money isn't going to cut it.

But the point is that the cpu performance is plenty for what it is aimed at. So with the superior gpu performance at similar pricing to the i3 2100 this is a win for amd imo.
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post #178 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 10:07 AM
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It does, although I'd certainly want to see how the i3-2105 compares.

3DMark Vantage: http://en.ocworkbench.com/tech/compu...andy-bridge/2/

Whether it's worth the sacrifice in CPU performance remains to be seen, though. For HTPC duties, really, the only problem with Sandy Bridge is proper 23.976 support. Otherwise, the graphics is sufficient for 1080p playback. The only reason to consider Llano is if you need 24p and/or plan to do some light gaming. Oh well, we'll probably see price cuts for desktop Llano a few months after release. At $170 for the A8-3550P, it's a bit too expensive to be competing with the likes of the i5-2300/2400.

Actually, aside from 23.976, the main reason I am looking at Llano vs Sandy Bridge is Intel doesn't play nice with the open source players/decoders, whereas AMD does

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post #179 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dbone1026 View Post

Actually, aside from 23.976, the main reason I am looking at Llano vs Sandy Bridge is Intel doesn't play nice with the open source players/decoders, whereas AMD does

That's true. With SNB though, even if it doesn't play nice with freeware/open-source DXVA decoders, the CPU is more than up to the task if you use the software/brute force method.

No question, though, this is likely a major win for AMD in the mobile segment.
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post #180 of 880 Old 06-01-2011, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

That's true. With SNB though, even if it doesn't play nice with freeware/open-source DXVA decoders, the CPU is more than up to the task if you use the software/brute force method.

No question, though, this is likely a major win for AMD in the mobile segment.

I use MS Video Decoder for h264 and Arcsoft Video Decoder for VC-1 with my Clarkdale to get around this. However, system updates at times have killed this for whatever reason, which is another reason I rather go with AMD and be done with. Since my build is a Mini-ITX I would rather avoid pushing the CPU for video playback via brute force due to heat, etc...

Good thing I am not in a rush, but hopefully a few more months to wait for Llano

Cheers,
Damian

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