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post #4801 of 4820 Old 09-07-2014, 02:21 PM
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Why did you never mention the amp before? That's a very important detail. If you need an amp, you've got other problems upstream that need to be fixed.

Also, your TA is connected wrong (or have I mentioned that before).
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post #4802 of 4820 Old 09-09-2014, 06:57 PM
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Mea culpa.

As it turns out, I made a last-chance move and went by the Cox service center to pick up an 'approved' splitter and installed it as you described, one output to the TA and the other to the Ceton. No change.

So, I sent a less-than-friendly email to Ceton Support per their most recent set of irrelevant directions (I did not have some of the apps they asked me to disable, and my power settings were already at their recommendations) and turned everything off.

Next time I powered up the HTPC -- the clouds parted. HD channels are solid, with only the rare stutter. I still get some buffer/pixel when recording one HD channel while watching another, but that may sort itself out too.

Thanks for pushing the splitter-based solution, that's the only thing I can point to as having worked since I made no other changes to the config. Now it's on to the remote settings and sleep mode when powering down the TV+AVR.

+1
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post #4803 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 12:08 AM
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A couple of days ago we went into Comcast's "Music Choice" channels for the first time in a while, and we noticed that the sound was dropping out for a second or two at least 2-3 times per minute. This happened on every music channel we tried; it was so annoying that we had to switch to a regular (video) channel.

Using Windows 7 Media Center and the InfiniTV 4, PCIe version. Is it possible that there is some processing issue that's affecting transmission of the sound from the Ceton to the TV? I checked two other TV sets that are connected to a Comcast DVR or set-top box, and they both sound fine, so I'm suspecting it's an issue related to the Ceton tuner.

TV and cable channels (i.e., ESPN, HBO, ABC) aren't affected by this issue.

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.

Last edited by JorgeA; 09-13-2014 at 12:09 AM. Reason: clarification
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post #4804 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JorgeA View Post
A couple of days ago we went into Comcast's "Music Choice" channels for the first time in a while, and we noticed that the sound was dropping out for a second or two at least 2-3 times per minute. This happened on every music channel we tried; it was so annoying that we had to switch to a regular (video) channel.

Using Windows 7 Media Center and the InfiniTV 4, PCIe version. Is it possible that there is some processing issue that's affecting transmission of the sound from the Ceton to the TV? I checked two other TV sets that are connected to a Comcast DVR or set-top box, and they both sound fine, so I'm suspecting it's an issue related to the Ceton tuner.

TV and cable channels (i.e., ESPN, HBO, ABC) aren't affected by this issue.

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.
Did you check the signal level and SNR for the music channels? Your signal level won't be the same across all channels.
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post #4805 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JorgeA View Post
A couple of days ago we went into Comcast's "Music Choice" channels for the first time in a while, and we noticed that the sound was dropping out for a second or two at least 2-3 times per minute. This happened on every music channel we tried; it was so annoying that we had to switch to a regular (video) channel.

Using Windows 7 Media Center and the InfiniTV 4, PCIe version. Is it possible that there is some processing issue that's affecting transmission of the sound from the Ceton to the TV? I checked two other TV sets that are connected to a Comcast DVR or set-top box, and they both sound fine, so I'm suspecting it's an issue related to the Ceton tuner.

TV and cable channels (i.e., ESPN, HBO, ABC) aren't affected by this issue.

Thanks for any ideas or suggestions.
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
Did you check the signal level and SNR for the music channels? Your signal level won't be the same across all channels.
Good news and bad news. The bad news is, I've been back and forth with Ceton over this issue for years. They finally came back and said it was a bug in WMC. They tested a Homerun Prime and had the same dropouts, so concluded it wasn't their fault. They said there was some bug in the way WMC demuxed QAM music channels (unlike regular channels, there are lots of music feeds in a single QAM channel). Being a WMC bug, this will never be fixed.

The good news is I've found a simple workaround. Tune in a music channel, press pause, count to 10, press play - voila, no more dropouts, steady as a rock. For some reason everything works out when playing back from the buffer.
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post #4806 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 11:00 AM
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Hmmm... That's interesting. I'm curious what the bug is. We use the InfinityTV PCIe with music channels all the time -- my wife and daughter use that as much as they use TV. I don't think I have ever noticed a dropout whenever I have listened to their music. Is this WMV bug specific to some cable provider? We have Cable One here.
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post #4807 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mccordm View Post
Hmmm... That's interesting. I'm curious what the bug is. We use the InfinityTV PCIe with music channels all the time -- my wife and daughter use that as much as they use TV. I don't think I have ever noticed a dropout whenever I have listened to their music. Is this WMV bug specific to some cable provider? We have Cable One here.
Don't know. Happens to me on Charter, on and off and with different music channels, with every tuner I've ever owned (5 different Cetons (PCIe and ETH), Silicon Dust and Hauppauge). Never had the issue on Charter boxes. I've gotten in the habit of using the pause trick.
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post #4808 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 01:22 PM
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My FiOS music channels work just fine in WMC through my InfiniTV4 PCIe and HDHR Prime.
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post #4809 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 01:45 PM
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I'm on Comcast in VA, so I thought I'd test a few of the music channels. I'm not hearing any dropouts.

My set up: cable from wall to splitter; splitter to +15dB signal booster, then straight into the PCI-e InfiniTV 4's dongle/mini-coax cable (other split to cable modem). I'm using the HTPC's onboard coax digital out (typical Realtek) to a digital audio switch (4 In, 1 Out), and finally Optical Out from the switch to an old Kenwood VR-6060 AVR. That's a lot of stuff in the chain, but no problems.

Could it be your AVR, if you have one? As a test, if possible, you could hook up a pair of self-powered PC speakers and make that device the HTPC's default audio device. Or use the TV's speakers.

Maybe it's Comcast. In VA, Comcast bought Adelphia, which was a Scientific-Atlanta DVR area. I know Comcast butchered the software/firmware in the Sci-Atl DVRs to match their majority Motorola areas. That's merely to provide a possible point of reference. Maybe it doesn't matter in the end.
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post #4810 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
My FiOS music channels work just fine in WMC through my InfiniTV4 PCIe and HDHR Prime.
My Charter music channels used to work fine too on those devices. They've changed something about the way the pack them, and WMC simply won't unpack them correctly anymore.

I don't think it's AVR related as I've tried every possible connection with the same results. Also happens on all extenders. That rules out hardware too.
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post #4811 of 4820 Old 09-13-2014, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
Good news and bad news. The bad news is, I've been back and forth with Ceton over this issue for years. They finally came back and said it was a bug in WMC. They tested a Homerun Prime and had the same dropouts, so concluded it wasn't their fault. They said there was some bug in the way WMC demuxed QAM music channels (unlike regular channels, there are lots of music feeds in a single QAM channel). Being a WMC bug, this will never be fixed.

The good news is I've found a simple workaround. Tune in a music channel, press pause, count to 10, press play - voila, no more dropouts, steady as a rock. For some reason everything works out when playing back from the buffer.
I tried the tune-pause-wait-play trick, and it worked!

If it happens again, I'll escalate to checking the SNR.

Thanks for the tip.
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post #4812 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 01:36 AM
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I just re-installed Windows on my newly purchased hard drive and ran into a little hitch.

I have years worth of shows saved on my big drives, about 10tb worth. Much of this is from premium channels, HBO, Showtime, etc.

Since the re-install, I get an error in WMC saying Copying Prohibited, can only be played on the computer it was recorded on. Is there any way around this so I can watch my old content on my new install?

I was looking into this, but I'm not certain it's going to do what I need.

http://www.missingremote.com/guide/o...media-center-7
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post #4813 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by apheod View Post
I just re-installed Windows on my newly purchased hard drive and ran into a little hitch.

I have years worth of shows saved on my big drives, about 10tb worth. Much of this is from premium channels, HBO, Showtime, etc.

Since the re-install, I get an error in WMC saying Copying Prohibited, can only be played on the computer it was recorded on. Is there any way around this so I can watch my old content on my new install?

I was looking into this, but I'm not certain it's going to do what I need.

http://www.missingremote.com/guide/o...media-center-7
You won't be able to view your old copy protected material on a new windows install. There is no way around this afaik.

If you still have your old hard drive with original install you should be able to go back to that, and if you're so inclined you can clone the old drive onto the new drive, but a new install of windows won't play nice with your old DRM'ed content.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #4814 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 10:20 AM
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You won't be able to view your old copy protected material on a new windows install. There is no way around this afaik.
Correct. Copy protected content can only be played by the same Win7 install and on the same "nucleus hardware" which did the original recording in the first place.

NOTE: swapping a hard drive and many other peripherals is NOT considered altering the hardware, so you can upgrade lots of equipment and not lose access to those DRM-protected program recordings. I don't believe you can replace motherboard (unless it's identical to the previous one?) or CPU (unsure here), but these ARE considered "nucleus" to define the recording machine system. So changing those might well break the boundary so that you'd lose playability to your old copy-protected content.


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If you still have your old hard drive with original install you should be able to go back to that, and if you're so inclined you can clone the old drive onto the new drive
Given the situation, this is really the only "solution" that will work. No choice other than this, aside from losing all these copy-protected programs forever.

Note that even doing a "system image" restore (say of last weekend's weekly "system image" backup you might have done using Macrium Reflect or similar) from some date in the past will LOSE ACCESS TO ALL COPY-PROTECTED RECORDINGS DONE SINCE THE DATE OF THAT RESTORED "SYSTEM IMAGE". And that's because the DRM encryption used by WMC is also time-based. It can only successfully decrypt encrypted recordings which were made at the current moment or earlier. Nothing NEWER than the current moment is decryptable. And of course "current moment" is always moving forward in time, but is never newer than right now. Hence the loss of ability to decrypt anything NEWER than the date of that "system image" backup you took last weekend and just restored. You've now lost all copy-protected programs made this week, i.e. since last week's "system image" you just recovered from your disaster with.

That's why I take TWO "system images" each week, so that I won't lose more than possibly a few days of copy-protected content if I have to restore a "system image" to recover from an otherwise unrecoverable disaster. In general, cable copy-protected content is shown multiple times throughout a week, so having only a few days to scramble to re-record later airings of if I have to go back to a 3-day old "system image" is almost certainly an issue I can deal with successfully so that in the end nothing is truly lost.

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but a new install of windows won't play nice with your old DRM'ed content.
Correct. Saving 10TB of copy-protected content for posterity viewing will require that you keep that WMC system operational forever, including the original installed Win7 and the same MB and CPU. You can add memory, swap hard drives, change/add monitors, change printers, mice and keyboards, add USB devices, etc., but you can't change MB and CPU or reinstall Win7.
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post #4815 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 10:31 AM
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FWIW, if you change your network adapter, you will have to re-confirm the system setup, but it shouldn't affect access to DRM WTV files. I experienced this when accidentally switching between the two onboard NICs. There's an article out there about why network adapters are considered significant changes. Fortunately, they're not at the same level as system boards and CPUs.
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post #4816 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ThurstonX View Post
FWIW, if you change your network adapter, you will have to re-confirm the system setup, but it shouldn't affect access to DRM WTV files. I experienced this when accidentally switching between the two onboard NICs. There's an article out there about why network adapters are considered significant changes. Fortunately, they're not at the same level as system boards and CPUs.
I suspect because it is one of the easiest things to track in terms of hardware changes since all NICs have a unique MAC address that is accessible through standard means. Some other hardware might have a serial number floating around in the firmware somewhere but it isn't anything that you'd necessarily have access to by any sort of standard means. And since most motherboards now come with a NIC included it is a pretty easy way to track hardware changes (even if replaced with otherwise identical hardware)

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #4817 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
I suspect because it is one of the easiest things to track in terms of hardware changes since all NICs have a unique MAC address that is accessible through standard means. Some other hardware might have a serial number floating around in the firmware somewhere but it isn't anything that you'd necessarily have access to by any sort of standard means. And since most motherboards now come with a NIC included it is a pretty easy way to track hardware changes (even if replaced with otherwise identical hardware)
Makes perfect sense, esp. since most (I'll guess) motherboards only have one NIC Thus they might assume the board has changed. Begs the question about add-on NICs. In fact, I didn't have that problem when I swapped WiFi adapters in my PC that runs live TV off of network tuners.
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post #4818 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Correct. Copy protected content can only be played by the same Win7 install and on the same "nucleus hardware" which did the original recording in the first place.

NOTE: swapping a hard drive and many other peripherals is NOT considered altering the hardware, so you can upgrade lots of equipment and not lose access to those DRM-protected program recordings. I don't believe you can replace motherboard (unless it's identical to the previous one?) or CPU (unsure here), but these ARE considered "nucleus" to define the recording machine system. So changing those might well break the boundary so that you'd lose playability to your old copy-protected content.


Given the situation, this is really the only "solution" that will work. No choice other than this, aside from losing all these copy-protected programs forever.

Note that even doing a "system image" restore (say of last weekend's weekly "system image" backup you might have done using Macrium Reflect or similar) from some date in the past will LOSE ACCESS TO ALL COPY-PROTECTED RECORDINGS DONE SINCE THE DATE OF THAT RESTORED "SYSTEM IMAGE". And that's because the DRM encryption used by WMC is also time-based. It can only successfully decrypt encrypted recordings which were made at the current moment or earlier. Nothing NEWER than the current moment is decryptable. And of course "current moment" is always moving forward in time, but is never newer than right now. Hence the loss of ability to decrypt anything NEWER than the date of that "system image" backup you took last weekend and just restored. You've now lost all copy-protected programs made this week, i.e. since last week's "system image" you just recovered from your disaster with.

That's why I take TWO "system images" each week, so that I won't lose more than possibly a few days of copy-protected content if I have to restore a "system image" to recover from an otherwise unrecoverable disaster. In general, cable copy-protected content is shown multiple times throughout a week, so having only a few days to scramble to re-record later airings of if I have to go back to a 3-day old "system image" is almost certainly an issue I can deal with successfully so that in the end nothing is truly lost.

Correct. Saving 10TB of copy-protected content for posterity viewing will require that you keep that WMC system operational forever, including the original installed Win7 and the same MB and CPU. You can add memory, swap hard drives, change/add monitors, change printers, mice and keyboards, add USB devices, etc., but you can't change MB and CPU or reinstall Win7.
I recently just had to replace my motherboard with a different model by the same manufacturer (all usb ports: 2.0 & 3.0 were toast). When I set everything back up, I didn't lose anything! Could still watch pre-recorded TV shows, still had recorded series intact, and didn't have to rerun Cable Advisor or rerun TV setup - All with using Win7 Home Premium OEM (didn't even have to re-register) - I got WICKED lucky!!


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post #4819 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Toys7505 View Post
I recently just had to replace my motherboard with a different model by the same manufacturer (all usb ports: 2.0 & 3.0 were toast). When I set everything back up, I didn't lose anything! Could still watch pre-recorded TV shows, still had recorded series intact, and didn't have to rerun Cable Advisor or rerun TV setup - All with using Win7 Home Premium OEM (didn't even have to re-register) - I got WICKED lucky!!
If any of those pre-recorded TV shows were from premium channels such as HBO, then you got so lucky that you should buy a lottery ticket.
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post #4820 of 4820 Old 11-26-2014, 07:17 PM
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If any of those pre-recorded TV shows were from premium channels such as HBO, then you got so lucky that you should buy a lottery ticket.
Boardwalk Empire....still able to watch without a hiccup!!


Lottery tkt - here I come!


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