Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread - Page 166 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Home Theater Computers > Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread
SubaruB4's Avatar SubaruB4 06:20 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
You've asked several questions here, but you haven't really provided enough information to provide proper answers.

Are you going with an internal Ceton InfiniTV card (4 or 6) to be installed in your HTPC, or a USB version of the card (connected to the HTPC via USB cable), or an external network ethernet version of the card? These are Ceton products. Or have you decided to go with a network-based SD Homerun Prime?

Anyway, with Windows Media Center a tuner is only needed if you watch live TV (either on the HTPC itself, or through an extender/HDTV in another room). A tuner is also needed to do a recording. But tp just watch a previously made recording no tuner is required. So you only need as many tuners as you anticipate will be in simultaneous use for scheduled recordings and watching live programs.

As far as that router is concerned, I think that model will be inadequate for a WMC environment involving network-based tuners. It is an inexpensive 10/100 Router supporting no faster than 100Mbps over wired connections. In other words it is not a Gigabit Router which would support wired connected devices at speeds up to 1Gbps. I assume your PC has a gigabit network adapter.

Remember that all the external tuners need to talk to WMC, and that's done wired via the router. If the router can only support 100Mbps, and each live HDTV stream being recorded or watched is typically 5-15Mbps by itself, and all of those streams from a single external network-based tuner like the Homerun is coming in on one single wired cable to the router, just do the math and it's likely you'll exceed the 100Mbps limit. Furthermore, play of live/recorded HDTV content on a single extender/HDTV will again typically be its own 5-15Mbps over separate wired/wireless . This is on top of whatever else is going on as far as recording data streams going through the router in a single path. While it is theoretically possible to deliver HDTV via wireless to an extender/HDTV node, if you really want reliable best-possible results you should use a wired connection.

Furthermore, if your ethernet cables are CAT5 then they are also limited to 100Mbps. So even if you had a Gigabit Router you couldn't deliver faster than 100Mbps over a wired connection from that router, because the ethernet cable is not designed for that speed. You must use either Cat5e or Cat6 cables to provide wired connections faster than 100Mbps.

As far a using multiple PC's in a WMC environment, I don't know exactly what you're thinking you can do or how you plan to use these additional PC's and what you also refer to as your HTPC. With copy-protected content (depends on your cable provider) you can only play that content on the WMC machine that did the recording originally. You cannot "share" copy-protected content on multiple PC's. Only copy-freely content can be played freely on any PC without consideration.

So, please provide some more details on what your plans are, and exactly what your equipment and cabling is. Can't provide proper answers without detailed information about your setup.
I'm going to get the SD prime not going to bother with the Ceton anymore I can't say I would be recording on other computers only just watching the main recording would be done in the living room on the HTPC. But anyways the computers in the other room are just "extras" not really the main area were I would be watching tv most of the time.

mdavej's Avatar mdavej 07:13 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruB4 View Post
I'm going to get the SD prime not going to bother with the Ceton anymore I can't say I would be recording on other computers only just watching the main recording would be done in the living room on the HTPC. But anyways the computers in the other room are just "extras" not really the main area were I would be watching tv most of the time.
Going with the Prime makes it more important than ever to get a better router. My old 10/100 router could not keep up when I had a Prime.
SubaruB4's Avatar SubaruB4 07:38 PM 10-25-2015
I just picked up this router today.. I really don't want to have to drive 30 miles one way to get something else.. I don't see too many with 1000mbs ports without spending over $130
bmcn's Avatar bmcn 07:44 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruB4 View Post
I just picked up this router today.. I really don't want to have to drive 30 miles one way to get something else.. I don't see too many with 1000mbs ports without spending over $130
Dave's correct.
SubaruB4's Avatar SubaruB4 07:47 PM 10-25-2015
I think I'm going to try it out first
bmcn's Avatar bmcn 07:49 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruB4 View Post
I think I'm going to try it out first
Greenwich, middle of the sticks, lol.
SubaruB4's Avatar SubaruB4 07:51 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Greenwich, middle of the sticks, lol.
lol sometimes it feels that way but I'm more near the NY border
mdavej's Avatar mdavej 08:37 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruB4 View Post
I just picked up this router today.. I really don't want to have to drive 30 miles one way to get something else.. I don't see too many with 1000mbs ports without spending over $130
FWIW, I think I paid around $40 for my gigabit router on Amazon or eBay. You'll pay through the nose walking into a Best Buy or something like that.

No harm in trying first. It will work ok for a few streams, but much more than that, things will start to go south.
DrDon's Avatar DrDon 08:44 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
With the Ceton tuners, I had ongoing issues with tuners not being available and recordings getting lost.
More of an aside as anything, but I had the same issues after tinkering with configurations until finally getting it right. Solved my issues with ...a fan. Even though the temp was close to but not beyond specifications, adding a card-mounted fan aimed directly at the Ceton brought the temperature down another ten degrees and my issues disappeared. Card worked great until BHN implemented the CCI bit across all channels on the system. Since I record on one PC and watch on another, that killed it for me.
Ken.F's Avatar Ken.F 09:30 PM 10-25-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post
No harm in trying first. It will work ok for a few streams, but much more than that, things will start to go south.
If the router isn't fast enough just put everything on a cheap gigabit switch. It doesn't matter how slow the router is if you use a switch. The only data that ever passes through my 10/100 router is internet. My internet service is 50 Mbps so if I upgraded to a gigabit router it wouldn't increase my network speed at all.
SubaruB4's Avatar SubaruB4 04:30 AM 10-26-2015
I may just return it I was looking on Amazon and I see some for $49 less then what I got mine for
gsr's Avatar gsr 04:47 AM 10-26-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
More of an aside as anything, but I had the same issues after tinkering with configurations until finally getting it right. Solved my issues with ...a fan. Even though the temp was close to but not beyond specifications, adding a card-mounted fan aimed directly at the Ceton brought the temperature down another ten degrees and my issues disappeared. Card worked great until BHN implemented the CCI bit across all channels on the system. Since I record on one PC and watch on another, that killed it for me.
I also added fans into the mix, which brought the temps WAY down and improved matters somewhat but never fully solved the problem. But the Ceton tuners are long gone at this point and I see no reason to consider switching back given how reliable the Primes have been.
Ken.F's Avatar Ken.F 07:17 AM 10-26-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I also added fans into the mix, which brought the temps WAY down and improved matters somewhat but never fully solved the problem.
I had mine in a desktop PC and it would run pretty close to the 65°C limit. I moved it to my server (4U case with 8 cooling fans) and the temps are now typically in the 40s. My signal levels are in the -2 to -5 dBmV range with SNR 37 and it's still flaky.

I love this status webpage that mdavej posted.
Attached: Ceton status.jpg (489.8 KB) 
gsr's Avatar gsr 08:05 AM 10-26-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
I had mine in a desktop PC and it would run pretty close to the 65°C limit. I moved it to my server (4U case with 8 cooling fans) and the temps are now typically in the 40s. My signal levels are in the -2 to -5 dBmV range with SNR 37 and it's still flaky.

I love this status webpage that mdavej posted.
Yup. The temps for my ETH tuners were also in the mid 60's before adding the fans and below 40 after adding the fans. My signal levels and SNR numbers were all good and it continued to be flaky. A simple swap to the Primes and all has been good ever since.
geekythings 05:03 PM 12-02-2015
Ever since Windows Media Center switched guide providers, the star rating as well as the date for movies have disappeared. Anyone know how I can get them back?
geekythings 05:07 PM 12-02-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekythings View Post
Ever since Windows Media Center switched guide providers, the star rating as well as the date for movies have disappeared. Anyone know how I can get them back?
Alternatively, I don't mind stepping away from WMC and using some other PVR solution with my cablecards or a new Ceton infiniTV6 ETH. But what software out there has the best support for CableCards. Or rather, the most active development?
rc05's Avatar rc05 05:10 PM 12-02-2015
If you have copy-once channels, currently only WMC works with them and the ETH.

Rovi just doesn't have star ratings and Microsoft has said they aren't coming back. I think there is an effort at The Green Button to get Zap2it data back, but it's quite a workaround.
gsr's Avatar gsr 05:13 PM 12-02-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekythings View Post
Alternatively, I don't mind stepping away from WMC and using some other PVR solution with my cablecards or a new Ceton infiniTV6 ETH. But what software out there has the best support for CableCards. Or rather, the most active development?
Do you need support for Copy Once content? If not, take a look at JRiver Media Center. They've got a Kickstarter in the funding stage for adding Copy Once support, but it doesn't look very promising for them to reach their goal of $100,000 (only $4355 pledged so far with 16 days to go). Otherwise, they're a pretty solid solution for TV and are excellent for managing other media (audio, video, images).

The only other option out there that's (in theory) going to have support for Copy Once content is SiliconDust's DVR project, but that will only work with their tuners, so it won't be an option for Ceton owners.
geekythings 05:16 PM 12-02-2015
Nice. I'll go and check that out.

Do you know if anyone is working to add copy-once or copy-never support to a PVR solution? I've heard it is expensive to get certification, but certainly it makes sense for companies like Ceton and Silicon Dust to want to support other software besides WMC. Maybe they'd help in the development effort or financing effort.
rc05's Avatar rc05 05:20 PM 12-02-2015
SiliconDust had a Kickstarter campaign that was funded successfully to develop an alternative to WMC that works with their HDHR tuners. However, they're a little behind schedule right now and copy-once support hasn't shown up yet (I think). JRiver currently has an ongoing Kickstarter campaign, but as gsr said, it's not looking good for reaching their goal, but it should support Ceton tuners (already does, just not copy-once).
gsr's Avatar gsr 05:30 PM 12-02-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekythings View Post
Do you know if anyone is working to add copy-once or copy-never support to a PVR solution? I've heard it is expensive to get certification, but certainly it makes since for companies like Ceton and Silicon Dust to want to support other software besides WMC. Maybe they'd help in the development effort or financing effort.
Like I said, JRiver Media Center is seeking funding to add Copy Once support to their software. Other than not having Copy Once support yet, their TV solution is already a very good replacement option for WMC, complete with series recording functionality. The only support SiliconDust has offered so far is to start a new subforum for JRiver on their discussion board. Given that they ran a Kickstarter campaign to fund a PVR solution from the ground up, I doubt SiliconDust has any funds to send in JRiver's direction. I don't believe any of these companies are big enough to have lots of spare money to fund projects such as these, hence the Kickstarter campaigns.
geekythings 05:31 PM 12-02-2015
So is copy-never content out of the question?

And is anyone working on on-demand content? That is one of the things that frustrates me about WMC. Microsoft never added two-way cablecard communication.
geekythings 05:33 PM 12-02-2015
Sorry gsr. I'm writing these posts and before I can even submit them you respond with answers!
gsr's Avatar gsr 05:40 PM 12-02-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekythings View Post
So is copy-never content out of the question?
I'm not sure where support for that falls. It would obviously only be allowed for live viewing. Is it even used anywhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekythings View Post
And is anyone working on on-demand content? That is one of the things that frustrates me about WMC. Microsoft never added two-way cablecard communication.
I don't believe that's possible.
rc05's Avatar rc05 05:42 PM 12-02-2015
WMC supports copy-never, it will throw an error message if you try to record a copy-never program. The only times I've seen copy-never is misconfiguration by the cable company, or PPV events which can be ordered by phone, and then you just tune to the specified PPV channel in the guide.
geekythings 05:48 PM 12-02-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I'm not sure where support for that falls. It would obviously only be allowed for live viewing. Is it even used anywhere?
I'm pretty sure it is only used in pay-per-view content. I think it would be most useful for fights and such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post
I don't believe that's possible.
Are you sure? It is possible with TiVo.

https://www.tivo.com/support/how-to/...-premiere-dvrs
rc05's Avatar rc05 05:53 PM 12-02-2015
Tivo is doing something special specifically with Comcast to get their On Demand to work. The Tivo requests the On Demand content over IP instead of through the CableCard http://zatznotfunny.com/2012-04/tivo...san-francisco/
geekythings 06:03 PM 12-02-2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by rc05 View Post
Tivo is doing something special specifically with Comcast to get their On Demand to work. The Tivo requests the On Demand content over IP instead of through the CableCard http://zatznotfunny.com/2012-04/tivo...san-francisco/
Ahh ok. But it does say that requests are over IP and the content is via QAM. I guess if the IP API is proprietary then it'll be highly unlikely we'll see it in other software. But one could hope.
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