Latest Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 4790 Old 01-26-2012, 12:42 PM
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Ah, ok, makes sense.

Yeah, the diag tool has both listed in drop downs. Guess I didn't think about launching the web part from that.

Will be interesting to see what address it is. I think I tried 201.1 and 200.(1-5) to try to get to it.
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post #1622 of 4790 Old 01-26-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

Bad choice, IMO. You are at least as likely to have problems with that as you are to have spontaneous reboots with a TiVo.

Maybe. Doesn't seem like a lot of people are having problems though with the 4 tuner pcie version. Might be as likely, but at least the interface is complete.

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Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

I wonder how much Microsoft has to pay for the Zap2It guides to be maintained, and if there is any chance that Microsoft may decide to stop paying for Zap2It in the future.

I highly doubt there is a chance of that. I just don't see Ceton investing in an embedded solution without assurances by MS that it will be supported for years to come.
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post #1623 of 4790 Old 01-26-2012, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gcw07 View Post

I highly doubt there is a chance of that. I just don't see Ceton investing in an embedded solution without assurances by MS that it will be supported for years to come.

You're safe until (at least) 2020 - see here for Windows 7, and here for Windows Embedded 7

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post #1624 of 4790 Old 01-26-2012, 06:19 PM
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IP address for second card is 192.168.201.2
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post #1625 of 4790 Old 01-26-2012, 09:35 PM
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Well it didn't take long to come up with the first problem with the PCIe version ... "Service Unavailable" while watching live TV. Pressing "Stop" and then re-tuning the channel gets it working again immediately. Anyone else get this from time to time ? I also observed this with the USB version.
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post #1626 of 4790 Old 01-26-2012, 09:38 PM
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I get this every so often - maybe once or twice every couple of weeks. Do you have SDV? A majority of the time, it's something with the TA though.

Tough to tell if it's a Ceton problem or not - hadn't had time to get them more indepth WMC logs, however. In general though, very, very happy with the purchase and have been using the setup for about 10months now.
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post #1627 of 4790 Old 01-26-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daidavel View Post

Well it didn't take long to come up with the first problem with the PCIe version ... "Service Unavailable" while watching live TV. Pressing "Stop" and then re-tuning the channel gets it working again immediately. Anyone else get this from time to time ? I also observed this with the USB version.

Without seeing logs, there's no way to say what the cause is here. Frequent causes are weak signals or SDV issues. Open a support ticket if the problem persists.

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post #1628 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 02:45 AM
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Had my 1st missed recording yesterday. Said tuner 2 was unavailable I believe. Had it running since end of December.

Glad it is only one for that length of time, but fight through "no signal" and "no subscription", etc. too much on my client PC and occasional similar on host. I may add a HDhomerun Prime for client PCs to eliminate need to have host. Only problem is I need 4 tuner or I always need to rely on 1 of them from the Ceton.

Oh yeah, PCI version I have.
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post #1629 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 08:16 AM
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I have a few dumb questions. Why does the Ceton tuner get set up with an ip address of 192.1.200.1 by default? Many people use a class C subnet mask and a network in the 192.168.1.0 range.
Why wouldn't you want it in the same subnet?

When I set mine up using static ip's I put the tuner and the pc its attached to within the 192.168.1.0 range and it seems to work better than the default settings did. I also have another pc that shares one of the tuners set with a static ip in the same subnet.

What I mean by better is I don't seem to get as many lost tuners, reboots service unavailable problems as I did using the defaults.

As for the reboots, since updating to the beta firmware and using static ip's, the reboots seem to happen about one or two times a week. I am using the usb version.

Pretty much the only time I get the lost tuner problem is if the main pc goes to sleep. I have it set to never sleep but for some reason it sometime still does but not often.
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post #1630 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcSparks View Post

My issue is that damn "View or Listening Conflict / No tuners available" message. This has happened a couple times on all 3 of the PCs, including the main HTPC which is on 24/7 and doesn't get put to sleep. The kicker that makes this issue such a big deal is no matter what I do, the only way to get TV back is to re-run the Network Tuner Sharing wizard, and then re-do the TV signal setup in WMC. About a 10 minute process, and not something I can explain to the wife very easily.

I have this same setup with a USB Ceton and am having this same exact problem. Did he or anyone ever find the cause or solution to this? It just seems to randomly occur at odd times with no rhyme or reason. Sometimes restarting the PC clears it, other times I have to re-run the network tuners wizard, or re-bridge the network connections? I haven't been able to pinpoint the actual cause OR fix
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post #1631 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Without seeing logs, there's no way to say what the cause is here. Frequent causes are weak signals or SDV issues. Open a support ticket if the problem persists.

Or bugs in the InfiniTV drivers, firmware, or WMC. Opening a support ticket does not seem to accomplish anything.

Those intermittent problems are common on my system, which does not have a TA and they are NOT weak signals. I know since I have my old TiVo HD XL hooked up to the same splitter, and it NEVER misses a recording.

It is a good thing I kept my TiVo when I got my InfiniTV. I had put the TiVo in the closet when I first got the InfiniTV, but when I started having frequent no recordings and partial recordings with the InfiniTV about 8 months ago, I pulled the TiVo out and started using it for a backup. The TiVo has not missed a recording (except when there were more than 2 shows to record at the same time, of course), while the InfiniTV has had numerous missed recordings and partial recordings.
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post #1632 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasspar32 View Post

I have this same setup with a USB Ceton and am having this same exact problem. Did he or anyone ever find the cause or solution to this? It just seems to randomly occur at odd times with no rhyme or reason. Sometimes restarting the PC clears it, other times I have to re-run the network tuners wizard, or re-bridge the network connections? I haven't been able to pinpoint the actual cause OR fix

I suspect a bug was introduced into InfiniTV drivers or firmware about 6-10 months ago, or possibly a Windows update from about that time caused issues.

When I first got my PCIe InfiniTV, I had no problems for months. But at some point around 8 months ago, I started getting intermittent but frequent problems.

I'm planning to do a fresh Windows install (without doing any updates) and run that for a month or so. If there are no problems, then it would seem to be a Windows update that causes issues. If there are problems, I guess the next step would be to try to get an older firmware and older InfiniTV drivers to try.
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post #1633 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makomako View Post

I have a few dumb questions. Why does the Ceton tuner get set up with an ip address of 192.1.200.1 by default? Many people use a class C subnet mask and a network in the 192.168.1.0 range.
Why wouldn't you want it in the same subnet?

One thing I have always wondered is why it needs an IP at all. Even before it was possible to do network extenders, way back when the InfiniTV first came out, it still needed an IP address and network device when you installed the drivers.

Maybe it is a requirement to work with WMC?
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post #1634 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makomako View Post

I have a few dumb questions. Why does the Ceton tuner get set up with an ip address of 192.1.200.1 by default? Many people use a class C subnet mask and a network in the 192.168.1.0 range.
Why wouldn't you want it in the same subnet?

You don't want it in the same subnet (unless you're doing Network Tuners) as two different NICs with IPs on the same subnet will cause problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

One thing I have always wondered is why it needs an IP at all. Even before it was possible to do network extenders, way back when the InfiniTV first came out, it still needed an IP address and network device when you installed the drivers.

Maybe it is a requirement to work with WMC?

All communication (and video transmission) happens over IP - that's written into the OCUR spec.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #1635 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

You don't want it in the same subnet (unless you're doing Network Tuners) as two different NICs with IPs on the same subnet will cause problems.

I don't understand what you are saying, two nics with different ip's on the same subnet will cause problems? How so?

I have three tuners set up on the pc that has the usb tuner attached and I have one tuner set up on another pc. I have both pc's and the usb tuner on the same subnet all with different static ip's.

Is this going to cause a problem? If so, how should it be configured?

This configuration seems to be working fairly well for me.

Please explain this in more detail.

Thanks.
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post #1636 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makomako View Post

I don't understand what you are saying, two nics with different ip's on the same subnet will cause problems? How so?

I have three tuners set up on the pc that has the usb tuner attached and I have one tuner set up on another pc. I have both pc's and the usb tuner on the same subnet all with different static ip's.

Is this going to cause a problem? If so, how should it be configured?

This configuration seems to be working fairly well for me.

Please explain this in more detail.

Thanks.

Lets forget about InfiniTVs for a second, and just assume 2 Ethernet cards. Both cards are in the same machine, but are plugged into different networks. Both networks use the address range 192.168.0.0/24
Your PC wants to send data to the IP address 192.168.0.13 (assume this is not either of the IPs of the NICs in your PC). Now there's a problem - that address could potentially exist on either of those two networks, and the PC doesn't know which one you want it to go to, so it goes out the one with the lowest metric - which isn't what you want. You can also have address conflicts, etc. It just turns into a mess real quick.

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post #1637 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 01:17 PM
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Wow! I'm so excited! I just ordered my Fios service with the card! I've always wanted to do this but never could cause I was always with Dish. Now old dreams are coming true! Thanks to this thread (and Fios coming to my area as of yesterday) I was able to pull the trigger. Will report back in February. Sorry for posting this but I just couldn't resist...
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post #1638 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Lets forget about InfiniTVs for a second, and just assume 2 Ethernet cards. Both cards are in the same machine, but are plugged into different networks. Both networks use the address range 192.168.0.0/24
Your PC wants to send data to the IP address 192.168.0.13 (assume this is not either of the IPs of the NICs in your PC). Now there's a problem - that address could potentially exist on either of those two networks, and the PC doesn't know which one you want it to go to, so it goes out the one with the lowest metric - which isn't what you want. You can also have address conflicts, etc. It just turns into a mess real quick.

I am still confused, why do we have two separate networks? Why don't we just have one network with everthing on the same network and same subnet?
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post #1639 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makomako View Post

I am still confused, why do we have two separate networks? Why don't we just have one network with everthing on the same network and same subnet?

The InfiniTV is effectively it's own network, and separate from your home network

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post #1640 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 02:23 PM
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Eric, I have a question for you and hope you can help.

I recently put the ceton pcie card in my win2011 server, and am serving all 4 tuners to one htpc. Everything is running very well, setup was a snap. However, creating the bridge with my intel gigabit Nic has dramatically reduced my speeds. Before the bridge, I was getting 90-100% network utilization. Now speeds have been cut in half! I can download at only 45MB/s max, where before I was averaging 100MB/s.

Is there any way to get my full giga/nic speed back, or does the tuner somehow limit this? In the ceton device properties there are two settings, one says "supported speed", default at 100. I thought maybe I could set this at 1000, and I did, but no difference in performance. No info on what this is that I could find.

Any help?

Thanks man!
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post #1641 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ichoozjc View Post

Eric, I have a question for you and hope you can help.

I recently put the ceton pcie card in my win2011 server, and am serving all 4 tuners to one htpc. Everything is running very well, setup was a snap. However, creating the bridge with my intel gigabit Nic has dramatically reduced my speeds. Before the bridge, I was getting 90-100% network utilization. Now speeds have been cut in half! I can download at only 45MB/s max, where before I was averaging 100MB/s.

Is there any way to get my full giga/nic speed back, or does the tuner somehow limit this? In the ceton device properties there are two settings, one says "supported speed", default at 100. I thought maybe I could set this at 1000, and I did, but no difference in performance. No info on what this is that I could find.

Any help?

Thanks man!

That speed is purely cosmetic. What CPU is in the server? If it's an Atom, you may be hitting CPU limitations

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post #1642 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 03:57 PM
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What do you mean by cosmetic? Cpu in server is x4 830 quadcore. What I was trying to say was:

Before I created bridge:
could dl/ul to server @ 100+ megabytes/sec

After I created bridge:
Max ul/dl is no more than 45 megabytes/sec

Nothing else changed, and I tested speeds right before I created the bridge. Does the ceton tuner normally limit network speeds when bridged?
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post #1643 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ichoozjc View Post

What do you mean by cosmetic?

I meant the Supported Speed dropdown. Beyond that, I'm not certain, maybe there is some logging? We're just using Windows bridging there.

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post #1644 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

The InfiniTV is effectively it's own network, and separate from your home network

Ok, so now I am getting worried, your response to me sounds very vague. I asked about pretty basic configuration information and you seem to skirt around any specific questions I have. Maybe I am just an idiot but so far I still don't understand anything you have tried to explain.

I think your company would be wise to put together a technical document that explains all the details of how the device works including all details on the networking part.

I have sent your company several logs of reboots and have yet to receive one reply. I really want this device to function correctly but I am loosing all hope.

I have to say your tech support is really lacking. They are quick to respond to an initial email, but after that you never here from them again. You can send them log after log and never get a replay, I have to wonder if they are even getting the logs I send.
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post #1645 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

The InfiniTV is effectively it's own network, and separate from your home network


Well that is clear as mud.
Thanks!
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post #1646 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makomako View Post

Ok, so now I am getting worried, your response to me sounds very vague. I asked about pretty basic configuration information and you seem to skirt around any specific questions I have. Maybe I am just an idiot but so far I still don't understand anything you have tried to explain.

I think your company would be wise to put together a technical document that explains all the details of how the device works including all details on the networking part.

I have sent your company several logs of reboots and have yet to receive one reply. I really want this device to function correctly but I am loosing all hope.

I have to say your tech support is really lacking. They are quick to respond to an initial email, but after that you never here from them again. You can send them log after log and never get a replay, I have to wonder if they are even getting the logs I send.


I am not trying to dodge your questions, I apologize if it appears that way.
Here's the breakdown (this assumes Network tuners are not in use):
NIC #1 - Ethernet Card, goes to other home computers and Internet - 192.168.1.0/24
NIC #2 - InfiniTV. You need to think of the InfiniTV as a network card with a crossover cable hooked to another computer, as that's what it effectively is (there's no physical cable, and the "other computer" is the InfiniTV itself, but it's the same basic idea). By default this is 192.168.200.0/24, and will coexist just fine with NIC#1 above, however, if you set change the IP address to something on the 192.168.1.0/24 (again, we are talking without using Network Tuners here) your PC suddenly has two routes to the 192.168.1.0/24 network, except they are two different networks - the PC no longer has a way to know which traffic should go out which interface, hence why this is bad.

Please don't interpret this as rude, but I don't know how else to explain it - if that still seems unclear, perhaps someone else can try and re-phrase what I'm attempting to say?

Regarding your ticket number, please PM me the # and I will look into what is going on with it.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #1647 of 4790 Old 01-27-2012, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Please don't interpret this as rude, but I don't know how else to explain it - if that still seems unclear, perhaps someone else can try and re-phrase what I'm attempting to say?

I thought it was clear the first time you explained it. And the second. And this third explanation was particularly thorough. Anyone who does not understand it now just does not understand networking and routing.

If only you could solve the intermittent tuner problems as easily as you explained the networking aspect of the InfiniTV....
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post #1648 of 4790 Old 01-28-2012, 07:51 AM
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erickotz, thanks for explaining it to me again, I think I understand it now. I guess I was a bit rude,I am sorry about that.

How does a pc on my 192.168.1.0 network that is set up to use one of the tuners get routed to the 192.168.200.1 address? Does it just get to the tuner using the ip address of the pc that the tuner is attached to?

Thanks!
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post #1649 of 4790 Old 01-28-2012, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makomako View Post

erickotz, thanks for explaining it to me again, I think I understand it now. I guess I was a bit rude,I am sorry about that.

How does a pc on my 192.168.1.0 network that is set up to use one of the tuners get routed to the 192.168.200.1 address? Does it just get to the tuner using the ip address of the pc that the tuner is attached to?

Thanks!

If you wanted another PC on your 192.168.1.0 network to use one of the tuners, you would need to enable network tuning, and it would create a network bridge between the tuner and the nic on the host PC. The bridge would be on the same network then (192.168.1.x). Then your other pc's would be able to communicate with the tuner.
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post #1650 of 4790 Old 01-28-2012, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

It is a good thing I kept my TiVo when I got my InfiniTV. I had put the TiVo in the closet when I first got the InfiniTV, but when I started having frequent no recordings and partial recordings with the InfiniTV about 8 months ago, I pulled the TiVo out and started using it for a backup.

Right on! We originally got our InfiniTV card to replace the cable company DVR and save on the monthly rental. We intended to keep the DVR for a month or two as a precaution, till we were sure that everything was working properly on the Ceton.

A month turned into two months, then three, four, six. My wife uses the DVR to watch TV while on the treadmill. Let's just say that we're saving on the fees for a second DVR. But now I'm glad we kept it, because whenever there's a glitch in a recorded show I can see if the same thing happened on the DVR -- so that she can't blame the Ceton!
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