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post #1 of 4795 Old 05-21-2011, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Welcome to the Latest AVS Ceton InfiniTV 4 Info Thread

Goal
I noticed there are few threads here and there and in different forums, I hope this thread can help some of the new owners to set up and troubleshoot the tuner if there is a problem.


Brief history
In 2010, after few years of R&D and speculations, a fully working CableCard tuner finally released. This is a great news for the HTPC users in US who want to watch the pay channel programming within Media Center. No more S video, RCA, component or firewire input and IR blaster from cable box to HTPC. Other benefits are HTPC will be able to record the pay channel content such as CNN, ESPN & HBO into our own HDDs instead of the cable box's hard drive. Last but not least, with CableCard tuner, we can send the cable box back to cable provider and save $12/cable box, since our HTPC will be able to do just the cable box does and much more.

Engadget review here.


Price
$199 -> http://cetoncorp.com/buy-now/

Ordering CableCard from your cable provider
Do yourself a favor, if you have not order the CableCard yet, please just tell them you need the dual stream cable card like the one we insert to Tivo. I know Ceton or your dealer will ask you to be very specific such as "Multi-Stream CableCARD M-Card". But most if not all the service operators will have no clue what you about to do and in their system they will not list it that way. According to Comcast rep when I ordered my CableCard, it listed as "dual stream cable card (TiVo)" in their system.

Official manufacture site

Official Setup Guide

http://cetoncorp.com/infinitv_support/ 


Set up other than local HDD as a Recorded TV folder
Set up Kensafe iStorage server in the desired storage server and initiate local machine connects to as an iSCSI server using the instruction here.

Follow the direction here if you want to get a free 1 server lisc of Kensafe iStorage server.


Installation
 

PCIe

Official Installation Guide

Official Installation Video

 

Cannon PC installation Video at YouTube - Video demonstrates steps for a Ceton InfiniTV 4 being installed in a PC.



Report problems to Ceton
Most likely before Ceton support will be able to help you out, you will need to send them the log. Please go to their Diagnostic Tool -> Diagnostic, describe your problem inside the top description box, click "collect information" and this tool will collect all the log. Save the log and email them. Yahoo mail and Gmail will think this is a virus after you attach and not allow you to send such log. You can use different email client or send the log via Ceton support site.


Most common problems
No TV signal
*Check your signal strength and make sure your signal strength is not -15 dBmV and more.
*Make sure you go thru the installation process, above, and activate and pairing your InfiniTV 4 tuner card with the cable provider's cable card.

Signal and Temp
Signal: From what I told by Ceton, we need the signal to be -10 dBmV to 10dBmV (some member using the Motorola signal booster to boost up the incoming signal.

I personally encountered some problems here and at the end, Comcast technician came back redo some of the coaxial wiring, removed the splitter and all fine after that. (from -15 dBmV to -1 to 3 dBmV now)
Temp: 60C to 70C (according to Ceton, anything over 70C we need to watch out) You can refer the signal and temp from their Diagnostic Tool OR you can try InfiniTV Status Media Center Plugin and after installed, it will be in the Extra section in Media Center.

"View or Listening Conflict" Media Center Message
*When you reboot and start your HTPC, this will be most likely the message displaying, about 5 to 10 secs, before the Live TV kicks in.
*According to Ceton, different AV vendors will block different ports/settings and such Windows message will appear. But with Ceton released Network Tuner Wizard, the build in tool will allows tuner to go thru different setting based on your AV software.
*Before the Official Network Tuner Wizard released in beginning of May, 11, there are few tricks to share the tuners. Different tricks or hacks can easily cause such Windows message appears.

"Video Error Files needed to display video are not installed or not working" Media Center Message
Below are what I noticed from different members to sove this problem.
* Disable "Exclusive" in the Properties of the default playback properties
* Change Windows Playback to stereo, 2 channel, and whatever speaker setting you have in Media Center
* Turn off navigation and animations sounds in Media Center
* If none of the above work, please try below and reboot.
Control Panel -> Programs -> Programs and Features -> Turn Windows Features on or off.
Turn off the media features. Reboot. Then follow the same procedure to turn them back on.
Please note that you will have to re-run the Media Center Setup.


Happy Live TV and Record 4 programming at once!

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post #2 of 4795 Old 05-21-2011, 05:20 PM
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... and watching.
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post #3 of 4795 Old 05-21-2011, 06:19 PM
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An 'Official' thread a year after the card came out? Why not just post in the other threads?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1234752
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post #4 of 4795 Old 05-21-2011, 08:11 PM
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It actually began shipping about 9 months ago back in August of 2010.

One wonders what makes a thread "official", especially considering everything the OP listed has previously been discussed in a multitude of other threads in this forum and several others. Methinks the barn doors have been closed long after the equines have egressed.
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post #5 of 4795 Old 05-22-2011, 09:49 AM
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It would be nce if there was just one thead but there are messages in dozens of threads that might be beneficial. I just replied to a question a poster had in a newly opened thread.. it is messy and the original topic is not active.

Just another blank signature.
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post #6 of 4795 Old 05-22-2011, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

An 'Official' thread a year after the card came out? Why not just post in the other threads?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1234752

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

It actually began shipping about 9 months ago back in August of 2010.

One wonders what makes a thread "official", especially considering everything the OP listed has previously been discussed in a multitude of other threads in this forum and several others. Methinks the barn doors have been closed long after the equines have egressed.

I think he already answered these questions at the start of his post:

Quote:


Goal
I noticed there are few threads here and there and in different forums, I hope this thread here can address some of the pre purchase questions, concerns and/or latest development about this tuner.

I think by "pre purchase questions", he meant "questions prior to purchasing"...I can see that being confusing.
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post #7 of 4795 Old 05-27-2011, 07:17 PM
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Ok quick question. Suppose I have one tuner available (the other 3 are busy for watching TV) and set a show to be recorded at 4:00PM and the show lasts one hour. Does that mean I won't be able to watch TV on that certain tuner for the rest of the day until 5 PM? Or I won't be able to watch TV on tuner for one hour only from 4-5? Kind of confusing.
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post #8 of 4795 Old 05-28-2011, 01:02 AM
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When you are considering the Ceton you might want to review your cable wiring. At least based on my experience so far, the Ceton required a much better signal to work than what made my Tivo happy.

I had been using a can type 1 in 4 out Channel Master distribution amp, this was a $30 item. I have a single one in - two out splitter outdoors where the cable enters the house. So I was down 3.5 dB from whatever was on the wire where it came out of the ground at the foundation.

The Tivo was completely happy attached to the Channel Master. I really expected the Ceton to perform simiarly. I was seeing about -9.5 dBmV signal and 33 dB SNR coming out of the Channel Master.. The Tivo was fine with that level of signal but the Ceton was marginal at best. The Ceton would have drove me crazy with that signal level. I was seeing lots of problems on certain stations with this. These were stations the Tivo locked to and almost never pixelated running with the same feed and same amp.

I then tried a Motorola BDA S4, which is a low noise one in 4 out amp at around $50 on Amazon.. this improved things quite a bit. I was now seeing about -6.5 dBmV with 35.5 SNR but still had channels dropping out and pixelating far too often, better but still it did not make the Ceton a production ready device. With Media Center you will be looking at a blue warning screen if things aren't working well. At that point I felt I had to throw the kitchen sink at the Ceton and go with the Motorola BDA-S1 amp with just one in and one out.

I am not sure what gain the Channel Master was rated for.. but it not only made less signal it also was noisier than the Motorola.

The BDA-S4 is really a BDA-S1 with a high quality 4 out splitter integrated and is specced at +4.0 dB on each out port with the 3dB of noise.

Since the BDA -S1 in not split it is rated at +15.0 dB with 2.5 dB of noise.

Using the BDA-S1 the Ceton's web internal web diagnostic page was showing right at +0 dBmV and 36 dB of SNR.

The Ceton is a very viable device with +0 dB of of high quality signal... it still is not perfect but it is comparable to how the Tivo performed at -9.5 dBmV.

I still see more dropped frames with the Ceton than on the Tivo. I was afraid to run the with this much signal. It is common for Tivo user to have to insert a splitter or some other device ahead of it to attneuate the signal. Why the dropped frames? I am not sure if that is Media Center, the codec or what. The box is an i3 running on the iGPU. I don't see these problems with my ATSC tuners.

I hate to stick a video card in there as the Ceton is hot enough and I don't want to add significantly to the power consumption. But it is clear that there is a bit of a timing problem somewhere and a bit more acceleration on the video side might be enough to aid with the dropped frames. The dropped frames are not a showstopper by any means, but you really notice them if you are not used to seeing them very often. With the Tivo you just did not see that. If some channel was having problems the Tivo would freeze just on that channel and that was quite rare on cable.

Either Ceton has some work to do on its firmware or their tuner sensitivity not at the same level as CE STN devices.

I don't want anyone to get the idea that I am uhappy with my Ceton it has retired my Tivo and is in production not in a testing phase. It is my only Digital cable device in the house. I just want people to understand that the Ceton device needs a strong signal. If I had two I could eliminate the splitter outside and go to a BDA -S2 which is 2 out amp with a gain in the +10 db range. Nothing is a problem now but should I decide I needed more tuners I would have to think about what would be the best approach as I still have to get my Cable Modem on the wire somewhere.

You may already have a great cable line coming into your home.. with the Ceton based on my experience if you don't have such a good signal you will need a high qualty Broadband Digital Amp like the Motorola and a minimal amout of splits. Clearly you can work with your cable company if necessary to get the signal up. On the other hand if you are like me you don't want Comcast in your house touching anything if you can avoid it at all.

Just another blank signature.
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post #9 of 4795 Old 05-28-2011, 07:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Ok quick question. Suppose I have one tuner available (the other 3 are busy for watching TV) and set a show to be recorded at 4:00PM and the show lasts one hour. Does that mean I won't be able to watch TV on that certain tuner for the rest of the day until 5 PM? Or I won't be able to watch TV on tuner for one hour only from 4-5? Kind of confusing.

You can use it until it is needed. To be honest, I have not tested what happens if you are using it and 4pm rolls in.
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post #10 of 4795 Old 05-28-2011, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You can use it until it is needed. To be honest, I have not tested what happens if you are using it and 4pm rolls in.

For set-top DVRs it will pop up a warning a few minutes before 4pm and ask if you want to change to the channel of the show being recorded or cancel one of the other recordings.

This would be something good to know about how WMC handles the conflict and pretty easy to test as well. I'm still on the fence about dumping DirecTV and going with Comcast just so I can use my HTPC and cablecard tuner.

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I suspect it would do the same thing. Before I had the Ceton, I had other tuner cards. When they were all in use a pop up would appear asking if it was ok to change channels for the recording or to cancel the recording.

I have not seen that pop up for a long time, ever since I got the Ceton, so I forgot all about it.
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post #12 of 4795 Old 05-28-2011, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post
When you are considering the Ceton you might want to review your cable wiring. At least based on my experience so far, the Ceton required a much better signal to work than what made my Tivo happy
If you have FIOS, you could have the opposite problem like I did, but still want to check into your wiring if you do

Basically, nothing besides the STB that I got when I first turned on service will work straight off the ONT feed, both my tivo and ceton are on splitters that reduce the signal.

It took several visits with the tivo last year and a lot of hassle to establish that the signal was "too hot".

Technically I didn't really test the ceton any other way (its on same splitter) but I'm guessing it is similar since there are several reports of it being picky with strong or weak signals compared to stock STBs. It might not always like the moca ethernet signal either. All fixable though.

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post #13 of 4795 Old 05-31-2011, 09:41 PM
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No doubt this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it. Can one use a common Recorded TV folder for both the host and client PC? Media center does not seem to allow anything other than recording to local hard drives, as opposed to network shares.

How would one go about recording on one PC and watching on another (assuming Copy Freely, of course)?

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post #14 of 4795 Old 05-31-2011, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

No doubt this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it. Can one use a common Recorded TV folder for both the host and client PC? Media center does not seem to allow anything other than recording to local hard drives, as opposed to network shares.

How would one go about recording on one PC and watching on another (assuming Copy Freely, of course)?

lifespeed,

I installed Kensafe iStorage server in my storage server and initiate HTPC Media Center connects to as an iSCSI server using the instruction here.

Follow the direction here if you want to get a free 1 server lisc of Kensafe iStorage server.

After above steps, you can easily add any single network share drive as the Recorded TV folder.
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post #15 of 4795 Old 06-01-2011, 06:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

No doubt this has been asked before, but I couldn't find it. Can one use a common Recorded TV folder for both the host and client PC? Media center does not seem to allow anything other than recording to local hard drives, as opposed to network shares.

How would one go about recording on one PC and watching on another (assuming Copy Freely, of course)?

Did you try mapping a drive to the Recorded TV folder and then adding that drive letter to the locations setup in WMC, instead of surfing the network for it? I have no idea if this will work, just thought I would throw it out there.
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post #16 of 4795 Old 06-01-2011, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Did you try mapping a drive to the Recorded TV folder and then adding that drive letter to the locations setup in WMC, instead of surfing the network for it? I have no idea if this will work, just thought I would throw it out there.

An interesting idea, I will try and see if it works. It would really be preferrable to have access to recordings from either HTPC by default. Try explaining to the wife about copying from one Recorded TV folder to the other . . .

In keeping with the minimum pieces required to work idea, I will forgo iSCSI unless it is the only way this will work.

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post #17 of 4795 Old 06-01-2011, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

An interesting idea, I will try and see if it works. It would really be preferrable to have access to recordings from either HTPC by default. Try explaining to the wife about copying from one Recorded TV folder to the other . . .

In keeping with the minimum pieces required to work idea, I will forgo iSCSI unless it is the only way this will work.

It won't work.

Beside software ISCI I shared with you, you can do hardware ISCI but it will be lot more expensive.

Other then that, you can schedule to copy the recorded materials daily to other HDD, other than the local drive.
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post #18 of 4795 Old 06-01-2011, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

It won't work.

Beside software ISCI I shared with you, you can do hardware ISCI but it will be lot more expensive.

Other then that, you can schedule to copy the recorded materials daily to other HDD, other than the local drive.

Sounds like you tried the folder/drive mapping already? Kind of irritating that WMC disallows network drives.

So, the difference with iSCSI is it looks like a local drive? I would just make my InfiniTV4 host with RAID array an iSCSI target?

Edit: After reading your iSCSI initiator link I have a couple more questions: It appears the iSCSI target will be formatted. Does it make sense for me to make my entire RAID array an iSCSI target, or partition a smaller chunk for Recorded TV. If I were to want to access the RAID array from a low level, say restore a windows image to another PC, iSCSI would not work, correct? So I don't really want to commit my entire array to access only by iSCSI because it is not accessible under the widest range of circumstances?

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post #19 of 4795 Old 06-01-2011, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Sounds like you tried the folder/drive mapping already? Kind of irritating that WMC disallows network drives.

Yes and agree. I think MS locks this for few reasons. In a high level, unless it is local HDD, it might not be recorded for different reasons as you said "it is not accessible under the widest range of circumstances"

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

So, the difference with iSCSI is it looks like a local drive? I would just make my InfiniTV4 host with RAID array an iSCSI target?

Yes, iSCSI target drive will appear in your local machine as local drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

Edit: After reading your iSCSI initiator link I have a couple more questions: It appears the iSCSI target will be formatted. Does it make sense for me to make my entire RAID array an iSCSI target, or partition a smaller chunk for Recorded TV.

It is really up to you how to set it up but please remember if you want more than 1 target HDD, you will end up paying them $99. It is free if you use only 1 HDD as target drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

If I were to want to access the RAID array from a low level, say restore a windows image to another PC, iSCSI would not work, correct?

No, it will work, it will treat as part of the RAID just like image the OS to different drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifespeed View Post

So I don't really want to commit my entire array to access only by iSCSI because it is not accessible under the widest range of circumstances?

Yes, same here. If I were you just try to make it as simple as you can. Back up and Recorded TV will be as far as I go but no more IMO. Please try Recorded TV first.

Based on what you describe, you and I want/have the same set up. I am pretty sure you will like it. The target drive is VERY fast and act just like a local drive.
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post #20 of 4795 Old 06-01-2011, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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If I may I like to share this remote to you all. I can't tell you how much my family like this remote. Actually my intention was just for the family to use instead of my keyboard to navigate the WMC but now I am using it a lot and lot less the keyboard within WMC now.

For example...
1) I can easily sleep and wake up the HTPC using the power button on the remote, just like the STB. Before they will just leave my HTPC on.
2) I can jump to very specific screen instead of few clicks from one screen to another. For example, if I am watching Live TV, I can easily jump to Recorded TV, Guide or very specific screen I want using the remote, instead of few more clicks via keyboard.

Again, there is nothing my keyboard can't do the remote can. But it is just lot faster, UI centric like STB, from very far away and it is family approved type remote just like the STB remote they used to have.
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post #21 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 05:23 AM
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I am going to build my HTPC soon and had a question. I am going to have a network tuner in my HTPC. So my question was, when I schedule a show to be recorded from another computer, is it going to be recorded in that computer or the HTPC?
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post #22 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

I am going to build my HTPC soon and had a question. I am going to have a network tuner in my HTPC. So my question was, when I schedule a show to be recorded from another computer, is it going to be recorded in that computer or the HTPC?

HTPC. But please note that it can only be play back from the "another computer" if the content is "Copy Protected".
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post #23 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post


HTPC. But please note that it can only be play back from the "another computer" if the content is "Copy Protected".

I thought it can't be played back in another computer if it's copy protected.
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post #24 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

I thought it can't be played back in another computer if it's copy protected.

Yes. Do you want to use "another computer" to just remote to control the recording schedules or to act like a full Media Center and able to record and playback but just without the physical Ceton to be there?
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post #25 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post


Yes. Do you want to use "another computer" to just remote to control the recording schedules or to act like a full Media Center and able to record and playback but just without the physical Ceton to be there?

Yea use it as a full media center pc without the physical tuner card there. You can distribute the tuners amongst other computers in the network right? Will the recordings be stored in that computer or the HTPC?
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post #26 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Yea use it as a full media center pc without the physical tuner card there. You can distribute the tuners amongst other computers in the network right? Will the recordings be stored in that computer or the HTPC?

Yes. That computer but there are other ways you can store it in different computer.
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post #27 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post


Yes. That computer but there are other ways you can store it in different computer.

My HTPC will also act as a server so I have to make sure all my recordingz stay in the HTPC. Could you suggest how I can make it record in the HTPC?
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post #28 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

My HTPC will also act as a server so I have to make sure all my recordingz stay in the HTPC. Could you suggest how I can make it record in the HTPC?

#14 post in this thread.
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post #29 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 12:59 PM
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Kewl.
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post #30 of 4795 Old 06-04-2011, 04:05 PM
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Yeah, the iSCSI is a clever solution. I'm just not sure if it is worth bothering for the rare occasions where a show is recorded on a client instead of the server. At least for me, it might make more sense to just copy it manually. Wife will have to learn or ask. Sometimes it's just too much trouble to make it happen automagically . . .

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