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post #1 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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I keep reading lately how normal dxva is junk and madvr is where its at. I played around with it a bit but couldn't get it working right. Is there a one stop place on how to get this all set up?

I just need to finally see for myself if the PQ is that much better that I need to do the switch.

Btw my gpu is a gtx 460 and I hear this plays well with nvidia cards.
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post #2 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 02:23 PM
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I don't notice much difference..

I think the fighting seems to be about Nev not wanting to change lav splitter to fix header info that ffdshow dxva barfs on so people publicly denounce ffdshow dxva as junk.. which in turn gives dxva a bad name in general..

Meanwhile mp-hc dxva and total media theater 5 and power dvd dxva offload to gpu's without any issue and produce a fantastic picture.. even on IGP systems.

I'm pretty sure in the future madvr type gpu rendering may be the future of video but man, i'm certainly not going along for the painful ride to get there just yet.. its SOOO finicky
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post #3 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 02:54 PM
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I think madvr is 32 bit only. Personally I think default settings with lav are plenty good enough. No need to tweak it to death imo although some will disagree.
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post #4 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Yah I'm pretty happy right now using sharks. I think I am actually using ffdshow dxva as it was the best to get subs working. But a lot of people say it sucks. I keep hearing how great lav and madvr are.

Can I use lav to bitstream hd audio with internal wmc player and ditch sharks?
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post #5 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Can I use lav to bitstream hd audio with internal wmc player and ditch sharks?

Absolutely. Its in my guide.
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post #6 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 05:59 PM
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In the near future, when the LAV filters become more stable, they will be part of my releases.
They are not quite ready for all out distribution at this time.

Use Shark007 Codecs and retain your sanity.
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post #7 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post

In the near future, when the LAV filters become more stable, they will be part of my releases.
They are not quite ready for prime time distribution just yet.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I have been using it and it works fabulously.
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post #8 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Gonna have to disagree with you there. I have been using it and it works fabulously.

I'm glad for you. Nothing wrong with disagreement.

Use Shark007 Codecs and retain your sanity.
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post #9 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 06:10 PM
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I'm glad for you. Nothing wrong with disagreement.

Agreed. Look forward to seeing how you integrate it into your pack.
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post #10 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Yah I'm pretty happy right now using sharks. I think I am actually using ffdshow dxva as it was the best to get subs working. But a lot of people say it sucks. I keep hearing how great lav and madvr are.

Can I use lav to bitstream hd audio with internal wmc player and ditch sharks?

Lav filters is a much simpler setup for bitsreaming than sharks or ffd, I don't think you can use cuvid madvr in the native wmc player though or it dosnt work that well.

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post #11 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

I keep reading lately how normal dxva is junk and madvr is where its at. I played around with it a bit but couldn't get it working right. Is there a one stop place on how to get this all set up?

I just need to finally see for myself if the PQ is that much better that I need to do the switch.

Btw my gpu is a gtx 460 and I hear this plays well with nvidia cards.

Default settings on MadVR produces similar results to ffdshow on DXVA.

Take a look at enabling the 3D Color Lookup table (3DLUT) and use a custom
resolution to work around Nvdia's long standing bug where the driver crushes
the black level (forced compression of video levels to 16-235 irregardless of settings
if default HDTV resolutions are used, washes out the dark scenes.)

To get the best dynamic range MadVR needs 0-255 video levels.

If you like what you see, experimenting with chroma upsampling wil take
you to the next level. On 4:2:2 material ie the BD or DVD material
MadVR produces better results than DXVA,

Live with MadVR for a few weeks and then go back to FFDShow and see if you notice the difference.
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post #12 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post


Default settings on MadVR produces similar results to ffdshow on DXVA.

Take a look at enabling the 3D Color Lookup table (3DLUT) and use a custom
resolution to work around Nvdia's long standing bug where the driver crushes
the black level (forced compression of video levels to 16-235 irregardless of settings
if default HDTV resolutions are used, washes out the dark scenes.)

To get the best dynamic range MadVR needs 0-255 video levels.

If you like what you see, experimenting with chroma upsampling wil take
you to the next level. On 4:2:2 material ie the BD or DVD material
MadVR produces better results than DXVA,

Live with MadVR for a few weeks and then go back to FFDShow and see if you notice the difference.

When you use chroma upsampling on bds can you really notice a big, or any, difference?

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post #13 of 581 Old 06-01-2011, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeydrunk View Post

When you use chroma upsampling on bds can you really notice a big, or any, difference?

Color information is stored at half resolution on BD. The thing
to look for is color banding (quite obvious on Anime) or the lack of
smooth gradations.

A good example would be the solar flare during the opening sequence
of the Star Trek Voyager TV series.

DXVA does an average job and bands are quite obvious.

Scenes with a lot of shiny or reflective content offer appear more dull on the DXVA renderer compared to MadVR

Shafts of sunlight penetrating cloud cover in some movies is one place to look as well.

If you look at light reflected off fine metal gauze/grating,
you will often see a moire effect, that should not be there, as
the CUE algorithm is not doing a good job.

The high dynamic range color used in movies such as the Chronicles of Riddick's scenes of Helion gets trashed by AVC's 4:2:0 decimation .
MadVR brings some of it back. On DXVA it looks plain dull and hazy.
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post #14 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 12:09 AM
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Well, after using a HTPC for quite some time in years past, trying all types of different things. I was mostly trying to get a better picture from regular DVD's with ffdshow,ect. It did work, when it "worked" but after 1080p finally came out I got tired of always having to fix something, and just used ISO and commercial players or stand alone.

But I just recently started again to see if open source worked without taking forever to setup and actually work with bit streaming HD audio. I was rusty on quite a few things but found that using media browser with mpc-hc it wasn't very difficult.

But I was somewhat surprised that I'm getting better video using the LAV filters, Madvr, cyberlink video decoder from PDVD 11, than just using PDVD 11 itself. I didn't want ffdshow back on my computer, tired of it from the past.

It all works fine so far with just a ATI 5450 video card in a i3 intel clarksdale. I hadn't planned on using a video card after getting the Clarksdale. But maybe that was kind of my fault for not reading about Intel Graphics for a HTPC ahead of time, like the G45.

But anyway, that's what I use right now for a HTPC and I found Madvr to make enough difference with video, that I can tell without wondering about it.
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post #15 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeydrunk View Post

When you use chroma upsampling on bds can you really notice a big, or any, difference?

Just to be clear Chroma upsampling is required in order to display the image properly.

BD is stored as 4:2:0 but is output as 4:2:2.

What MadVR give us is the ability to tweak an important part of the display and rendering pipeline.
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post #16 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post


Just to be clear Chroma upsampling is required in order to display the image properly.

BD is stored as 4:2:0 but is output as 4:2:2.

What MadVR give us is the ability to tweak an important part of the display and rendering pipeline.

I use madvr. I didn't realize that that's what you were talking about when referring to chroma upsampling I thought you were referring to using a different program as well

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post #17 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post
Color information is stored at half resolution on BD. The thing
to look for is color banding (quite obvious on Anime) or the lack of
smooth gradations.

A good example would be the solar flare during the opening sequence
of the Star Trek Voyager TV series.

DXVA does an average job and bands are quite obvious.

Scenes with a lot of shiny or reflective content offer appear more dull on the DXVA renderer compared to MadVR

Shafts of sunlight penetrating cloud cover in some movies is one place to look as well.

What video card? what filter/codec are you using for DXVA?

I find MPC-HC + EVR (sm 2.0) + DXVA to be hard to beat.. 1-2% cpu load playing full bitrate mkv bd movies and my 880g igp has no problem keeping it.. quiet as can be
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post #18 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 07:07 AM
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So where's the madvr guide? Where is the code to be downloaded?

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post #19 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byronmhome View Post
I think the fighting seems to be about Nev not wanting to change lav splitter to fix header info that ffdshow dxva barfs on so people publicly denounce ffdshow dxva as junk
The way H264 is demuxed is correct the way it is. ffdshow DXVA is just broken. They stole their DXVA code from the MPC-HC DXVA decoder (which btw does not suffer from these problems), without proper understanding of how it works.
In combination with ffdshow basically not having any developers anymore, it is just junk.

If you want an open-source DXVA decoder, i recommend the MPC-HC decoders.

PS:
I just submitted a fix for the crash to the ffdshow folks.
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post #20 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
The way H264 is demuxed is correct the way it is. ffdshow DXVA is just broken. They stole their DXVA code from the MPC-HC DXVA decoder (which btw does not suffer from these problems), without proper understanding of how it works.
In combination with ffdshow basically not having any developers anymore, it is just junk.

If you want an open-source DXVA decoder, i recommend the MPC-HC decoders.

PS:
I just submitted a fix for the crash to the ffdshow folks.
I'm with ya on that Nev I think ffdshow isn't the best dxva implementation, i was merely just trying to state that because of ffdshow a lot of people write off dxva as a whole now.

I use MPC-HC dxva myself and it runs great!

Quick question, any chance lav splitter will do MediaFoundation here? i'd love to get rid of divx splitter so my xbox can play mkvs in media center. Thanks!
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post #21 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post
Color information is stored at half resolution on BD. The thing
to look for is color banding (quite obvious on Anime) or the lack of
smooth gradations.

A good example would be the solar flare during the opening sequence
of the Star Trek Voyager TV series.

DXVA does an average job and bands are quite obvious.

Scenes with a lot of shiny or reflective content offer appear more dull on the DXVA renderer compared to MadVR

Shafts of sunlight penetrating cloud cover in some movies is one place to look as well.

If you look at light reflected off fine metal gauze/grating,
you will often see a moire effect, that should not be there, as
the CUE algorithm is not doing a good job.

The high dynamic range color used in movies such as the Chronicles of Riddick's scenes of Helion gets trashed by AVC's 4:2:0 decimation .
MadVR brings some of it back. On DXVA it looks plain dull and hazy.
You sound pretty well versed in this. I'm curious to see your madvr settings. Do you mind posting? Thanks.
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post #22 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
The way H264 is demuxed is correct the way it is. ffdshow DXVA is just broken. They stole their DXVA code from the MPC-HC DXVA decoder (which btw does not suffer from these problems), without proper understanding of how it works.
In combination with ffdshow basically not having any developers anymore, it is just junk.

If you want an open-source DXVA decoder, i recommend the MPC-HC decoders.

PS:
I just submitted a fix for the crash to the ffdshow folks.

DXVA aside, do you have similiar feelings about ffdshow as a whole? If so, do you have any recommended decoder(s) for use with your filters and madvr? ATI gpu here.
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post #23 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverhawk79 View Post
DXVA aside, do you have similiar feelings about ffdshow as a whole? If so, do you have any recommended decoder(s) for use with your filters and madvr? ATI gpu here.
I do think that ffdshow is a lost cause, no developers and lingering bugs that noone will ever fix. However, there currently is no other solution that just plays most formats around.
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post #24 of 581 Old 06-02-2011, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by byronmhome View Post

What video card? what filter/codec are you using for DXVA?

I find MPC-HC + EVR (sm 2.0) + DXVA to be hard to beat.. 1-2% cpu load playing full bitrate mkv bd movies and my 880g igp has no problem keeping it.. quiet as can be

EVR + Nvidia DXVA2 was what I had before MadVR.

Now it is LAVCUVID + MadVR, picture quality is
good enough that I stopped using my Oppo BDP83 player.

Video card is a GT430 with MPC_HC and MC16 for the players.
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post #25 of 581 Old 06-03-2011, 12:07 AM
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so in mpchc64, in external filters I had before the lav audio/splitter/splitter source added and checked preferred. now that i've added cuvid, do i need to unprefer any of the others or just check preffered on cuvid as well and leave the others preferred and in use too? (yes, im using nvidia gpu (550ti))
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post #26 of 581 Old 06-03-2011, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riverhawk79 View Post

You sound pretty well versed in this. I'm curious to see your madvr settings. Do you mind posting? Thanks.

Video levels 0-255
Enable 3DLUT
Chroma upscaling Catmull-Rom
Luma upscaling Softcubic@50 sharpmess
Luma downscaling Softcubic@50sharpness

Here is comparison of the scaling algorithms written by Don Munsil
with comments by Stacey Spears, 2 leading experts
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...&&#post4767386

You will need yCms to generate the 280Mb 3d LUT table
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=154719

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?...19&postcount=2

Put the generated files in the madVR directory
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post #27 of 581 Old 06-03-2011, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcain View Post

so in mpchc64, in external filters I had before the lav audio/splitter/splitter source added and checked preferred. now that i've added cuvid, do i need to unprefer any of the others or just check preffered on cuvid as well and leave the others preferred and in use too? (yes, im using nvidia gpu (550ti))

There is no obvious conflict based on your description, setting LAVCUVID
will not hurt provided you don't have another video decoder also
set to preferred such as ffdshow video or CoreAVC

To see what is being used, open the video file and right click while it is loaded and select filters .
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post #28 of 581 Old 06-03-2011, 12:48 AM
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seems good to me, eh?

LL
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post #29 of 581 Old 06-03-2011, 02:59 AM
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seems good to me, eh?

Looks good
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post #30 of 581 Old 06-03-2011, 07:00 AM
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Except that he's not using MadVR renderer
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