Official 7MC w/Extenders thread. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 06-07-2011, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Didn't see one of these posts here so I thought I would start a thread dedicated to using 7MC with extenders. Everything I read on these forums is mostly about using 7MC to feed one TV. Extenders are an afterthought. Even Assassins great guide makes little to no mention on how to modify your build to support multiple extenders. So, post your experiences with extenders here and ask away.

I'm in the process of building a new setup with three Xbox 360s from day one. Has anyone run into issues with extenders that I should be aware of? Any of the suggestions in the setup guides on these forums cause problems for extenders? Work arounds if so? Anyone having issues using the PC as a full media center instead of a headless media center? How many extenders can you have running at once before issues crop up?

I'm interested in hearing people's experiences with extenders and 7MC.
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post #2 of 43 Old 06-07-2011, 07:44 AM
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I currently use a 7MC HTPC with 2 extenders and a WHS for serving my house. However, I am in the process of buliding my next home, and I am going to use a slightly different strategy in it. I will have a "Family" HTPC that my family's extenders connect to (basement, their bedrooms, office, etc) and a "guest" HTPC that my guests can connect to in their bedrooms when they stay via Xboxes. This way, they won't see, delete, or impact the recordings of the family, but they will still get all the benefits of the their own live tv, recordings, audio, videos, etc.

This will be handled similarly to the family HTPC which has an SSD for the OS, a 1 tb drive for recordings, and a Ceton InfiniTV 4. The quest HTPC will be almost identical, minus the dedicated video card.

As far as using Xboxes to connect to the HTPC, it could not be simpler. It just works. My only beef is that there is a not an efficient way to play my blu ray iso through the extenders....but I guess that is what Dune HD players are for ;-).

If you have any specific questions, please let me know.

I will try to answer the ones in your post.

I have not run into any issues with using extenders. My HTPC is full media center, it is connected to my main viewing TV / reciever that we use to watch movies and TV. There is no impact when the extenders connect to it to watch tv, other than using up tuners if they are watching live tv on a different channel than the HTPC is.

I don't know how many extenders you could connect to 7MC, but I believe I heard it was 8. I only have 4 tunes available in my current HTPC, so i wouldn't connect more than 3, unless I put another Ceton in it.
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post #3 of 43 Old 06-07-2011, 08:27 AM
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So far I am happy with WMC PC + XBox360 extenders for television. My only issue is lack of network connectivity to the downstairs TV. I can't easily get Cat5/6 down there, and in that location neither wireless or powerline networking works reliably. Haven't tried MoCA yet, but that seems to be the only other solution I have short of ripping holes in walls to get a connection there. You really need GB networking for reliability once you factor in multiple HD streams and other network traffic.

The biggest issue is the dysfunctional media support on the 360 - some stuff only works in WMC and some stuff only works though the video player. To get to Netflix you must have a gold account and drop out of WMC interface to get to use. You have at least 4 different video players in the 360 so it can be 'too complicated' for anything more than just TV:
Media Connect
Media Center
Netflix
Zune

For WAF, we just use the 360 for TV only and a separate WDTV box for video streaming and Netflix.
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post #4 of 43 Old 06-07-2011, 08:47 AM
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I'd love to have a single HTPC and extenders (not XBox). The problem is finding them and not paying through the nose for them. I got a Linksys extender for $100 a year ago. Now searching they come up as $200-$350!. I tried to find one of the HP ones and those are at least $180.

It's really annoying there are no non-XBox exenders still in production.

 

 

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post #5 of 43 Old 06-07-2011, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

I'd love to have a single HTPC and extenders (not XBox). The problem is finding them and not paying through the nose for them. I got a Linksys extender for $100 a year ago. Now searching they come up as $200-$350!. I tried to find one of the HP ones and those are at least $180.

It's really annoying there are no non-XBox exenders still in production.

I paid $75 bucks for an HP a year ago. I just use it to play HD cable (Ceton) and Music. I like it well enough.. Low power consumption and no noise. Really like the remote with it. I am hoping to find another good used one somewhere but with 4gig xboxes as cheap as they are it is hard to justify over a hundred bucks for a used extender.

To be able to stream BD to one of these WMC extenders would be kind of the holy grail. I don't really want a bunch of black boxes all over the place at every TV. If the cablecard tuners keep dropping in price it makes the extenders limitations loom even larger.

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post #6 of 43 Old 06-07-2011, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the Netflix/Hulu.com limitation situation with extenders? Granted I'll have an Xbox at every TV and can get to those features through it but I would like to have it all in one place.

That said, the Xbox 4GB boxes can be found for $150 every so often. Sometimes they will be $199 and include a $50 gift card to the store. All the extenders on eBay are capped by the falling price of the 4GB Xbox. Why buy a used extender that no longer has any support from the manufacturer when you can buy an Xbox 4GB? I don't see the logic in adamantly wanting anything other a new Xbox Slim 4GB. They are crazy good media devices.
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post #7 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 01:23 PM
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I am planning on a Cablecard + Extender revision to my current HTPC. My questions relate mostly to maximizing the WAF. In particular when looking at the Xbox 360 vs the other extenders, which will be quickest to startup (time until live tv is on) and which will be most responsive for channel changes, accessing the guide etc? Also, is there a huge difference in these factors between the various xbox models/generations (the new 'S' models vs the older ones or even any differences among the various models within each generation)?

I read a lot of the reviews but couldn't find specific details and minimal information on any changes with the new generation of xboxs.

Thanks
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post #8 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 02:02 PM
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the dedicated extenders (i.e. linksys dma 2x00) will be the fastest to start up because you can leave them on 24/7. you can't leave the xbox on.

a big part of channel change speed is a function of tuner speed, not the extender, so that one is difficult to quantify.

menu and guide navigation speed is ok with the either type of extender as long as you turn animations off.
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post #9 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 02:06 PM
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I choose to let my HP x280n sleep when not used. Sometimes it is not used for a long time. The speed of the PC really determines channel change speed. if you had to cruise through the guide with hundreds of channels it might be enoying but since you can just press 8 or 626 you can go anywhere in the guide in a second or two.. the experience is remarkably the same as the PC.

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post #10 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kressilac View Post

What's the Netflix/Hulu.com limitation situation with extenders? Granted I'll have an Xbox at every TV and can get to those features through it but I would like to have it all in one place.

That said, the Xbox 4GB boxes can be found for $150 every so often. Sometimes they will be $199 and include a $50 gift card to the store. All the extenders on eBay are capped by the falling price of the 4GB Xbox. Why buy a used extender that no longer has any support from the manufacturer when you can buy an Xbox 4GB? I don't see the logic in adamantly wanting anything other a new Xbox Slim 4GB. They are crazy good media devices.

You can use Play on/play it to get these things to MC interface on extenders, this is what I did for my DMA2200.

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post #11 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 06:20 PM
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If you're in Europe the biggest limitation of the (now obsolete) extenders (other than the Xbox 360) is the lack of support for H264/MPEG4 Live/Recorded TV. In other words - no HD (and in some countries no SD...)

On the other hand a normal Win 7 HP install (or Win 7 Embedded Standard) with DVB Logic tuner virtualisation and Record Broker gives you the same functionality (and more) - and with Zacate/Atom+Ion platforms the size/noise etc. is similar.
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post #12 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 07:01 PM
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I borrowed an Xbox 360 4gb from Wal-mart and it took around 40 seconds and up after powering on with the controller before I could issue commands within the WMC extender interface (this was with it directly booting into the interface). If the x280n is allowed to 'sleep' what kind of timeframe should i be thinking about? With instant on by leaving the extender on can I think of it as equivalent to a STB from the cable co?

Thanks again.
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post #13 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooraysimpsons View Post

I borrowed an Xbox 360 4gb from Wal-mart and it took around 40 seconds and up after powering on with the controller before I could issue commands within the WMC extender interface (this was with it directly booting into the interface). If the x280n is allowed to 'sleep' what kind of timeframe should i be thinking about? With instant on by leaving the extender on can I think of it as equivalent to a STB from the cable co?

Thanks again.

Xbox uses/generates a lot of power/heat, leaving it on isn't the best choice. This is one of the things other extenders like Linksys out shine the Xbox, they still take a bit to come up but if you can't wait, they use/make much less power/heat so isn't as bad to leave them on all the time.

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post #14 of 43 Old 06-10-2011, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooraysimpsons View Post

I borrowed an Xbox 360 4gb from Wal-mart and it took around 40 seconds and up after powering on with the controller before I could issue commands within the WMC extender interface (this was with it directly booting into the interface). If the x280n is allowed to 'sleep' what kind of timeframe should i be thinking about? With instant on by leaving the extender on can I think of it as equivalent to a STB from the cable co?

Thanks again.

I haven't really timed it from sleep to the guide. Maybe 1 minute. I let it sleep because I might not use it for a couple of weeks. Right now it is mostly a test platform. If I was using it everyday I would probably not put it to sleep.

It is in a bedroom and gets used to play music more than TV. The display is a 58" Panny and it is a cross between a blast furnace and a vampire on these super hot Houston days.

I may get a 24" display to sit on the rack to select music... The thing I like about the hP is the universal remote for it, is a really decent piece..... better than 99 percent of the remotes. It has codes to support my reciever, my TV and the X280n while being a Media Center Remote with the standard Media Center and HP specific buttons.

I have not really investigated how well it streams high bit rate MP4 stuff.... That is the kind of thing I have low expectations around, having worked for Compaq and HP for 14 years.

I have so many other machines that I am trying to get working the way I want, the extender is not high on my things to do list... Nice thing about extenders there isn't much to screw with so they just work, well they do whatever their firmware will allow. No support on these old ones anymore. I haven't put a kil a watt meter on the HP, but based on touch and that it I have never heard a fan, my guess is that it is using about 25 watts doing 1080i cable TV. Maybe 5 watts in sleep. I may check it in the next few days and report back.

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post #15 of 43 Old 06-11-2011, 03:22 PM
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Thank you for all the details. I am assuming that if the extender is left on (my wife will use it multiple times a day) then it would behave similar to a set top box from the cable company?
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post #16 of 43 Old 06-12-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooraysimpsons View Post

Thank you for all the details. I am assuming that if the extender is left on (my wife will use it multiple times a day) then it would behave similar to a set top box from the cable company?

I guess it might go to sleep on its own at some point. If I have it up an running unattened it is usally either playing Live TV or playing music and in those cases it doesn't really go to sleep. I never checked the guide to see if it goes to sleep on its own in the guide. I have it attached to a plasma and so I turn the reciever and display off if I am not going to be in the room.. and I just put the HP to sleep as part of the drill. There is no real off/on that I see on the HP..... It it is out of the WMC and it is put to sleep it appears to go into a hibernation mode... which I like because I don't use it all the time.

I will be experimenting with streaming to it this week or next. I want know to if it can handle blu-ray derived mkv files.

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post #17 of 43 Old 06-12-2011, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post


I will be experimenting with streaming to it this week or next. I want know to if it can handle blu-ray derived mkv files.

I'm in the middle of re-doing my media solutions for my house and have a similar question.

My current understanding about 360s is that if the HTPC's 7MC they are connected to can play a file, then they can play a file. Is this correct?

Example - any file I can get 7MC to play will also automatically be compatible with any 360 attached as an extender...

Thanks!
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post #18 of 43 Old 06-13-2011, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeD1em500 View Post

I'm in the middle of re-doing my media solutions for my house and have a similar question.

My current understanding about 360s is that if the HTPC's 7MC they are connected to can play a file, then they can play a file. Is this correct?

Example - any file I can get 7MC to play will also automatically be compatible with any 360 attached as an extender...

Thanks!

not necessarily. the extenders can only play a very limited selection of codecs. the pc is far more flexible.
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post #19 of 43 Old 06-13-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemyram4x4 View Post

You can use Play on/play it to get these things to MC interface on extenders, this is what I did for my DMA2200.

PlayOn is interesting... do you know if using an XBox as an extender, is it possible to get PlayOn to be accessable from WITHIN the Media Center function of XBox? (looking on the PlayOn website, can't see that this is possible)

WAF negates leaving the MC interface and dealing with the XBox native menus. That is the problem with accessing the native Netflix, etal on XBox extenders.

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post #20 of 43 Old 06-13-2011, 11:35 AM
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PlayOn is interesting... do you know if using an XBox as an extender, is it possible to get PlayOn to be accessable from WITHIN the Media Center function of XBox? (looking on the PlayOn website, can't see that this is possible)

WAF negates leaving the MC interface and dealing with the XBox native menus. That is the problem with accessing the native Netflix, etal on XBox extenders.

Use vmcPlayIt(it's a MC addin) along w/ play on and you'll have access to everything you have set up on play on inside the MC interface via the play it menu.

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post #21 of 43 Old 06-13-2011, 08:37 PM
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not necessarily. the extenders can only play a very limited selection of codecs. the pc is far more flexible.
Hmm...then why does everyone rant and rave about them? So if I set up my HTPC to play mkvs and whatever else, the Xbox 360 I connect to it won't follow suit?

And to think I had solved my bedroom media question. :backtothedrawingboard:
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post #22 of 43 Old 06-14-2011, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeD1em500

Hmm...then why does everyone rant and rave about them? So if I set up my HTPC to play mkvs and whatever else, the Xbox 360 I connect to it won't follow suit?

And to think I had solved my bedroom media question. :backtothedrawingboard:
Check this out from Missing Remote for what they can play.

http://www.missingremote.com/guide/m...ers-comparison
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post #23 of 43 Old 06-14-2011, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeD1em500 View Post
Hmm...then why does everyone rant and rave about them? So if I set up my HTPC to play mkvs and whatever else, the Xbox 360 I connect to it won't follow suit?

And to think I had solved my bedroom media question. :backtothedrawingboard:
I just set my Xbox up as an extender last night and had no problems playing mkv, avi or mpeg4 videos however ts_video files would not play but other than that I had no problems. to my surprise the Media Browser plugin was already there also without having to do anything!
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post #24 of 43 Old 06-14-2011, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarpeD1em500 View Post
Hmm...then why does everyone rant and rave about them? So if I set up my HTPC to play mkvs and whatever else, the Xbox 360 I connect to it won't follow suit?

And to think I had solved my bedroom media question. :backtothedrawingboard:
They are great for Live TV but horrible for almost anything else, i have an xbox and a pc in each room that has an extender since the xbox wont play blu ray iso and im not converting the bluray to play on the xbox. Most people actually rant and rave in a negative way about the extenders.
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post #25 of 43 Old 06-14-2011, 05:58 AM
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I got a great deal on a new xbox360 but will return it after reading the comments. I have the hdhomerun prime on pre-order and my win 7 devices should be able to access the tuner and I don't have to worry about blu-ray iso's & some hack.
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post #26 of 43 Old 06-14-2011, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger View Post

Check this out from Missing Remote for what they can play.

http://www.missingremote.com/guide/m...ers-comparison

That is a list of media players in general. The only Media Center extender on that list is the XBox 360.
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post #27 of 43 Old 06-14-2011, 03:10 PM
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That is a list of media players in general. The only Media Center extender on that list is the XBox 360.

Which is the only one currently made. The question was about what video types the xbox could handle. Those are in the table.

There is always a Sage option. I haven't tried it, but the HD300 is supposed to be pretty nice.
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post #28 of 43 Old 06-14-2011, 03:26 PM
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You can also transcode many unsupported formats to ones your extender supports.

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post #29 of 43 Old 06-15-2011, 04:39 PM
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i really like my xbox extender.


once you get over that initial hump of converting everything you already had to a container that xbox likes, it works flawlessly.

there's no tweaking to be done on the xbox, you get a shared guide to setup recording, and any changes you make on the htpc show up on all the extenders.
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post #30 of 43 Old 06-16-2011, 08:07 AM
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Very happy with our XBox extenders also. We have 2 XBox extenders that we use at 2 TV locations. WAF is excellent:
- a single easy user interface to learn and use in HT and other TV locations
- a single electronic program guide at all locations so there is no second guessing about what was set to record where
- access to all/same recorded TV, BD movies, music, photos, home videos, etal at each location
- access at each location to 4 HD TV tuners (Ceton cablecard card) with one SD cable subscription

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