Hauppauge WinTV DCR-2650 Dual Cable Card Tuner For US Market! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 479 Old 07-13-2011, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Didn't see this coming - http://www.facebook.com/hauppaugecomputerworks

The price is attractive, they are saying street price will be $130. Not everybody needs 4 streams in a Ceton and the price that goes along with it. I'm glad there's more competition and the price is going down on these things.

In fact you can run two of these, have four streams and still cheaper than the Ceton.

Those of you with Cable TV rejoice!

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post #2 of 479 Old 07-13-2011, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dj4monie View Post

Didn't see this coming - http://www.facebook.com/hauppaugecomputerworks

The price is attractive, they are saying street price will be $130. Not everybody needs 4 streams in a Ceton and the price that goes along with it. I'm glad there's more competition and the price is going down on these things.

In fact you can run two of these, have four streams and still cheaper than the Ceton.

Those of you with Cable TV rejoice!

Good to see. Hopefully even more tuners come out.
The only issue with getting two of these, is that you pay for an extra M-card every month. At least that'd be true with Comcast.

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post #3 of 479 Old 07-13-2011, 05:17 PM
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Looks good except its a USB model which means an external box and another wall wart. If they had an internal version that would be better.
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post #4 of 479 Old 07-13-2011, 06:12 PM
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I don't get it, don't they make the hdhomerun thing too?
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post #5 of 479 Old 07-13-2011, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by CFC View Post

Good to see. Hopefully even more tuners come out.
The only issue with getting two of these, is that you pay for an extra M-card every month. At least that'd be true with Comcast.

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That's true, that was just a suggestion but the cost is like $5 per card, that would still be cheaper than rental of two boxes from the cable company.

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Looks good except its a USB model which means an external box and another wall wart. If they had an internal version that would be better.

True but you already have a choice of an internal version (Ceton) and who's to day they won't come out with one? I didn't see this coming, it just happen to be on my FB page because I follow them.

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I don't get it, don't they make the hdhomerun thing too?

No Silicon Dust makes their own. That means there are going to be a few external models on the market and one internal. The 3 stream HomeRunHD Prime is more and only adds one tuner over this unit.

The idea is more competition in the market, will bring prices down. I can see trying to justify spending $500 but this is the only sub $200 model. If you really don't need more than two tuners and most of us don't then this will be an excellent investment.

Also if you're building a low TDP Small Form Factor HTPC, you don't have room for the Ceton internal tuner unless you get a case that will hold a full size card. The HomeRun is installed either directly to your NIC or on your network. USB is a simple connection and the bandwidth used even for HD is not a threat to USB 2.0.

This would be attractive to me IF I had Time Warner but I don't (don't want it)

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post #6 of 479 Old 07-13-2011, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dj4monie View Post

That's true, that was just a suggestion but the cost is like $5 per card, that would still be cheaper than rental of two boxes from the cable company.



True but you already have a choice of an internal version (Ceton) and who's to day they won't come out with one? I didn't see this coming, it just happen to be on my FB page because I follow them.


This is true. I'm sure at some point an internal version will be released.



No Silicon Dust makes their own. That means there are going to be a few external models on the market and one internal. The 3 stream HomeRunHD Prime is more and only adds one tuner over this unit.

The idea is more competition in the market, will bring prices down. I can see trying to justify spending $500 but this is the only sub $200 model. If you really don't need more than two tuners and most of us don't then this will be an excellent investment.

Also if you're building a low TDP Small Form Factor HTPC, you don't have room for the Ceton internal tuner unless you get a case that will hold a full size card. The HomeRun is installed either directly to your NIC or on your network. USB is a simple connection and the bandwidth used even for HD is not a threat to USB 2.0.

This would be attractive to me IF I had Time Warner but I don't (don't want it)

The Ceton card does have a half-height bracket for those cases that require low-profile cards. My current HTPC case uses such cards.
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post #7 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by dj4monie View Post


No Silicon Dust makes their own. That means there are going to be a few external models on the market and one internal. The 3 stream HomeRunHD Prime is more and only adds one tuner over this unit.

Hauppauge's Facebook page announcing the dual tuner WinTV-DCR-2650, which it developed in partnership with SiliconDust
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post #8 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 07:19 AM
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great price! I hope that forces ceton to lower their price (again).

I'm not a huge fan of hauppauge, though. in my experience, they make pretty decent hardware, but the drivers are terrible.
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post #9 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 07:58 AM
 
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My only concern is that, with the way WMC works with back to back recordings, you may find yourself needing more than two tuners quite a bit.

The defautl way WMC records shows is to use the same tuner if the two shows are back to back. No matter how perfectly you want to time things, this usually causes part of the second show to be record onto the end of the first show. Obviously, this is a problem.

The solution is to setup WMC to record 10 minutes after the show stops. NOT 10 minutes after if possible..but the one that forces it to happen. This means that if you have two sets of shows recording back to back (2 shows at 9:30 and 2 shows at 10:30), you will have 4 tuners in use 3 or 4 minutes before the hour through 10 minutes after the hour.
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post #10 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 11:57 AM
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Have you all noticed this is a M-Card only tuner - no ATSC reception??? Or can this tune ClearQAM from cable and OTA ATSC? The HDHomeRun-Prime can do them all, right?
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post #11 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew Hornfeck View Post

Have you all noticed this is a M-Card only tuner - no ATSC reception??? Or can this tune ClearQAM from cable and OTA ATSC? The HDHomeRun-Prime can do them all, right?

Just like Ceton, we are getting the OTA channels from cable company.
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post #12 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 01:41 PM
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"The WinTV-DCR-2650 is a collaboration between Hauppauge and Silicon Dust."

So basically this is just the usb 2 tuner HD homerun they were already talking about getting the Hauppauge branding.

The price is interesting since they are taking a shot at their own ethernet product. Its not really more competition per se but its a lot more likely to have widespread adoption. A lot more people can handle a usb dongle over having to configure a home network (not counting the typical connection to an isp provided router with a WEP key printed on the bottom...sigh) let alone having the courage to bring a screwdriver near a computer.

Its still a good thing for the rest of us using cablecards, the more the merrier. It will provide extra pressure on the service providers to get their act together on installs and support issues for things besides their crappy STBs, and bring more attention to improper billing as well.

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post #13 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dj4monie View Post

Didn't see this coming - http://www.facebook.com/hauppaugecomputerworks

The price is attractive, they are saying street price will be $130. Not everybody needs 4 streams in a Ceton and the price that goes along with it. I'm glad there's more competition and the price is going down on these things.

In fact you can run two of these, have four streams and still cheaper than the Ceton.

Those of you with Cable TV rejoice!

How locked down are recordings that you make with these things? I'm sure stuff like HBO but what about if you record stuff off of say ESPN or the like? Can you freely replay them using any software or at least windows media center on any PC or once you go to a new motherboard new system everything is lost?

HMm I bet even if you ever switch cable cards go with a different provider, quite service and hand the card back then all the protected content is boom lost. So the question is how much content gets protected in that way?

Does anyone know how FiOS handles cablecard? Pricing and sneaky issues? Verizon is a tricky place to get solid, upfront info from so if anyone has any real first hand experience....
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post #14 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

How locked down are recordings that you make with these things? I'm sure stuff like HBO but what about if you record stuff off of say ESPN or the like? Can you freely replay them using any software or at least windows media center on any PC or once you go to a new motherboard new system everything is lost?

HMm I bet even if you ever switch cable cards go with a different provider, quite service and hand the card back then all the protected content is boom lost. So the question is how much content gets protected in that way?

Does anyone know how FiOS handles cablecard? Pricing and sneaky issues? Verizon is a tricky place to get solid, upfront info from so if anyone has any real first hand experience....

Depending on the provider, some providers lock the recording and you won't be able to play other than the recorded HTPC, like myself. Other users report it does not lock and they're able to play from different PCs. This is based on my Ceton experience and I think this one will be the same and it really depending on your provider not the tuner.
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post #15 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

How locked down are recordings that you make with these things? I'm sure stuff like HBO but what about if you record stuff off of say ESPN or the like? Can you freely replay them using any software or at least windows media center on any PC or once you go to a new motherboard new system everything is lost?

HMm I bet even if you ever switch cable cards go with a different provider, quite service and hand the card back then all the protected content is boom lost. So the question is how much content gets protected in that way?

Does anyone know how FiOS handles cablecard? Pricing and sneaky issues? Verizon is a tricky place to get solid, upfront info from so if anyone has any real first hand experience....

I believe it comes down to your windows install. If you reformat you lost it all. So better to make an image as soon as everything is set up and working.
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post #16 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Depending on the provider, some providers lock the recording and you won't be able to play other than the recorded HTPC, like myself. Other users report it does not lock and they're able to play from different PCs. This is based on my Ceton experience and I think this one will be the same and it really depending on your provider not the tuner.

Thanks.

Does anyone have any experience with how FiOS in NJ does it?
I couldnt find much on their site other than some channels require no copy, single copy, or unlimited. No list was given.

Ironically, with a STB I can at least use the component out and feed into HD PVR.
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post #17 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

Thanks.

Does anyone have any experience with how FiOS in NJ does it?
I couldnt find much on their site other than some channels require no copy, single copy, or unlimited. No list was given.

Ironically, with a STB I can at least use the component out and feed into HD PVR.

You might have a better luck to find out your answer from the other Centon thread.
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post #18 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

I believe it comes down to your windows install. If you reformat you lost it all. So better to make an image as soon as everything is set up and working.

Any one of below will upset PlayReady and trigger Recorded TV/Live TV not playable until you reset the PlayReady.

CPU change
Clean Windows installation
Clear CMOS/BIOS (not sure???)
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post #19 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Any one of below will upset PlayReady and trigger Recorded TV/Live TV not playable until you reset the PlayReady.

CPU change
Clean Windows installation
Clear CMOS/BIOS (not sure???)

Hmm I just saw a couple people on a Broadband forum claim that Fios, as of June this year, had nothing protected on any channel. Seems hard to believe and maybe they haven't tried to copy recordings to a new computer yet but they seemed to claim they worked in anything.
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Hmm I just saw a couple people on a Broadband forum claim that Fios, as of June this year, had nothing protected on any channel. Seems hard to believe and maybe they haven't tried to copy recordings to a new computer yet but they seemed to claim they worked in anything.

In each recording if it is lock, it will mark "Copy Protected".

They all are copy free but just won't play in other PCs.
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post #21 of 479 Old 07-14-2011, 07:03 PM
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CableCARD tuners are the biggest disappointment to me since I discovered that there is no Easter Beagle. Granted, the magnitude of the horribleness of the experience is greatly influenced by your provider, but in my case, I would rather shave my head with a cheese grater than put another CableCARD tuner in place as part of my MCE setup. Here are the top 2 issues that I encounered:
1). SDV. Time Warner and other providers have implemented SDV in their signal delivery architecture. This presents them with the opportunity to provide us with a wonderful piece of technology (not the first noun that came to mind) called Tuning Adapters, which are required for OCUR CableCARD devices to work. The Cisco TAs that TWC provided locked up 3 times a week and just completely made life hell.
2). DRM. This is the major turd in the punchbowl. Period. If a program has a 5C flag of anything other than Copy Once, that recording is completely locked down. It can't be played on any other pc, commercial skipping applications cannot analyze them, they cannot be burned to dvd....they can only be played back, and only on that computer, in the same condition in which is was recorded. Of course, time warner flags everything except the locals as Copy Once, completely crippling any CableCARD implementation.
I've gone to a dual HDPVR setup using DVBLogic. This allows for completely DRM-free recordings, tuner sharing across my client PCs, and a very happy MCE setup, regardless of my provider.

Ray
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post #22 of 479 Old 07-15-2011, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

CableCARD tuners are the biggest disappointment to me since I discovered that there is no Easter Beagle. Granted, the magnitude of the horribleness of the experience is greatly influenced by your provider, but in my case, I would rather shave my head with a cheese grater than put another CableCARD tuner in place as part of my MCE setup. Here are the top 2 issues that I encounered:
1). SDV. Time Warner and other providers have implemented SDV in their signal delivery architecture. This presents them with the opportunity to provide us with a wonderful piece of technology (not the first noun that came to mind) called Tuning Adapters, which are required for OCUR CableCARD devices to work. The Cisco TAs that TWC provided locked up 3 times a week and just completely made life hell.
2). DRM. This is the major turd in the punchbowl. Period. If a program has a 5C flag of anything other than Copy Once, that recording is completely locked down. It can't be played on any other pc, commercial skipping applications cannot analyze them, they cannot be burned to dvd....they can only be played back, and only on that computer, in the same condition in which is was recorded. Of course, time warner flags everything except the locals as Copy Once, completely crippling any CableCARD implementation.
I've gone to a dual HDPVR setup using DVBLogic. This allows for completely DRM-free recordings, tuner sharing across my client PCs, and a very happy MCE setup, regardless of my provider.

Agree with the HD-PVR for DRM-free recordings but then you have to deal with the IR blasters for the channel changing within WMC which can sometimes be a hit or miss.

DRM does suck though, no doubt about that. If the shows were worth locking down that much then they would actually be worth watching.
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post #23 of 479 Old 07-15-2011, 04:50 AM
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Agree with the HD-PVR for DRM-free recordings but then you have to deal with the IR blasters for the channel changing within WMC which can sometimes be a hit or miss.

DRM does suck though, no doubt about that. If the shows were worth locking down that much then they would actually be worth watching.

Actually, one of the reasons I chose that board is because it has a firewire port. I'm using 4 gb of RAM, so no reason not to go with 32 bit Windows, so I use firewire for channel changing. Works like a champ! Never missed a channel change.

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post #24 of 479 Old 07-16-2011, 03:32 PM
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Hmm I just saw a couple people on a Broadband forum claim that Fios, as of June this year, had nothing protected on any channel. Seems hard to believe and maybe they haven't tried to copy recordings to a new computer yet but they seemed to claim they worked in anything.

Believe what you want, but it is true for NoVA/MD FIOS on all but a handful of premium channels (HBO etc) and one or two oddball specific shows (none I'll ever record).

Either the copy flag is set or its not, and you can tell right away from the tuner diagnostics for that channel. No extra "testing" is required.

I plan on testing out shows via linux with the prime once I get it (have a ceton in use in MD right now) and you can't get farther away from DRM than that.

Quote:


CableCARD tuners are the biggest disappointment to me since I discovered that there is no Easter Beagle. Granted, the magnitude of the horribleness of the experience is greatly influenced by your provider, but in my case, I would rather shave my head with a cheese grater than put another CableCARD tuner in place as part of my MCE setup.

Greatly is an understatement, since your two issues are 100% the fault of their equipment and settings, not the tuner itself.

The only issues I had were install issues, and I had worse problems with my tivo (still not quite fixed). Considering their own STB died on me (even while on a UPS, so it failed all by itself) with a far worse interface and 0 extra features, a one time headache was nothing to cut monthly fees and get more.


Anyways at $130 and a little computer magic help from me I think some relatives are going to be ditching their STBs too.

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post #25 of 479 Old 07-16-2011, 07:20 PM
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If you have a provider that does not implement 5C and SDV, then yeah, CableCARD is fine. TWC totally ruins it, though.

Ray
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post #26 of 479 Old 07-17-2011, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

CableCARD tuners are the biggest disappointment to me since I discovered that there is no Easter Beagle. Granted, the magnitude of the horribleness of the experience is greatly influenced by your provider, but in my case, I would rather shave my head with a cheese grater than put another CableCARD tuner in place as part of my MCE setup. Here are the top 2 issues that I encounered:
1). SDV. Time Warner and other providers have implemented SDV in their signal delivery architecture. This presents them with the opportunity to provide us with a wonderful piece of technology (not the first noun that came to mind) called Tuning Adapters, which are required for OCUR CableCARD devices to work. The Cisco TAs that TWC provided locked up 3 times a week and just completely made life hell.
2). DRM. This is the major turd in the punchbowl. Period. If a program has a 5C flag of anything other than Copy Once, that recording is completely locked down. It can't be played on any other pc, commercial skipping applications cannot analyze them, they cannot be burned to dvd....they can only be played back, and only on that computer, in the same condition in which is was recorded. Of course, time warner flags everything except the locals as Copy Once, completely crippling any CableCARD implementation.
I've gone to a dual HDPVR setup using DVBLogic. This allows for completely DRM-free recordings, tuner sharing across my client PCs, and a very happy MCE setup, regardless of my provider.

FIOS has none of those issues. They don't use SDV and, AFAIK, none of their channels are copy protected. I dropped HBO/Cinemax a few months back because they jacked up the rates and never bothered to tell me that I was also paying for Cinemax, which I never watched. As a result, I can't confirm if they have any of the HBO/Cinemax channels flagged. Verizon was charging me something like $23.99 per month for the premium channel. My cost savings in one year will just about pay for an InfiniTF4 at the current price. I find that I can still get the shows I watched on HBO through other means.

I still think the Ceton InfiniTV4 is the best deal for a cablecard tuner. The initial cost may be more, but when you consider the overall cost of the extra cablecards in the long run, it actually costs you less than either the HDHomeRun Prime or the Hauppauge if you decide to go with more than three tuners. It's always been my experience that you can never have enough tuners. My HTPC currently has two Ceton InfiniTV4's and two Hauppauge 2250's, for a total of 12 tuners. I haven't activated the 2nd Ceton yet, but I plan to do so before the end of the summer when the new fall lineups kick into gear.

Two tuners is fine if you're just using the PC as a remote tuner for a single TV and only record an occasional TV show. However, once you start using a DVR you tend to start recording more shows because you now have the opportunity to eliminate scheduling conflicts where you used to watch shows in real time. You'll find that you can also watch more shows in less time than before because you don't have to waste time sitting through commercial breaks. A typical 60-minute TV program has about 16-18 minutes of commercials.
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post #27 of 479 Old 07-17-2011, 07:36 PM
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Does anyone know the power requirement of the dcr2650? I am wondering if it can run it off of a usb port. I have a Asrock vision 3d and it has plenty of usb ports. i currently have 4 950q's attached so I am really interested in getting two dcr2650. I wonder how much comcrap will charge me for 2 cablecards? encryption really bites!
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post #28 of 479 Old 07-17-2011, 08:36 PM
 
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The only time I ran into FiOS having a flag set was during an NFL game...and it was set to copy never. I think it was set in error, for that means NO recording of the game...no DVRing at all.
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post #29 of 479 Old 07-18-2011, 10:04 AM
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At MissingRemote a user (Ganjagadget) found the link to the store http://store.hauppauge.com/Pro&#8203...4​&VisID but unfortunately the price is $149. So I made a post on their Facebook page regarding this, hopefully we'll get some info soon on the Pre-order!
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post #30 of 479 Old 07-18-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdb4133 View Post

At MissingRemote a user (Ganjagadget) found the link to the store http://store.hauppauge.com/Pro&#8203...4​&VisID but unfortunately the price is $149. So I made a post on their Facebook page regarding this, hopefully we'll get some info soon on the Pre-order!

is the link broken for everyone else?

EDIT-- nevermind i got it to work....pre ordered two....hoping this will be a cooler solution then my Ceton which runs incredibly hot
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