I cant believe how much trouble I have had with my norco 4224 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I still have never had all 6 backplanes working at the same time on my norco case. Almost every single time I move a drive or replace a drive either the whole backplane burns up or at least the drive bays I moved no longer work. The green lights are still on but it can read no data from that bay or the whole thing. Norco has sent me replacement backplanes that sometimes when I install them they burn up on the spot. I have replaced the PSU. I have tried different cords. The only correlation is me moving the drives. They say its static discharge. I do everything I can do to prevent it. I only use one hand. The case is turned off. My other hand is gripping the metal of the case to ground myself. I try to grip around the power cord in the back holding it and the case at the same time. What more can I do? They are getting angry at having to send me so many but after almost 6 months perhaps longer my warranty will soon be up and I am getting frustrated at never having a fully working case. I have even been sent an entirely new one only to have the same issues over and over.

What am I doing wrong? Why apparently only me?
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post #2 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Yet 3 more bays burned out while simply trying to get the damn thing booted to windows. Now only 3 fully working backplanes and one single bay to put my c: on. WTF. Its creating a discharge simply pulling out a drive and inserting one.
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post #3 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 03:23 PM
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Why don't you power down before installing or removing a drive? Maybe you shouldn't have too but if it keeps the system running it might be your best option (or at least until you figure out the problem).
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post #4 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post

Why don't you power down before installing or removing a drive? Maybe you shouldn't have too but if it keeps the system running it might be your best option (or at least until you figure out the problem).

reading is fundemental

lol, he specifically says that he powers off the case

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Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

I only use one hand. The case is turned off. My other hand is gripping the metal of the case to ground myself.

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post #5 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah I cant even use the hot swap feature. Every time I tried it fried a bay. I mean I get it you have to take precaution but I have been. This is seriously the most sensitive static prone equipment I have ever seen in my life. I have never had any issues with static prior to this. They ship it in a tube and its not even in an electrostatic bag so half the time I swear they are already broke by the time I get them. In fact one time a big chunk of plastic had broken off from shipping and they just shrugged when I told them. I am not trying to diss them and I get there is nothing cheaper on the market but man I cant even use my case.
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post #6 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 05:01 PM
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Sorry to hear you're still having so many problems w/ your Norco's backplains, but I seriously doubt static discharge has anything to do w/ your problems, the Norco back plains don't have any logic so there's no sensitive electronics that could potentially be damaged by static discharge and even if there was it would cause them to burn up as your's have, the logic would likely be the only that would stop working.

From what I remember when you first had these problems you had used different hardware at every part of the chain and can't think of anything that wasn't already talked about that might be causing this.

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post #7 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I am just going by what they have said is causing it. I cant believe it either. They say its my hard drives but I am using 3 different kinds and they behave exactly the same. I cant imagine installing anything incorrectly. I used 2 different psu's so that rules out any power issues. They are powered up as the green lights are on. I tried swapping cables to rule out that and it has no effect. They say they cost $100 each so its not like I can afford to buy more and its not like they cost that much for them either. I am just sick of this. I need to expand my array and now I can just boot into windows. I mean seriously what else can it be? They say they have never had this issue but it happens to me over and over. I wonder if there is a short in the case itself or something.
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post #8 of 56 Old 07-29-2011, 06:55 PM
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IIRC you've ran at least 2 MBs as well, and as it goes for shorts, I don't see how the backplains could short w/ the new style and you already ruled out a shorted HDD I was thinking might be the problem earlier on, but maybe there's a short from the MB to the case that completes a circuit thru the HHD(although the only path if any would be to ground/com).

BTW I finally stopped by Norco and exchange my 1 totally bad packplain but the one that had intermittent problems I kept and they've worked trouble free so far. They were actually out of stock for the RCP-X0XX backplains(SATA connectors) so they gave me one for a RCP-X2XX(SAS connector) and a SAS to SAS cable for free which was pretty cool of them.

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post #9 of 56 Old 07-30-2011, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcvictim View Post

reading is fundemental

lol, he specifically says that he powers off the case

Yeah, sorry. Maybe breaking into paragraphs would help us "reading challenged".
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post #10 of 56 Old 07-30-2011, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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And I even replaced the motherboard with one that has integrated graphics and had issues before and after. I am stumped but need to find a solution.
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post #11 of 56 Old 08-01-2011, 02:23 PM
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If you take out the backplanes, is there room to directly cable the drives? That's the only way I can see to improve the reliability of your setup. Obviously, this shouldn't be happening and a backplane is not a complex device, but taking it out of the equation should improve things.

- Mike
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post #12 of 56 Old 08-01-2011, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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well I can do that but not for 24 drives. I have even removed the backplanes from the case and tested outside the case with 4 drives resting on the top on some cardboard. Its like there is power but once the blue light goes out its out for good and then no more data transfers. I keep thinking its loose or something but it is damaged in some way where once whatever happens its done with. I just sent back 2 of them today but when the replacements get here I would like a permanent solution.
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post #13 of 56 Old 08-01-2011, 07:57 PM
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Forgive the horribly, stupidly, naive question: Do you have standoffs between the case and your motherboard?
Check each one, if you do - and I'm sure you do. Make sure nothing could be short circuiting. Your problem is not static!
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post #14 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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yup and like I said I even have changed motherboards and same issue.

Is it possible theres a short?

I doubted it was static as well. But thats what their engineer says. I am lost really. Never saw anything like this.

Its happened in 2 completely different cases as well. I wonder about some design flaw but then wouldnt it be more widespread? They say they have no issues with people returning backplanes.
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post #15 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 10:15 AM
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did you use the same power supply with both of the Norco cases?
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post #16 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought a very nice seasonic gold rated one and installed that. They have also said its my power supply lol but I have use 2 so...
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post #17 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

I bought a very nice seasonic gold rated one and installed that. They have also said its my power supply lol but I have use 2 so...

so the multiple backplanes burned out with 2 different cases and 2 different power supplies?


if so there is something fundamentally wrong, either you're doing something or there is something else at play like a bad power outlet
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post #18 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 01:48 PM
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Maybe you have a super power... AmpMan!
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post #19 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah I know its weird but I dont get what it can be. I have been building computers for like 15 years now. Its connected to a UPS as well. Its all high end stuff. I even moved so 2 different houses. 2 cases. 2 motherboards. 2 psus. 3 different kinds of drives. all end in same disaster.
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post #20 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 04:04 PM
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Have you tried a different controller card for your extra sata ports? Has Norco even told you what circuit on the board is getting burnt out all the time.
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post #21 of 56 Old 08-02-2011, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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DJwikiera see I have an areca card controlling 16 ports. Then I bought a 4 port syba card and 4 sata spots on my motherboard. So I can swap the cables in and out to test if its the motherboard or either of the 2 cards. To further complicate things the first syba card I bought was DOA but they replaced it after only 2 months *shakes fist* so I finally was able to rule that out as well. I can interchange any of the cables power or breakout cables and produce the same result of it just plain not working.

The one thing that is ticking me off is norco is NOT testing the stuff I return. I asked them 3 times now to see what exactly broke but they didnt any of the times. I am going to ask them again they should receive my package tomorrow. But its frustrating because they arent really helping me just blaming me and threatening not to honor the warranty. I get it that it costs them SOME money but its not a $100 part like they have it listed. I am also out money too because I have to pay for shipping and its about $10 each time because its in a big heavy tube. not cheap. I thought about another case but I dont get why this would happen to me and no one else. I have given them the model numbers of every single component. They just say its static and my fault. But how else can you rule that out? I ground myself every time before I begin work. I do it all one handed with my hand never leaving the metal on the case. I dont move my feet. I stand perfectly still with all the parts surrounding me so I dont have to move. Its as if just sliding the drive in and out is damaging them. They seem to work the first time its installed but then if you take a drive out and put it back in then it seems broken. I mean seriously thats all I am doing. I have had to back up data on single drives because my array is full and so I am off putting data on single drives to backup my arrray just in case something happens but I had to recently find another empty drive so I dont overwrite a backup and since so many bays were down I could only test 2 drives at a time. So I was swapping out drives in those last 2 bays when suddenly those stopped working as well. Always turned off (thus hot swap is useless) and installed correctly since I have so much experience taking this case apart. I even had to replace the power button which I hardly use but that already broke too. I mean that cant be my fault as well.
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post #22 of 56 Old 08-05-2011, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok So they tested the backplanes I sent back and Im not crazy they are burned out but they said the issue is either a bad hard drive but that cant be it because most of the drives have data and work fine. I think one may be bad so I am going to test them in another computer to be safe. The other thing is the voltage. This is my PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151088

I wonder if its how I have the backplanes wired? Should I try load balancing by using more cables? Isnt that a single rail psu? Would it matter? I am no expert with them.
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post #23 of 56 Old 08-05-2011, 02:57 PM
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It is a single rail PSU.
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post #24 of 56 Old 08-05-2011, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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so whether I have all the power connectors daisy chained or if I add more cables using the modular features then it is the same either way?
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post #25 of 56 Old 08-05-2011, 04:43 PM
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It shouldn't make a difference. Maybe one of the adapters your using is faulty. I'd use a couple more cables from the PS to test with out adapters if you can.
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post #26 of 56 Old 08-05-2011, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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well you see I have switched the cables out you know like swapping them around but maybe I can do it without splitters it will just get a bit more cluttered powering the fans etc.
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post #27 of 56 Old 08-05-2011, 05:26 PM
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ogormask, in case I missed it above, exactly how are the backplanes wired?

I'm in the middle of a similar build, with same power supply. But I haven't powered up the backplanes. Based on other postings I feel (and what I'm going to do) is one cable to 1-2-3-4-5; and a secondary cable to 1-2-3-4-5. There have been some posts about suspected connector issues with the Norco backplanes, thus requiring the redundancy. I know there were earlier postings about, nah the second molex is just for a back-up power supply; but the more I read, the more I think that the second molex needs to be powered off a second cable.

Just my thoughts.

Regards,
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post #28 of 56 Old 08-06-2011, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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you just need to power one of the connectors. For "neatness" I just use the same position on each backbplane then run a straight line down. I think the 2nd one is for a backup psu. you can power up either one though just not both at once.
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post #29 of 56 Old 08-09-2011, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

Ok So they tested the backplanes I sent back and Im not crazy they are burned out

How exactly do they burn out? If this was due to a power problem I think you would have seen discoloration on the traces.

I suspect that, instead of you being the issue, it is Norco. I had to have some backplanes replaced in my 4220 because they had cold solder joints on some of the connectors... The data connectors literally fell off into my hand one day.

Just curious.

-Mike
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post #30 of 56 Old 08-09-2011, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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well if you read through above basically even with the power off and carefully grounding myself (and one guy above says it cant possibly be static) simply removing a drive like swapping around drives within the bays when I power it back up suddenly those bays no longer work. One after another until all 4 will not transmit data. The green light is still on but no drives can be recognized. Its happened over and over with 2 motherboards. 2 different cases. 2 power supplies. 3 different kinds of drives. Its so frustrating. I have never had all 24 bays working at once. The first time I went to use the case within 5 minutes I was down to only 3 backplanes working and since I am still stuck at 3. Norco said it could be a bad drive but I have tested my drives and they work fine. I will retest them before I try them again when the new backplanes get here. He sent me 3 so I can get started but I am just plain scared and sick of it. Its a huge drain on my wallet paying for shipping.
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