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post #1351 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescale View Post
I'm not sure if you've been following along in the JRiver thread, but 6233638 kept pressing the issue, and Bob Katz finally did extensive testing on this. Most of it is well over my head, but all in all, JRiver does well for 24 bit output, but has some issues at 16 bit.

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/inde...4483#msg634483
I am banned from even reading their forum... but I've seen 62* effort. Thumb up for him for following the issue and pushing it. I had no doubt Bob will re-verify his findings and will confirm the issue, with 62* examples it was simply obvious to the extent even untrained ears could spot the erroneous of their solution @ 16 bit.

I still have doubts about Bob's 24 bit measurements and conclusions as the test conditions are not as revealing as was with 16 bit test. They are not quite comparable because the level of signal for testing @ 24 bit was 48 dB higher than @ 16bit - it sound from the description he was using padding at LSB for the test signal of 24 bit version compared to the 16 bit version - so the test signal itself is 48 dB higher resolution. What was low level at 16 bits is now quite high level at 24 bits. He should either attenuate 48dB more, or pad at High Significant Byte so the numerical values are the same for both tests and so the dither distortion is revealed equally. With higher level signal he just got higher order harmonics that are spread over the spectrum (his signal is not exact division of the sampling frequency, so harmonics / intermodulations have no stable frequency). This is probably what he had seen as 'a little bit higher noise floor than that of an ideal (iZotope TPDF) dither', the floor could be a bit lower, but the distortion spikes are high in number but low in amplitude. But those are not really noise. It is like the white noise and sweep-tone. Both measure (FFT) identically, but sweep-tone sounds quite differently, and what he sees on FFT when distortion is spread is not the true level of the distortion - as it is spread over several FFT bins it looks like it have less energy than it really is. So, the total sum of the 'slight distortion' mentioned by Bob is probably not -180dBFS, but something higher (up to around -150 dBFS). To know exactly it is needed to measure it at volumes close to the lowest bits of 24 bit signal (as Bruno suggested the signal of less than LSB). I really doubt they have different dither implementation for 24 and 16 bits as 62* also doubts, and devs were explicitly confirming this doubt.

Anyway it happened what happened and Bob confirmed the existence of the issue - big thank to him for his incredible effort in doing essentially JRiver devs work. As he is the only idol they are listening to (not even believing their own ears), I hope it will be enough reason to finally move things in the right direction.
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post #1352 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by KaliKid2013 View Post
People also seemed unhappy that they had to pay for an upgrade to a newer version (although at a discounted rate), after already paying once.
This has always perplexed me. As an analogy - I pay someone to mow my lawn. It grows some more and I call the guy to come back. He then has the gall to tell me that I will have to pay for his time to come out again!

I guess some people seem to think that once they buy a software program they're entitled to any future upgrades for free into perpetuity. Maybe the developers can tell their family they ate once so they never need to eat again.
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post #1353 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 08:02 AM
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I have a question for the guys using JRiver or any other media player for that matter...

When I was using the trial for Amarra, they stated that for best listening results and sound quality, it is preferred that one uses a "dedicated computer" for music listening. They state it would be preferred not to use the Mac / PC for mail, web browsing, or anything not related to strictly playing music.

In the settings, they have a window you can open that you can use to disable a bunch of features, which they recommend for the best listening experience.

They recommend using "disable all", but then there are certain things they have listed to disable individually.

The things they suggest you disable are;

Disable All
Disable Termination Daemon
Disable Sleep Mode
Disable Hibernate
Disable Mission Control
Disable Time Machine
Disable Spotlight
Disable Launch Control
Disable Dashboard
Disable Notification Center
Disable NapApp
Remove Finder Quit Command

I tried a few various players, and no others suggested using a dedicated Mac / PC, nor did they suggest disabling any of the features on your computer. I am not using Amarra, I am using JRiver, but I was wondering if any of you guys had heard of or have disabled certain programs or utilities on your computer to achieve better sound quality.

I don't see where it would make much of a difference, but I know doing a bunch of little things can sometimes add up to making a difference.

Thanks for your input.

B&W CM10 fronts-B&W CM10 rears-CM2 Center-ASWCM12 sub---Rotel RSP-1572 pre-amp-Rotel RMB-1585 amp---Oppo BDP-105 Blu-ray---SurgeX QX515---Samsung UN60H7150---AppleTV---Acoustimac DMD-422 acoustic panels 48"X24"X2" (11) w/ Owens Corning 703.
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post #1354 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 09:04 AM
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Some people think that disabling processes will somehow improve the audio quality. We don't agree.


It is always possible to have interference from something else on the computer, but it is not normal and it is usually immediately obvious.


We don't recommend making changes to your OS.


Any computer that has trouble playing music and reading email is broken.
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Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center

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post #1355 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriver View Post
Some people think that disabling processes will somehow improve the audio quality. We don't agree.


It is always possible to have interference from something else on the computer, but it is not normal and it is usually immediately obvious.


We don't recommend making changes to your OS.


Any computer that has trouble playing music and reading email is broken.

Hi,

Thanks for your prompt reply, I was thinking the same, but just figured I would ask.

Love your player, dl it yesterday and plan to purchase it when the trial is up.

I don't know if you saw my post from yesterday, but I was at the NY Audio Show in Brooklyn, NY yesterday and the majority of the people were using JRiver. When I asked them about it, they all raved about it, prompting me to try it.

So that is pretty impressive when some of the best speaker companies in the world are using for demos, and are happy with the audio player you developed.

Thanks again!

B&W CM10 fronts-B&W CM10 rears-CM2 Center-ASWCM12 sub---Rotel RSP-1572 pre-amp-Rotel RMB-1585 amp---Oppo BDP-105 Blu-ray---SurgeX QX515---Samsung UN60H7150---AppleTV---Acoustimac DMD-422 acoustic panels 48"X24"X2" (11) w/ Owens Corning 703.

Last edited by KaliKid2013; 09-28-2014 at 09:19 AM.
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post #1356 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 09:34 AM
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Thanks very much.

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post #1357 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriver View Post
Any computer that has trouble playing music and reading email is broken.
Totally agree. I could extend this list...
  • Any device pretending to play media that has trouble seamlessly/gaplessly pass through the chapter or track transition is broken.
  • Any room EQ solution that skips equalizing front speakers or not equalizing low frequencies and subwoofers is broken.
  • ... here could be many more things that are broken more often that I would like to see it
  • Any digital signal processing chain that has trouble dithering properly to output resolution is... I guess you know what I mean.
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post #1358 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 10:23 AM
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Here's a question that hopefully you guys can help me with. So far I'm loving Jriver... Purchased it a few days ago and it's well worth every penny.

I have my desktop that's running Jriver hooked up directly to my basement TV. Everything is good there. I would like to be able to steam my media (music and movies) to my TV upstairs. I have a PS3 hooked up to that TV.

Last night I was able to steam a movie to that TV through the PS3. Playback was perfect, though audio only came in two channel. However, the biggest problem was that I couldn't fast forward. Actually, I could, but only at 1.5x speed. Any higher speed failed to move the video forward.

I did a Google search on this issue, and it seems linked to the fact that the PS3 is a dlna device. Is there some sort of work around for this?

Thanks again for all the help!
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post #1359 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 01:11 PM
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It may depend on the format. Our DLNA server may be able to convert.


Have you been here?
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/PS3

Jim Hillegass / JRiver Media Center

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post #1360 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriver View Post
Thanks very much.
Your welcome, thank YOU.

Quick question, some album art is not loading.
Would you know why? i searched your wiki for "cd art", "cd art not loading", "album art" and "album art not loading".

No results were retuned.

Any idea what it might be? Screen shot below.

Thanks again!
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B&W CM10 fronts-B&W CM10 rears-CM2 Center-ASWCM12 sub---Rotel RSP-1572 pre-amp-Rotel RMB-1585 amp---Oppo BDP-105 Blu-ray---SurgeX QX515---Samsung UN60H7150---AppleTV---Acoustimac DMD-422 acoustic panels 48"X24"X2" (11) w/ Owens Corning 703.
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post #1361 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 03:44 PM
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Try the advanced search and search for "cover art". Also check the wiki.


Right click on one for the cover art options.


Check the tags for the Album Artist and Album.

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post #1362 of 1362 Old 09-28-2014, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jriver View Post
Try the advanced search and search for "cover art". Also check the wiki.


Right click on one for the cover art options.


Check the tags for the Album Artist and Album.
Right clicking did it.
I should have thought of that...duh....

Thanks for your quick reply and solution!!!

B&W CM10 fronts-B&W CM10 rears-CM2 Center-ASWCM12 sub---Rotel RSP-1572 pre-amp-Rotel RMB-1585 amp---Oppo BDP-105 Blu-ray---SurgeX QX515---Samsung UN60H7150---AppleTV---Acoustimac DMD-422 acoustic panels 48"X24"X2" (11) w/ Owens Corning 703.
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