Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide - Page 107 - AVS Forum
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post #3181 of 3209 Old 09-16-2014, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
If you are using a 7.1 capable receiver, but only happen to have a 5.1 speaker setup then it should be able to downmix 7.1 PCM to 5.1 speakers. However the EQ might be screwy as your software is preforming its EQ under the assumption that there are 8 channels when there are really only 6 being output. You would likely get better results by telling the software to downmix to 5.1 before EQ is applied.

If your receiver is only 5.1 capable and you are feeding it 7.1 then it will just discard the extra 2 channels worth of audio information. So, again, you would be better off having the software downmix to 5.1 before EQ is applied and certainly before the audio is output.

Both scenarios assume that you are passing the audio from the PC to the receiver over HDMI. Normally, the PC and receiver should be able to sort this out on their own during the HDMI handshake, at which point the receiver will tell the PC that it can only handle 5.1 audio. Obviously, if you are using analog connections then you would also want to do the downmixing in the software as you could then keep the signal in the analog domain after the initial DAC, so as to avoid multiple conversions.
Thanks a lot for your reply. In my case, I have only a 5.1 capable receiver. I guess I was under the mistaken assumption that the receiver would handle 7.1 bitstreamed audio by performing a downmix internally to 5.1. I wasn't aware that the receiver would simply discard the extra channel data.

And yes, I do have everything hooked up via HDMI from my HTPC to my receiver. So if I want to perform the downmixing using LAV Audio in MPC-HC, what options should I use? My windows driver for my HDMI output (audio) is already setup as a 5.1 configuration. In LAV Audio...I believe Matrix Method (or some similar option) is set to None.
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post #3182 of 3209 Old 09-16-2014, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
If your receiver is only 5.1 capable and you are feeding it 7.1 then it will just discard the extra 2 channels worth of audio information. So, again, you would be better off having the software downmix to 5.1 before EQ is applied and certainly before the audio is output.
Actually, this turned out to be untrue for my Yamaha RX-V375 receiver. I think what you stated may be accurate for older 5.1 receivers, but I believe that all the newer 5.1 receivers are aware the the input audio stream can be 7.1. I tested with a DTS-HD-MA 7.1 channel test clip, bitstreamed to my receiver and it played back both the surround and back speaker content on the 5.1 surround speakers correctly, indicating that the receiver is downmixing 7.1 to 5.1

I also tested with LAV Filter set to do the mixing and matrix type to "None", and that also seemed to perform the downmix to 5.1 correctly and outputs the matching LPCM output to my receiver.

Now I just gotta figure out why my LAV audio mix is ~ 6dB lower in volume than what my receiver outputs when I bitstream content to it. Most likely it is due to the default levels used for each channel in the mixing process by LAV filters.
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post #3183 of 3209 Old 09-17-2014, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Actually, this turned out to be untrue for my Yamaha RX-V375 receiver. I think what you stated may be accurate for older 5.1 receivers, but I believe that all the newer 5.1 receivers are aware the the input audio stream can be 7.1. I tested with a DTS-HD-MA 7.1 channel test clip, bitstreamed to my receiver and it played back both the surround and back speaker content on the 5.1 surround speakers correctly, indicating that the receiver is downmixing 7.1 to 5.1

I also tested with LAV Filter set to do the mixing and matrix type to "None", and that also seemed to perform the downmix to 5.1 correctly and outputs the matching LPCM output to my receiver.

Now I just gotta figure out why my LAV audio mix is ~ 6dB lower in volume than what my receiver outputs when I bitstream content to it. Most likely it is due to the default levels used for each channel in the mixing process by LAV filters.
Just to verify, when you say you bitstreamed the audio to your receiver, you mean that the receiver was doing the decoding, correct? If that is the case then your receiver is capable of pulling the 5.1 core out from the mix, which would work as you stated. However, I'm not so sure that the receiver would know what to do with the extra 2 channels of PCM if you have the PC doing the decoding and outputting 7.1. By the time the receiver gets it, it really has no way of knowing if those two extra channels are surround back audio, front height audio, top middle audio, etc. As I mentioned above, when using HDMI, the player would usually know the capabilities of the receiver. So, even if the player is doing the decoding it will downmix to the correct number of channels automatically. However, since the original question was with regards to doing the decoding in a PC (which offers customization that your typical CE appliance does not have), it is possible that it could be set to ignore the capabilities of the receiver and output 7.1 anyway. Again, when using analog connections, the player has no way of knowing the capabilities of the receiver, so the audio would be output based purely on what settings you have in the player and the number of channels present in the actual content. Naturally, 5.1 receivers don't typically have analog inputs for more than 5.1 channels anyway, so you would have more output cables than you have inputs and the audio in the extra channels would clearly be lost.
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post #3184 of 3209 Old 09-17-2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
Just to verify, when you say you bitstreamed the audio to your receiver, you mean that the receiver was doing the decoding, correct? If that is the case then your receiver is capable of pulling the 5.1 core out from the mix, which would work as you stated.
Yes, that is what I meant. However, I am not clear if it is actually pulling a 5.1 core? It definitely plays the lossless audio stream (I can tell from the improved dynamic range, and "lower" volume level that one experiences when playing back lossless audio tracks from movies), but as I mentioned, the test clip containst 7.1 audio in DTS-HD-MA where each of the 7.1 channel has pink noise sent to it sequentially. If the receiver was simply pulling 5.1 from this audio stream, wouldn't it play no audio on my Surround speakers when the video clip is playing audio for the Back Left and Back Right channels? In my case, if the receiver decodes the 7.1 stream, it still plays the Back Left and Back Right audio stream on my Surround speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
As I mentioned above, when using HDMI, the player would usually know the capabilities of the receiver. So, even if the player is doing the decoding it will downmix to the correct number of channels automatically. However, since the original question was with regards to doing the decoding in a PC (which offers customization that your typical CE appliance does not have), it is possible that it could be set to ignore the capabilities of the receiver and output 7.1 anyway. Again, when using analog connections, the player has no way of knowing the capabilities of the receiver, so the audio would be output based purely on what settings you have in the player and the number of channels present in the actual content. Naturally, 5.1 receivers don't typically have analog inputs for more than 5.1 channels anyway, so you would have more output cables than you have inputs and the audio in the extra channels would clearly be lost.
After some more testing, it appears that I was mistaken. Both Windows mixer or LAV Filters (depending on which one I selected to do my audio mixing) were downmixing the 7.1 audio stream during the software decoding and outputting it as 5.1 PCM to my receiver via HDMI. As a result, the Yamaha handles it fine and just acts as a "dumb" receiver, passing through the 5.1 decoded audio stream.

All that being said, I have found subtle differences between how my Yamaha Receiver, Windows Mixer and LAV Filters decodes the 7.1 audio stream to 5.1 and at the moment, I'm not sure which is the "right" way. I've posted more information on this in a separate thread here: Correct output when 7.1 audio is downmixed to 5.1 speaker setup?

Would certainly appreciate any input if you have any insight on this. Cheers.
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post #3185 of 3209 Old 09-19-2014, 01:18 AM
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What's the latest best version of catalyst for working with MadVR 87.1?

Currently using 13.12 and it works ok - have a few issues I am hoping go away with a newer version.
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post #3186 of 3209 Old 09-19-2014, 01:19 AM
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What's the latest best version of catalyst for working with MadVR 87.1?

Currently using 13.12 and it works ok - have a few issues I am hoping go away with a newer version.
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post #3187 of 3209 Old 09-19-2014, 01:56 PM
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newer version work all some people tested 14.xx version with 13.12 and 13.12 was faster in nnedi3. the newest version works fine for me.
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post #3188 of 3209 Old 09-19-2014, 04:53 PM
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I can't get any subtitles to work, I'm using madVR and xy subfilter. Can someone help me please?
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post #3189 of 3209 Old 09-19-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
I can't get any subtitles to work, I'm using madVR and xy subfilter. Can someone help me please?
You don't mention the video player you are using - but subs are not currently a madVR thing (hopefully soon repositioning support). In mpchc you have to disable the internal sub support. make sure xyfilter is showing up in the list of filters via right click "filters".
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post #3190 of 3209 Old 09-19-2014, 05:23 PM
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I figured it out - I had installed the folder in downloads, and then deleted it. I just had to move it to the MPC file and install it, and not delete it and it worked. Thanks.
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post #3191 of 3209 Old 09-26-2014, 08:06 AM
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Hi - Justa quick question . Is there any difference in video quality beetween Nvidia cuvid for decoding and choosing ''None'' (i.e CPU) ? If so, what should I use? I have a pretty fast GPU.
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post #3192 of 3209 Old 09-26-2014, 11:12 AM
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Hi - Justa quick question . Is there any difference in video quality beetween Nvidia cuvid for decoding and choosing ''None'' (i.e CPU) ? If so, what should I use? I have a pretty fast GPU.
no there is not.
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post #3193 of 3209 Old 09-28-2014, 06:52 AM
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MINDBOMB: You used to have a "Last Edited" date/time at the end of the guide. It was useful to monitor once a month with a website watching program. Are you still planning to update the guide?
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post #3194 of 3209 Old 09-28-2014, 10:00 AM
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do you think he needs to update anything yet?
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post #3195 of 3209 Old 09-28-2014, 03:10 PM
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Guys, is there a way to have MPC-HC retain its window position upon closing, when it gets closed by another application? I use a program called livestreamer to watch live streams but when the stream ends, it closes MPC-HC and when opening it again MPC-HC reverts back to its default window position.
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post #3196 of 3209 Old 09-28-2014, 03:40 PM
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Guys, is there a way to have MPC-HC retain its window position upon closing, when it gets closed by another application? I use a program called livestreamer to watch live streams but when the stream ends, it closes MPC-HC and when opening it again MPC-HC reverts back to its default window position.
never tried it but this should work

http://abload.de/img/mpchczek2u.png
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post #3197 of 3209 Old 09-29-2014, 02:56 PM
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never tried it but this should work

http://abload.de/img/mpchczek2u.png
Yeah that is already checked and it still does it.
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post #3198 of 3209 Old 10-01-2014, 09:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Actually, this turned out to be untrue for my Yamaha RX-V375 receiver. I think what you stated may be accurate for older 5.1 receivers, but I believe that all the newer 5.1 receivers are aware the the input audio stream can be 7.1. I tested with a DTS-HD-MA 7.1 channel test clip, bitstreamed to my receiver and it played back both the surround and back speaker content on the 5.1 surround speakers correctly, indicating that the receiver is downmixing 7.1 to 5.1

I also tested with LAV Filter set to do the mixing and matrix type to "None", and that also seemed to perform the downmix to 5.1 correctly and outputs the matching LPCM output to my receiver.

Now I just gotta figure out why my LAV audio mix is ~ 6dB lower in volume than what my receiver outputs when I bitstream content to it. Most likely it is due to the default levels used for each channel in the mixing process by LAV filters.
I have a similar problem with LAV filter when playing DTS-HD MA 7.1 audio. It is always lower than any other 5.1 mix and when I enable mixing and select output to 5.1 from LAV settings, the volume is high and good again. With the original 7.1 output, it says Output: 24bit Integer but when I enable downmixing to 5.1, it changes to 32bit Float.
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post #3199 of 3209 Old 10-04-2014, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Auntisocial View Post
MINDBOMB: You used to have a "Last Edited" date/time at the end of the guide. It was useful to monitor once a month with a website watching program. Are you still planning to update the guide?
I'll try to change if needed, but I think it's fine as it is for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaelromany View Post
I have a similar problem with LAV filter when playing DTS-HD MA 7.1 audio. It is always lower than any other 5.1 mix and when I enable mixing and select output to 5.1 from LAV settings, the volume is high and good again. With the original 7.1 output, it says Output: 24bit Integer but when I enable downmixing to 5.1, it changes to 32bit Float.
when you combine channels together, you have to lower the volume to prevent clipping. You can use clipping protection rather than normalization in lav audio to lessen this, but I'd rather have normalization. All processing of this type is better done in floating point.
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post #3200 of 3209 Old 10-04-2014, 08:59 PM
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I'll try to change if needed, but I think it's fine as it is for now.
LAVfilter added HEVC DXVA decoding in 0.63 you may add some words about it. it's using the GPU not a asic for decoding so it's bad for madVR usage and is not super fast like DXVA for h264 a i7 is usually a lot faster with 64 bit.
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post #3201 of 3209 Old 10-12-2014, 12:43 PM
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Last edited by MlNDBOMB...
It's back! Thanks
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post #3202 of 3209 Old 10-18-2014, 06:30 PM
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Sometimes MakeMKV doesn't set the 'forced' flag properly. Open MKVmerge (part of the MKVtoolnix programme) from there open Header Editor (File/Header Editor) load the file, identify the correct subtitle stream, change/add 'forced' flag and save.
Just bumping this because it took me forever to find... thanks again (been doing some encodes and needed your instructions here for forced subs).

Theater set-up:  

AVR:  Pioneer VSX-820

Speakers:  5.1 consists of four NHT Classic Two bookshelf and an NHT TwoC center

Sub:  PSA-XV15

HTPC - ridiculously over-the-top, home-built gaming PC that I tinker with daily!

OTA antenna:  Winegard HD7698P

HDTV:  Sharp LC-60SQ15U

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post #3203 of 3209 Old 10-22-2014, 09:49 PM
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Will I lose some sound quality of dts-hd which is decoded by lav unless I use reclock?
btw, my capable receiver is connected into the gpu through hdmi!
Another thing, can I get windows mixer control back instead of sticking to receiver's remote control?
Thanks a lot!
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post #3204 of 3209 Old 10-23-2014, 12:13 AM
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use MPC-BE with wasapi.
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post #3205 of 3209 Old 10-23-2014, 02:35 PM
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I use it but how about the wasapi, are we talking about the built in support or do I need to configure it somehow?
Also, please don't forget the volume control question if there's any hope for it!
Thanks again!
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post #3206 of 3209 Old 10-24-2014, 06:38 AM
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it is called MPC audio renderer.

you have to disable bitstreaming to use volume settings not sure if this is what you understandt under windows mixer but you can change the volume with the mouse reel. to decode DTS HD you need a version of TMT and the dtsdecoerdll.dll from this problem see the guide.

there is little to no configuration you find all possible configurations under properties.

make sure you set the lav mixer to the right channel when less than 7.1 is used.
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post #3207 of 3209 Old 10-25-2014, 04:30 PM
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I know what DTS-HD needs to work but I was asking about the best settings in the "mixing" tab while bitstreaming to 5.1 HTIB system!
Also, is it possible to get back the windows mixer control without disabling bitstreaming?!
I'd really appreciate you or anyone's help!

Last edited by salam2009; 10-26-2014 at 05:33 AM.
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post #3208 of 3209 Old 10-26-2014, 11:04 AM
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with bitstreaming you send the non decoded audio stream to your AVR.

you can't change the volume of none decoded audio stream you need to decode it. you AVR can change the volume because it is decoding the audio stream. same for mixing mixing is no issue for AVR as long as bitstreaming is used.

so the short answer is NO.
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post #3209 of 3209 Old 10-26-2014, 03:10 PM
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So I don't need to configure anything in that case.
Thanks for the info buddy!
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