Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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for decoding, lav audio and madflac both decode and output flac perfectly, so it doesnt matter which one you use.

if you want madflac, you just move it up above lav audio. There are up/down buttons on the side under the prefer/block/set merit options.
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post #62 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 02:34 PM
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Followed the steps exactly and now I can't play .m4v files through Media Browser on my W7MC machine.

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post #63 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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hmm, thats strange.

well, go into mpc hc, options, internal filters, and recheck mp4/mov, and then see what happens.
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post #64 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 03:09 PM
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Yep...tried that and no joy.

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post #65 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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just to be clear, do they work if you drag them into just plain mpc hc?

other things to try, double click lav audio, uncheck AAC or AC3 (whichever one the video has) under formats, or double click lav video and uncheck H264 under formats.

That way, we can narrow down the problem component.
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post #66 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

just to be clear, do they work if you drag them into just plain mpc hc?

other things to try, double click lav audio, uncheck AAC or AC3 (whichever one the video has) under formats, or double click lav video and uncheck H264 under formats.

That way, we can narrow down the problem component.

They work fine in the MPC player, which I thought was strange. I'll try your suggestions tonight when my son goes to bed. Can't interrupt his Max and Ruby time.

Maybe we can get this figured out in case someone else runs into this problem.

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post #67 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 06:02 PM
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OK, tried both suggestions and still no luck. But during testing I noticed in Media Browser that m4v files with an aac audio track seem to work fine but files with a Dolby Digital audio track do not.

Of course, when I play either type of file in the standalone player they work fine.

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post #68 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 06:19 PM
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Tinker. Tinker.

Sorry. Couldn't resist again since I was scolded that tinkering was largely non-applicable.


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post #69 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Tinker. Tinker.

Sorry. Couldn't resist again since I was scolded that tinkering was largely non-applicable.

Yep, I'm tinkering.

Just trying to improve my m4v performance. With Shark's codecs it takes a good minute after selecting an m4v movie with an ac3 audio track before it starts playing. Drives the wife crazy.

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post #70 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToddUGA View Post

OK, tried both suggestions and still no luck. But during testing I noticed in Media Browser that m4v files with an aac audio track seem to work fine but files with a Dolby Digital audio track do not.

Of course, when I play either type of file in the standalone player they work fine.

hmm, try uninstalling the lav filters, and seeing it plays fine without them.

I think it might be something specific to them that isnt jiving well with mediabrowser.
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post #71 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

hmm, try uninstalling the lav filters, and seeing it plays fine without them.

I think it might be something specific to them that isnt jiving well with mediabrowser.

Uninstalled the lav filters and still no go.

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post #72 of 3186 Old 09-02-2011, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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so i guess it is something specific to madvr then.

go to options, output, and set the renderer back to evr cp.

and i guess you can reinstall lav filters.
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post #73 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 06:44 AM
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I have a NVidia 440 and use LAV Cuvid.

You suggest putting the WMVideo Decoder DMO external filter above the LAV video decoder. My understanding is that WMVideo Decoder DMO only decodes VC-1 while LAV Video does not. Is it true that VC-1 is all WMVideo Decoder DMO decodes.

Does it matter to put WMVideo Decoder DMO above LAV Video in external filters for people with Nvidia card who can use LAV cuvid?
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post #74 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 06:47 AM
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Can anyone post before and after comparison shots like others have done on AVS?

I know myself and likely others are curious what improvements (if any) you are noticing after all this tweaking.


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post #75 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 06:50 AM
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FYI this was GreenEyez comparison located here:

Quote:


Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

Surprise surprise, if anybody can tell the difference between these screens, i`m going to eat my shoes .
Tested on my GTX260, with the latest Nvidia drivers and latest versions of the software. EVR for Media Player Classic is actually the default EVR CP, was to lazy to add a CP to the filename .

Here`s a RAR archive containing all the screencaps with proper filenames, should be easier to download this way.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6HSOTSRG


MPC-HC MPC Decoder + EVR


MPC-HC LAV CUVID Decoder + EVR


MPC-HC LAV CUDIV Decoder + MadVR


WMP LAV CUVID Decoder + EVR



MPC-HC MPC Decoder + EVR


MPC-HC LAV CUVID Decoder + EVR


MPC-HC LAV CUDIV Decoder + MadVR


WMP LAV CUVID Decoder + EVR



MPC-HC MPC Decoder + EVR


MPC-HC LAV CUVID Decoder + EVR


MPC-HC LAV CUDIV Decoder + MadVR


WMP LAV CUVID Decoder + EVR



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post #76 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 06:54 AM - Thread Starter
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@postmodern
i believe it does just decode vc-1 and different type of windows media video.

i suppose you can substitute lav cuvid for wmvideo decoder dmo on certain computers with nvidia graphics cards, and you would then benefit from using the hardware decoder and hardware deinterlacer. I would uncheck H264 and Mpeg 4 ASP in lav cuvid though, as there is a lack of 10 bit h264 support, and I hear mpeg 4 asp hardware decoding is just bad in general. Ofc, if you don't need hi10p, you can even use lav cuvid for h264.

I didnt mention lav cuvid, as I tried to keep the guide as general as possible with regards to what hardware it applies to.
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post #77 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 06:55 AM
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Here is the MPC-HC MPC Decoder + EVR on the left and the MPC-HC LAV CUDIV Decoder + MadVR on the right.

I have not changed, scaled or doctored these in any way. This is a comparison of the difference based on GreenEyez screenshots.



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post #78 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 07:24 AM
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Quote:


FYI this was GreenEyez comparison located here:

Yeah, there shouldn't be any difference (at least not much of one) between the static pq of renderers. You might be able to see a difference in scenes with gradual color changes, since madvr does better with contouring.

But where madvr truly shines is in motion. It is so much smoother than any other renderer. Pans are smooth and appear to keep their resolution better. And madvr really doesn't require any more tinkering than evr-sync, so even if there isn't a big difference (which imo there is) it doesn't make the htpc much harder to deal with.

Also, why do you insist on disparaging madvr? Some people want the highest possible quality, and madvr gives as close as possible to perfect quality on an htpc. It seems as if you have merely been sarcastic and unhelpful in this thread, a thread which is attempting to provide a real service to some people.
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post #79 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 07:26 AM
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I have not changed, scaled or doctored these in any way.

You have scaled them, because they aren't 1080p. Not that it should make a difference comparing the two.
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post #80 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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well, there aren't really any downsides to using madvr, so I don't see why anyone wouldn't consider using it when they are using mpc hc.

nand's guide ( http://haruhichan.com/wpblog/?p=205) and ranpha's guide ( http://imouto.my/configuring-potplay...ware-decoding/) also mention madvr, so it isn't really a radical notion to include them in a directshow media player setup guide.
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post #81 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 08:39 AM
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Sure there are downsides.

Why add a discrete video card, extra cost, extra heat, and extra noise if there is little or possibly even no gain?

I am not disparaging but trying to find the truth here.

As mentioned please post some comparison shots to prove it is better and I will go away. Otherwise people should be offered the truth and not just told blindly that something is better because you say so.


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post #82 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 09:02 AM
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As mentioned please post some comparison shots to prove it is better and I will go away. Otherwise people should be offered the truth and not just told blindly that something is better because you say so.

And I said that it has to be seen in motion. And posting videos is pointless since playback of videos is dependent on the renderer .

I agree people should be offered the truth. Like no card but nvidia can do proper 23.976, and that only with a custom resolution (at least on my system). Yet you continue to question whether perfect 24p even exists:

Quote:


"perfect 24p" (if that even exists)

Well, it does exist, it is just very hard to get it on an htpc. Madvr+custom resolution with nvidia is the only way I have gotten it to work. And I definitely CAN post screenshots of that (though it would require lots of work on my part...swapping out cards/processors/os etc...so please believe me ).

In any case, read the madvr thread over at doom9, it is far more instructive on the subtleties of pq.

Quote:


Why add a discrete video card, extra cost, extra heat, and extra noise if there is little or possibly even no gain?

Why do htpc at all? A streamer can do just as well if not better for less than a pc. I could argue that the extra functionality of an htpc over a streamer is little or possibly no gain. We are in the htpc section so I won't argue it.

Also, out of curiosity, have you tried madvr? I would like your thoughts on the smoothness that I claim madvr brings.
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post #83 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 09:14 AM
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Of course I have tried it.

Didn't notice much difference in pq or smoothness. For full disclosure this was on my 32info inch testing rig. Then again I might not be as picky as others.

I am really not trying to be a smartass or trouble. I genuinely want to see the difference.

I thinks others probably want to see it as well.


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post #84 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sound dropouts View Post

You have scaled them, because they aren't 1080p. Not that it should make a difference comparing the two.

I meant scaled them in photoshop.


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post #85 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 09:52 AM
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Quote:


Didn't notice much difference in pq or smoothness. For full disclosure this was on my 32info inch testing rig.

My biggest screen is 32 inches I wish I had the money for a bigger screen...its kind of small even in my small apartment.
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post #86 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 10:30 AM
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@assassin while I agree there is not that amazing of a difference picture quality wise the smoothness is the main reason for using it.

For some reason, from time to time the composition rate with Aero on changes from the standard 60hz to 30hz on my setup, and that causes massively noticeable stuttering/non-smoothness when watching video with EVR. It's something that happens from time to time and I haven't been able to figure out what. (maybe it's a bug with some application or driver) I use an XFX HD 5830 with latest 11.8 drivers on Win7 64-bit.

By using MadVR + full screen exclusive mode the problems go away. I could obviously try to correct this by disabling Aero and then using EVR + vsync but even this method doesn't provide the smoothness that MadVR does, plus by disabling Aero this makes internet flash streaming videos tear and that is a big no no for me.


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post #87 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Why add a discrete video card, extra cost, extra heat, and extra noise if there is little or possibly even no gain?

You don't have to use a discrete video card. I have personally used madvr with a 9400m and a radeon 6310 (though I don't recommend my guide for zacate - it has too little cpu power for anything over 720p, you have to use hardware acceleration), and there are reports of it working on an intel hd3000.

where it gets complicated is when you start doing hardware decoding, adaptive hardware deinterlacing with frame doubling, and madvr. Then its time to step up to like a gt 440 with gddr5.
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post #88 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MlNDBOMB View Post

You don't have to use a discrete video card. I have personally used madvr with a 9400m and a radeon 6310 (though I don't recommend my guide for zacate - it has too little cpu power for anything over 720p, you have to use hardware acceleration), and there are reports of it working on an intel hd3000.

where it gets complicated is when you start doing hardware decoding, adaptive hardware deinterlacing with frame doubling, and madvr. Then its time to step up to like a gt 440 with gddr5.

Now we are getting somewhere. If you can do this with integrated then I am much more interested.

As far as smoothness I have never had any problems or even really noticed others ever complaining about this issue.


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post #89 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 11:55 AM
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Personally, I made the effort to go with MPC-HC/MadVR just recently specifically for MadVR's automatic refresh rate switching rather than any quality improvements. It works much more smoothly and accurately than AutoFrequency or MPC-HCs built in switching. Previouisly I was using Shark Codecs.

So, just something to keep in mind as what I consider a worthwhile reason to "tinker".
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post #90 of 3186 Old 09-03-2011, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMGNYC View Post

Personally, I made the effort to go with MPC-HC/MadVR just recently specifically for MadVR's automatic refresh rate switching rather than any quality improvements. It works much more smoothly and accurately than AutoFrequency or MPC-HCs built in switching. Previouisly I was using Shark Codecs.

So, just something to keep in mind as what I consider a worthwhile reason to "tinker".

Great info. So it seems like the possible pq improvement may be a secondary gain which is interesting.


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