HDHomerun Prime Owners Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 7Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1081 of 2224 Old 02-15-2013, 05:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Karyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Seattle
Posts: 6,262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karyk View Post

I'm not getting all of my channels again from Comcast. Before it was a filter left over from my Limited Basic days. This is slightly different. For one thing, it seems to affect different channels at different times.

In WMC I get a no signal message, but if I go to the HDHR programs, it shows 100% signal, but in the channel name it adds "[No Data.]" If I try to go to a channel I'm not subscribed to, I get a message to that effect.

Any idea what could be causing that sort of problem? The first Comcast rep I spoke with didn't have a clue--he told me I had upgraded to "Limited Basic" back in September, and wanted me to unplug my HDMI cable as part of his problem solving. The second one knew more, but still couldn't help me.

I found this thread over at Silicon Dust's forums, and the OP's screenshot looked exactly like mine (except my signal was 100% strength and quality) and the symptoms the same. I updated my software/firmware and it fixed the issue (so far).

http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=14564

I asked Jason about the thread and he said it was probably a channel assignment change and that a May 2012 software fix should fix it. I hope that's right, because it doesn't quite sound right with the problem having been intermittent. But again, so far, so good.
Karyk is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1082 of 2224 Old 02-15-2013, 10:33 PM
Senior Member
 
signcarver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterBoyz View Post

Checking out some of my status reporting.
See anything that needs attention?

Tuner 1 Status
Virtual Channel 854 FAMHD
Frequency 729.000 MHz
Program Number 854
Authorization subscribed
CCI Protection unrestricted
CGMS Protection n/a

Modulation Lock qam256
PCR Lock locked
Signal Strength 69% (-18.6 dBmV)
Signal Quality 91% (33.8 dB)
Symbol Quality 100%

Streaming Rate 6.043 Mbps
You also provided info about using a two way splitter for modem and tv with the tv line going to a 4 way splitter to 2 primes and 2 STBs... so I asked about modem signal level since its usually easy to see
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterBoyz View Post

Here ya go.......
Channel ID - 4 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 681000000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio = 37 dB
Downstream Modulation = QAM256
Power Level = 1 dBmV

Channel ID - 6 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 693000000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio = 38 dB
Downstream Modulation = QAM256
Power Level = 2 dBmV

Generally the loss from a 4 way splitter is about 7-8 dBmV so using the above figures, your signal should be at about -5 or -6 going into the prime. I'm trying to remember the loss of the internal split of the prime (I won't be at the location of my prime for another couple of weeks) even though the prime has an internal 4 way splitter (3 regular tuners and one oob tuner) I don't see it going from +2 to -18 even adjusting for the slight loss of the higher frequency as 693 isn't far from 729... from what I've read on reviews of the prime it should be a 0 insertion loss split internally (though I think I had about 2 to 3 db loss) not the 20 (extra 13) you are seeing which almost makes me think a diplexer is being used somewhere or just a bad cable or bad splitter. What are the signal levels like on the cable box. Most have some diagnostic screens you can view (for S/A boxes its usually holding in the center button on the box itself until an indicator blinks then press info or something like that)... Its also possible the prime itself is bad but I wouldn't think two of them would experience that.
signcarver is online now  
post #1083 of 2224 Old 02-16-2013, 07:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post


Compression Fitting


Crimp Fitting
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterBoyz View Post

Ok, compression is it.
Gotta get the tool and connectors.

Might as well get new splitters.
5-1gig or 5-2gig?

Did you ever replace the fittings? The only fittings the Charter techs use in this area are the compression fittings and if they see a cable without them they will make up a cable for you on the spot for free.

Sammy2 is offline  
post #1084 of 2224 Old 02-16-2013, 08:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dark_Slayer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,587
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 203 Post(s)
Liked: 309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Did you ever replace the fittings? The only fittings the Charter techs use in this area are the compression fittings and if they see a cable without them they will make up a cable for you on the spot for free.

Comcast previously didnt have any real techs in this area, they sub contracted those duties to people who were required to purchase there own cable, splitters, and fittings

Then when I moved service a year ago, the tech explained to me that they were moving away from that model and he was a direct employee for Comcast

Both used crimp fittings. They're all through my residence, I've never seen compression fittings or knew they existed until your picture
Dark_Slayer is offline  
post #1085 of 2224 Old 02-16-2013, 08:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
These are both contract and company techs. I think the contract techs must get their RG6 and fittings from Charter as Charter doesn't want any issues either.

I think losses through a compression fitting are far less than those through a crimp fitting because of the way they go together is much tighter..

Sammy2 is offline  
post #1086 of 2224 Old 02-16-2013, 08:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jeremyhelling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,099
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Did you ever replace the fittings? The only fittings the Charter techs use in this area are the compression fittings and if they see a cable without them they will make up a cable for you on the spot for free.

Comcast previously didnt have any real techs in this area, they sub contracted those duties to people who were required to purchase there own cable, splitters, and fittings

Then when I moved service a year ago, the tech explained to me that they were moving away from that model and he was a direct employee for Comcast

Both used crimp fittings. They're all through my residence, I've never seen compression fittings or knew they existed until your picture

Seriously? Both used crimp fittings? Even I have compression fittings and the tool. They're not that expensive and if you do it for a living I don't know why you would waste your time with anything else.

Jer

'Build a man a fire and he stays warm for one night. Set a man afire and he stays warm for the rest of his life.'
jeremyhelling is online now  
post #1087 of 2224 Old 02-16-2013, 03:02 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I'll have to check the Scientific Atlanta STB for the "level".

Got the compression fittings and tools and new splitters. Haven't had time to install yet.

Haven't tried placing the Primes directly to the main incoming coax or to the 2-way splitter yet.

Thanks for the continued support.

As a side note, it looks like the WMC thread has been pretty slow lately.

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1088 of 2224 Old 02-16-2013, 11:12 PM
Newbie
 
willchrevans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

I can't see how a hit took less than a minute for me, but 2-3 days for someone else. This is electricity we are talking about, there shouldn't be some holding pattern from a Tier 2 tech your on the phone with. If they "send" a hit, it could travel around the world over a million times in 2-3 days

If your device activates, but not all channels in your "subscription" are available then your local office needs to verify that your cablecard / account information / subscription plan all match. Otherwise you'll be missing channels or receiving more (missing is more likely smile.gif )

I can't see how either, but I'm not making it up. I work for the company in question. It took me a full week to get the cablecard on my acct. Then, when I talked to customer service the two ladies that I talked to were actually very knowledgeable and professional. They did verify all the info and sent multiple billing hits. The second told me that it'd take about 20mins to an hour for my channels to 'download'. I immediately rolled my eyes, but said ok. I've gone to many a customers homes where they tell me that story but they don't even have a drop so I was very skeptical. So, the next morning when I tried my premium channels they still didnt' work. I thought I might have to swap out the cablecard but after the trouble I went through to get in on my acct, I decided to not worry about it and wait a while. I could have tried it the next afternoon but I believe it was the day after. Either way, when I tried it again my premium channels came right through. I've been up and running great since! Now, how to get this thing running smoothly over wifi...
willchrevans is offline  
post #1089 of 2224 Old 02-16-2013, 11:40 PM
Newbie
 
willchrevans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

You also provided info about using a two way splitter for modem and tv with the tv line going to a 4 way splitter to 2 primes and 2 STBs... so I asked about modem signal level since its usually easy to see
Generally the loss from a 4 way splitter is about 7-8 dBmV so using the above figures, your signal should be at about -5 or -6 going into the prime. I'm trying to remember the loss of the internal split of the prime (I won't be at the location of my prime for another couple of weeks) even though the prime has an internal 4 way splitter (3 regular tuners and one oob tuner) I don't see it going from +2 to -18 even adjusting for the slight loss of the higher frequency as 693 isn't far from 729... from what I've read on reviews of the prime it should be a 0 insertion loss split internally (though I think I had about 2 to 3 db loss) not the 20 (extra 13) you are seeing which almost makes me think a diplexer is being used somewhere or just a bad cable or bad splitter. What are the signal levels like on the cable box. Most have some diagnostic screens you can view (for S/A boxes its usually holding in the center button on the box itself until an indicator blinks then press info or something like that)... Its also possible the prime itself is bad but I wouldn't think two of them would experience that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterBoyz View Post

Here ya go.......

Motorola Surfboard SB-6120

Downstream
Channel ID - 1 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 663000000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio = 37 dB
Downstream Modulation = QAM256
Power Level = 1 dBmV

Channel ID - 3 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 675000000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio = 37 dB
Downstream Modulation = QAM256
Power Level = 1 dBmV

Channel ID - 4 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 681000000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio = 37 dB
Downstream Modulation = QAM256
Power Level = 1 dBmV

Channel ID - 6 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 693000000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio = 38 dB
Downstream Modulation = QAM256
Power Level = 2 dBmV


Upstream
Channel ID - 4 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 34800000 Hz
Ranging Service ID = 6750
Symbol Rate = 5.120 Msym/sec
Power Level =48 dBmV
Upstream Modulation = [3] QPSK [3] 64QAM

Channel ID - 5 Bonding Channel Value
Frequency = 27900000 Hz
Ranging Service ID = 6750
Symbol Rate = 2.560 Msym/sec
Power Level = 48 dBmV
Upstream Modulation = [3] QPSK [3] 16QAM

Those modems levels look good. I'm with Signcarver on this. Something is fishy about your HDHR levels. can you take a picture of your splitter configuration and post it? I'm wondering if you have a Directional Coupler rather than a regular -4 dB two way. It's common for techs to use the DC to get the transmit on the modem down, but that'd cause more loss for your TVs if its' a DC-6 then you'd get -14 at the set. (-6-8=-14) If you get a tech to come out ask him for an amp. Preferable the kind with 1 passive voip port. That'd solve all your problems. There's a dedicated port for the modem and 4 boosted ports for your boxes. Whatever you do though, DON'T get one of those cheap amps from Radio Shack. That'll put so much noise back on your plant and cause you and your neighbors problems.
willchrevans is offline  
post #1090 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 07:55 AM
Senior Member
 
signcarver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I agree with the possibility of a directional coupler... I thought I had mentioned it but I tend to get long winded in my responses and 90% of my replies I never post since it takes too long to edit it down short enough and I end up not liking it (I tend to parenthetically explain too much of what I write...such as this) and in one of my versions I mentioned a "tap" and that often the installer thinks to provide the modem with the best possible signal and often reverse the connection from whats intended as the better signal is what should be split again. In shortening my response I removed this possibility but kept the diplexer theory as that happened to someone recently.
signcarver is online now  
post #1091 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 10:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
tranle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 536
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by willchrevans View Post

... The second told me that it'd take about 20mins to an hour for my channels to 'download'. I immediately rolled my eyes, but said ok. ...
I think that the '20 mins" is the time the standard STB box download the full updated channel guide. For an HDR with cablecard there are guide to download.
Also for comcast there is a website where you can trigger the hit yourself: comcast.com/activate.
But you need your card added to your account by the billing folks, otherwise it is not going activate and download the decryption key for premium channels.
tranle is offline  
post #1092 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 02:59 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Ok, here are the pics.

Current Splitter Config

White cable into 2-way is main line.
Black cable out of 2-way goes to modem.
Other out of 2-way is coupled into the in of the 4-way.
The outs of the 4-way go to the Primes (A and B) and the other 2 outs go to the Comcast STBs.



Current 2-Way



Current 4-Way



New 2-Way to be installed



New 4-Way to be installed
High Quality 1000 MHz indoor Splitters.
Printed circuitry board & multiple capacitor design for improved response.
All port DC Block.
High quality zinc diecast case & precision machined threads.
4 Way, 1GHz, 130dB, Horizontal, Solder back
Manufacturer Specs below:
Tin plated zinc die-cast housings for perfect corrosion protection and grounding. Completely soldered back provides the highest possible RFI shielding more than 130dB. High precision machine threaded F-ports with NO DC POWER PASSING DESIGN.
Applications may vary from headend combining to typical drop installations. This splitter series should be used where increased bandwidth is being designed into the distribution systems. Printed circuit board ensures consistent RF performance and high port to port isolation. Available with equal Loss ports or unbalanced Loss ports for 3-way splitters


I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1093 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 03:48 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Found these numbers in the S/A 8300HD STB diagnostic menu.

Second Tuner Status
Second QAM
Level: -10Dbmv

Status Summary
RF Parameter
Tuner 1 -10Dbmv
FDC -13Dbmv
RDC 43

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1094 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 04:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kegobeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
Posts: 1,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
WaterBoyz, have you considered buying a powered amplifier instead of daisy chaining splitters together?
kegobeer is offline  
post #1095 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 05:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Foxbat121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 244
From my personal experience, a SA8300HD cable DVR box (I had two of them one time) can work with signal level as low as -15 to -20 dbmv but HDHR Prime can only work with signal no lower than -9dbmv. Also, signal levels vary a lot depending on the channel frequency. The higher the frequency, the lower the signal level will be. So, to check if you have enough signal level, you need to tune to a channel that is highest frequency (close to 850Mhz in most cases).
Foxbat121 is offline  
post #1096 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 07:07 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

From my personal experience, a SA8300HD cable DVR box (I had two of them one time) can work with signal level as low as -15 to -20 dbmv but HDHR Prime can only work with signal no lower than -9dbmv. Also, signal levels vary a lot depending on the channel frequency. The higher the frequency, the lower the signal level will be. So, to check if you have enough signal level, you need to tune to a channel that is highest frequency (close to 850Mhz in most cases).


So how do I determine this?

Someday I'll know more but today is not it, but if I keep asking the questions......

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1097 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 07:27 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by kegobeer View Post

WaterBoyz, have you considered buying a powered amplifier instead of daisy chaining splitters together?

Something like this?

Linkee Powered Amp



When I get the HTPC working with no glitches and my Supervisor has given the OK, the main Comcast HD-DVR STBox is going away. So I will only need one Comcast non-DVR STbox. Thus I will need to replace the 4-way with a 3-way.

Another step is to get rid of that Comcast non-DVR STBox but I'm not sure with what yet. It is used for limited viewing since it is in the bedroom. Then I will only have the modem and the 2 Primes. Open to suggestions on the replacement.

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1098 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 07:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Foxbat121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 244
try tune different channels on your Prime and use Prime's internal web page to check for channel frequency and signal level.
Foxbat121 is offline  
post #1099 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 08:03 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

try tune different channels on your Prime and use Prime's internal web page to check for channel frequency and signal level.

Will give that a try.

Thanks..........

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1100 of 2224 Old 02-17-2013, 08:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
kegobeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Panama City Beach, FL
Posts: 1,344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterBoyz View Post

Something like this?

Linkee Powered Amp



When I get the HTPC working with no glitches and my Supervisor has given the OK, the main Comcast HD-DVR STBox is going away. So I will only need one Comcast non-DVR STbox. Thus I will need to replace the 4-way with a 3-way.

Another step is to get rid of that Comcast non-DVR STBox but I'm not sure with what yet. It is used for limited viewing since it is in the bedroom. Then I will only have the modem and the 2 Primes. Open to suggestions on the replacement.

Yep, something like that. I have an 8 port Electroline amp which works great. A long time ago I decided to run RG6 to each room from a central point, instead of doing the cheap RG59 daisy chain that home builders do, so a drop amp was essential for me. As long as you get one that the cable company uses/recommends, you should have no issues. My Prime works great with it.
kegobeer is offline  
post #1101 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 11:07 AM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
OK, found channel 170 @ 741mhz
Checked the Prime signal setting.
Signal Strength 75% -15.3DB
Signal Quality 100% 35.8 DB

Replaced the crimped f-connectors with compression and installed the new splitters in the same configuration as previously posted. Some connections were already compression which I did not change out.

AFTER
Signal Strength 73% -16.8DB
Signal Quality 99% 34.9DB

Here is the Scientific Atlanta STBox
Second Tuner Status
Second QAM 256
Level: -8Dbmv

Status Summary
RF Parameter
Tuner 1 -10Dbmv
FDC -13Dbmv
RDC 43Dbmv

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1102 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 11:32 AM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
OK, changed the coax configuration.
See post # 1092 and # 1101.

Single Prime into the 2-way splitter:
Signal Strength 86% -8.1DB
Signal Quality 100% 36.4DB

Single Prime directly attached to the cable from the demarcation box.
Signal Strength 93% -3.9DB
Signal Quality 100% 37.1DB

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1103 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 11:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterBoyz View Post

OK, changed the coax configuration.
See post # 1092 and # 1101.

Single Prime into the 2-way splitter:
Signal Strength 86% -8.1DB
Signal Quality 100% 36.4DB

Single Prime directly attached to the cable from the demarcation box.
Signal Strength 93% -3.9DB
Signal Quality 100% 37.1DB

This is pretty decent but the CableCo should be giving you 100% at the point of demarcation.

You need to put the prime first above all else. Have one 1 to 2 splitter go to the prime and then everything else on the other leg.

Sammy2 is offline  
post #1104 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 12:20 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

This is pretty decent but the CableCo should be giving you 100% at the point of demarcation.

You need to put the prime first above all else. Have one 1 to 2 splitter go to the prime and then everything else on the other leg.

I actually have 2 Primes.
I connected a single Prime on the 48ft run from the actual demarcation box, so not actually at the demarcation point.
At least I have some idea of what the signal strength is at various points.

As I mentioned, one of the STBoxs will go away after my Supervisor gives the OK to unhook the Comcast HD-DVR STBox. At that time I will swap out the 4-way splitter for a 3-way splitter which will improve, a tiny bit, the signal strength. Then I need to find a replacement for the second remaining Comcast STBox. Then I will have a simple 3-way splitter which will feed the modem and the 2 Primes.

If I was keeping the current configuration I would get the the $50 powered amp and be done with it.

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1105 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 12:27 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Off Topic somewhat....

The Guide in WMC will have errors.
The channel number will be right.
The channel logo will be right.
The actual program I'm watching will be right.
BUT
The description will be wrong. Both in the little rectangle box and when I click on the "info" button.

I download the Guide from the Task menu and that appears to fix it.

What is happening?
Is that normal?

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
post #1106 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 01:22 PM
Senior Member
 
signcarver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 16
{sorry, I have spent some time editting this, and was called away from the desk for awhile and haven't seen the posts in the past couple of hours)

I assume the STB was tuned to the same channel for testing. Also, before going into fixing anything else, is there currently a problem? In re-reading your posts, it seems the new cablecard was working and there was a problem with picture quality but I assume that was the color/black levels (nominal range) not pixilization and you asked if people "saw anything that needed attention" Which is where this whole signal level thing came into play as it is reporting too low of a signal. So it could be that all this work is for nothing (but I almost guarantee if you have any problems, people will point to that signal level first)

How much time do you have for this where it won't inconvenience others trying to use the STB, including any recordings scheduled on the dvr ... I'd suggest trying to plug in directly to the 2-way disconnecting the other 3 boxes for a short while and see if that primes signal level goes up to -8 as it should be at least 7 dBmV higher without the 4-way splitter. If the improvement causes it to go to -6 or better, I would take a close look at that "jumper" (inline male coupler) used between the two splitters as it looked like it has seen better days. If possible, I'd also like to try hooking the prime up to the same line as one of the STBs and/or the stb to the line of the prime to make sure its not the cable going to the prime. If a "real" tech (sorry, had to put "real" in as I see a number of installers just be able to connect things not test them) were out there, there are some line tests he can do that would make such moving unnecessary but you have to work with what you got and in this case its using the modem, prime and the STBs to determine signal quality. (It still might not be a bad idea to have someone analyze each line)

Earlier you mentioned returning a box and going from the 4-way to a 3-way, which I wanted to reply just use the 4 way and get rid of the 2 way as the modem should still have a great signal which made me think of another thing you could try but is something that is generally frowned upon to the point that I can't believe I'd mention it (and is why I didn't reply earlier) and that is to enter the 4-way first then use the two way to connect one leg of the 4-way to your STBs since they are more tolerant of a reduced signal however it is very possible that such a setup will reduce the quality of the signal going to the STBs to the point that they can no longer work since a lower quality signal is then being split.

{edit based on other updates)

What I don't get is there is good signal to the modem off the 2 way (+2) which means a +5 signal is coming into the house (and you really don't want anything higher) so what is coming in should be the same as going to the prime (the frequency of the modem was fairly high in relationship to most channels as it was physically 102 and your test of virtual 170 was at 115 physically... most plants go to about 134 though a GHz plant usually go to about 150, I'm old too and like the channel numbers rather than frequencies but since we have physical and virtual channel numbers it can get confusing) What happens if you try the other prime? Since Sammy replied, I am curious what his splitter/modem prime set up is like and what his signal levels are compared to modem (include frequency if possible) as I thought I read the prime had a 0 loss splitter internally and I'm not at a location I can check my own setup
signcarver is online now  
post #1107 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 02:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Foxbat121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 244
In my experience most attenuation happens > 750Mhz. IIRC from his earlier post, his modem is only on 350Mhz or so. In my setup (even with a power amp from cable co since I have a very long drop line), the difference between that and top end could as much as 20dbmv.

My suggestion to replace the cable box, get a WMC extender box like Xbox 360 or Echo or those old box from eBay and use the existing coax line for MoCA networking.
Foxbat121 is offline  
post #1108 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 02:44 PM
Member
 
benjaminmarle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

In my experience most attenuation happens > 750Mhz. IIRC from his earlier post, his modem is only on 350Mhz or so. In my setup (even with a power amp from cable co since I have a very long drop line), the difference between that and top end could as much as 20dbmv.

My suggestion to replace the cable box, get a WMC extender box like Xbox 360 or Echo or those old box from eBay and use the existing coax line for MoCA networking.

He would have to use different splitters if he uses MoCA. The splitters pictured only go to 1000Mhz and MoCA operates higher than that.
benjaminmarle is offline  
post #1109 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 02:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Foxbat121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 9,996
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 228 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjaminmarle View Post

He would have to use different splitters if he uses MoCA. The splitters pictured only go to 1000Mhz and MoCA operates higher than that.

No, since he is going to remove the cablebox and save another splitter, the segment of the coax that goes into that TV location will be disconnected from the rest and can be used as direct connect for MoCA. If you want to inject MoCA into CATV coax network, you will need a MoCA fiter to prevent the MoCA signal getting back to the cable provider. But a disconnected coax cable doesn't have any of these problems.
Foxbat121 is offline  
post #1110 of 2224 Old 02-18-2013, 03:01 PM
Senior Member
 
WaterBoyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Holly Springs which is North of Atlanta
Posts: 223
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by signcarver View Post

{sorry, I have spent some time editting this, and was called away from the desk for awhile and haven't seen the posts in the past couple of hours)

I assume the STB was tuned to the same channel for testing. Didn't think of that. Also, before going into fixing anything else, is there currently a problem? In re-reading your posts, it seems the new cablecard was working Yes and there was a problem with picture quality Could be the difference between HD and SD of the same program but I assume that was the color/black levels (nominal range) not pixilization and you asked if people "saw anything that needed attention" Which is where this whole signal level thing came into play as it is reporting too low of a signal. So it could be that all this work is for nothing (but I almost guarantee if you have any problems, people will point to that signal level first)

How much time do you have for this where it won't inconvenience others trying to use the STB, including any recordings scheduled on the dvr ... I'd suggest trying to plug in directly to the 2-way disconnecting the other 3 boxes for a short while and see if that primes signal level goes up to -8 as it should be at least 7 dBmV higher without the 4-way splitter. If the improvement causes it to go to -6 or better, I would take a close look at that "jumper" (inline male coupler) used between the two splitters as it looked like it has seen better days. I replaced it with a new gold plated unit with the new splitters. If possible, I'd also like to try hooking the prime up to the same line as one of the STBs and/or the stb to the line of the prime to make sure its not the cable going to the prime. The STBoxes are upstairs, the Primes are in the basement. The current coax to the prime I'm working with is a not new cable. I will make a new cable and report back. If a "real" tech (sorry, had to put "real" in as I see a number of installers just be able to connect things not test them) were out there, there are some line tests he can do that would make such moving unnecessary but you have to work with what you got and in this case its using the modem, prime and the STBs to determine signal quality. (It still might not be a bad idea to have someone analyze each line)

Earlier you mentioned returning a box and going from the 4-way to a 3-way, which I wanted to reply just use the 4 way and get rid of the 2 way as the modem should still have a great signal which made me think of another thing you could try but is something that is generally frowned upon to the point that I can't believe I'd mention it (and is why I didn't reply earlier) and that is to enter the 4-way first then use the two way to connect one leg of the 4-way to your STBs since they are more tolerant of a reduced signal however it is very possible that such a setup will reduce the quality of the signal going to the STBs to the point that they can no longer work since a lower quality signal is then being split. Nice thought process but I think I'll pass on this for the moment. As you mentioned, splitting the signal again after a 4-way may just be too little. I do have a new 3-way to put into service as a possible test.

{edit based on other updates)

What I don't get is there is good signal to the modem off the 2 way (+2) which means a +5 signal is coming into the house (and you really don't want anything higher) so what is coming in should be the same as going to the prime (the frequency of the modem was fairly high in relationship to most channels as it was physically 102 and your test of virtual 170 was at 115 physically... most plants go to about 134 though a GHz plant usually go to about 150, I'm old too and like the channel numbers rather than frequencies but since we have physical and virtual channel numbers it can get confusing) What happens if you try the other prime? Since Sammy replied, I am curious what his splitter/modem prime set up is like and what his signal levels are compared to modem (include frequency if possible) as I thought I read the prime had a 0 loss splitter internally and I'm not at a location I can check my own setup

Signal level at this time, I believe is not really affecting anything that I notice as to just watching TV and simple recording. Other than others who have pointed the low levels, which I asked for, I just may live with it for the moment. As I reduce the number of devices the signal level will automatically go up.

Right now, I have a more pressing problem with is my next post.

Thanks.............

I'm old.
Was trained on vacuum tubes.
Most everything I've worked on is in the museum or on the History Channel.
WaterBoyz is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off