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post #91 of 150 Old 12-29-2011, 01:43 PM
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Of course after market (larger) coolers cool better than the stock coolers. But what's the difference of 48C vs 38C? There is no proof that a 38C machine will last any longer than a 48C machine. If both are equally quiet then I will take the stock cooler and pocket the savings.

I have never heard of the stock coolers slowing down after a few years before. I don't know how that would physically even be possible. I would think the fan would just stop. If anything that sounds like an issue with the fan controller on the motherboard/bios.
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post #92 of 150 Old 12-29-2011, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Of course after market (larger) coolers cool better than the stock coolers. But what's the difference of 48C vs 38C? There is no proof that a 38C machine will last any longer than a 48C machine. If both are equally quiet then I will take the stock cooler and pocket the savings.

I have never heard of the stock coolers slowing down after a few years before. I don't know how that would physically even be possible. I would think the fan would just stop. If anything that sounds like an issue with the fan controller on the motherboard/bios.

Yup. On two different machines. My stock Intel Cooler on LGA775 eventually got so slow that my PC would overheat and turn off in protection.

I replaced the cooler and the rest is history.

I had been finishing hardwood floors and it had gotten some heavy dust in it over the year or two. I blew it out with air compressor but it still did not work well enough. It did last 2 years though.

The same happened on my p45 machine too. The coolers/fans/bearings or whatever grow weaker and rpm drops over time.

I seem to have replaced a cooler a few times on a few machines- all stock coolers. Luckily these things cost less than 20$ and take about 5 seconds to install

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post #93 of 150 Old 12-29-2011, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought a Thermaltake SATA to eSATA slot bracket adapter. The SATA end is plugged into a motherboard SATA port. Works perfectly and that's what I used to back up the Win7 OS. But it's quite inconvenient having to get to the back of the PC to plug/unplug eSATA cables.

I noticed that the eSATA female connector on the slot bracket is very substantial and is attached using two screws. There's just a hole in the slot bracket to allow the eSATA cable to pass through.

So I'm going to adapt one of the two 3.5" filler plates on the front of the tower to accomodate two eSATA cables. (One for now and one future.) All I"ll need to do is to cut 2 rectangular holes for the eSATA cables to pass through and drill 2 holes to attach each eSATA female connector. The internal SATA to eSATA cable is long enough to reach the front plate.

If your motherboard doesn't come with an eSATA port, doing the above might be an option.

Discovered two things about mounting the eSATA connector to the 3.5" front filler plate:

..... 1. Mounting the eSATA connector on the 3.5 inch "filler plate" means that the plate will be removed along with the entire front plastic case cover when I remove the case cover to do cleaning maintenance. That would necessitate unplugging the SATA cable from the mobo when the front case cover is removed. Not too good.

..... 2. The 3.5" plastic filler plate has ridges on the back side which would have to be leveled to allow the eSATA connector to sit flat against the back of the plate. A time consuming job without a Dremmel which I don't have.

I found a 5.25" tray which held the front plate for the voltage control of a power supply which died a while back. The holes in the grill lined up perfectly with the mounting screws for the eSATA connector. So all I had to do was snip out and file part of the grill to allow an eSATA cable to pass through to plug into the eSATA connector. This 5.25" tray and front plate assembly will remain on the chassis when the front case cover is removed so that's a lot better.

When setting up the BIOS parameters in CMOS, I noticed that there's a "Hot Plug" option for every SATA port. I set the SATA port that has the eSATA cable to "Hot Plug". The BIOS must have told Win7 since there's an "Eject xxxx ATA Device" option in "Safely Remove Hardware". (xxxx is the hard drive type number) This is great so now I won't have to use a third party software to do it.

ON ANOTHER NOTE:
I ordered a 3.5" front plate and tray assembly from amazon that has four USB-2, one firewire and two audio ports on it. It's not a USB "hub" but has individual cables to plug into the 4 USB ports on the motherboard. When I install it, along with the eSATA port, I'll have a lot of connectivity on the front of the tower case.

BTW, how good or bad is a USB hub? I avoided getting a USB front plate assembly that had a USB "hub" with one cable to the motherboard. I'm just asking now if they are good or bad to gain knowledge in case one of my friends comes across that situation.

Sky
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post #94 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 10:44 AM
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I would like to move an existing Win_7 install to an Intel 120GB 320 Series SSD, any thoughts on best avenue to take?

On a related note, will moving the pagefile to an HDD have an appreciable impact on performance?

td
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post #95 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

I would like to move an existing Win_7 install to an Intel 120GB 320 Series SSD, any thoughts on best avenue to take?

I haven't done it since my system was installed on a SSD, but I would do a "System Image backup" to a backup hard drive using Win7's "Backup & Restore". At the end of the backup, you will be asked if you want to save a "Repair disc". Say yes and burn it to a blank disc. Then replace your existing system HDD with your SSD, boot the Repair disc and restore your Win7 system to the SSD.

Having your existing system HDD out of the system when you do the restore will insure that it won't be damaged in case things go wrong.

A plus by doing it this way is that it will give you confidence that Win7's Backup & Restore works perfectly. Do post your results if you do it since I haven't done a restore yet and would love to know how your procedure went.

Quote:


On a related note, will moving the pagefile to an HDD have an appreciable impact on performance?

I moved my page file to a "Data" hard drive which runs at 7200 rpm. I installed 8GB of RAM in my system which I believe will reduce the need for paging to a minimum, so I don't expect that much paging will be necessary. (If necessary, for $20 more I could increase my RAM to 16GB. --- Note that my system is my main use PC built with HTPC in mind.)

Sky
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post #96 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvted View Post

I would like to move an existing Win_7 install to an Intel 120GB 320 Series SSD, any thoughts on best avenue to take?

On a related note, will moving the pagefile to an HDD have an appreciable impact on performance?

td

#1. Clean install from Windows 7 Disc
Then just hook up the old drive and copy/move/ organize archive what you want from it. Then fresh format the old drive if your going to continue using it in the PC. An external USB comes in handy for this process.


A clean install offers the most benefits in terms of performance and proper set up. Just set your MOBO BIOS to ACHI mode before you install WIndows to your new SSD.

I would not move an existing OS installation. It's more trouble for less performance. Your odds of trouble.. or issue... or lower performance are much greater than a clean install to a new SSD on ACHI bios mode.

#2. No. Don't move your page file. That whole idea is total crap. It won't extend drive life of your SSD and it will actually decrease performance.

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post #97 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post

I haven't done it since my system was installed on a SSD, but I would do a "System Image backup" to a backup hard drive using Win7's "Backup & Restore". At the end of the backup, you will be asked if you want to save a "Repair disc". Say yes and burn it to a blank disc. Then replace your existing system HDD with your SSD, boot the Repair disc and restore your Win7 system to the SSD.

Having your existing system HDD out of the system when you do the restore will insure that it won't be damaged in case things go wrong.

A plus by doing it this way is that it will give you confidence that Win7's Backup & Restore works perfectly. Do post your results if you do it since I haven't done a restore yet and would love to know how your procedure went.


I moved my page file to "Data" hard drive which runs at 7200 rpm. I installed 8GB of RAM in my system which I believe will reduce the need for paging to a minimum, so I don't expect that much paging will be necessary. (If necessary, for $20 more I could increase my RAM to 16GB. --- Note that my system is my main use PC built with HTPC in mind.)

Sky

This method does not specify if you correct the ACHI mode with the Microsoft hotfix.. or if you already had your original install in ACHI mode.

Did you verify or test any of this?

I usually find a clean install works the best and fastest. If you have ability to reinstall all your programs your best off to do it this way IMO. It's safest bet for best performance and least issues.

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post #98 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

This method does not specify if you correct the ACHI mode with the Microsoft hotfix.. or if you already had your original install in ACHI mode.

Did you verify or test any of this?

As I mentioned in my reply, "I haven't done it since my system was installed on a SSD ... snip ". You make a good point though. Although I set ACHI mode prior to my Win7 install, the poster who asked the question may not have.

Thanks,
Sky
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post #99 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylark View Post

As I mentioned in my reply, "I haven't done it since my system was installed on a SSD ... snip ". You make a good point though. Although I set ACHI mode prior to my Win7 install, the poster who asked the question may not have.

Thanks,
Sky

yup.

Most times when moving OS from HDD to SSD this has not been done..

there is a more complicated microsoft workaround hotfix..

but it's not as easy as clean installing in ACHI bios mode IMO... or as certain.

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post #100 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 01:54 PM
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+1 to a clean install when adding a SSD. This is my Gold standard.
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post #101 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 02:31 PM
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as FYI--

Calvary makes a pretty sweet USB3.0 2 bay dock... for HDD's

It does both 2.5 and 3.5" sized HDD's


It can function as a HDD dock... but it also features a drive copy feature.

It can duplicate or move one drive contents to another HDD with a single push of a button. This includes all partions, hidden files, OS etc...

It's like $60 and rather excellent little handy piece of hardware to own.

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post #102 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

as FYI--

Calvary makes a pretty sweet USB3.0 2 bay dock... for HDD's

It does both 2.5 and 3.5" sized HDD's


It can function as a HDD dock... but it also features a drive copy feature.

It can duplicate or move one drive contents to another HDD with a single push of a button. This includes all partions, hidden files, OS etc...

It's like $60 and rather excellent little handy piece of hardware to own.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817821011

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post #103 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 03:52 PM
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Didn't mean to create dissension. ;-)

Yes, a clean install would be ideal but unlikely to happen in this case as this is a slow transition to repurposing this particular config to a dedicated HTPC which will happen when I build a new desktop within the next few months. If I decide I can't do without an SSD in my desktop then I will buy another and do clean installs all round.

Regarding AHCI - can't remember the last time I used anything else, and yes I've been through the Windows hotfix once upon a time.

Thanks for the input, I'll get to it in the next week once I clean up the existing install.

td
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post #104 of 150 Old 12-31-2011, 03:56 PM
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Didn't mean to create dissension. ;-)

Yes, a clean install would be ideal but unlikely to happen in this case as this is a slow transition to repurposing this particular config to a dedicated HTPC which will happen when I build a new desktop within the next few months. If I decide I can't do without an SSD in my desktop then I will buy another and do clean installs all round.

Regarding AHCI - can't remember the last time I used anything else, and yes I've been through the Windows hotfix once upon a time.

Thanks for the input, I'll get to it in the next week once I clean up the existing install.

td

You should be ok. You could use windows backup- restore options with DVD's

or,

The drive duplicator I suggested.

Then just run the hotfix checker.. to see your in ACHI mode.

If you could manage a backup with an external drive and manage a clean instal I still think this is the best route to take.

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post #105 of 150 Old 01-11-2012, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
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The two Coolermaster Blademaster 80mm, 4pin PWM fans arrived 2 days ago along with the Silverstone front panel 4 USB-2, mic in, audio out & 1394 port adapter. Connected both fans to the motherboard's 4 pin fan headers and both spin up just fine.

The full size Antec 1030 case is adequately cooled by just the two 80mm fans, one blowing in through the 3.5" hdd drive cage at the front and one blowing out on the back of the chassis. (Along with the stock CPU cooler and the one fan in the Antec power supply of course.) The CPU and motherboard temps are about the same as when I had the 10 inch household fan blowing into the open side of the case while waiting for the Coolermaster fans to arrive.

Both fans are spinning at about 2100 to 2200 rpm and are very quiet. If the mobo temp goes up, the two fans should increase their rpms but that hasn't happened in the two days of running so far.

The entire build is very quiet and I can barely hear anything from about 4 feet away.

The Silverstone front panel adaper is made out of aluminum and is very solid. Each of the 4 USB-2 connectors has it's own cable to the motherboard. No USB hub which is what I wanted. I ohmed out all 4 USB wires to insure every one is wired correctly and they all were. All 4 USB ports test good using my USB flash memory stick. --- Tested the audio out jack and it works perfectly using headphones. Didn't check the mic in jack yet but am confident it will work just fine.

Did not connect the 1394 port since the P8H67-V mobo does not have a 1394 header.

Fans and front panel USB adapter were all purchased from amazon.

Sky
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post #106 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

#1. Clean install from Windows 7 Disc
Then just hook up the old drive and copy/move/ organize archive what you want from it. Then fresh format the old drive if your going to continue using it in the PC. An external USB comes in handy for this process.


A clean install offers the most benefits in terms of performance and proper set up. Just set your MOBO BIOS to ACHI mode before you install WIndows to your new SSD.

I would not move an existing OS installation. It's more trouble for less performance. Your odds of trouble.. or issue... or lower performance are much greater than a clean install to a new SSD on ACHI bios mode.

#2. No. Don't move your page file. That whole idea is total crap. It won't extend drive life of your SSD and it will actually decrease performance.

My present Hard Drive is a 2 TB drive and I am only using 90 GB on the 2 TB drive. What are my options other then doing a clean install? I have many apps installed on my present system and re-installing everything is not my ultimate desire. I have to dig up all my licenses, etc. What methods can be used to transfer the OS to a 256 GB SSD?

ASUS Formula III Rampage MB
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post #107 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

My present Hard Drive is a 2 TB drive and I am only using 90 GB on the 2 TB drive. What are my options other then doing a clean install? I have many apps installed on my present system and re-installing everything is not my ultimate desire. I have to dig up all my licenses, etc. What methods can be used to transfer the OS to a 256 GB SSD?

I recently did this using Acronis to back it up to a USB drive and then to restore it (both the unnamed system partition and the C: partition) to an ssd. I then used the Samsung utility to properly configure all the settings. Worked like a charm. I'm about to do the same thing again on another system. I've always done clean installs before, but this was really painless.
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post #108 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 08:17 AM
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I recently did this using Acronis to back it up to a USB drive and then to restore it (both the unnamed system partition and the C: partition) to an ssd. I then used the Samsung utility to properly configure all the settings. Worked like a charm. I'm about to do the same thing again on another system. I've always done clean installs before, but this was really painless.

The Crucial SSB came with a USB kit that plugs into the SSD and allows you to clone the drive to the SSD. I did this but the system would not boot from the SSD drive. I think I know the problem being I may not have the MB set for AHCI. I will check this out when I go home later in the day. Thanks for your reply..

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post #109 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

The Crucial SSB came with a USB kit that plugs into the SSD and allows you to clone the drive to the SSD. I did this but the system would not boot from the SSD drive. I think I know the problem being I may not have the MB set for AHCI. I will check this out when I go home later in the day. Thanks for your reply..

I think you need to be careful about "cloning" versus "back up and restore."

Some of those clone programs won't work to clone a larger partition to a smaller one regardless of how much of the larger partition is actually filled. I have no idea what program Crucial provides.

Someone may correct me on this, but I don't think the SATA mode setting should prevent the system from booting.
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post #110 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman View Post

My present Hard Drive is a 2 TB drive and I am only using 90 GB on the 2 TB drive. What are my options other then doing a clean install? I have many apps installed on my present system and re-installing everything is not my ultimate desire. I have to dig up all my licenses, etc. What methods can be used to transfer the OS to a 256 GB SSD?

make an image or back up... and then install/restore that to the SSD.

You can keep your 2Tb as it is... just incase something goes wrong.

once your up and running 100% then reformat the 2TB and your done..

with running OS on the SSD and blank 2TB for storage... and all your original stuff intact.

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post #111 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 09:26 AM
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I am running two Crucial M4 64GB in raid0 for my normal pc. Its sequential read is 1080MB/s and write is 208MB/s
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post #112 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 09:31 AM
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I am running two Crucial M4 64GB in raid0 for my normal pc. Its sequential read is 1080MB/s and write is 208MB/s

That is fast and nice but it did not answer his question...

How do you plan on keeping them running fast without TRIM?

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post #113 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 09:42 AM
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That is fast and nice but it did not answer his question...

How do you plan on keeping them running fast without TRIM?

I use a huge ramdisk for temporary files to reduce writes to my SSDs.
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post #114 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
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I use a huge ramdisk for temporary files to reduce writes to my SSDs.

So maybe that will slow down the degradation, but that doesn't answer the question of how you're going to keep them running fast without TRIM.
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post #115 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
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So maybe that will slow down the degradation, but that doesn't answer the question of how you're going to keep them running fast without TRIM.

I was wondering cause I want to RAID 0 some MAX IOPS Vertex3's

But it seems the performance advantage gained will erase itself...

So I just keep it in standard ACHI mode.

I also believe RAID does not allow ACHI...

So I was generally curious on his set up and finding.

I can get those benchmarks he got with a single MAX IOPS Vertex3 in normal mode... the first time I run it when the disk is blank and fresh and requires not erase before the write..

But also those benchmarks change to around 500/Mb sec... once the drive is broken in.

Wondering more about his set up since the claims he made interest me.

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post #116 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 11:17 AM
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Mfusick, you may want to read this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5136/i...ort-for-raid-0
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post #117 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Mfusick, you may want to read this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5136/i...ort-for-raid-0

oops.. i don't know raid0 has no trim for now. fortunately, i reduced my writes thru ramdisk. hope all will be good when there is trim.
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post #118 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ymc View Post

oops.. i don't know raid0 has no trim for now. fortunately, i reduced my writes thru ramdisk. hope all will be good when there is trim.

how do you do your ram disc ?

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #119 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

how do you do your ram disc ?

I tried several ramdisk program but the best for me is qsoft

It can create 54GB NTFS ramdisk in less than 3 min. The other programs took 30min to 1 hour.

It is also 10-15% faster than other ramdisk programs. I guess it is because it is implemented as a device driver.
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post #120 of 150 Old 01-12-2012, 11:06 PM
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You can do some manual SSD TRIMming for your RAID0:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/26...d-trim-support

"As said before the actual chipset AND chipset drivers need to support TRIM in RAID mode, and according to everything i've read, nothing supports this yet.

That being said, TRIM is not the most important thing in the world like many make it out to be. I have two first gen 32GB SSD's that have been running in RAID 0 for over a year now, with no noticeable slowdown. I turned off the pagefile, but that's it, no other mods to settings have been made and it still boots to the desktop lightning fast and I can still open every program on my desktop at once and they pop up like popcorn.

Now if/when they do start to slow down, I simply backup my drive to an image on an external hard drive, turn off raid, and wipe both drives with zero's using a live cd, re-enable the RAID and then restore the image. So you see trim really isn't needed at all as long as you can dedicate a few hours a year to manual cleaning."
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