What percentage of people buy movies legally ??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I know it is against forum rules to promote copyright infringement... I am not doing that in any way.

I am just wondering.

I am just curious what you guys think is the percentage of people that "buy" movies legally for HTCP vs. download them illegally.

If you totaled every movie on every htcp from every user on this forum- what percentage do you think have obtained the media by legal purchase at retail ?

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post #2 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 03:55 PM
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Not sure how anyone would know an answer to this.

I had a bunch of movies burnt that I downloaded in college. After a while of holding onto them, I felt guilty. They went in the trash. Now I don't own a single illegal movie. Next I gotta do something about all those songs...
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post #3 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmikester1 View Post

Not sure how anyone would know an answer to this.

I had a bunch of movies burnt that I downloaded in college. After a while of holding onto them, I felt guilty. Then went in the trash. Now I don't own a single illegal movie. Next I gotta do something about all those songs...

Not really looking for a real answer. More looking for peoples opinions.

I would guess more than 50% of the content out there was not purchased legally.

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post #4 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I know it is against forum rules to promote copyright infringement... I am not doing that in any way.

I am just wondering.

I am just curious what you guys think is the percentage of people that "buy" movies legally for HTCP vs. download them illegally.

If you totaled every movie on every htcp from every user on this forum- what percentage do you think have obtained the media by legal purchase at retail ?

I use torrenting to supplement Netflix. Granted, I could always wait and just burn the blu-ray sent from Netflix...but patience escapes me sometimes.

I'd say about 1/3 to 1/2 of my 480 movie collection is from torrenting and/or copying rental discs. Additionally, I own another 90 HD-DVD's and about 300 Blu-ray discs... (All my HD-DVD are burned and about 100 Blu-ray are burned).

Torrenting is just so much more convenient...and better quality than Netflix streaming.

I do feel guilty a lot of times though, and if I like the movie, I DO BUY IT!
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post #5 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Not really looking for a real answer.

then why ask the question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

More looking for peoples opinions.

why? feeling guilty?
hoping that the majority act in the same manor you do (whatever side of the equation that may be?) so as to justify your actions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I would guess more than 50% of the content out there was not purchased legally.

I highly doubt that... my guess would be much smaller, maybe less than 10% (note: I am only counting places where the content is available legally... if our Benevolent Media Overlords are too stupid/lazy to make a particular thing available in a particular place or in a timely manor they they deserve to have 100% pirate distribution in that area... )

personally, I avoid d/loading at all costs...
for fear of getting some crappy highly compressed video (or even low compression... really don't matter... I want all the bits...not just some of them...) and a crappy 2 channel audio mix...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #6 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:21 PM
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I absolutely do NOT illegally download movies or music.
Sometimes I'll download TV shows when I have no other choice. But they come with commercials (sometimes).

I hate thieves. And you're kidding yourself if you think it's okay to illegally download movies or music.
Netflix is my source for movies and TV.
Goodwill or eBay for used music CD's.

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post #7 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:28 PM
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This thread is going to get ugly really fast.

I don't condone or endorse downloading illegal files either but torrentfreak.com is an incredibly interesting website with lots of information about this sort of thing.
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post #8 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

then why ask the question?

Like I said I was curious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post


why? feeling guilty?
hoping that the majority act in the same manor you do (whatever side of the equation that may be?) so as to justify your actions?

Wow your reading way to far into this my friend. Almost seems like you want to pick a fight. Relax. I don't feel guilty about anything... nor have I done anything wrong. What other people do have no effect on me.

I can't help but feel like your against the concept and somehow have determined I am guilty. Your wrong on both accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

personally, I avoid d/loading at all costs...
for fear of getting some crappy highly compressed video (or even low compression... really don't matter... I want all the bits...not just some of them...) and a crappy 2 channel audio mix...

Yeah- For an enthusiast this is the #1 issue I think your right here.

I want all the bits too.

It is much more common for 1080p/720p X264/h264 MKV's with full audio as torrents now though.... It just takes way too long to download vs burning a bluray. Netflix is pretty sweet too.

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post #9 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:47 PM
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I honestly have no clue what the percentage of forum users' movies are acquired via something other than the content owners' approved distribution system. However, I would also like to see a side discussion along these lines. I'm curious to know how many of us have been driven to grabbing content from a questionable source due to some snafu related to DRM? You OWN the content already, but due to some stooooopid DRM implementation, you are unable to consume your content in the manner you want! I can say that I have been forced to snag a movie or 2 due to some ridiculous DRM implementation imposed on something that I had purchased.

Ray
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post #10 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

This thread is going to get ugly really fast.

I don't condone or endorse downloading illegal files either but torrentfreak.com is an incredibly interesting website with lots of information about this sort of thing.

Yeah it seems to be going down that path.

I was more wondering what the percentage is... as a look to the future.

It just seems that PC based content both legal and illegal is gaining momentum fast.

Cable companies suck. they charge too much and the product is terrible. Why watch live TV? The commercials alone kill me.

I was early adopter of the HD TIVO with cable card... years ago. I loved it. DVR made watching TV better.

Then came HTCP, and steaming... and downloading, ripping... etc.

No commercials. Content you want.. when you want it.

It's much better.

Seems like the direction most are taking. I have so many friends and family that watch even regular TV online now... or utilize a highspeed internet to get content.... vs watch it from cable service.

I can't imagine how different things will be in a few years.

The traditional cable service product will need to change or reduce costs to compete for sure.

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post #11 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

I honestly have no clue what the percentage of forum users' movies are acquired via something other than the content owners' approved distribution system. However, I would also like to see a side discussion along these lines. I'm curious to know how many of us have been driven to grabbing content from a questionable source due to some snafu related to DRM? You OWN the content already, but due to some stooooopid DRM implementation, you are unable to consume your content in the manner you want! I can say that I have been forced to snag a movie or 2 due to some ridiculous DRM implementation imposed on something that I had purchased.

Path of least resistance.

It's common sense.

People don't want to wait. They don't want commercials. They want what they want when they want it.

SO... if you can get it better/faster/easier online... steaming or downloading... then why would you buy a disc or pay for a cable/DSS service ???


I think the industry needs to wake up and change.

On demand type services are huge. I see value in that. If Cable changes it's operating model so that it is easier and faster.. and better to get what you want.. it would justify the cost.

Same with purchased disc media. It's either too hard or too expensive for some people.

Who wants to get up and find a disc.. and discover it scratched... when you want to watch a movie? Or can't find it?
vs.
Just hitting the button on the remote and it plays from your HTCP.

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post #12 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:55 PM
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post #13 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am just curious what you guys think is the percentage of people that "buy" movies legally for HTCP vs. download them illegally.

I'd venture that the vast, vast majority of people just buy the movies they want, or rent them. Even Netflix members, which are pretty huge number, is less than 10% the US population, and probably a very high percentage of "tech savvy" people have Netflix so the odds that a large percentage of the non-tech-savvy population (the other 90%) are downloading movies and music illegally seems highly unlikely to me.

But (and I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for this), to your question "for HTPC", I would venture given the atmosphere here, that a rather high percentage of HTPC users download movies illegally on a regular basis. I base this on the "willy nilly-ness" with which people talk about how they download torrents or usenet for stuff that's not legally distributed that way.

Frankly it amazes me that people seem compelled to advertise on the internet for all to see that they pirate movies, especially when forum rules prohibit discussion of illegal activity. It's actually kind of disappointing, the atmosphere here used to be openly hostile toward piracy, now at best it seems to look the other way.

Quote:
If you totaled every movie on every htcp from every user on this forum- what percentage do you think have obtained the media by legal purchase at retail ?

The number of posts I see here about storing their torrents or usenets, or Netflix rips just doesn't give me confidence that a significant portion of content isn't pirated on "HTPC" systems in general.

Me though, I proudly own (and unfortunately have paid way too much for a lot of it) every CD, DVD, BD in my collection. Even the ones I have to order from outside the US.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #14 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

AVS frowns upon discussing illegal downloading talk.

Just an FYI.

Yeah I did not really intend for this discussion to go too far in that direction.

I was basically under the assumption that everyone already knows about it, so it does not need to be discussed that much.

My questions and curiosity are more at "the future"

Where are things headed. It seems that as alternative methods gain momentum for content aquisistion - traditional methods are becoming less and less attractive.

I just cancelled my $100 month comcast service. It was horrible. Too expensive and I never used it.

With a much cheaper netflix account and streaming online services- I can watch all the same stuff... anytime I want and without commercials for much less cost.

I think cable companies and the industry in general needs a fast wake up call.

Their product must be superior in order to justify the high cost. Otherwise the price must come down... if they want to maintain market share.

I see a rapid decline in both movie sales- (disc media) and cable subscriptions in next 5 years.

I see streaming services, on demand services, and download services gaining much momentum during the same period.

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post #15 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 05:06 PM
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Just to be clear though there is perfectly legal and legit material available on torrents as well. Some music artists, for example, use torrents to get their name out there.

There are some TV shows too that you can download for free legally from inside utorrent.

One this is for sure though --- napster was very very very small potatoes compared to what's currently available.
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post #16 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Just to be clear though there is perfectly legal and legit material available on torrents as well. Some music artists, for example, use torrents to get their name out there.

There are some TV shows too that you can download for free legally from inside utorrent.

One this is for sure though --- napster was very very very small potatoes compared to what's currently available.

For sure. Some Clients like VUZE are built to specialize not just in obtaining the content - but distributing it - all over- to all devices. Cell phones, XBOX, Tivo, DLNA... it has support for just about everything.

It's light years beyond napster. Easier to use too.

For sure- the direction things are headed looks bad for the cable companies and movie studios.

They need to figure out a path of least resistance to make money.

Somehow offer a better quality- faster downloading... version legally for a paid price. Many people are not opposed to "paying" as much as they are opposed to the BS... of DRM, slow downloads, or lack of availability of what they want when they want it.

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post #17 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerfreak0 View Post

I use torrenting to supplement Netflix. Granted, I could always wait and just burn the blu-ray sent from Netflix

How are these two things different?
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post #18 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Path of least resistance.

SO... if you can get it better/faster/easier online... steaming or downloading... then why would you buy a disc or pay for a cable/DSS service ???

Seriously? You have to ask why someone would pay for it?
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post #19 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 07:50 PM
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I've always purchased my movie discs. And for music, if I've never owned the album in one format or another, I buy it too. Just my two cents.
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post #20 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 07:57 PM
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I'll be honest, I downloaded films before ...but now its atrip to the redbox everyday . I do rip the blurays I own and store them on my hard drives so I could use mediaportal with them

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #21 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 08:24 PM
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Some movies you just gotta buy...others are just rentals. That being said I have 300+ movies....bought some rented others. Thats all Im saying.

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post #22 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 09:04 PM
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I prefer not to own much of any media. I prefer subscription services like Rhapsody (for streaming music), Netflix, Amazon & RedBox (streaming video and rentals). What we do own is kids' stuff or Christmas movies that we watch again and again. Now with a CableCard tuner, most of our movies will be what we DVR. I don't keep much of those, again, unless it's something we'll actually watch again.

 

 

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post #23 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I was more wondering what the percentage is... as a look to the future.

In my experience most DVD movies can
be ripped to DVD-R or dual layer DVD.

Many city libraries have DVD movies.

To me illegal ripping is more than 10%

That's a very conservative low estimate,
and it won't surprise me if it's 40+%.

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post #24 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 09:53 PM
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Thanks for the reminder, the city Libraries often have a huge collection of free rentals. Especially for music of all types.

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post #25 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 10:15 PM
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I own every single title I store. Every single one. Those people work hard, they deserve my money, I have no problem with it. Now, that having been said, I have acquired numerous by things like.. buying out Blockbuster BD's when they closed our locals (the same with Hollywood Rentals), and I buy a ton through Craigslist; and Amazon Black Friday pulled nearly a grand out of my pocket.

I have zip reason to consider illegally ripping. I do rent through netflix, but the thing is: Netflix Rentals (and Redbox) are often stripped down versions at lower bitrate, they include limited or NO special features, which defeat the point. There are quite a few movies I will rent first before I buy, but it's too easy to buy movies cheap.

Seriously, go on Amazon Marketplace, you can grab BD's for less then $8 everywhere; over this last holiday I purchased more then 100BDs between Walmart and Amazon, and I spent considerably less then a grand. CONSIDERABLY. Hell, I grabbed a ton at walmart for $5!

I've had my Media Center setup with two cable cards now for almost a year, with 4TB recording (yes, I get Sho/HBO/Starz/etc.) and anything from those, I have no problem keeping hold of whatever for near infinity
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post #26 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 10:48 PM
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I'll be honest - I don't think it is realistic to expect that every movie, every TV show on every hard drive will be obtained 100% legally. In this day and age, this economy and with sky-high prices for new movies nobody is going to buy every single movie and TV show they want to watch.

Now that I have my media server at home, an HTPC and "MyMovies" for WMC, it does make it more fun to buy a blu-ray, rip it to my server and browse my collection on-screen.

However, the act of breaking the DRM on the disc will soon be illegal in Canada, so if I'm transferring my purchased blu-ray to my media server illegally, why not go all the way and download it illegally? Why would I go out of my way to spend $30 on "Cars 2" if coping it to my server will be illegal? Why not just torrent it?
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post #27 of 308 Old 12-21-2011, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie View Post

I absolutely do NOT illegally download movies or music.
Sometimes I'll download TV shows when I have no other choice. But they come with commercials (sometimes).

I hate thieves. And you're kidding yourself if you think it's okay to illegally download movies or music.
Netflix is my source for movies and TV.
Goodwill or eBay for used music CD's.

so you I hate thieves but you sometimes download TV Shows

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My HD-DVD/BD Collection

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post #28 of 308 Old 12-22-2011, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmservo View Post

I own every single title I store. Every single one. Those people work hard, they deserve my money, I have no problem with it. Now, that having been said, I have acquired numerous by things like.. buying out Blockbuster BD's when they closed our locals (the same with Hollywood Rentals), and I buy a ton through Craigslist; and Amazon Black Friday pulled nearly a grand out of my pocket.

I have zip reason to consider illegally ripping. I do rent through netflix, but the thing is: Netflix Rentals (and Redbox) are often stripped down versions at lower bitrate, they include limited or NO special features, which defeat the point. There are quite a few movies I will rent first before I buy, but it's too easy to buy movies cheap.

Seriously, go on Amazon Marketplace, you can grab BD's for less then $8 everywhere; over this last holiday I purchased more then 100BDs between Walmart and Amazon, and I spent considerably less then a grand. CONSIDERABLY. Hell, I grabbed a ton at walmart for $5!

I've had my Media Center setup with two cable cards now for almost a year, with 4TB recording (yes, I get Sho/HBO/Starz/etc.) and anything from those, I have no problem keeping hold of whatever for near infinity

There was a discussion on the forums about rentals being lower bit rate. The conclusion was this was not true.

I rent from RedBox and Netflix and don't notice any quality loss in my theater on a 10' screen compared to Retail Blu-Rays I've purchased.

My First Home Theater

300 Blu-Rays, 150 DVD's loaded in my Movie Server!

Thanks AVS for making me addicted to this hobby!
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post #29 of 308 Old 12-22-2011, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Seriously? You have to ask why someone would pay for it?

No. I was suggesting that since it is harder to remain legal and easier to just "steal" it- that is what many do. many do this- who might be willing to pay for it... because it's not worth the effort to actually do it.

If they made it easier/faster/better to pay for it- I think you would see a higher percentage of people do it.

Example: If you could download directly from the MFG a 1080p/DTSMA MKV in full bitrate quality at unlimited/unthrottled download speeds for $2 and you had the ability to re-download it anytime in the future with your username/password and receipt of payment- Would you use this service?

I would. For sure. Without any doubts. Saving me tons of time ripping, storing... going to the store to buy or rent... or downloading. Not to mention I would be certain of the quality and feel "good" that I bought it.

It's well worth it to me.

But you don't see this much at all. --- While in comparison you can almost do all that without any cost illegally in the torrent world. The movie studios and content distributors need to re-invent themselves in order to compete or make additional income in this new world.

For many years to come your going to have the average person doing what they have always done, - subscribing to cable, and renting/buying discs.

For the tech savy (us here) we want a little more.. and our expertise level is higher. Instead they try to fight it- block it... wasting time and money .. because it is inevitable the shift how media is obtained. They would be smarter to try to outcompete and offer a better product/service/quality that's worth paying for- in the manner people want it.

Just my .02$

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #30 of 308 Old 12-22-2011, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisx510 View Post

There was a discussion on the forums about rentals being lower bit rate. The conclusion was this was not true.

I rent from RedBox and Netflix and don't notice any quality loss in my theater on a 10' screen compared to Retail Blu-Rays I've purchased.

I don't know how they could conclude that, frankly. I've had Netflix rentals that I -know- were not the same (no extras, and in one case, DTS Audio and NO DTS-HD soundtrack). So, there is definitely a difference between the rentals and the real thing.

Besides, I generally rent stuff I don't want to keep or I'm on the fence about.

Example: I just rented "Super" (Rainn Wilson as a wrench wielding super hero) which I was unsure of.. but it cracked me up. But seriously, since I'm already a member of Prime, it's $12 at Amazon + Free Shipping, so I'll just add it to the collection.

If people have done tests, they still miss the point; most copies that are tagged as "Rental Copies" etc. do not have any of the extras, and that's part of the reason to buy (IMHO).
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