Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 106 - AVS Forum
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post #3151 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 11:36 AM
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I don't think MS publish details about its extender protocols. Something related to DRM smile.gif But I think you are fighting a losing battle here.

The key take away here is that bandwidth really doesn't matter much. Average cable HD channel is about 15mbps. So even 11G wireless can handle it. It is about packet loss. Powerline networking has gone a long way. Today's AV200 (and AV500) protocol has much improved to my supprise. You don't need 300mbps or even 150mbps connection rate to watch TV on extenders. Anything over 70mbps will do and much more reliable than wireless connection. However, it is very dependent on how your house is wired. So, you just have to get a pair locally (should be around $50) and try it out yourself. I was deeply suspecious like you before (and I read various articles on smallnetbuilders.com as well). But now I own four pairs of powerline adapters (you only need one as master to bridge the connection) in addition to my MoCA adapters.
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post #3152 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I don't think MS publish details about its extender protocols. Something related to DRM smile.gif

It's probably not DRM. Secrecy of the protocol itself wouldn't provide any security. To the extent that the extender protocol isn't published, it is probably an IP licensing issue.
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But I think you are fighting a losing battle here.

I suspect you're right. I'm not really expecting to get this issue resolved. I'll try some different firmware in the bridges, just for kicks, but I doubt I'll get it to work. There''s probably just some weird incompatibility issue between my WNHDE111 bridges and the Echo (and/or WMC). And I don't really expect Ceton (or Netgear) to try to get to the bottom of it.

I still find it incredibly weird, though, that the mpg file would work fine, but the wtv file doesn't. This seems particularly weird given that I thought the WMC server does the splitting, so once it gets on the network there really shouldn't be much of a difference between the wtv and mpg files.

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Anything over 70mbps will do and much more reliable than wireless connection. However, it is very dependent on how your house is wired. So, you just have to get a pair locally (should be around $50) and try it out yourself. I was deeply suspecious like you before (and I read various articles on smallnetbuilders.com as well). But now I own four pairs of powerline adapters (you only need one as master to bridge the connection) in addition to my MoCA adapters.

I still strongly disagree that wireless is necessarily less reliable than wired. There's plenty of sources of interference with powerline networking too. The SmallNetBuilder reviews really don't show the adapters as having great performance. I don't just mean raw throughput- they also suffer from the same dropouts as wireless.

Out of curiosity, are your powerline adapters on the same circuit?

Anyways, I suspect I could grab some other wireless bridges and get things working (or maybe even powerline adapters, although given the age of the wiring in my townhouse I'm very skeptical). I know at least one person is using a pair of Asus routers in bridge mode. But doing that, or wiring my townhouse with ethernet, would probably more than double the cost of moving to WMC and Echos. I just don't have that kind of money right now. So, I'll probably end up returning the Echo if I can't find a way to make it work with my current bridges.
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post #3153 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 04:00 PM
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I have a pretty old 3-level house. I don't think all the locations I used my adapters are on the same circuit. I also have a special adapter plugs into dryer that let you bridge signal from one circuit to another. But so far I have not found it made any effect yet. Actually, newer house wiring may not be better for powerline networking. Like I said, you just have to try it for yourself.
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post #3154 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 04:27 PM
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I guess part of the issue is that I haven't been overly impressed with the Echo yet. Maybe Ceton can do something exciting with it someday, but it isn't there yet. So I have a hard time justifying spending more than the $160 I paid for the Echo.
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post #3155 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

So I have a hard time justifying spending more than the $160 I paid for the Echo.

While I decided not to go forward with the beta program, I think you will find that the amount of people saying just what you said is growing larger.

Where are we now on the relase date on this thing anyway? Thanksgiving is just 4 days away and has Ceton done ANYTHING new to the firmware side of this device? Reading here there is no way it is ready for public release at a $180 price point.
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post #3156 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 05:50 PM
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While I decided not to go forward with the beta program, I think you will find that the amount of people saying just what you said is growing larger.
Where are we now on the relase date on this thing anyway? Thanksgiving is just 4 days away and has Ceton done ANYTHING new to the firmware side of this device? Reading here there is no way it is ready for public release at a $180 price point.

They posted over on TGB that they were sticking to the November release date. They've had a number of firmware updates that patch some important bugs, but its still limited to 720p output and there's no AC3/DTS passthrough.
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post #3157 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 05:51 PM
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Release date is not Thanksgiving. And yes the last f/w released on 11/13 has made strides in the right direction.

AC3/DTS passthrough is not in the specs on their page but it is something that is being worked on.

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post #3158 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

I guess part of the issue is that I haven't been overly impressed with the Echo yet. Maybe Ceton can do something exciting with it someday, but it isn't there yet. So I have a hard time justifying spending more than the $160 I paid for the Echo.

I'm with you. I also spent $160 and yet saw any Echo in action.

But if you are going WMC route, wireless probably won't work out well for extenders like Xbox 360.
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post #3159 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Release date is not Thanksgiving. And yes the last f/w released on 11/13 has made strides in the right direction.
AC3/DTS passthrough is not in the specs on their page but it is something that is being worked on.

As mentioned on the Newegg preorder page, the Release Date is scheduled for 11/30/12

Also, as far as AC3 passthrough, I'm currently using it on my Echo. Note that public support for it won't be in the next release, but it should be soon. It's been working flawlessly in the last few days I've used it.
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post #3160 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

They posted over on TGB that they were sticking to the November release date. They've had a number of firmware updates that patch some important bugs, but its still limited to 720p output and there's no AC3/DTS passthrough.
Lame. And you guys actually paid money for this apparent POS turd....
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post #3161 of 7721 Old 11-18-2012, 08:02 PM
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Is that level of negativity really necessary? Insulting people who are trying to help via the beta and ceton provides no useful input to this thread at all.
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post #3162 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 05:17 AM
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As a beta tester, I would suggest holding back on any "turd" comments until the dang thing is released and we can see what it does. Beta programs offer us early access to help test and give feedback. While I haven't given much feedback on the beta forums, it's because by the time I got mine, there are two things I still want out of it. AC3/DTS passthru and playback of BluRay/DVD rips. With those two features, it's worth the $180. Without them, maybe more like $120 since I woudl still need to go spend $60 on a streaming device that gets me everything else.
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post #3163 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 05:37 AM
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So far i have kept my preorder, but i will be pretty pissed if this thing doesn't have 1080p output and toslink by release time as they promised. With a $180 price tag, people will expect a perfect extender upon release.
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post #3164 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 06:12 AM
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As a beta tester, I would suggest holding back on any "turd" comments until the dang thing is released and we can see what it does. Beta programs offer us early access to help test and give feedback.


It's tough for us to not be critical of this device as it has been a total dumpster fire since the day it was announced. I mean, come on. They still haven't included 1080p in beta testing yet and the release date is only 11 days away?? Hell, how much programming time do you think Ceton will actually get in this week with Thanksgiving here. I'd be suprised if they work on it much at all with the holidays.

If we think the chorus of boos is loud now what till it goes out for public comsumption with the "features" it has now. It is just sad that the window is closing and time is running out for this to be a great piece of equipment.
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post #3165 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 07:10 AM
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Erick,

Do you know if newegg will offer shoprunner shipping option with this extender? They currently doesn't have that option on their webpage for the echo, but they have it for the infinity.
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post #3166 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by gabrielcab View Post

Erick,

Do you know if newegg will offer shoprunner shipping option with this extender? They currently doesn't have that option on their webpage for the echo, but they have it for the infinity.

Isn't that more of a question for newegg?

In search of video bliss...
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post #3167 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

They still haven't included 1080p in beta testing yet and the release date is only 11 days away?? Hell, how much programming time do you think Ceton will actually get in this week with Thanksgiving here. I'd be suprised if they work on it much at all with the holidays.

I'm actually less concerned about 1080p output... I wasn't going to mention this, but since I see it has already been discussed in this thread, I'm actually more concerned about the Echo's handling of interlaced material at this point. Frankly, I don't see how anyone can stand watching 1080i material on the thing. Hopefully they can work that out in the next week and a half. Other than that, I think the Echo is pretty usable in its current form, albeit a little crippled in some areas (1080p output, no passthrough yet).

Realistically, there's stil going to be some bugs and some missing features on release day. At this point I'd be surprised if they really have everything from their previous e-mail working *well* on release day. I'm not suggesting that anyone should cancel their pre-orders, I just hope people's expectations are set accordingly. The hardware in the Echo should be more than capable of supporting all the features they've listed and more. It's probably just a matter of time before they get things working well.
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post #3168 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 07:59 AM
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What's with all the negativity? Each f/w has brought improvements and most importantly, stability. Now that it is stabil, the real work can begin. Keep in mind that the Freescale SOC in the echo was just released in early October and ceton did not have a whole lot of time with the echo before shipping them in the beta.

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post #3169 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

It's tough for us to not be critical of this device as it has been a total dumpster fire since the day it was announced. I mean, come on. They still haven't included 1080p in beta testing yet and the release date is only 11 days away?? Hell, how much programming time do you think Ceton will actually get in this week with Thanksgiving here. I'd be suprised if they work on it much at all with the holidays.
If we think the chorus of boos is loud now what till it goes out for public comsumption with the "features" it has now. It is just sad that the window is closing and time is running out for this to be a great piece of equipment.
While I agree that things don't look very promising for everything to be in place for the end of November release, it's completely unfair for people to be as critical as they're being on a product that is still in beta and has not yet missed its release date. Even with Thanksgiving in the mix, I'm sure Ceton will spend the rest of the remaining time working as hard as they can. If the end of November comes and they still haven't delivered what was promised, criticism is certainly warranted. Until then, people really ought to give them a chance to deliver and keep their criticism to themselves. This thread is a perfect example of why many companies don't say make public announcements before products are ready and require NDA's for betas.

IMHO,1080p, DD passthrough, and toslink output are absolute must-have features before shipping. Until those features are complete, they should not release the product. But at least give them a chance to meet their deadline...
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post #3170 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 08:53 AM
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While I agree that things don't look very promising for everything to be in place for the end of November release, it's completely unfair for people to be as critical as they're being on a product that is still in beta and has not yet missed its release date. Even with Thanksgiving in the mix, I'm sure Ceton will spend the rest of the remaining time working as hard as they can. If the end of November comes and they still haven't delivered what was promised, criticism is certainly warranted. Until then, people really ought to give them a chance to deliver and keep their criticism to themselves. This thread is a perfect example of why many companies don't say make public announcements before products are ready and require NDA's for betas.
IMHO,1080p, DD passthrough, and toslink output are absolute must-have features before shipping. Until those features are complete, they should not release the product. But at least give them a chance to meet their deadline...

Agreed, but still makes me wonder why they had a limited availability public beta like this - why not just go with the closed NDA type beta?

Did they go into this phase thinking that everything was working so well that it would only be positive feedback? That's the only reason I can imagine for having a 'public beta'.
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post #3171 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 08:54 AM
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The hardware in the Echo should be more than capable of supporting all the features they've listed and more. It's probably just a matter of time before they get things working well.

That is exactly what many people who purchased the Boxee Box though (regarding HD audio). I'm not giving the Echo a hard time... just saying decide based on what the device does (when you are ready to purchase) not what you hope it becomes.
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post #3172 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 08:59 AM
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Agreed, but still makes me wonder why they had a limited availability public beta like this - why not just go with the closed NDA type beta?
Did they go into this phase thinking that everything was working so well that it would only be positive feedback? That's the only reason I can imagine for having a 'public beta'.
No idea - I certainly would have gone with a closed beta with NDA's if I had been the one making the decision. Too many things can go wrong during a beta and too much public discussion of those issues can really hurt the product and company in the long run.
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post #3173 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 09:14 AM
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That is exactly what many people who purchased the Boxee Box though (regarding HD audio). I'm not giving the Echo a hard time... just saying decide based on what the device does (when you are ready to purchase) not what you hope it becomes.

Boxee Box has a three year old Atom based intel CE4110 SoC. That might have a lot to do with it.

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post #3174 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 09:16 AM
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I think its been mentioned, but does the Echo have a web browser built into it? If so, that alone might justify the price. I'm using a 360, but without an XBox Live subscription, which minimum is going to be $30 a year, you can't use Internet Explorer, so no Pandora, EspnWATCH, etc.

Is there any CEC compatibility? The TV I use my 360 with is used for nothing but the 360 as an extender, would be nice to only have one remote to use.
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post #3175 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 09:44 AM
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I think its been mentioned, but does the Echo have a web browser built into it? If so, that alone might justify the price. I'm using a 360, but without an XBox Live subscription, which minimum is going to be $30 a year, you can't use Internet Explorer, so no Pandora, EspnWATCH, etc.
Is there any CEC compatibility? The TV I use my 360 with is used for nothing but the 360 as an extender, would be nice to only have one remote to use.

Both of those features are under development right now.

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post #3176 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 09:50 AM
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Both of those features are under development right now.

Good to hear. Hopefully they can get that working.
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post #3177 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 11:09 AM
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I think its been mentioned, but does the Echo have a web browser built into it? If so, that alone might justify the price. I'm using a 360, but without an XBox Live subscription, which minimum is going to be $30 a year, you can't use Internet Explorer, so no Pandora, EspnWATCH, etc.

The browser isn't done yet, but I suspect Pandora will work. I don't think Pandora is all HTML5 at this point, and so it won't be a problem that flash/silverlight won't be available on the Echo. I haven't used EspnWatch, but I suspect that uses flash, so it won't work on the Echo.
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post #3178 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 11:43 AM
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Plex (xbmc spinoff) is soon to be releasing a means to access your media over the web (read about it here if you wish: http://elan.plexapp.com/ ) would be great if echo supports it!
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post #3179 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 01:22 PM
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No one has mentioned this possibly huge news?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57551679-75/xbox-720-to-offer-kinect-2.0-and-blu-ray-drive-says-xbox-world/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Wouldn't this effectively kill Ceton's Q and Echo?
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post #3180 of 7721 Old 11-19-2012, 02:11 PM
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No one has mentioned this possibly huge news?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57551679-75/xbox-720-to-offer-kinect-2.0-and-blu-ray-drive-says-xbox-world/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Wouldn't this effectively kill Ceton's Q and Echo?

How exactly is this going to kill the echo?
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