Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 133 - AVS Forum
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post #3961 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by EAS View Post

You are clearly not the target customer if you find the Xbox is your solution. No point in bashing or being critical of Ceton if you are a happy Xbox owner.

Then I guess the majority of HTPC owners, the people that Ceton depends upon, aren't the target customers either. The Echo is barely lower in price than the X360, yet it sure looks like it's not ready for primetime. Things like this can and do sink small companies like Ceton. And I really want Ceton to exist and thrive because the alternative is pretty grim.
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post #3962 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

Echo will support Android + XBMC on Android = Echo as XBMC device

Assumed.
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post #3963 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:27 AM
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Yes, assumption. But if I were trying to get an android compatible media experience working within a month, I wouldn't want to reinvent the wheel- working on just getting HW video decoding working on their HW within the already developed XBMC environment sounds like a lot less work, and would make a lot of people very happy!
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post #3964 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

Then I guess the majority of HTPC owners, the people that Ceton depends upon, aren't the target customers either. The Echo is barely lower in price than the X360, yet it sure looks like it's not ready for primetime. Things like this can and do sink small companies like Ceton. And I really want Ceton to exist and thrive because the alternative is pretty grim.

The target customer for an Echo wants a small lower power device that can fit in a tight spot or behind the TV. They also don't care about the gaming or Kinect features of the Xbox. While price is important if you can even consider an Xbox as an alternate to an Echo you aren't the target buyer.

http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/36016-xbox-360-vs-Ceton-Echo

If you want the company to be successful you have a weird way of supporting them.
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post #3965 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Just because someone decided to go with an Xbox doesn't mean that an Echo without major functional issues wouldn't have been the preferred option. But if the person needs to keep other family members happy, it's probably best to go with a solution that actually works well even if it isn't ideal (the downsides to the XBOX are that it makes noise, gives off more heat, and takes up more space).

The point is that if one is able to solve their needs and are happy with (or just plain accept) an xbox instead of something like the Echo they aren't truly the target customer. I'm not saying that they couldn't be a customer, just that they really don't have some footing or platform to bash the company or be critical. Being snappy about a product you aren't buying is a little weird. Perhaps the poster wanted an Echo...why bitch about the product he didn't buy? It's like complaining about the girl you didn't marry....
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post #3966 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jacobsjg View Post

Yes, assumption. But if I were trying to get an android compatible media experience working within a month, I wouldn't want to reinvent the wheel- working on just getting HW video decoding working on their HW within the already developed XBMC environment sounds like a lot less work, and would make a lot of people very happy!

Is there a feature description of the "android" support for the Echo somewhere? I'm curious. I've posted the question about the support in this thread a couple of times and never really got an answer. I'm actually assuming that the company is going to add android app support through something like Alien Dalvik. This is easy to do if already have a working system (think Android support on Blackberry Playbook). How much you support and what might actually run is then up to the company. They might create their own app store with signed packages without any sort of sideloading. I'd be surprised if they were able to support WMC extender and some other solution under their license. Not saying it couldn't be possible. That would be cool. I'd put it in the "too good to be true" bucket and still hope it can come true.
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post #3967 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:50 AM
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... It's like complaining about the girl you didn't marry....

But it is safer than complaining about the one you did marry wink.gif

Anyway, it is not something I would buy right now, but once the bugs are worked out I will getting a few of them. Thanks to everyone who is testing the Echo now.
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post #3968 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

Then I guess the majority of HTPC owners, the people that Ceton depends upon, aren't the target customers either. The Echo is barely lower in price than the X360, yet it sure looks like it's not ready for primetime. Things like this can and do sink small companies like Ceton. And I really want Ceton to exist and thrive because the alternative is pretty grim.

The target customer for an Echo wants a small lower power device that can fit in a tight spot or behind the TV. They also don't care about the gaming or Kinect features of the Xbox. While price is important if you can even consider an Xbox as an alternate to an Echo you aren't the target buyer.

http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/36016-xbox-360-vs-Ceton-Echo

If you want the company to be successful you have a weird way of supporting them.

the target base is anyone using the WMX functionality. Ceton is not going to win gaming customers so the only logical comparison is the extender functionality (and ability to stream compatible media to the device). The ability to hide or place behind isn't that relative due to both requiring an RF extender to place behind anything. Would most people prefer a smaller phone or an iphone. in other words one that gets it pretty much correct or one that's small but has its flaws.

In search of video bliss...
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post #3969 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Is there a feature description of the "android" support for the Echo somewhere?

No, and they aren't talking publicly about what it will mean.

I think it's safe to assume that there will be a browser and some OTT apps - hopefully including Netflix (because seriously, what's the point if it doesn't have Netflix).
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post #3970 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

The ability to hide or place behind isn't that relative due to both requiring an RF extender to place behind anything. .

?
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post #3971 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 12:01 PM
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The point is that if one is able to solve their needs and are happy with (or just plain accept) an xbox instead of something like the Echo they aren't truly the target customer. I'm not saying that they couldn't be a customer, just that they really don't have some footing or platform to bash the company or be critical. Being snappy about a product you aren't buying is a little weird. Perhaps the poster wanted an Echo...why bitch about the product he didn't buy? It's like complaining about the girl you didn't marry....
Sorry, but that's a load of bull. The target customer is anyone who wants a WMC extender. If the buyer cares about playing games, the XBOX is obviously the better (only) choice. If the buyer needs something small, silent, and that doesn't generate much heat, the Echo is the better (only) choice. In all other cases, the Echo is a very compelling option - once the bulk of the functional issues have been addressed. I really doubt that Ceton really wants to limit their target customer only to those looking for the small form factor.
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post #3972 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 12:10 PM
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The target customer is anyone who wants only a WMC extender.


I fixed that for you.
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post #3973 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 12:22 PM
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I fixed that for you.

The target customer is anyone who wants only a WMC extender but has very low expectations regarding performance and video quality and who is willing to participate in very long beta program.

Just another blank signature.
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post #3974 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 12:26 PM
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The current target customer is anyone who wants only a WMC extender but has very low expectations regarding performance and video quality and who is willing to participate in very long beta program.

I fixed that for you. smile.gif
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post #3975 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 12:36 PM
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I want a WMC extender and have high expectations on video quality and source of playback. I still believe that ceton will pull this off sooner than later. The beta program was too short but I think these issues will be hammered out soon. A few pages back there was discussion of the pixel clock of the processor and doing 1080i being a mis-match mainly from informtion garnered from someplace on Freescale's website. I don't understand all of that enough to see if it is in fact, shall we say, fact. That said I will be watching the Echo and if it stays the same in the next few weeks then it will not meet my expectations. I, for one, am willing to allow a bit more time here... At least until I see what it does with android. The 1080i issue, although not greatly noticed by me, does exist and needs to be fixed. The content is watchable for me but it could be better. Right now I am on the fence.

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post #3976 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 12:46 PM
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I want a WMC extender and have high expectations on video quality and source of playback. I still believe that ceton will pull this off sooner than later. The beta program was too short but I think these issues will be hammered out soon. A few pages back there was discussion of the pixel clock of the processor and doing 1080i being a mis-match mainly from informtion garnered from someplace on Freescale's website. I don't understand all of that enough to see if it is in fact, shall we say, fact. That said I will be watching the Echo and if it stays the same in the next few weeks then it will not meet my expectations. I, for one, am willing to allow a bit more time here... At least until I see what it does with android. The 1080i issue, although not greatly noticed by me, does exist and needs to be fixed. The content is watchable for me but it could be better. Right now I am on the fence.

+1 - I totally agree with you on these points. There is great potential for this little box and I just hope firmware will come sooner than later that will correct the issues that most of us see.

We just have to be patient. Yep, they rolled it out to quickly that is for sure. But, I think they are working on this and I would anticipate we will see new firmware soon. It may not make it "perfect", but if it is a step in the right direction, I will be happy.
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post #3977 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 12:54 PM
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The ability to hide or place behind isn't that relative due to both requiring an RF extender to place behind anything. .

?

both devices require line of sight for the remote to work. so hiding either is a 50/50 proposition

In search of video bliss...
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post #3978 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:03 PM
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both devices require line of sight for the remote to work. so hiding either is a 50/50 proposition

Was able to connect my Lenovo N5902 and it work (though limited) just wish they would enable full keyboard support. My guess is most RF remotes with USB should work.

-RobNY
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post #3979 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

both devices require line of sight for the remote to work. so hiding either is a 50/50 proposition

That's not true. Do you own a Ceton product?

http://cetoncorp.com/products/companion/
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post #3980 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:11 PM
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LOL - my wife would say I am jerky! smile.gif But it is the Echo...
Currently, I am using an Airport Extreme (Gen 3) as my router. The Echo's are plugged in to my HP ProCure 10/100/1000 24 port switch along with the Media Center PC. Everything is on the same back-plane including two HDHomeRun tuners.
I do notice the ticker and pans are "almost" watchable. The news looks fine as an example but you get some movement in the picture and it does show the frame skips... Not a show stopper - and I can wait for future firmware / software updates to come. I am going to try a recorded TV show tonight so see how that looks.
I am coming from SageTV, running on Ubuntu 11.x 64 bit Server with 3 HD300 extenders. It was perfect...
This product will mature, and I feel that it is worthwhile to stay with them - big potential.

I just re-produced a bit of jerkyness or a chugging ticker. Instead of having the HTPC and the Echo plugged in to the router (Asus RTN56U running the Russian firmware) I am running them through a managed switch (Dell PowerConnect 5324) I might need to tweak the switch to eliminate the chugging.
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post #3981 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:17 PM
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That's not true. Do you own a Ceton product?
http://cetoncorp.com/products/companion/

That is a good point. Can multiple smart phones have the companion running on them to control the same device?

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post #3982 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:18 PM
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I just re-produced a bit of jerkyness or a chugging ticker. Instead of having the HTPC and the Echo plugged in to the router (Asus RTN56U running the Russian firmware) I am running them through a managed switch (Dell PowerConnect 5324) I might need to tweak the switch to eliminate the chugging.

So are you saying that connected direct to the router the problem doesn't exist but when you use the switch it does?

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post #3983 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:27 PM
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Has anyone programmed the Echo to work with a Logitech Harmony Remote yet? I bought some refurbed Harmony 300i's on Newegg... There are a few options for MCE equipment- was wondering if anyone has already done my homework for me to figure out which existing profile works best for the Echo...

Ceton- if you're reading, it would be a good thing to work with Logitech to get a Harmony profile going for the Echo. The refurbed 300i is short money...
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post #3984 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

both devices require line of sight for the remote to work. so hiding either is a 50/50 proposition

My TV has an IR repeater port, I would assume many newer units would have this built in beings mine is probably around 4 years old now. My Echo is on a rack in a closet, out of site out of mind....Wife Approved still after a week.
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post #3985 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAS View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

both devices require line of sight for the remote to work. so hiding either is a 50/50 proposition

That's not true. Do you own a Ceton product?

http://cetoncorp.com/products/companion/

So what! That Would work on an Xbox as well. So your position is what? I can pay more to get a feature that is free via Xbox. Ever hear of Xbox smartglass?
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/4/3062660/microsoft-xbox-smart-glass-app
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/smartglass

In search of video bliss...
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post #3986 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:34 PM
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I just re-produced a bit of jerkyness or a chugging ticker. Instead of having the HTPC and the Echo plugged in to the router (Asus RTN56U running the Russian firmware) I am running them through a managed switch (Dell PowerConnect 5324) I might need to tweak the switch to eliminate the chugging.

Seems that people think the stutter (chugging) is network related. I don't think so. If it was, then the problem would happen when the echo was set to output 720p, but from what I am seeing it only happens when the echo is set to 1080i or p. My assumption is that the raw file is served to the echo, and that the echo takes that file and ouputs it at the resolution option selected. It seems unlikely that the server pc is actually transcoding the file to the echo resolution setting.

In other words, the recording is streamed to the echo as a raw file, and the echo converts to 720p or 1080(i,p) as defined in the settings, so the same number of bits are going from server to echo, regardless of echo resolution setting.

Sure seems like that would be the way it would work, but I might be wrong.

I just dont want people wasting time tinkering with network config if that is not what causes this (which I doubt since my old DMA2100s work fine off the same switch as my stuttery echo).
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post #3987 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:36 PM
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Has anyone programmed the Echo to work with a Logitech Harmony Remote yet? .

Select a WMC profile. The device uses the same RC-6 protocol.
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post #3988 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

both devices require line of sight for the remote to work. so hiding either is a 50/50 proposition

My TV has an IR repeater port, I would assume many newer units would have this built in beings mine is probably around 4 years old now. My Echo is on a rack in a closet, out of site out of mind....Wife Approved still after a week.

So isn't mine. Right next to an XBOX360.

In search of video bliss...
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post #3989 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:42 PM
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I fixed it for you.

At least color code it copycat.

A person can also use passive redirection.
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post #3990 of 7721 Old 12-05-2012, 01:51 PM
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So what! That Would work on an Xbox as well. So your position is what? I can pay more to get a feature that is free via Xbox. Ever hear of Xbox smartglass?
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/4/3062660/microsoft-xbox-smart-glass-app
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/smartglass

Well. You said:
Quote:
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The ability to hide or place behind isn't that relative due to both requiring an RF extender to place behind anything. .

I'm just saying that isn't true.

I can be a little clearer and say that its difficult to put an xbox behind a tv mounted to the wall and have it be appealing.

I think you just want to argue.
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