Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 160 - AVS Forum
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post #4771 of 7721 Old 01-02-2013, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Xenethyl View Post

Is anyone else having consistent audio sync issues? On some channels (Food Network and HGTV, for example), the audio appears to be perfectly in sync with the video. On other channels and recordings (CBS and Discovery, for example), there's enough of a synchronization issue that I can notice dialogue not matching lip movement. I'm running the latest stable FW and adjusting the video resolution and audio bitstreaming settings don't have any effect.
I've seen a few posts here and there mentioning this, but wanted to know if anyone else is consistently seeing this. Unfortunately I don't have a 360 so I can't test any other extenders (hopefully this isn't expected for WMC extenders).

I would check using alternative equipements to verify if the audio sync problem is actually from the source. I have seen many channels with bad audio sync problems previously on my cable boxes (when I still own them). So, I wouldn't automatically blame any extenders for such problem. Channels with a lot of documentaries typically are really bad at this because most of their shows don't need lipsync (commentaries only) and they are really bad at it when it is needed.
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post #4772 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by BlaZeR2 View Post

I have seen this issue as well. However, when I use the "native" setting, there is no lip sync issues. When I used 1080p, i see horrible lip sync issues on certain channels. It is not like this with my Xbox 360.

Unfortunately the native setting doesn't appear to fix the issue for me.

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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

I would check using alternative equipements to verify if the audio sync problem is actually from the source. I have seen many channels with bad audio sync problems previously on my cable boxes (when I still own them). So, I wouldn't automatically blame any extenders for such problem. Channels with a lot of documentaries typically are really bad at this because most of their shows don't need lipsync (commentaries only) and they are really bad at it when it is needed.

I can confirm that these channels and recordings from the channels have perfect audio/video synchronization when viewed from the host PC, so it's definitely an issue being introduced via the Echo. I suppose the culprit could also be something in my living room setup, but I'm hesitant to point the finger there. I'll try running the audio through my receiver first instead of passing it through my TV just to rule it out, though.
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post #4773 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Xenethyl View Post

I'll try running the audio through my receiver first instead of passing it through my TV just to rule it out, though.
My Samsung TV has an audio delay setting. Might want to check to see if your TV has that.
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post #4774 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Maybe MCE Standby Tool on the HTPC will do what you want. I haven't tried it but I heard it works with Win7. You might need to reboot the Echo when the PC wakes up again.
"Suspend when Media Center is running and no user input (on)
This option will suspend the system when there is no user input detected (keyboard, mouse or remote activity) for a period of time. Typical example scenarios are: the TV/monitor is switched off but the media centre isn't, the user has fell asleep or left the room and forgot to switch off the media center."

Excellent, thanks for the advice, i will try that tonight.
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post #4775 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 08:41 AM
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I know it was asked long ago on here (I think before the beta shipping even started), but has anyone had any success with IR repeating, in order to hide the Echo?

I'm thinking of getting one of these, assuming the Echo's USB port can power it, and the frequency range is correct:

http://www.irblaster.info/usb_ir_repeater.html

Thanks to Ceton for all of the big improvements so far. Is it done yet? Of course not. But we've got something useful enough that's worth not returning, and waiting out further improvements.
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post #4776 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

I know it was asked long ago on here (I think before the beta shipping even started), but has anyone had any success with IR repeating, in order to hide the Echo?
I'm thinking of getting one of these, assuming the Echo's USB port can power it, and the frequency range is correct:
http://www.irblaster.info/usb_ir_repeater.html
Thanks to Ceton for all of the big improvements so far. Is it done yet? Of course not. But we've got something useful enough that's worth not returning, and waiting out further improvements.

There is no need for IR repeater. I believe Echo supports USB IR receiver directly.
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post #4777 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 12:07 PM
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even easier, have you tried aiming the echo up? I have a sage extender mounted behind a tv and the remote works fine just from the ir bounce off the ceiling.
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post #4778 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 12:26 PM
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I will give that a try, but I also ordered an IR repeater from Amazon (that has its own power).

The USB receiver does not make sense to me - how could you turn the device on, from fully off, through a receiver attached to an unpowered USB port? Maybe if the port is constantly powered (even when the Echo is off), and -if- the Echo supported the particular receiver ... but those are two really big ifs. It does not seem like something that would be supported at this stage of its infancy.
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post #4779 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 12:32 PM
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The USB and IR circuitry are always powered on the echo.

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post #4780 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

It does not seem like something that would be supported at this stage of its infancy.

Believe it or not, this is supported since early betas.
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post #4781 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 01:17 PM
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Have you checked your TV to see if it has an IR repeater port built in? Then all you would have to do is get something like this...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882196166&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-NA-_-NA&gclid=CNmpkoWOzbQCFYVFMgodJnoAqA


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post #4782 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 01:37 PM
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All good info. Just got this TV, will have to check it out.

Also this, from a support ticket to Ceton inquiring the same:

”We have not tested a USB receiver with the Echo, so we're unable to confirm whether or not it would work.”
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post #4783 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 01:38 PM
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It's Ceton planning on adding HDMI CEC? Then all this IR repeater talk would be moot. I think you should just wait a bit before settling on some half baked solution.


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post #4784 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

It's Ceton planning on adding HDMI CEC? Then all this IR repeater talk would be moot. I think you should just wait a bit before settling on some half baked solution.

Not that simple. Other than On/OFF CEC commands, the rest are perpritary to each manufacuturers (Panasonic's VieraLink, Samsung's AnyNet+ etc.). Echo has to be able to identify which brand of the TV it is connected to and switch to the profile of that brand's protocol. Even with that, you probably won't get thos WMC specific remote commands.
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post #4785 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 02:38 PM
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I don't think it's that bad. HDMI CEC has plenty of standard commands that should be properly mapped to the right CEC bytel inside the TV. Echo shouldn't be concerned with any of that detail. It just sees a play command, for example, over HDMI. It doesn't know and doesn't care what brand of tv it came from. My sony tv remote has no problems controlling my panasonic blu-ray player over HDMI. Menus, arrows, transport keys all work fine. True you'd be missing some commands, but you could get by with just numbers, deck controls (transport buttons), menu and arrows. See the very last page of THIS CEC spec.


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post #4786 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 03:10 PM
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Without Live TV and WMC commands, it won't be very useful for most who use it for TV viewing. It is nice to have but can't replace IR commands.
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post #4787 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Not that simple. Other than On/OFF CEC commands, the rest are perpritary to each manufacuturers (Panasonic's VieraLink, Samsung's AnyNet+ etc.). Echo has to be able to identify which brand of the TV it is connected to and switch to the profile of that brand's protocol. Even with that, you probably won't get thos WMC specific remote commands.

There is a standard set of commands(on/off, d-pad, and some others). It wouldn't be able to do things like launch to RecTV, LiveTV, etc. but the basic stuff will work fine with minimal effort.

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post #4788 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

My Samsung TV has an audio delay setting. Might want to check to see if your TV has that.

Good idea. I checked and my TV (an LG) does have an option for audio delay, but it was turned off. I tried playing with it and got mixed results ranging from better to worse, but nothing completely synchronized the audio with the video.

However, I did try running the audio directly from the Echo to my receiver via optical out and that seems to have fixed everything. So, for anyone else having audio synchronization issues, try setting your Echo to the native video setting and run your audio directly into a receiver to eliminate the possibility of TV-induced lag.

Also, for what it's worth, I have my Echo hooked up to my network via a Netgear WN2500RP (a WiFi extender) because my apartment layout doesn't allow for clean wiring from my router to the living area. It's far exceeding my expectations and I've only run into a network issue a couple times (typically after aggressively time shifting tens of times to test lip-sync).

My first Echo was a DOA brick that I returned for a refund. After seeing Ceton's dedication and the improvements everyone was posting about here, I decided to give them another shot. I'm really glad I did because this is literally my ideal, perfect TV/DVR setup.
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post #4789 of 7721 Old 01-03-2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by d3rang3d View Post

Is anyone aware of a possible beta coming for Windows8 support? If so, how can I participate?
Unfortunately, I upgraded my HTPC to Win8 and effectively bricked my Echo since there's no support for it.
Yes, I know...I should have read more before doing the upgrade as there's been much discussion about the lack of Win8 support. Frankly, I guess I just got caught up in the fog of the holidays and that important fact slipped my mind until I was committed to the upgrade...my bad. My machine doubles as a HTPC so I have other reasons to move to Win8. FWIW, I was very critical of Win8 on a non-touchscreen device but, with the Start8 app, I now like it much better than Win7.
I'm aware of the Companion app but I'm not really interested in that as a solution since I don't want to have to use a tablet or phone to control the TV in the bedroom (WAF). Based on the vagueness of the official releases, it sounds like Microsoft may not be cooperating and/or Win8 support is not a priority for the first half of 2013 due to all the other issues being worked. If Win8 support is never coming or it will be several months down the road, that would probably be good to know so I can just bite the bullet and move back to a XBOX solution now...
I'd appreciate any info anyone can share on this topic.
Thanks,
D3

I am interestedi in any info anyone has on this as well. Thanks!
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post #4790 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

There is a standard set of commands(on/off, d-pad, and some others). It wouldn't be able to do things like launch to RecTV, LiveTV, etc. but the basic stuff will work fine with minimal effort.
You wouldn't have buttons for those directly, but you can still perform all those functions (live, recorded, etc.) through the menus using the arrow keys. It would be less convenient and require more steps, but not impossible. Beats having to kludge together an IR repeater IMO. Of course the simplest solution is to just keep the Echo line of sight. Using reflective surfaces, as someone mentioned earlier, is another simple solution.

I may be getting an Echo sooner than I'd planned since one of my Xbox's power supply fans now sounds like a 747. I even took it apart to clean and lubricate, but it didn't make much difference. mad.gif


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post #4791 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

You wouldn't have buttons for those directly, but you can still perform all those functions (live, recorded, etc.) through the menus using the arrow keys. It would be less convenient and require more steps, but not impossible.

Absolutely. I never use the direct buttons anyway.

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post #4792 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dabretty View Post

I know it was asked long ago on here (I think before the beta shipping even started), but has anyone had any success with IR repeating, in order to hide the Echo?
I'm thinking of getting one of these, assuming the Echo's USB port can power it, and the frequency range is correct:
http://www.irblaster.info/usb_ir_repeater.html
Thanks to Ceton for all of the big improvements so far. Is it done yet? Of course not. But we've got something useful enough that's worth not returning, and waiting out further improvements.

I've tried using an el cheapo IR extender with mixed success. It kinda works, but I need to reflect the signal off of something, otherwise there seems to be too much signal or some weird interference.
Just plugging in a Microsoft IR receiver and thinking it will pick up the signal doesn't work either, so I'm pretty sure that the Echo does not have drivers for IR receivers.

The only thing that reliably works for us remotely is the Ceton companion from our phones. Android and IOS.
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post #4793 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by stst View Post

Just plugging in a Microsoft IR receiver and thinking it will pick up the signal doesn't work either, so I'm pretty sure that the Echo does not have drivers for IR receivers.

this has already been stated to work. it was implemented almost from day one.
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post #4794 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stst View Post

I've tried using an el cheapo IR extender with mixed success. It kinda works, but I need to reflect the signal off of something, otherwise there seems to be too much signal or some weird interference.
Just plugging in a Microsoft IR receiver and thinking it will pick up the signal doesn't work either, so I'm pretty sure that the Echo does not have drivers for IR receivers.
The only thing that reliably works for us remotely is the Ceton companion from our phones. Android and IOS.

My Harmony 900 works fine with the RF to IR repeater in front of the echo and my Rosewill MCE remote works well too.

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post #4795 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stst View Post

I've tried using an el cheapo IR extender with mixed success. It kinda works, but I need to reflect the signal off of something, otherwise there seems to be too much signal or some weird interference.
Just plugging in a Microsoft IR receiver and thinking it will pick up the signal doesn't work either, so I'm pretty sure that the Echo does not have drivers for IR receivers.
The only thing that reliably works for us remotely is the Ceton companion from our phones. Android and IOS.

Echo supports any official WMC IR receiver (eg one that shows up as an eHome unit).

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #4796 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by stst View Post

Just plugging in a Microsoft IR receiver and thinking it will pick up the signal doesn't work either, so I'm pretty sure that the Echo does not have drivers for IR receivers.
The only thing that reliably works for us remotely is the Ceton companion from our phones. Android and IOS.

I have a Ortek remote and USB IR receiver. I tried plugging the IR receiver in the Echo and it worked with the Ortek remote for nearly every command except for some essential ones like play/pause and stop. The shortcut buttons to launch the guide and recorded TV, fast forward and rewind, up/down/left/right, OK, and the number buttons all worked fine. It has a 16 position mouse control "button" but that works great in Media Center on the PC but it didn't do anything on the Echo. This remote doesn't use the standard MS codes so the Echo must have some drivers.
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post #4797 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 03:27 PM
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From my limited research on Amazon yesterday, there are two types IR remotes: one that shows up on PC as USB keyboard and mouse and one that is MCE compatible IR receiver/remote.The first category is to be avoided because there is no MCE specific keys and probably won't work with WMC remotes. But the later ones are typically more expensive ($30 average vs $5) and works with any WMC remotes.
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post #4798 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

I have a Ortek remote and USB IR receiver. I tried plugging the IR receiver in the Echo and it worked with the Ortek remote for nearly every command except for some essential ones like play/pause and stop. The shortcut buttons to launch the guide and recorded TV, fast forward and rewind, up/down/left/right, OK, and the number buttons all worked fine. It has a 16 position mouse control "button" but that works great in Media Center on the PC but it didn't do anything on the Echo. This remote doesn't use the standard MS codes so the Echo must have some drivers.
This is not an official WMC remote. It's protocol differs from official remotes, an its unlikely we will support it in the future as the remote is at fault.

There's a reason I said an official WMC remote:D

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post #4799 of 7721 Old 01-04-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

This is not an official WMC remote. It's protocol differs from official remotes, an its unlikely we will support it in the future as the remote is at fault.
There's a reason I said an official WMC remote:D
Looking back at my post I can see how it looks like I might be asking for help or that I have a complaint. I only use the Ortek remote on the HTPC and I have a Harmony for the Echo. I'm not having any trouble with either remote. Others were talking about IR repeaters and receivers so I got curious to see if the Ortek receiver and remote would work on the Echo.
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post #4800 of 7721 Old 01-05-2013, 05:06 AM
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So I've been sitting on the sideline watching for a couple months. I thought at this time I saw enough maturation from the product that I would jump in. So my Echo showed up last night and I proceeded to hook it up to my bedroom TV. The Ceton logo pops up.....and never goes away until about 10 minutes later when the Echo stopped giving an HDMI output to the TV. So I rebooted it and it did the same thing...over and over. Also each time the HDMI dropped out I noticed 3 of the LEDS on the left would light up as the minutes went by, one at a time. It was about this time that my stepson started having issues with his XBox in the basement where he couldn't connect to XBove Live anymore over the internet. I also noticed my HTPC in the living room and my HD Homerun Primes were no longer accessible. Long story short, after rebooting my Router and my switches I finally got the wired network back up and running. I also noticed that the lights on my switch never light up from the Echo being connected to ethernet. So I figured my Echo was bricked at that point. I brought it down to my home PC, plugged in the power, ethernet and HDMI to my PC monitor and started it up. It powered up and said recovering...and that's where it sat for over an hour. Again, no ethernet light on my router whatsoever for the Echo. So I tried punching in "recovery" on the remote to start the manual recovery process, it shows the 6 LED's on the front of the unit and they never go away. I let it sit all night like that, nothing. So I rebooted it this morning and after a minute or so the CETON logo came on the monitor and then back off and the 3 little LEDs lit again.

So I think it's dead, should I open a ticket? When these things are bricked does the ethernet stop working completely? Is that the reason for the USB connection recovery process? I have to also assume that the Echo was the reason for my network lock up, I never have issues with my network, it's pretty rock solid.
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