Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 196 - AVS Forum
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post #5851 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Win8? Meh.

It is a $100 add on now for WMC in Win8.
That's not exactly an accurate statement. It's a $9.99 add on if you have Windows 8 Professional, $99.99 if running Windows 8 (not Professional). If the extra features of Windows 8 aren't of interest, then the upgrade cost just to get WMC is a bit steep as you're forced to go to Professional to get it, but it's not fair to say that WMC is a $99.99 extra.
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I'll stick with my tried and true Win7. I'm pretty sure the installed base of Win8 will never reach that of Win7 because of lackluster PC sales as people switch to tablets and such. PC's running Win7 are pretty darn reliable and people don't even see a need to upgrade.
Sticking with Windows 7 indefinitely isn't a realistic proposition. Sooner or later, just about everyone will want or need to upgrade to a newer version of Windows. Even if we assume that Windows 8 will ultimately have the market penetration and success that Windows Vista had and that Windows 9 (or whatever they call it) will be the next worthwhile upgrade, it's probably safe to assume that the Echo won't work with anything beyond Windows 7 unless Ceton is able to get it to work with Windows 8. I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to have serious reservations about purchasing the Echo when it won't work on the current shipping version of Windows, knowing full well that it will only work on what is now the previous version.
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post #5852 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 11:55 AM
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A couple things here. For me, I have a few Win7 licenses still. I'm not really seeing an issue with Win7 until maybe 4k gets here with TV's in the $1000 ~ $2000 range so I'm good for the usable life span of the echo as it is. I suppose in about 4 or 5 years I'll be looking to retool everything and at that time there will most likely be some alternative to the echo too.

Another thing about thinking Win8 is the off OS and Win9 or WinWhatever is the next big one... I just don't think it will matter. The installed base of anything going forward beyond Win7 is going to be muted by more people using tablets and the like.

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post #5853 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

A couple things here. For me, I have a few Win7 licenses still. I'm not really seeing an issue with Win7 until maybe 4k gets here with TV's in the $1000 ~ $2000 range so I'm good for the usable life span of the echo as it is. I suppose in about 4 or 5 years I'll be looking to retool everything and at that time there will most likely be some alternative to the echo too.[snip]
What troubles me is that upgrading the CPU in the future will break the DRM for any recordings (made from TV) done with the prior CPU. Plus, if I understand it correctly, upgrading the OS similarly breaks the DRM for any recordings done with the prior OS. Typically, when I upgrade a computer, I time my hardware and OS upgrades together, to some extent. Since Windows 98, I've upgraded to XP and then to Windows 7 (skipping the ones in between), and upgrading the hardware once or twice for each OS. DRM issues have not been a problem up to now, since I only built a dedicated HTPC and acquired a CableCard tuner this past autumn (in contemplation of getting the Echo and dumping the Scientific Atlanta cable/DVR boxes).

I shudder to think of the impact on WAF if I did a hardware or OS upgrade on the HTPC that affected previously-recorded TV shows. And in the words of an Isaac Hayes and David Porter, "when something is wrong with my baby, something is wrong with me."

--Dean L. Surkin
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post #5854 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
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Same thing happens whenever the CableCo replaces the DVR. The recordings are locked to it. But in WMC if the recordings are flagged copy freely you can still have at them because only the copy once material is effected by a hardware change.

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post #5855 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 02:19 PM
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I never understood why people keep recorded TV for years as some are suggesting. Why not just get the DVD/Blu-Ray?

Edit: not asking about the wives FYI.....I know not to ask for an answer in that regard smile.gif
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post #5856 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

I never understood why people keep recorded TV for years as some are suggesting. Why not just get the DVD/Blu-Ray?

I don't keep stuff for years, but some shows I much prefer to watch in a much more compressed time than weekly. So for some shows I build up a whole season, and then watch the whole thing in a week or two.

When I move between devices(cable co->Tivo->HTPC for me), I just keep them both in service until everything has been watched. Usually takes about 3 months for us.

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post #5857 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 02:32 PM
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I never understood why people keep recorded TV for years as some are suggesting. Why not just get the DVD/Blu-Ray?
I'd just end up ripping that to HDD too. wink.gif
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post #5858 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 03:03 PM
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Yeah, not too concerned about saving recordings either as there's other ways to access the material if need be. As it is I have a 1TB drive with recordings I haven't had time to see falling off there all the time.

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post #5859 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

I submitted a support ticket last night to return the Echo, but I wasn't sure what to say in the request. Does anyone know what information they need to process the return? ...

Any follow up to that?

I am about to follow suit, I don't see the point when the xbox has it beat hands down.

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post #5860 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 05:47 PM
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Any follow up to that?

I am about to follow suit, I don't see the point when the xbox has it beat hands down.

Yeah, they were great. Submit a ticket, and in the message details be sure to include your return shipping address and your phone number. I included my Echo order number from the beta too, though I don't know if they needed it. They might ask you to confirm some of that information after they transfer your ticket to the returns department, but they were very quick about processing my RMA request.

Also, be sure to explain why you're looking for a refund. If you just ask for a refund without explaining why they might come back and ask why, to see if its a problem they can work through. It sounds like some people that had firmware update problems would simply send an email looking for an exchange and/or refund without understanding that those issues could usually be resolved.
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post #5861 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 06:13 PM
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Using my echo right now. Not putting an Xbox on the kitchen counter. I'll probably Velcro the echo to the back of the TV eventually..

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post #5862 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

That's not exactly an accurate statement. It's a $9.99 add on if you have Windows 8 Professional, $99.99 if running Windows 8 (not Professional). If the extra features of Windows 8 aren't of interest, then the upgrade cost just to get WMC is a bit steep as you're forced to go to Professional to get it, but it's not fair to say that WMC is a $99.99 extra.
Sticking with Windows 7 indefinitely isn't a realistic proposition. Sooner or later, just about everyone will want or need to upgrade to a newer version of Windows. Even if we assume that Windows 8 will ultimately have the market penetration and success that Windows Vista had and that Windows 9 (or whatever they call it) will be the next worthwhile upgrade, it's probably safe to assume that the Echo won't work with anything beyond Windows 7 unless Ceton is able to get it to work with Windows 8. I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to have serious reservations about purchasing the Echo when it won't work on the current shipping version of Windows, knowing full well that it will only work on what is now the previous version.

Agree with that.

Not supporting Windows 8 for users is a dead end.
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post #5863 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 07:29 PM
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... Not putting an Xbox on the kitchen counter. ...

I am with you on that one.

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post #5864 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 08:07 PM
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Any follow up to that?

I am about to follow suit, I don't see the point when the xbox has it beat hands down.

I'm going to return mine soon too. My HTPC runs windows 8, and I been waiting forever for some progress, or even a little communication on their part. I already own an Xbox 360, and I can't see spending $160 for what little echo does. I'd rather put that money towards the next xbox, at least it will work with windows 8, and maybe it will be a lot quieter than the current xbox.
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post #5865 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 08:12 PM
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Is TV in the kitchen a big driver for HTPC?
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post #5866 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Using my echo right now. Not putting an Xbox on the kitchen counter. I'll probably Velcro the echo to the back of the TV eventually..

Is TV in the kitchen a big driver for HTPC?
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post #5867 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 08:38 PM
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Is TV in the kitchen a big driver for HTPC?

I have an Xbox 360 Extender six feet away from the t.v. in the kitchen/living room, family loves having access to the DVR, HD t.v., music and the growing t.v. series/movie collection.wink.gif
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post #5868 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 08:46 PM
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Yeah, not too concerned about saving recordings either as there's other ways to access the material if need be. As it is I have a 1TB drive with recordings I haven't had time to see falling off there all the time.

Other ways to access TV?

How convenient is that?
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post #5869 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 08:50 PM
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Cable STB/DVR replacement in the kitchen... saves $25/month and it is very small and low power. I think charter's box is even bigger than an Xbox.

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post #5870 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 08:53 PM
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Cable STB/DVR replacement in the kitchen... saves $25/month and it is very small and low power. I think charter's box is even bigger than an Xbox.

lol TV in the kitchen
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post #5871 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 09:03 PM
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Yup. People that own houses and actually cook food watch TV in the kitchen.

People who live in their parent's basement eating whopers and fries don't have kitchens because they don't have houses.
rc05, th3Pil0t and CorporateASH like this.

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post #5872 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Yup. People that own houses and actually cook food watch TV in the kitchen.

People who live in their parent's basement eating whopers and fries don't have kitchens because they don't have houses.

Don't make unfair generalizations. Some of us who own houses still eat Whoppers and fries in the basement... biggrin.gif
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post #5873 of 7721 Old 02-15-2013, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Yup. People that own houses and actually cook food watch TV in the kitchen.

People who live in their parent's basement eating whopers and fries don't have kitchens because they don't have houses.
My parents have a TV in their kitchen. My mom likes to watch TV while she's cooking and doing other things like her craft work. So yeah, it's not exactly unheard of for people to have a TV in the kitchen. In most cases, it's obviously not going to be the primary / biggest TV in the house, but it's no less valid than having a TV in any other room.
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Don't make unfair generalizations. Some of us who own houses still eat Whoppers and fries in the basement... biggrin.gif
LOL
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post #5874 of 7721 Old 02-16-2013, 05:49 AM
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Cable STB/DVR replacement in the kitchen... saves $25/month and it is very small and low power. I think charter's box is even bigger than an Xbox.

What size is this TV? Being in a kitchen I couldn't imagine anything over a 20" and, hell, I'd just plug that into a coax outlet and forget any kind of Echo/Cable box.

But thats me...
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post #5875 of 7721 Old 02-16-2013, 06:08 AM
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What size is this TV? Being in a kitchen I couldn't imagine anything over a 20" and, hell, I'd just plug that into a coax outlet and forget any kind of Echo/Cable box.

But thats me...

Been there, done that. The number of Clear QAM channels available is appalling and only going to get worse. Plus, you cannot get the Cooking Channel this way. tongue.gif (or any of the sports package either) It is a 19" LED.

I will most likely get another echo if it can be made to playback local content better, even if that requires a dual boot into android or some solution like that. Frankly, there's not a whole lot of TV's in my house, meaning only one more needs an echo but the cable STB savings there becomes only $5/month making the cost a little harder to justify.

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post #5876 of 7721 Old 02-16-2013, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

Don't make unfair generalizations. Some of us who own houses still eat Whoppers and fries in the basement... biggrin.gif

I suppose some people have their HT in the basement too.

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post #5877 of 7721 Old 02-16-2013, 06:15 AM
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... I'd rather put that money towards the next xbox, at least it will work with windows 8, and maybe it will be a lot quieter than the current xbox.

The 4GB slim is dead silent, there is only a low speed larger fan through the top. It makes the noise level disapear. I have an older elite and the slim and they are night and day in sound.

The biggest downside to the 360 is you need a live account to get the media update for local content in most cases. I had to switch to the family pack, so that's $100/yr. But if your a gamer you can sort of justify that.

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post #5878 of 7721 Old 02-16-2013, 06:20 AM
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Yup. People that own houses and actually cook food watch TV in the kitchen. ....

Yup, I have a wine cabinet I conveted into a 19" WS tv/touch screen. I still use sagetv there, but it's on all of the time. It's also used for the HA and internet. I would say that TV is verty important to us. Right with you on that one Sammy2.

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post #5879 of 7721 Old 02-16-2013, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

I'd rather put that money towards the next xbox, at least it will work with windows 8, and maybe it will be a lot quieter than the current xbox.

The 4GB slim is dead silent, there is only a low speed larger fan through the top. It makes the noise level disapear. I have an older elite and the slim and they are night and day in sound.

Now that makes sense.
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post #5880 of 7721 Old 02-16-2013, 07:08 AM
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The 4GB slim is dead silent, there is only a low speed larger fan through the top. It makes the noise level disapear. I have an older elite and the slim and they are night and day in sound.

I'm wondering now if I got the shaft with my slim. The slim itself is silent, but the power brick is significantly loud (due to the inclusion of a fan in it). We have this in our master bedroom, and the fan in the power brick is mildly annoying when the tv volume is low. My experience with my old elite was that the power brick was silent (no fan) but that the elite unit itself was extremely loud. It was still and improvement going to the slim, but my experience has been far from silent.

Ceton's silence is - I think - very telling right now. Obviously there's a lot of discontent in these forums, calls for another update to their blog (which was updated quite a bit before) ... and we get nothing but silence? To me, that's an "oh sh##" response. Like they're sweating it as this return window closes, and they're counting the inlays and rapidly growing outlays. If I'm wrong, well, now might be the time to say something Ceton.
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