Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 202 - AVS Forum
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post #6031 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by huskerpat View Post

I've read thru as much of the thread as I can, but it's a lot to catch up on. does the device work properly, as an extender, for watching tv and dvr functions? I'm not worried about file access or streaming content, just live tv and dvr.

I guess theat depends on whether you consider the quality of video it ouptuts in the equation. The standard for video display out an extnder was set years ago by the Sage HD 300. Look at the video output of something like a Panasonic BDT -220. That is a $100 BD Player. It puts out absolutely pristing perfectly deinterlaced and scaled video comparable to what a $3K Radience Video Processor can do. The additional cost of first class video output is vitrually zero on a BOM today. To deliver a device to the market in q4 2012 at the price point that is as poor as it was and to a great extent still is, is simply inexcusable.

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post #6032 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Your not serious are you eek.gif . I supposed the missing DTS support they touted and announced, which has yet to be delivered, was a screwing by DTS? Is Ceton accountable for any of the undelivered scope in your eyes?

You realize that Microsoft came out to the public after Win8 was released and then told everyone, "Oh, by the way, the only extender that will be supported on Windows 8 will be the XBox 360. What, like you're surprised?" While Ceton was communicating, they seemed just as surprised as everyone else, jumped on it pretty quickly, and claimed to be working with MS to make it work. Later, they came out and said (in a very diplomatic way) that Microsoft had restricted extender functionality to the 360. The way it was stated seemed like a thinly veiled, "Sorry, everyone. We tried." I really feel like people need to cut them some slack here and do some research on the history of this subject before trying to light up Ceton on this one.
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post #6033 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

Good lord. You need to find another provider. If they are wanting to charge you $30/month for a simple STB they are taking you to the woodshed and bending you over...

It is Charter and it is $5/mo per STB (times 2) and $20/mo for "DVR Fees" or taxes. That said, how do you really get another provider. The option is Dish/Direct or Uverse and they all cost basically the same.

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post #6034 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Your not serious are you eek.gif . I supposed the missing DTS support they touted and announced, which has yet to be delivered, was a screwing by DTS? Is Ceton accountable for any of the undelivered scope in your eyes?

They announced dts long ago but that never appeared in the specifications either. IDK because I don't have one but does the Xbox support dts?

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post #6035 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I guess theat depends on whether you consider the quality of video it ouptuts in the equation. The standard for video display out an extnder was set years ago by the Sage HD 300. Look at the video output of something like a Panasonic BDT -220. That is a $100 BD Player. It puts out absolutely pristing perfectly deinterlaced and scaled video comparable to what a $3K Radience Video Processor can do. The additional cost of first class video output is vitrually zero on a BOM today. To deliver a device to the market in q4 2012 at the price point that is as poor as it was and to a great extent still is, is simply inexcusable.

When my echo was in my HT it output a picture every bit as good as my HTPC with an nVidia GT 430.

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post #6036 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

It is Charter and it is $5/mo per STB (times 2) and $20/mo for "DVR Fees" or taxes. That said, how do you really get another provider. The option is Dish/Direct or Uverse and they all cost basically the same.

Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that each Echo was saving you $30/month.

I think the savings of using your own equipment vs using the Cable Co.'s have been done to death but I doubt any of us "save" anything by the time you add in time, hardware, electricity usage, etc... of building out HTPC servers. But hell, we do it for the fun anyway.
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post #6037 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by th3Pil0t View Post

Just updated to 2013.211.1642....doesn't appear to be a great deal of change...
Did it say what that update is supposed to fix?
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post #6038 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

Oh, I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that each Echo was saving you $30/month.

I think the savings of using your own equipment vs using the Cable Co.'s have been done to death but I doubt any of us "save" anything by the time you add in time, hardware, electricity usage, etc... of building out HTPC servers. But hell, we do it for the fun anyway.

My HTPC was really done to begin with because I was tired of lackluster performance of streamers available back in 2011. The good ones were about as much as a decent PC so I went that route. The cost of the PC doesn't figure into the equation only the tuner. I got the Prime for $135 shipped on a Woot deal and switched from Uverse to Charter. By doing that I got a $25/mo discount for 6 months which left $15 left over. If I wanted a STB with DVR functionality in another room it would be $25/mo more on my bill. I got the echo for $160 less $15 from above or $145. It will take about 4 more months to break even on it. If I were to get another it would take another 6 months to recoup that cost.

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post #6039 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Did it say what that update is supposed to fix?

Improved audio
stability

Samsung PN60F8500, Panasonic TH-42PD25U/P, Pioneer VSX-1018TXH-K, Oppo BDP-93, Aperion Audio 5T&5C, HSU STF-2, PS3, Wii, HTPC, SD Homerun Prime, Ceton Echo
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post #6040 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Did it say what that update is supposed to fix?

Not too much actually.

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=4291

2013.211.1642
Improved audio stability

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post #6041 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jasongolod View Post

Thanks Motz, yes that was a big issue.

Just checked the drivers and they are current.

When you say you checked the drivers, did you use Windows Update to do that? Windows Update likely showed you had drivers which were up-to-date. In my case, that was what it said. When I went to the MSI site, it showed drivers a year newer. When those were installed, it solved a problem I was having early on in the beta "experience".
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post #6042 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 05:01 PM
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Those of you following this thread since the beginning know that Ceton heavily implied that the Echo would have good media playback capabilities beyond just mpeg2 TV. At least, in response to a series of questions regarding media playback capabilities, Ceton responded that they would make sure "video content from *cough*popular internet sources*cough* plays properly." Based on the preceding discussion, there was a general understanding that somehow high bit-rate video in popular containers would work, and probably decent audio support (at least passthrough).

Perhaps it should have been more of a clear sign of trouble that Ceton again and again refused to comment on container support. It wasn't until right before the retail launch that they addressed that issue in the FAQ. Ceton has never, as far as I know, commented on bitrate limits or H.264 levels supported. Generally speaking, it should have been a safe bet that anything reasonable would play back, since the Echo's hardware is pretty beefy. But, it turns out, that wasn't a safe bet.

I think it was kind of sleazy for Ceton to egg people on into thinking media playback support was going to be decent. When they figured out it wasn't going to be they should have just fessed up to it. I'm sure Freescale is probably mostly to blame for the actual problems/limitations, but Ceton is the one with the product, so they're the ones that should have come clean on what their product was and wasn't going to do.

And I have a hard time thinking the whole Windows 8 thing came out of the blue. There were signs going well back into the Win8 beta that showed MS was making changes impacting backward compatibility. I also don't fully understand the issue. I thought it was just an RDP issue. MS moved to RDP 8.0 with Windows 8, which is how the UI is streamed to extenders. Can you use RDP 8.0 with WMC extenders? If so, RDP is mostly an open protocol, so Ceton could implement it. If WMC won't even use RDP 8 then there probably were signs of that a long time ago.

Side note: A particularly cynical interpretation of Ceton's "internet sources" statement actually suggests it was a moderately accurate statement. Pirated media, in general, is often much easier to play back than legitimately ripped media, like full-bitrate blu-ray rips. Still, in the context of other posts, Ceton's post was misleading.
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post #6043 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

Improved audio stability
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Not too much actually.
http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=4291
2013.211.1642
Improved audio stability

OK, thanks. Maybe I'll give that one a try. I got the helicopter audio problem again the other day.

I see Amazon has combo deals on the Echo.

Save $50.00 on Ceton InfiniTV 4 PCIe when you purchase 1 or more Ceton Echo offered by CETON.
Save $50.00 on Ceton InfiniTV 4 USB when you purchase 1 or more Ceton Echo offered by CETON.
Save $40.00 when you purchase 2 or more Ceton Echo offered by CETON.
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post #6044 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by CorporateASH View Post

You realize that Microsoft came out to the public after Win8 was released and then told everyone, "Oh, by the way, the only extender that will be supported on Windows 8 will be the XBox 360. What, like you're surprised?" While Ceton was communicating, they seemed just as surprised as everyone else, jumped on it pretty quickly, and claimed to be working with MS to make it work. Later, they came out and said (in a very diplomatic way) that Microsoft had restricted extender functionality to the 360. The way it was stated seemed like a thinly veiled, "Sorry, everyone. We tried." I really feel like people need to cut them some slack here and do some research on the history of this subject before trying to light up Ceton on this one.

I find it hard to believe based on the events that happened that Ceton wasn't counting on Win8 compatability. I'm sure they had every intention of delivering a device that would work with both Win7 and Win8. (that is after all what they originally described)

That being said, it was foolish of Ceton to either A) just assume it would work or B) Not get it in writing from Microsoft that it would.

I'm sure that Microsoft caught them off guard, no doubt about that. But I still fell that it is Ceton's fault, not MS's. You shouldn't move forward with a product based on an assumption, and you shouldn't move forward with a product without a written agreement for something like that.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #6045 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Haba View Post

... I know many of you aren't happy with your Echos but there is no need to take it out on Sammy2 or Ceton.....

I don't think anyone is taking it out on Sammy2, Sammy2 is just happy with his implementation of the echo. Truth be told, If it were my goal to have a kitchen TV powered by an extender and that was it, I would probably be happy as well, and not have sent it back. I would most likely be backing him up.

Someone else made a statment on another board close to this: "...I had really high hopes for the Echo, which may have led to unrealistic expectations." This may be the where the issues really lie.

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post #6046 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateASH View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Your not serious are you eek.gif . I supposed the missing DTS support they touted and announced, which has yet to be delivered, was a screwing by DTS? Is Ceton accountable for any of the undelivered scope in your eyes?

You realize that Microsoft came out to the public after Win8 was released and then told everyone, "Oh, by the way, the only extender that will be supported on Windows 8 will be the XBox 360. What, like you're surprised?" While Ceton was communicating, they seemed just as surprised as everyone else, jumped on it pretty quickly, and claimed to be working with MS to make it work. Later, they came out and said (in a very diplomatic way) that Microsoft had restricted extender functionality to the 360. The way it was stated seemed like a thinly veiled, "Sorry, everyone. We tried." I really feel like people need to cut them some slack here and do some research on the history of this subject before trying to light up Ceton on this one.

Your kidding right? They invested without doing the necessary diligence upfront. I am sure that when the public discovered versus when MS partners had knowledge definitely was not under the same timing. MS must have published a road map well in advance of WIN8 official release. This should have detailed architectural changes which would have made someone step back and say hmm. Why would any entity in its right mind invest in a platform which would could be obsolete weeks after a major product launch.

In search of video bliss...
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post #6047 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Your not serious are you eek.gif . I supposed the missing DTS support they touted and announced, which has yet to be delivered, was a screwing by DTS? Is Ceton accountable for any of the undelivered scope in your eyes?

They announced dts long ago but that never appeared in the specifications either. IDK because I don't have one but does the Xbox support dts?

MS has never put information out that it would. So the question isn't relevant.
However, someone did leak that information through many avenues on behalf of the "echo". You cant tout being the first and then not deliver.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/16/cetons-echo-extender-for-media-center-will-be-the-first-to-supp/

http://cetoncorp.com/2012/04/16/dts-and-ceton-announce-alliance-to-expand-into-the-connected-home-environment/

Edit: I guess if they eventually get it to work they could be first still.

In search of video bliss...
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post #6048 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

MS must have published a road map well in advance of WIN8 official release. This should have detailed architectural changes which would have made someone step back and say hmm.

If only Microsoft put out preview releases of Windows 8, letting hardware/software developers test for compatibility well in advance of the operating system's release. Oh wait...
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post #6049 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

... I used to think there was a problem with my network since I'd see the dreaded "Network Issue" message show up on occasion. What puzzled me is every time I'd run the Network Tuner after seeing the error message it would always pass with flying colors. I beefed up the NIC in my HTPC with an Intel PCI-e EXPI3901CTBLK card and transfer rates are better to and from my HTPC than any other PC in my house, yet I still got the message. I used to get this with other extenders from Linksys, X-Box, and HP so it is extremely perplexing to see this with the Echo after the changes I made. ...

These can be fixed by changing the checksum settings in the nic advanced setup. Google it, it's all over the MS KB articles.

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post #6050 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Roginator View Post

When you say you checked the drivers, did you use Windows Update to do that? Windows Update likely showed you had drivers which were up-to-date. In my case, that was what it said. When I went to the MSI site, it showed drivers a year newer. When those were installed, it solved a problem I was having early on in the beta "experience".

I went to the mfg's website. No dice
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post #6051 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

... I think that proper mkv playback is just around the corner BTW, so those of you that are returning it may miss out on that but maybe you'll buy another when that happens.

If that ever happens I'll by more then one. smile.gif

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post #6052 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

I don't think anyone is taking it out on Sammy2, Sammy2 is just happy with his implementation of the echo. Truth be told, If it were my goal to have a kitchen TV powered by an extender and that was it, I would probably be happy as well, and not have sent it back. I would most likely be backing him up.

Someone else made a statment on another board close to this: "...I had really high hopes for the Echo, which may have led to unrealistic expectations." This may be the where the issues really lie.

Actually I plan (planned?) on putting one in the "loft area where there's a 32" with a decent AVR and smaller speakers than the HT for use by guests that may want to watch something else I need a bit more out of it in the playback of locally stored media first though.

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post #6053 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

MS has never put information out that it would. So the question isn't relevant.
However, someone did leak that information through many avenues on behalf of the "echo". You cant tout being the first and then not deliver.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/16/cetons-echo-extender-for-media-center-will-be-the-first-to-supp/

http://cetoncorp.com/2012/04/16/dts-and-ceton-announce-alliance-to-expand-into-the-connected-home-environment/

Edit: I guess if they eventually get it to work they could be first still.

Maybe something went awry in contract negotiations but it would be nice if ceton would in fact speak to this.

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post #6054 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post

I find it hard to believe based on the events that happened that Ceton wasn't counting on Win8 compatability. I'm sure they had every intention of delivering a device that would work with both Win7 and Win8. (that is after all what they originally described)

That being said, it was foolish of Ceton to either A) just assume it would work or B) Not get it in writing from Microsoft that it would.

I'm sure that Microsoft caught them off guard, no doubt about that. But I still fell that it is Ceton's fault, not MS's. You shouldn't move forward with a product based on an assumption, and you shouldn't move forward with a product without a written agreement for something like that.

+1

Man, I really think the "big whigs" at Ceton will slap themselves in the head years down the road when they come to grips of what the Echo "could have been" and the mistakes they made with this product launch. The longer they take screwing around with the Echo the sooner another company will beat them to what we all really want. A fully equipped extender...
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post #6055 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

+1

Man, I really think the "big whigs" at Ceton will slap themselves in the head years down the road when they come to grips of what the Echo "could have been" and the mistakes they made with this product launch. The longer they take screwing around with the Echo the sooner another company will beat them to what we all really want. A fully equipped extender...

Who would that be? Nobody else is making one other than MS with the Xbox and ceton can't ever hope to compete with the likes of MS anyhow.

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post #6056 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Roginator View Post

When you say you checked the drivers, did you use Windows Update to do that? Windows Update likely showed you had drivers which were up-to-date. In my case, that was what it said. When I went to the MSI site, it showed drivers a year newer. When those were installed, it solved a problem I was having early on in the beta "experience".

what problem did the drivers solve?
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post #6057 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 07:06 PM
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Network connection issues.
Roginator likes this.

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post #6058 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

If only Microsoft put out preview releases of Windows 8, letting hardware/software developers test for compatibility well in advance of the operating system's release. Oh wait...

Media Center was not included in the previews.
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post #6059 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 07:47 PM
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Media Center was not included in the previews.
it is included and widely published how to enable it.
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post #6060 of 7721 Old 02-20-2013, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

it is included and widely published how to enable it.

I was misinformed and I stand corrected. I still have a consumer preview install on another system and if the key for enabling WMC in that still works, I may have to try pairing the version that comes with that install with the Echo and check the results for myself. Thank you for pointing out my mistake.
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