Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 03:36 PM
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They have already stated that it will be priced lower than the Xbox 360.
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post #92 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meoge View Post

They have already stated that it will be priced lower than the Xbox 360.

Exactly people need to watch the video they clearly state that, and that is GREAT news. I will be curious as to how they price the Q though.
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post #93 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by werd View Post

Exactly people need to watch the video they clearly state that, and that is GREAT news. I will be curious as to how they price the Q though.

That must be a new video. The original video listed on page 1 had NO pricing information and did not mention any other companies or products. It was soley a Look what we have coming and how pretty it is video..

That said I was very glad to hear about the pricing!!
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post #94 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 04:12 PM
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Here's the link to the Engadget HD Podcast

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/12/t...at-11-00pm-et/
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post #95 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 04:32 PM
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In case ceton is watching this thread, It would be great if the extender allows for IP control. The extender WILL be installed where av control systems will be used to control it, so allowing for IP control would make the integration easier and tighter. Microsoft would NEVER implement such a feature, but such a feature is one of the reasons DUNE is considered by many, the best media player!

Also some status feedback over the ip control would be nice. As far as I know there is no reliable method to get status for extenders, there are bugs in the existing media center front panel support that makes the status unreliable for extenders, and microsoft has indicated they have no interest in fixing the bugs.
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post #96 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boomhower View Post

At $500 this will be a failure. The market for the product is pretty niche as it is. 90% of those shopping for this device know full well that the xbox 360 has the same basic functionality. Most of those shoppers will already have a HTPC. It has to compete on the 360's price. I bet the amount they sell to HTPC owners vs. Q buyers will be significant, as long as it's priced right.

$300 for the Q and $150 for the extenders will be a hot combination but I do not expect the Q to be that cheap, at $500 with the BR capabilities is a fair price.

Q competes directly against TiVo. So I'd expect $500 or more. Echo competes against Xbox 360. Since you can routinely get Xbox 360 4GB for $150 or less, the Q needs to be priced around $100. Otherwise, its fate will be just like all other non-Xbox MCE Extenders.
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post #97 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 05:02 PM
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dheiskel,
They stated in the video I linked above that it will have IP control.

Foxbat121,
If the Echo can play more file formats than the 360 then I think it's worth at least as much. They say it will also have access to streaming services (I'm guessing things like Netflix and Amazon Prime). If that's true then you could access them without having a gold membership and without having to drop out of the media center interface. That alone is worth an extra $50 to me. Finally it'll be a low power instant on small fanless device.
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post #98 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 05:25 PM
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List of features I'm hoping this has (in order of personal importance). This is all, of course, assuming it acts as a full media center extender (IE, just like XB360; live TV, MediaBrowser interface, etc)

1) Media compatibility as good as MPC-HC (basically, can play anything you throw at it). Including full res MKVs with HD audio (BD rips)!
2) Instant boot (<5 sec from on button until MCE interface is up, this may require a constant connection to the host box, that's fine by me).
3) No fans
4) RF and IR capable (I hate IR remotes, but, for legacy sake, it should have both)
5) Ability to use standard commercial skipping applications

If it has all these features, I'd pay 500/ea and take 4 of them tomorrow.

MediaCenter+Ceton+MediaBrowser is the most drool worthy setup that money can buy today (well, maybe some of the custom CE stuff is on par, but it's 100X the cost and not nearly as flexible). Everyone (and I really mean that) who sees my setup has their jaw hit the floor; "how can I get this", "how much does this cost".. The answer is "you can't, because you need a full time tech support guy" and "not very much". Not too answers that customers like to hear put together in one sentence.

This will go a LONG way to making 7MC a real "consumer" application. If this thing can play any content and all you really have to do it setup 7MC and point it at files, almost anybody could do it. The disaster with HTPCs is always codecs. Same with XB360s. PCH media compatibility with 7MC would be a really, really big deal.

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post #99 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 05:30 PM
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I really want clarification on what exactly will be supported and not with the Q vs a WMC machine.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #100 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meoge View Post

Foxbat121,
If the Echo can play more file formats than the 360 then I think it's worth at least as much. They say it will also have access to streaming services (I'm guessing things like Netflix and Amazon Prime). If that's true then you could access them without having a gold membership and without having to drop out of the media center interface. That alone is worth an extra $50 to me. Finally it'll be a low power instant on small fanless device.

To most, the ability to play Xbox games in addition to be used as extender is a plus for XBox.

As for Netflix, not a draw anymore because in a typical Home Theatre setup, you will have HDTV that already has Netflix player and BD player that has Netflix player as well. Last thing I want is another Netflix player. Certainly not worth $50 more.

If Echo sells for $199 like you said, it will fail. Mark my word. Not sure if it is even possible to sell for $100 because of the license fee paid to Microsoft.
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post #101 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 06:05 PM
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Quote:


1) Media compatibility as good as MPC-HC (basically, can play anything you throw at it). Including full res MKVs with HD audio (BD rips)!

It's still an Extender...and tied down by what Microsoft tells it. Don't expect too much, it probably won't do anything different from the Xbox as far as the Extender experience goes.
Quote:


2) Instant boot (<5 sec from on button until MCE interface is up, this may require a constant connection to the host box, that's fine by me).

Possible...
Quote:


3) No fans

Possible...
Quote:


4) RF and IR capable (I hate IR remotes, but, for legacy sake, it should have both)

While nice to have....not really critical. If it has either/or, it should be fine.
Quote:


5) Ability to use standard commercial skipping applications

On an "Extender"???
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post #102 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post

It's still an Extender...and tied down by what Microsoft tells it. Don't expect too much, it probably won't do anything different from the Xbox as far as the Extender experience goes.

Eric from Ceton said it they expect it to play more than the Xbox can.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #103 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Eric from Ceton said it they expect it to play more than the Xbox can.

I saw that, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We don't know enough about the device yet, but if it's not just an extender and is a streamer as well (outside the Extender experience), that's a whole another story. If it's just an Extender....I fail to see how they can add anything that Microsoft's licensing does not allow.
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post #104 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post

I saw that, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We don't know enough about the device yet, but if it's not just an extender and is a streamer as well (outside the Extender experience), that's a whole another story. If it's just an Extender....I fail to see how they can add anything that Microsoft's licensing does not allow.

"Just" an extender that can play the popular file formats(mkv, mp4, etc) alone will make it a real winner when added ontop of the std extender experience of streaming live TV and recorded TV thru 7mc/MB
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post #105 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 08:31 PM
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So I'm assuming this will work with any cablecard device and not just a ceton. That would be a real bummer lol.
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post #106 of 7721 Old 01-13-2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I really want clarification on what exactly will be supported and not with the Q vs a WMC machine.

This. I'm confused on what a media center extender can/can not do by its native design. In other words, outside of adding additional file type support, could it be possible that these extenders actually support streaming services (like Netflix) within the same MCE interface WITH a Win7 machine (not the Q)?

None of the legacy extenders do this (x280n, DMA2100, 360) - I wasn't sure if this was a design limitation or if the market just didn't get a chance to fully mature before the extender market basically died. That is until the advent of the cablecard market within the past 2 years.
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post #107 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 04:17 AM - Thread Starter
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The dsm750 extender had capabilities outside of wmc like napster, rhapsody, etc. I also believe it could be set up with any upnp server software like the dsm320 and 520 to play audio/video/pictures. I thought the x280n did too but I don't know for sure.

That entire generation of devices was killed off before services like netflix and pandora becamee must haves

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post #108 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

Quote:


5) Ability to use standard commercial skipping applications

On an "Extender"???

what is so confusing about that? I currently do that on a daily bases with my sage HDx00 extenders...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjfink View Post

PCH media compatibility with 7MC would be a really, really big deal.

SageTV already did that... it is not anything new...

it is still unclear as to what artificial limitations will be placed upon Ceton by the 'powers that be' or if there will be any simple ways to unlock/bypass such limitations.

the only 2 new things echo seems to bring to the table are:
1) DRM support (not sure I care, but I can see how some would...)
2) Ceton hasn't been gobbled up by google (yet) (this is probably the most important point to some of us Sage users... ie Ceton still exists... and existence is good...)

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #109 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

As for Netflix, not a draw anymore because in a typical Home Theatre setup, you will have HDTV that already has Netflix player and BD player that has Netflix player as well. Last thing I want is another Netflix player. Certainly not worth $50 more.

you obviously have never experienced the joys of a unified UI/user experience...
most of us who have will never voluntarily go back to using X on TV, Y from HTPC, etc...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

If Echo sells for $199 like you said, it will fail. Mark my word. Not sure if it is even possible to sell for $100 because of the license fee paid to Microsoft.

define fail?
if it does at least what the Sage HD300 did, plus adds DRM'd CC streaming $299 would be a very reasonable price...

for example Sage HD300's went for $150 new, even though sage got gobbled up by google and has been a dead product for almost a year, there hasn't been a single HD300 sold on ebay for less than $300... people are willing to pay... if the product does what they want...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #110 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post

I saw that, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed. We don't know enough about the device yet, but if it's not just an extender and is a streamer as well (outside the Extender experience), that's a whole another story. If it's just an Extender....I fail to see how they can add anything that Microsoft's licensing does not allow.

It's clear from looking at the current WMC extenders the the extender protocol can support extenders with different codec capabilities (some extenders can't do H.264 for example). So that's an open question in my mind, is it the protocol that's limiting the 360 to crappy media support or is it just the 360's extender software.

Just as a matter of "logic" being an engineer type, it would make little sense for me for MS to have developed an extender protocol with artificial limitations on codecs and containers. It seem more likely that it's just that the 360's extender software sucks.

But it's wait and see at this point. I take Eric at his word that the Echo will support more formats than the 360 does. However after reading and watching the Engadget interview with Ceton, I'm somewhat lest optimistic about the Echo because it seems more likely that it will only support features beyond the 360 when used with the Q, which is a non-starter for me being a Dish subscriber.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #111 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dheiskel View Post

In case ceton is watching this thread, It would be great if the extender allows for IP control. The extender WILL be installed where av control systems will be used to control it, so allowing for IP control would make the integration easier and tighter. Microsoft would NEVER implement such a feature, but such a feature is one of the reasons DUNE is considered by many, the best media player!

+1 to that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dheiskel View Post

Also some status feedback over the ip control would be nice. As far as I know there is no reliable method to get status for extenders, there are bugs in the existing media center front panel support that makes the status unreliable for extenders, and microsoft has indicated they have no interest in fixing the bugs.

-1 for this...
"Some" just isn't good enough...
I already have complete feedback, I can ask my extenders what they are doing, what title they are playing, etc...
I can also ask the server what it is recording, what is coming up for recording, whats on the guide, etc...
I want complete full coverage feedback...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #112 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 07:10 AM
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Does anyone know if the extenders will have built in wireless? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere.
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post #113 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post


But it's wait and see at this point. I take Eric at his word that the Echo will support more formats than the 360 does. However after reading and watching the Engadget interview with Ceton, I'm somewhat lest optimistic about the Echo because it seems more likely that it will only support features beyond the 360 when used with the Q, which is a non-starter for me being a Dish subscriber.

But if the Q supports USB tuners such as the HD-PVR, you can switch to it. There's a lot of stuff that is unknown at this point.
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post #114 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

Does anyone know if the extenders will have built in wireless? I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere.

Wireless is not a good idea for live TV streaming (never work well). The added cost of dual-band wi-fi is what killed all the original extenders.

Echo comes with ethernet port and MOCA support. That's perfect combination for anyone who wants to watch TV on it.
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post #115 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 07:43 AM
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So ceton says this product will be limited if not paired with a Q? If this holds up that seems like an issue for me. Plenty of us here already have a ceton or other device in place. If they want to force us to get the Q to have all the features on the echo I will probably pass.
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post #116 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by meoge View Post

They have already stated that it will be priced lower than the Xbox 360.

So they could mean the basic 4GB 360 or the 250GB with Kinect version.

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post #117 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

But if the Q supports USB tuners such as the HD-PVR, you can switch to it. There's a lot of stuff that is unknown at this point.

I don't know if it was this thread or the InfiniTV one, but IIRC Eric implied that the Q would not because such configuration would be too difficult, would increase the complexity beyond what they are going for.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #118 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

you obviously have never experienced the joys of a unified UI/user experience...
most of us who have will never voluntarily go back to using X on TV, Y from HTPC, etc...

My experience with that is that usually suck. I used whatever is the best for that particular function.


Quote:


define fail?
if it does at least what the Sage HD300 did, plus adds DRM'd CC streaming $299 would be a very reasonable price...

Never heard, nor saw the Sage HD300 in any stores. That's the definition of fail.

Quote:


for example Sage HD300's went for $150 new, even though sage got gobbled up by google and has been a dead product for almost a year, there hasn't been a single HD300 sold on ebay for less than $300... people are willing to pay... if the product does what they want...

That means nothing. Ppl are still willing to pay $200+ for a used Linksys or Dlink MCE Extender on eBay. That doesn't mean those products are successful.

In order for a product to be successful, it has to attract mass audience, not just a few geeks.
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post #119 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

So ceton says this product will be limited if not paired with a Q? If this holds up that seems like an issue for me. Plenty of us here already have a ceton or other device in place. If they want to force us to get the Q to have all the features on the echo I will probably pass.

From what I understood, it would only be limited in things ceton itself is developing - for example the universal search they mentioned. I'm sure the echo as a standalone will work just like every other extender(with hopefully better format support). And once XBMC/Plex/MB or whatever you use can be added to it, sign me up!
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post #120 of 7721 Old 01-14-2012, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I don't know if it was this thread or the InfiniTV one, but IIRC Eric implied that the Q would not because such configuration would be too difficult, would increase the complexity beyond what they are going for.

I thought there is another thread specifically for Q. But anyway, Q is an embedded device, not an open platform like HTPC. It will only work the way it is designed to be. In many ways consider it just like TiVo or DVR box from your cable co. You maybe able to swap out the hard disk but that's about all you can do with it.
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