Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1171 of 7721 Old 08-17-2012, 07:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
erickotz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Clearly, you need to upgrade your motherboard. eek.gif

You could break out all your x16 lanes to x1 lines. Or use a PCIe switch. Or get USB ones

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
erickotz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1172 of 7721 Old 08-17-2012, 07:14 PM
Senior Member
 
mcturkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

You could break out all your x16 lanes to x1 lines. Or use a PCIe switch. Or get USB ones

So, why haven't you (Ceton) published a video yet of a Frankentuner setup with 40+ tuners available? C'mon, you know you want to...
mcturkey is offline  
post #1173 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 12:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
erickotz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,123
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

So, why haven't you (Ceton) published a video yet of a Frankentuner setup with 40+ tuners available? C'mon, you know you want to...
At one point, I did post a screenshot of me having something around 26 tuners (not cards, tuners) in WMC setup. WMC did not seem pleased with this configuration...it was moving very slowly. I didn't invest any real time in troubleshooting it.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
erickotz is offline  
post #1174 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 12:36 PM
Member
 
ImThat1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wait, I just looked at the Echo product page, and it says:

Network: 10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet, MoCA, DHCP or Static IP Address

But it also lists a MoCA adapter as an optional add-on. Does this mean the Echo has MoCA integrated, or not? I mean, it's not like it lists Powerline or WiFi in the network specs, despite the fact that they could be used with an adapter, implying that there is MoCA on-board. The fact that it lists MoCA both in the network specs and in the optional add-ons confuses me.
ImThat1Guy is offline  
post #1175 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 12:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,389
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Liked: 279
I assume you'll need a MoCA adapter on the sending end as well if you don't have a Q in order to be able to send A/V to the Echo's integrated MoCA.
mdavej is offline  
post #1176 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 12:57 PM
Member
 
ImThat1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

I assume you'll need a MoCA adapter on the sending end as well if you don't have a Q in order to be able to send A/V to the Echo's integrated MoCA.
Of course the base PC needs to be connected to MoCA for it to work, but do you think that's what it means by having a MoCA adapter? Let's see if Eric can answer.
ImThat1Guy is offline  
post #1177 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 02:39 PM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

Wait, I just looked at the Echo product page, and it says:
Network: 10/100/1000 Mbps Ethernet, MoCA, DHCP or Static IP Address
But it also lists a MoCA adapter as an optional add-on. Does this mean the Echo has MoCA integrated, or not? I mean, it's not like it lists Powerline or WiFi in the network specs, despite the fact that they could be used with an adapter, implying that there is MoCA on-board. The fact that it lists MoCA both in the network specs and in the optional add-ons confuses me.
Looking at the requirements tab (and under the "Optional Add-Ons" section):

"Wired Ethernet Network (10/100/1000 Mbps) or coaxial connection required if using optional MoCA® adapter"

I think their intent on the Tech Specs tab is to let people know which types of networks they expect it to work well with, which is why WiFi isn't listed. Why Powerline wouldn't be listed, I'm not sure - perhaps they don't consider it quite reliable enough to officially support.

It seems pretty clear to me that they won't be including a MOCA adapter with the Echo.
gsr is offline  
post #1178 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 05:06 PM
Member
 
ImThat1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Looking at the requirements tab (and under the "Optional Add-Ons" section):
"Wired Ethernet Network (10/100/1000 Mbps) or coaxial connection required if using optional MoCA® adapter"
I think their intent on the Tech Specs tab is to let people know which types of networks they expect it to work well with, which is why WiFi isn't listed. Why Powerline wouldn't be listed, I'm not sure - perhaps they don't consider it quite reliable enough to officially support.
It seems pretty clear to me that they won't be including a MOCA adapter with the Echo.
Alright, that's what I thought. MoCA would be so convenient for me, as I don't have Cat5 wired through the house. I would pay extra for integrated MoCA, no questions asked.
ImThat1Guy is offline  
post #1179 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 06:14 PM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

Alright, that's what I thought. MoCA would be so convenient for me, as I don't have Cat5 wired through the house. I would pay extra for integrated MoCA, no questions asked.
Yeah it would certainly be a nice bonus in your case, but it would definitely be a wasted, non-trivial, extra cost for most customers.
gsr is offline  
post #1180 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 06:28 PM
Member
 
ImThat1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Yeah it would certainly be a nice bonus in your case, but it would definitely be a wasted, non-trivial, extra cost for most customers.
It's a shame Ceton isn't a big enough company to offer multiple models of each the Echo and the Q, so people like me could have more choice.
ImThat1Guy is offline  
post #1181 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 09:26 PM
Senior Member
 
tima94930's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

It's a shame Ceton isn't a big enough company to offer multiple models of each the Echo and the Q, so people like me could have more choice.

The problem is the size of the market, not the size of Ceton.
tima94930 is offline  
post #1182 of 7721 Old 08-18-2012, 10:43 PM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

It's a shame Ceton isn't a big enough company to offer multiple models of each the Echo and the Q, so people like me could have more choice.
Assuming you're talking about Moca, it's not like you don't have plenty of choice as it is. Just pick the Moca adapter you want and hook it up to the ethernet jack on the Echo when you get it. If they were to offer a version of the Echo with built-in Moca or an included adapter, I'm sure it would cost more than $179. I'm also pretty sure they would need to include both the Moca transmitter and receiver as I doubt you can freely mix and match different ones.

Same thing for people who want to use a wireless connection - hook up the wireless bridge of your choosing to the Echo (and hope that your wireless connection is good enough to work well with it). Or powerline ethernet adapters... It would be absurd for them to offer a different model for each type of network cabling alternative.
gsr is offline  
post #1183 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 09:58 AM
Senior Member
 
reggie14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Assuming you're talking about Moca, it's not like you don't have plenty of choice as it is. Just pick the Moca adapter you want and hook it up to the ethernet jack on the Echo when you get it. It would be absurd for them to offer a different model for each type of network cabling alternative.

I certainly see your point, but the problem is that all those things- but MoCA in particular- are pretty niche products, and as such they can be moderately expensive to buy on their own. It would be a lot cheaper to just buy an Echo with an integrated MoCA adapter than it would be to buy an Echo with a third party adapter. Hopefully Ceton can keep the cost of their optional MoCA adapater down.
reggie14 is offline  
post #1184 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 12:00 PM
Member
 
ImThat1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

I certainly see your point, but the problem is that all those things- but MoCA in particular- are pretty niche products, and as such they can be moderately expensive to buy on their own. It would be a lot cheaper to just buy an Echo with an integrated MoCA adapter than it would be to buy an Echo with a third party adapter. Hopefully Ceton can keep the cost of their optional MoCA adapater down.
I don't think the MoCA adapter is something they're offering. I believe they're recommending it as a third-party add-on.
ImThat1Guy is offline  
post #1185 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 03:18 PM
Senior Member
 
mcturkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

I don't think the MoCA adapter is something they're offering. I believe they're recommending it as a third-party add-on.

I'm not so sure - in order to really do whole-home-DVR, MoCA is critical. As a drop-in replacement for cable company equipment, MoCA is the only practical networking option for the majority of homes. I'd almost expect Ceton to have to market a set of MoCA adapters for the Q/Echo, even if they are just a specific third-party line.
mcturkey is offline  
post #1186 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 03:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Diverge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Not that I have any experience with MoCA, but wouldn't it present the same set of headaches as supporting wireless for their extenders?

If they had MoCA built in they'd have a whole slew of problems from people unfamiliar with it, and just expecting it to work out of the box. Like problems with coax, amps, crappy splitters, ect. It makes the most sense for them to just have ethernet and leave the other options up to the customers to do their research and setup if they choose that route.
Diverge is offline  
post #1187 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 04:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 165
The Echo is an ethernet connected extender. How you construct your network is outside of that.

Sammy2 is offline  
post #1188 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 04:44 PM
Member
 
werd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
If I recall correctly they are including an adapter for MoCA (note this is not a MoCA adapter itself, but some sort of addon) so that if you already had moca adapters you could plug directly into a coax on the echo instead of into an ethernet port. Again this is what I understood James was explaining back in the CES video.
werd is offline  
post #1189 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 05:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bryan_CoxPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I am sure the Echo will have MoCA imbedded into a chipset, might have a MoCA to Ethernet bridge imbedded also, There will be no need for an adapter at the Echo, coax just plugs directly into the Coax port, should you choose to use MoCA instead of straight Ethernet. Same with the Q. The only purpose the Echo will have a Coax input will be for the embedded MoCA.

You will only need a MoCA adapter at your router.

I bet it will look a lot like this, This image is of the tuner-less TiVo IP Extender w/ embedded MoCA

TiVo Roamio Pro, Premiere XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, TiVo Mini
Win7 WMC SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime, Cisco Tuning Adapter Status Troubleshooting
Bryan_CoxPHX is online now  
post #1190 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 06:26 PM
Member
 
Lark3po's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 35
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

I am sure the Echo will have MoCA imbedded into a chipset, might have a MoCA to Ethernet bridge imbedded also, There will be no need for an adapter at the Echo, coax just plugs directly into the Coax port, should you choose to use MoCA instead of straight Ethernet. Same with the Q. The only purpose the Echo will have a Coax input will be for the embedded MoCA.
You will only need a MoCA adapter at your router.
I bet it will look a lot like this, This image is of the tuner-less TiVo IP Extender w/ embedded MoCA

Could be, but the pictures on Engadget are either old or there will be no moca. Time will tell...

http://www.engadget.com/photos/ceton-announces-multi-room-dvr-and-echo-extender-hands-on/#4736996
Lark3po is offline  
post #1191 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 08:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bryan_CoxPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lark3po View Post

Could be, but the pictures on Engadget are either old or there will be no moca. Time will tell...
http://www.engadget.com/photos/ceton-announces-multi-room-dvr-and-echo-extender-hands-on/#4736996

The pics on Engadget are of a prototype, just like the pics of the Q, Eric has already stated the production Q will have a regular Coax connector, not the dongle Coax shown in the prototype pics, It would be safe to assume the production Echo will also have a regular Coax connector.

TiVo Roamio Pro, Premiere XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, TiVo Mini
Win7 WMC SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime, Cisco Tuning Adapter Status Troubleshooting
Bryan_CoxPHX is online now  
post #1192 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 08:25 PM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,350
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

The pics on Engadget are of a prototype, just like the pics of the Q, Eric has already stated the production Q will have a regular Coax connector, not the dongle Coax shown in the prototype pics, It would be safe to assume the production Echo will also have a regular Coax connector.
The coax connector on the Q will be for the cable TV connection, not Moca. I've seen nothing that suggests that either the Q or the Echo will have Moca built in.
gsr is offline  
post #1193 of 7721 Old 08-19-2012, 08:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bryan_CoxPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

The coax connector on the Q will be for the cable TV connection, not Moca. I've seen nothing that suggests that either the Q or the Echo will have Moca built in.

The Echo Tech Specs clearly state MoCA as a network option. There would be no reason to include that in the Specs IF the consumer had to provide and use their own Ethernet to MoCA adapters.
http://cetoncorp.com/wp-content/themes/ceton_v2/downloads/Datasheets/Datasheet-Ceton_Echo.pdf

But you are right the Q does not list MoCA as a Spec, But it would be a big mistake to not include it onboard, as it is very cheap to do.

TiVo Roamio Pro, Premiere XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, TiVo Mini
Win7 WMC SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime, Cisco Tuning Adapter Status Troubleshooting
Bryan_CoxPHX is online now  
post #1194 of 7721 Old 08-20-2012, 07:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
skybolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Stony Brook, NY
Posts: 564
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

The Echo Tech Specs clearly state MoCA as a network option. There would be no reason to include that in the Specs IF the consumer had to provide and use their own Ethernet to MoCA adapters.
http://cetoncorp.com/wp-content/themes/ceton_v2/downloads/Datasheets/Datasheet-Ceton_Echo.pdf
But you are right the Q does not list MoCA as a Spec, But it would be a big mistake to not include it onboard, as it is very cheap to do.

Yes they do state MoCA as a supported option, but also the opttional MoCA adapter

http://cetoncorp.com/products/echo/

•Wired Ethernet Network (10/100/1000 Mbps) or coaxial connection required if using optional MoCA® adapter

skybolt is offline  
post #1195 of 7721 Old 08-20-2012, 07:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,631
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 165
Okay ceton. I got a new TV for the kitchen and the ethernet is there. I just need to get that beta Echo!! Hehe!!

Sammy2 is offline  
post #1196 of 7721 Old 08-20-2012, 11:22 AM
Member
 
ImThat1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

Yes they do state MoCA as a supported option, but also the opttional MoCA adapter
http://cetoncorp.com/products/echo/
•Wired Ethernet Network (10/100/1000 Mbps) or coaxial connection required if using optional MoCA® adapter
There we go, wired Ethernet or coax. That's almost definitive in meaning that Ceton is making something to do with MoCA.
ImThat1Guy is offline  
post #1197 of 7721 Old 08-20-2012, 12:15 PM
Member
 
werd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImThat1Guy View Post

There we go, wired Ethernet or coax. That's almost definitive in meaning that Ceton is making something to do with MoCA.

Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRZ5SkAR1Q0 and go to about 1:30 in James clearly states that all they are doing is adding a MoCA module so that if you ALREADY have a MoCA household you can take out the gigE ethernet and put in a MoCA adapter (coax adapter thing). They make no mention of actually including MoCA adapters themselves. And saying that a MoCA adapter is upwards of 70$ I'm willing to bet they wont be included in the echo price announced.
werd is offline  
post #1198 of 7721 Old 08-20-2012, 02:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bryan_CoxPHX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,591
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by werd View Post

Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRZ5SkAR1Q0 and go to about 1:30 in James clearly states that all they are doing is adding a MoCA module so that if you ALREADY have a MoCA household you can take out the gigE ethernet and put in a MoCA adapter (coax adapter thing). They make no mention of actually including MoCA adapters themselves. And saying that a MoCA adapter is upwards of 70$ I'm willing to bet they wont be included in the echo price announced.

From the YouTube video, it does seem clear the Echo will not have onboard MoCA, My question is why did Ceton list it in the Technical Specifications, that was a major F'up, if it cannot natively support MoCA, Given that loose interpretation (of needing an adapter) then Roku and Smart TV's, and every other internet device, could list MoCA in the Specs, which they can't legally and don't.

To include the trademark MoCA® in your tech specs, your product must be certified by the The Multimedia over Coax Alliance (MoCA®) http://www.mocalliance.org/

TiVo Roamio Pro, Premiere XL4, Premiere 2TB-WD20EURS, TiVo Mini
Win7 WMC SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime, Cisco Tuning Adapter Status Troubleshooting
Bryan_CoxPHX is online now  
post #1199 of 7721 Old 08-20-2012, 02:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
stanger89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Marion, IA
Posts: 17,289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 112
It sounds like they've got a custom MoCA module that replaces the Ethernet port/module, that they're not talking some "normal" Ethernet to MoCA adapter.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
stanger89 is offline  
post #1200 of 7721 Old 08-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Member
 
ImThat1Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by werd View Post

Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRZ5SkAR1Q0 and go to about 1:30 in James clearly states that all they are doing is adding a MoCA module so that if you ALREADY have a MoCA household you can take out the gigE ethernet and put in a MoCA adapter (coax adapter thing). They make no mention of actually including MoCA adapters themselves. And saying that a MoCA adapter is upwards of 70$ I'm willing to bet they wont be included in the echo price announced.
If they can get it for less than $70 I will buy it immediately, even if that is on top of the Echo's $180 price.

EDIT: He said "something we're including... [is that] the Ethernet is module based. If you have a MoCA household and want to run everything through coax, we have a MoCA module." It's not a terribly eloquent sentence, but that could be something to go on.

EDIT2: And also he said the Echo's MoCA module will work with the Q, though said absolutely nothing about it being included or not included. I'd bet not.
ImThat1Guy is offline  
Closed Thread Home Theater Computers

Tags
Blu Ray Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off