Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 7721 Old 10-16-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by motz2k1 View Post

I am not recommending anything to anyone about converting your collection. People just asked me about my personal collection.

I wasn't directing the statement at you Motz. I was just encouraging people to not get to hasty and start transcoding their large media libraries, because it's just not worth it. Everyone wants a single box that can do it all, but it sounds like the Echo might not fit the bill like many had hoped (except for those who are lucky enough to have fully compatible files). Who knows though, the beta is just starting and updates could happen after its release.
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post #1982 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

I wasn't directing the statement at you Motz. I was just encouraging people to not get to hasty and start transcoding their large media libraries, because it's just not worth it. Everyone wants a single box that can do it all, but it sounds like the Echo might not fit the bill like many had hoped (except for those who are lucky enough to have fully compatible files). Who knows though, the beta is just starting and updates could happen after its release.

MKV's are working..

What is needed now is dts and VC-1 support... Basically Full HD video and audio. This will make the Echo worth the asking price.

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post #1983 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

MKV's are working..
What is needed now is dts and VC-1 support... Basically Full HD video and audio. This will make the Echo worth the asking price.


How well are the mkv working?

1. Is your your host pc doing any transcoding?

2. Can you fast forward or rewind (or at least skip ffwd/bwd by # secs)?

3. If you have multiple ac3 audio tracks can you choose which one?

4. If you have subs can you select them?

Thanks for taking the time to answer this. Appreciate it.

Also how is the performance of media browser? Snappy?
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post #1984 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 06:32 AM
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The mkv playback looked good.. not as good as on my HTPC but that is optimized with an nVidea card that is bigger than the Echo itself plus I'm using MadVR.

I did limited testing with it. I'm pretty sure the transcoding is being done on the host. When I have time I'll remote into my HTPC and see as I'm using the same display for both right now.

I will try >> and << later.

This particular file has only one audio tract and no subs. Testing that will require a different mkv that I'll need to find in my library or convert.

MediaBrowser, as well as all other menu items, on the Echo is pretty decent since the first f/w update pushed yesterday. It isn't quite as fast as on the HTPC but it is very acceptable.

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post #1985 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by gustovier View Post


Also how is the performance of media browser? Snappy?

Curious to the answer to this as well.. The Xbox doesn't handle media browser very well (for me at least, I may have something set up wrong though)
Scrolling through a folder of 200 or so movies is crazy slow. If I don't wait 3 to 4 seconds after each movie when scrolling, it gets all backed up.
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post #1986 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 07:00 AM
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The perfomance of Media Browser, is definetly dependant on the host pc, I have 7MC running in a VM and if I add/remove memory and/or processors the response dramaticly changes. for a smooth responsive system I use 4gb ram and 2 processors (i5) in the VM. I think the xbox itself is also limited to how snappy things wrok as well.

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post #1987 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 07:06 AM
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Let me add that currently the Echo is only "seeing" the movies on one of my drives in my HTPC. This drive only has about 10 movies on it. I suppose when I finally get it "seeing" all my drives spannin the HTPC and my PC it will react slower but IDK yet.

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post #1988 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 07:07 AM
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Sammy2 - what is the bit rate you are testing, your MKV's are form DVD or BD?

With the xbox I cna play pretty much any MKV created from DVD, but not BD. BD totally chokes and DVD plays but no real time shifting.
A good test is Chronicles of Riddick, it's max bit rate is ~10mbps and only has AC3. So this should play directly.

Another thing to consider is usinghte copy command to string .Vob's together and rename as MPG. This also works for me, but no indexing and limited time shifting.

I am hoping that the Echo is much better then what I experince with the xbox.

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post #1989 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

The perfomance of Media Browser, is definetly dependant on the host pc, I have 7MC running in a VM and if I add/remove memory and/or processors the response dramaticly changes. for a smooth responsive system I use 4gb ram and 2 processors (i5) in the VM. I think the xbox itself is also limited to how snappy things wrok as well.

My HTPC is a core i5 (650) with 8gigs. Media browser is extremely fast on the HTPC, extremely slow on the Xbox. So slow, that I just resort to "Videos" to select movies in Media center on the Xbox.
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post #1990 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 07:12 AM
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I believe the bit rate is around 5kbs but I'll need to check. At work now and won't be home for 12 hours. It is one of the first rips I did and it is compressed but it is 23.976fps BRD.

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post #1991 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I believe the bit rate is around 5kbs but I'll need to check. At work now and won't be home for 12 hours. It is one of the first rips I did and it is compressed but it is 23.976fps BRD.
Sammy,

To be clear you have MKV after installing Shark007 or prior? If it was post this means shark007 pack is actually doing the MKV (let's call it )heavy lifting. The echo is only processing the video/audio streams inside of the container after the envelope has been opened and internals known.


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post #1992 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 07:58 AM
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The Shark pack, is just that, a collection of codecs.
Haali Splitter is among them. Haali Splitter will work just fine with low bitrate MKVs if the h.264 video porting is from an MPG source like ripped DVD's.
At least it does for me on the xbox. You could just install Haali Splitter if you didn't want the over head of the shark install.

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post #1993 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

One thing with WMC extenders is that the very first time (after you connect) you open up the Guide, it takes a few extra seconds to show up. But next time you hit the guide, it will be quick. It is simply a bad design in MS' part because it seems that Xtenders need to download a fairly large chunk of guide data everytime it connects instead of caching it on the extender.

With my 7MC machine being an i7 with SSD, this isn't the case. My 360 extender on wired ethernet is extremely responsive and things like the guide load almost immediately (I'd say as fast as a PC without SSD). My 360 was slow to respond when it was connected through an E6800 with 10K hard drive.
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post #1994 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:04 AM
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Can any of the beta testers verify that Netflix shows up on the Echo and can be accessed? ou don't need to be subbed to try that. Thanks Guys.

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post #1995 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

The Shark pack, is just that, a collection of codecs.
Haali Splitter is among them. Haali Splitter will work just fine with low bitrate MKVs if the h.264 video porting is from an MPG source like ripped DVD's.
At least it does for me on the xbox. You could just install Haali Splitter if you didn't want the over head of the shark install.

For MKV playback on the 360, you'll need the divxMF as well if you go the non-shark route. I've had a pretty good success with mkv on the xbox, ranging from 10Mb-25Mb bit rate mkvs... but (as I mentioned earlier in the thread), my switch has played a large part (particularly flow control). Without it, i'd get skipping, etc on virtually anything over 15Mbit.
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post #1996 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

Can any of the beta testers verify that Netflix shows up on the Echo and can be accessed? ou don't need to be subbed to try that. Thanks Guys.

It does not show up. I asked in the beta forum and learned that its up to the plugin developer to decide if its available on a extender or not. And for things which it's just launching the web client it is not possible.

Now, having said that I do recall ceton having some statement around potential web access via the echo.


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post #1997 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

It does not show up. I asked in the beta forum and learned that its up to the plugin developer to decide if its available on a extender or not. And for things which it's just launching the web client it is not possible.
Now, having said that I do recall ceton having some statement around potential web access via the echo.
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mariob33

I am pretty sure that Netflix and Microsoft have an evil deal to make it not show up so that people will pay for Xbox Gold.

Hate it!

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post #1998 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

I don't understand what the extender playback has to do with the "server" software playback support? I'm pretty sure the HD300 works like all other hardware media players out there. That is, the file is just streamed to the device as is and the device can either play it or not?

Natively, WMC does not pass the codecs within the MKV to the extender. It transcodes the containers into a basic codec like WMV or mpeg to then be passed to the extender. You have to install special codecs which tell media foundation to pass the codecs to the extenders and not transcode. This is if the 'extender' is using WMC to get the file. Now if the extender has it's own share folder setup which points directly to the server share and is accessed outside of the WMC extender menu, then yes, it doesn't matter.
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post #1999 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

For MKV playback on the 360, you'll need the divxMF as well if you go the non-shark route. I've had a pretty good success with mkv on the xbox, ranging from 10Mb-25Mb bit rate mkvs... but (as I mentioned earlier in the thread), my switch has played a large part (particularly flow control). Without it, i'd get skipping, etc on virtually anything over 15Mbit.

Thanks, I actually installed Haali with the DivxMF package, I forgot about that.

That's a very good point, what switch are you using. I am using a CISCO small bis. GB managed switch. dedicated to my 7MC VM. I actually have two nics as well. One is dedicated to the HDHR Prime network and the other to the extenders. I had this already setup with Sage.

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post #2000 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

For MKV playback on the 360, you'll need the divxMF as well if you go the non-shark route. I've had a pretty good success with mkv on the xbox, ranging from 10Mb-25Mb bit rate mkvs... but (as I mentioned earlier in the thread), my switch has played a large part (particularly flow control). Without it, i'd get skipping, etc on virtually anything over 15Mbit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

The Shark pack, is just that, a collection of codecs.
Haali Splitter is among them. Haali Splitter will work just fine with low bitrate MKVs if the h.264 video porting is from an MPG source like ripped DVD's.
At least it does for me on the xbox. You could just install Haali Splitter if you didn't want the over head of the shark install.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Sammy,
To be clear you have MKV after installing Shark007 or prior? If it was post this means shark007 pack is actually doing the MKV (let's call it )heavy lifting. The echo is only processing the video/audio streams inside of the container after the envelope has been opened and internals known.

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mariob33

I had previously installed shark007, quite some time ago I guess but I don't even remember doing it. My HTPC has been running smooth for months though. In looking at the *.txt file that I posted it shows that LAV is in the WindowsCodecs directory created by shark007.

As far as overhead of shark007, IDK about that.. Things work and arent' sluggish so does that even matter?

Any skipping or other issues that I may encounter will have nothing to do with switches or routers as my network is optimized and for testing purposes the Echo is on the same switch as my HTPC right now and that switch is behind another switch. My HTPC plays high bit-rate mkv's perfectly; now to get the Echo to follow suit.

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post #2001 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:39 AM
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saving silverman biggrin.gif

YUP! Great movie!!

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post #2002 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

It must be something with your setup. I'm playing back the BD rip of The Wrath of Titans. m2ts file is located right on the same PC. And my Xbox (4GB Arcade fat box) is connected via powerline adapter two stories down from the PC. No transcoding. Smooth as butter.

It's either transcoding and you don't realize it or the bitrate / resolution isn't as high as you think. The hardware of the Xbox 360 just is not capable of video bitrates in the 20s + with 1080p. Considering you have an i7, WMC could vary well be transcoding your files to a lower resolution / bitrate and you not even realize it.

http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/settings-and-initial-setup/watch-dvds-movies
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post #2003 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:49 AM
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Wondering what the max bitrate supported by the Echo is?

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post #2004 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jrwalte View Post

It's either transcoding and you don't realize it or the bitrate / resolution isn't as high as you think. The hardware of the Xbox 360 just is not capable of video bitrates in the 20s + with 1080p.
http://support.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-360/settings-and-initial-setup/watch-dvds-movies

Believe me I know how a transcoded video looks like (I saw them when using DLNA of my TV or old BD player). To make sure my PC isn't transcoding, I checked the CPU usage on my PC and it is about 1%. When transcoding, it will jump to really high percentage (over 60 to 100% on all 8 virtual cores). The average bitrate for the movie is around 25mbps with peaks around 30 to 40mbps. I also checked my PC's network usage and it confirms to transfer rate about inline with the bitrate.
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post #2005 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:56 AM
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This is the type of spec we need from Ceton ... It would save alot of cyber paper and confusion.

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post #2006 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Wondering what the max bitrate supported by the Echo is?

If the thing is easy to open, then take some pics of the inside and we can find out specs for the chipset.

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post #2007 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

I see. I am assuming that the DivxMF is part of Shark007 and not available standalone?

Divx Media Foundation is part of Divx. You do not have to install Shark007 to get it. You can download the divx codec from divx and tell it to only install MKV Splitter - Media Foundation (Windows 7 only) when prompted which codecs to install.
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post #2008 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by xnappo View Post

If the thing is easy to open, then take some pics of the inside and we can find out specs for the chipset.
xnappo

It has no screws.. Maybe ceton could shed some light on this or somebody else can take a peak as I'm not busting mine open.

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post #2009 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

It has no screws.. Maybe ceton could shed some light on this or somebody else can take a peak as I'm not busting mine open.

It has screws, they are hidden though (you have to peel off the front faceplate sticker to get to them). I should probably mention that opening the unit is likely to void your warranty. I'll see if I can get some pictures at some point of the inside, it's a FreeScale SOC, the model # escapes me at the moment.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #2010 of 7721 Old 10-17-2012, 09:34 AM
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^^ See, I wasn't going to mess with it even enough to try to crack it open. I thought it "snapped" together but guess I was wrong.

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