Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike7143 View Post

Dear Ceton,
If the Echo can:
1. Allow me to do Netflix/Hulu/Youtube
2. Natively support MKVs and many other formats
3. Pop a blu-ray into the host PC's blu-ray drive and stream it to the Echo
I'd buy one for every TV in the house and every TV in all my friends', families', coworkers', and strangers' houses.

I think that 1 and 2 would be simple enough? 3 would be great but I'm not sure if it'd be possible. I just want to play a DVD/Blu-ray from the host's drive on my extender!

there is no technical reason this can't be done. sage extenders do this now. unfortunately netflix and hulu are the only thing they couldn't really do (excluding using playon).
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post #182 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Derek K. View Post

there is no technical reason this can't be done. sage extenders do this now. unfortunately netflix and hulu are the only thing they couldn't really do (excluding using playon).

Interesting. Well if they can include the streaming of DVD/Blu-rays from the host's drive to the Echo I'd still buy one. Why would adding Netflix (and Hulu for those who use it) be an issue? Even the cheapest $90 blu-ray stand-alone blu-ray players have support for Netflix. I must be missing something.

Regardless, the Echo would still be in my home even without the Netflix support.
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post #183 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike7143 View Post

Interesting. Well if they can include the streaming of DVD/Blu-rays from the host's drive to the Echo I'd still buy one.

I would bet that won't happen, they'd need a license to do that and even Kaleidescape had a heck of a time doing that.

Quote:


Why would adding Netflix (and Hulu for those who use it) be an issue?

For Sage I think it was a market/volume issue, I don't think Sage was big enough to convince Netflix to support them. Supposedly you need to be able to show Netflix you'll be able to have a certain number of users to get Netflix included.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #184 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 12:47 PM
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I would like the ability to roll my own Q and use the Echo extender, well wishful thinking anyway
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post #185 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Guebert View Post

I would like the ability to roll my own Q

I am confuse.
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post #186 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohnson1 View Post

I am confuse.

@ajohnson1
You shouldn't be confused at all. It's just wishful thinking on his part. Obviously he can't roll his own. It's a highly customized experience. This isn't just Media Center in a box.
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post #187 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Guebert View Post

I would like the ability to roll my own Q and use the Echo extender, well wishful thinking anyway

I understand the Echo can be used as an extender for a standard Windows 7 PC running Media Center, right?
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post #188 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tehowell View Post

I understand the Echo can be used as an extender for a standard Windows 7 PC running Media Center, right?

Yes, but without the features Ceton is adding to WMC in the Q. When used with a regular WMC system, the Echo won't reach its full potential (though it may still have some extender capabilities that the XBOX doesn't have, such as the ability to stream more file formats).
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post #189 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Yes, but without the features Ceton is adding to WMC in the Q.

This is really what I'm most likely interested in, what exactly are those features which it can/can't do when paired with a Q vs a 7MC machine. Reason being for me, I've basically written off the Q as an option due to it almost certainly only working with Cable.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #190 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddyboy View Post

@ajohnson1
You shouldn't be confused at all. It's just wishful thinking on his part. Obviously he can't roll his own. It's a highly customized experience. This isn't just Media Center in a box.

Well, what does "roll" mean? I'm assuming, by context clues, that he wants to create his own Q? Isn't that kinda like saying you want to build an XBox 360? Just seems like a silly comment.
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post #191 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

This is really what I'm most likely interested in, what exactly are those features which it can/can't do when paired with a Q vs a 7MC machine. Reason being for me, I've basically written off the Q as an option due to it almost certainly only working with Cable.

Well, we obviously don't know everything the Q can do yet, but 1 specific example is the theme capability they're putting in the Q (see the video linked above).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohnson1 View Post

Well, what does "roll" mean? I'm assuming, by context clues, that he wants to create his own Q? Isn't that kinda like saying you want to build an XBox 360? Just seems like a silly comment.

The difference is that the Q is sorta-kinda a Windows 7 system running Windows Media Center with some customizations (it's Windows 7 embedded, obviously). In theory, it would be possible for Ceton to make their changes available for the standard WMC too, but I don't see that happening as that would cut into sales of their product.

If I were just starting out (assuming the Q was ready to ship), I might give the Q serious consideration. OTOH, it seems like there will be quite a few limitations with it when compared with a standard Windows 7 system running WMC. Those limitations make sense and are understandable given what they're looking to accomplish, but some of the limitations (such as limited or no tuner options beyond the built-in InfiniTV 6) may be things I wouldn't find acceptable given the alternatives (building my own system and going with the standard WMC). Six tuners is almost enough, but every once in a while it isn't, so I would definitely want to be able to go beyond 6.
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post #192 of 7721 Old 01-18-2012, 08:16 PM
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Ceton could open the option of a quasi-Q (hey, I like the sound of that!) experience to normal WMC owners via the Echo by selling these specific pieces of their software to the general population.

Depending on the price of the Q, it would probably still cost more to piece meal your own box and an infinitv6 + whatever cost of the software so I wouldn't totally see it eating into their product sales.
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post #193 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

OTOH, it seems like there will be quite a few limitations with it when compared with a standard Windows 7 system running WMC.

My thoughts exactly. To me it seems like the Q could be marketed toward people who are interested in exploring other DVR options, but who aren't quite comfortable setting up a PC to run WMC dedicated.

For example, my parents would never be able to fully operate an HTPC. But I could easily see myself getting them a Q and them enjoying it.

It's probably a good option for home theater installation companies as well.
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post #194 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajohnson1 View Post

My thoughts exactly. To me it seems like the Q could be marketed toward people who are interested in exploring other DVR options, but who aren't quite comfortable setting up a PC to run WMC dedicated.

For example, my parents would never be able to fully operate an HTPC. But I could easily see myself getting them a Q and them enjoying it.

It's probably a good option for home theater installation companies as well.

Yeah, and it should be a good fit for that customer base. It's weird though, because some of the features they're talk about adding sound like they'd be great for the enthusiast crowd (and probably not get much use from other users).

Speaking of installation companies - something they should consider is making rack mount ears available (and make sure the chassis is an even multiple of rack spaces tall with the feet removed).
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post #195 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 06:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Speaking of installation companies - something they should consider is making rack mount ears available (and make sure the chassis is an even multiple of rack spaces tall with the feet removed).

the custom installer base has to be their number one priority - those guys moved away from WMC after the integrators alliance was disolved. remote fixable computers by companies like niveus were the only real solution (probably a few others).

with this, for around $1500 in equipment you could truely have a whole home solution that gives the best of a few different providers (tivo, kalediescape, sonos)

My HTPC front end set up
Integration for whole home ATSC, CableCARD, FM radio, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS control & capture, video games, and archived & streaming media playback
Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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post #196 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 03:14 PM
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I don't usually post much on forums, just love reading the discussions. However, I had to post to express how excited I really am about the Echo and the Q!!!! These products are promising everything that I have wanted my HTPC with multiroom access to be. If the products are even close to what they promise, I will be investing in a Q and 2 Echos.

Sorry I don't mean to lose focus, I do have a question specific to the echo.

I have watched every video, looked at pictures, and read every forum that I can find related to these products and didn't see any mention of if there are any expansion ports on the echo, for example Usb. I understand it's purpose as an extender doesn't require it.

It would be fantasic if the echo could just "extend" the Q's DVD/Blu-ray drive, as many have requested. But if that can't be done, maybe support for an external usb dvd or blu-ray drive could be supported by the echo. Allowing those that prefer, to add on a drive for use specifically for the room it is in.

My questions is: Will the echo potentially support external usb dvd/blu-ray drives?

Thanks everybody for the continued discussion.
And thank you Ceton for being so involved!!!! I rarely see involvement in forums of the same degree.
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post #197 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 03:19 PM
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Hello:

I am late in responding in this forum, and I hope this question has not already been answered. Like many people, my HTPC runs WMC 7 with My Movies and ArcSoft TMT 4 for playback of Blu-Rays. Simply put, I like My Movies. Will the Ceton extenders interact with My Movies? Will they negate the need for TMT or some other 3rd part Blu-Ray software?

I like the concept they are pushing. If it can interact with the most popular plug-ins (i.e: My Movies), they may have a slam dunk.
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post #198 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 04:17 PM
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Hmm.. I wonder what impact Windows 8 will have on this device??

Samsung PN60F8500, Panasonic TH-42PD25U/P, Pioneer VSX-1018TXH-K, Oppo BDP-93, Aperion Audio 5T&5C, HSU STF-2, PS3, Wii, HTPC, SD Homerun Prime, Ceton Echo
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post #199 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 04:25 PM
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Don't read too far into this statement, but keep in mind that embedded Windows is on a different release cycle than standard retail Windows. It generally comes out after the retail Windows, and some versions do not have embedded counterparts.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #200 of 7721 Old 01-19-2012, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

Hmm.. I wonder what impact Windows 8 will have on this device??

Not sure we are expecting a massive change in WMC between Win 7 and Win 8 are we? At one point there were worries that MS were dropping WMC in Win 8 - but this was because it wasn't included in the beta releases. MS have confirmed it will now be in some Win 8 versions (and it is in Windows 7 Embedded)

(Be interesting if they fix some of the bugs (like the annoying 5.1/2.0 speaker configuration and Dolby Bitstream crash one...) Not holding my breath for the MSAS bug that stops Live TV time/duration displays working properly though - as that has been deprecated...)
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post #201 of 7721 Old 01-20-2012, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S1DIMMER View Post

Here's a video from thedigitallifestyle.com with a cool demo of the units:

http://thedigitallifestyle.com/w/ind...indows-8-apps/

Can't wait for these to come out.

Nice demo. It looks like Ceton nailed the recorded TV / extender "experience" with media (TV/Movies/Music/etc) aggregation across your local collection and the net.

There are two key unknowns:
1. Echo and Q Media format support: How well does it support Blu Ray, MKV, ISO, FLAC, etc.
2. Q Media Storage: Internal to Q or external (USB/E-SATA/Network shares).

Currently I have a Win7 HTPC with a HDHR, and a HDHR Prime, two Linksys DMA2100 extenders and two WDTV Live products. The Win7 HTPC handles the TV recording duties (1TB) and the movie storage (4TB). The extenders are used for viewing live and recorded TV and the WDTV Live boxes are used for Movies and Netflix.

If the Echo improves the media support over my two Linksys DMA2100 extenders, I'm sold on the Echo and I'll keep my Win7 HTPC with my HDHR tuners. I could then ditch the old DMA2100s and the WDTV boxes. If the Q can share up my SD and HD movies to the Echo either through external drives or from NAS network shares, I could potentially transition away from my HTPC. Recording Cable TV is the main driver for my HTPC and I really don't leverage the HTPC flexibility.

Tim
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post #202 of 7721 Old 01-20-2012, 04:48 PM
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Just wanted to pop in and let Ceton know how much I LOVE their company for catering to the ONLY CableCard-based HTPC backend. I've got three DMA2200's that I have been begging to throw in the trash for years because they're so outdated, hardware-wise.

Also, this thread is filled with a lot of people who need to read about MCE Extenders before they post in this thread. Tons of fail here and it's only serving to confuse the other newcomers which does Ceton - and these new products - no favors. This technology has been around since Vista so it's functionality and limitations are well documented.

My question for Ceton is probably not one they can answer but I'd like to know how the licensing works for manufacturing an MCE Extender. Apart from I believe HP, Linksys, and maybe D-Link(?), nobody has ever bothered to make an Extender and even those companies jumped ship - what ... 4 years ago? I always assumed the licensing was the cause because the hardware (even at that time) was cheap.

Make this thing stream MKV at 1080P and I'll take at least four of them. Add support for Bluray 3D to the Q and I'll need at least one of those as well.

And for those worried about their target demographic, it's very obviously the very niche market that exists in this thread so I see no reason they won't try to cram everything humanly possible into these devices. That's Ceton's track record... fact.
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post #203 of 7721 Old 01-22-2012, 09:58 PM
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If only these things could browse internet...

there is no proper way to do this right (like not some half ass plugin) ? like i want to use my wireless keybaord/mouse to browse also...

but yeah.. i might use this maybe just for the bedroom if im happy not to browse there...

but yeah.. always something missing..

if microsoft would have just released softsled !!!!
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post #204 of 7721 Old 01-23-2012, 05:32 AM
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I'd rather use my laptop or a tablet personally.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #205 of 7721 Old 01-23-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I'd rather use my laptop or a tablet personally.

So would I. I use my iPad for web surfing, and it's a much better experience then trying to do it on my HTPC box (especially a closed box like the Q) that you have to sit there with a keyboard and mouse attached to it. The box might not even have the services required to actually do web browsing. The Q and Echo where not designed with that in mind.
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post #206 of 7721 Old 01-23-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

I'd rather use my laptop or a tablet personally.

Yeah, I must confess that I've never personally understood the appeal of a web browser in this environment at all.

But I think

1) some of us are spoiled by having the disposable income to have laptops/ iPads/ iPhones/ tablets in addition to these machines.

2) a lot of us have family members who are also watching the devices at the same time. It's always a bit uncomfortable to me to do web browsing w/ another person sitting there doing nothing but watching me type...
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post #207 of 7721 Old 01-23-2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unacceptable View Post

Also, this thread is filled with a lot of people who need to read about MCE Extenders before they post in this thread.

pretty sure MS started the extender thing with XP MCE and the original XBox... long before vista...
perhaps you should consider following your own advice?
and in classic MS form the screwed up their first go at it...
but unlike MS who generally fix it by the 2nd try or so, they never really fixed their whole extender scheme for some reason?
it is almost like they threw it out there, decided it sucked, and gave up on it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unacceptable View Post

Tons of fail here and it's only serving to confuse the other newcomers which does Ceton - and these new products - no favors. This technology has been around since Vista so it's functionality and limitations are well documented.

what fails? can you reference them so we know what is wrong?
this thread seems to mostly to be trying to figure out how many, if any, of MS screw ups Ceton fixed, and how much it costs...

also I was not aware that we owed ceton, or anyone, else any favors...
pretty sure we just owe it to ourselves to discus interesting new products and see if they fit with what we are trying to do...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #208 of 7721 Old 01-23-2012, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

Yeah, I must confess that I've never personally understood the appeal of a web browser in this environment at all.

While I don't generally use a web browser on my HTPC, it does come in handy once in a while for the following:

1. Downloading current drivers
2. Viewing setup tutorials for apps, such as Shark007 codecs

The ability to browse to a website and display settings for apps I've installed is a huge plus. It saves me the time and cost of printing out a hard copy to follow. I still like having a hard copy once in a while, but it's also nice to be able to look at screen shots and text to make sure I'm inputting the proper settings. It really came in handy when I installed my first Ceton InfiniTV 4.

Downloading drivers isn't a huge issue, but it saves me the trouble of logging onto my main PC and then transferring the files over once they've downloaded.
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post #209 of 7721 Old 01-23-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

While I don't generally use a web browser on my HTPC, it does come in handy once in a while for the following:

1. Downloading current drivers
2. Viewing setup tutorials for apps, such as Shark007 codecs

The ability to browse to a website and display settings for apps I've installed is a huge plus. It saves me the time and cost of printing out a hard copy to follow. I still like having a hard copy once in a while, but it's also nice to be able to look at screen shots and text to make sure I'm inputting the proper settings. It really came in handy when I installed my first Ceton InfiniTV 4.

Downloading drivers isn't a huge issue, but it saves me the trouble of logging onto my main PC and then transferring the files over once they've downloaded.

All reasons why the Q is going to be so popular, it won't need any of that.

That's one of the reasons I like(d) SageTV so much, it was the first app (other than MCE which was unbuyable when I started using Sage) that let you configure everything you need with just a remote.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #210 of 7721 Old 01-23-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

Yeah, I must confess that I've never personally understood the appeal of a web browser in this environment at all.

But I think

1) some of us are spoiled by having the disposable income to have laptops/ iPads/ iPhones/ tablets in addition to these machines.

2) a lot of us have family members who are also watching the devices at the same time. It's always a bit uncomfortable to me to do web browsing w/ another person sitting there doing nothing but watching me type...

its not about browsing while others are watching .. when i have friends over ... we always minimize media center if a topic comes up to browse the internet or go to youtube etc... its about having the full experience.

If SOFTSLED was released im sure most people would just build mini pcs/extenders with this sort of barebones ( Shuttle XS35 )and get no limits on what you can play or do...

I think all this "i dont see the point in browsing" is just accepting the limitations.. which is ok but dont try and convince yourself that most people wouldnt want it.

But yeah.. since softsled will prob never come out this is the next best thing... unless google tv decided to create a centralised tv guide setup
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