Official Ceton Echo Extender Info Thread - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

You were correct I ripped only features minus menus/extras so it was loading the main film. On the couple I had with menus there is no way to get/control the menu navigation.

Without menus I don't see the point. Why not just convert them to a more compatible format?
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post #2792 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 06:17 PM
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Without menus I don't see the point. Why not just convert them to a more compatible format?

My point exactly. I use Auto Rip N' Compress and am extremely happy with the results. Even better, my wife and kids are very happy with the results. For me the menus are an annoyance anyway.
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post #2793 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by khubo View Post

My point exactly. I use Auto Rip N' Compress and am extremely happy with the results. Even better, my wife and kids are very happy with the results. For me the menus are an annoyance anyway.

I mostly agree, except I have one of the Sony 200 disc changers that works with Media Center for all my favorite movies. I like being able to see the special features, commentary, etc. I really like the random facts on the Back to the Future trilogy.
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post #2794 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 06:49 PM
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I don't have time for any of that stuff.

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post #2795 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by jeonunh View Post

I honestly don't think it would take much to one up the big boys. If they used Android all the heavy lifting has already been done, and they could use XBMC.

Every Android based streamer is complete junk.
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post #2796 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I don't have time for any of that stuff.

I don't have tons of free time either. That's why I want simplified access to the media I have, with the best possible experience. Hence why I'm posting on a forum dedicated to home theater enthusiasts.
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post #2797 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 07:14 PM
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Every Android based streamer is complete junk.

Well I can't argue with that well supported piece of logic. This comment is based on what?
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post #2798 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jeonunh View Post

I don't have tons of free time either. That's why I want simplified access to the media I have, with the best possible experience. Hence why I'm posting on a forum dedicated to home theater enthusiasts.

+1

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post #2799 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Not me. I think they would be much better served to focus (100%) on being a MCX. Forget everything else... they aren't going to top the WD TV Live, NeoTV 550 (for HD audio/video) or whatnot...

They don't play TV.
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Their only true market is MCX and if they try to make a Swiss army knife they will simply cut themselves. smile.gif

Sort of, but there's a group, I don't know how big, but I would venture that it would be "significant" (for a company the size of Ceton), that has avoided WMC specifically because it's extenders are limited, and would "flock" to WMC and the Echo if they made a device that supported significantly more than what current/prior MCXs did.
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Yes. They want everything for next to nothing (all in one box). Well that's not going to happen and even more so the market isn't big enough to support such (tagging MCX onto a featured packed streamer).

SageTV managed to do it, three times.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #2800 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by khubo View Post

If you are going to go to all that trouble why not just use MakeMKV to rip the main movie and the main soundtrack and then wrap it in .WTV? That way you have the same functionality you describe above but you also have full control over FF/RW. I have done this with all my movies and then by using MediaBrowser I have a full featured solution that works beautifully with my Extenders.
Blu Ray rips are a whole different story and I am not quite sure how I will be handling those yet but with a library of only 4 BR discs I am not overly concerned about it yet.

What program do you use to wrap your files in .wtv?
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post #2801 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

They don't play TV.

Nor should they. Exactly my point.

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Sort of, but there's a group, I don't know how big, but I would venture that it would be "significant" (for a company the size of Ceton), that has avoided WMC specifically because it's extenders are limited, and would "flock" to WMC and the Echo if they made a device that supported significantly more than what current/prior MCXs did.

Don't buy it for a second. A dedicated low-end extender would be exponentially more popular. Those actually interested in streaming would have their needs taken care of already. Well beyond what this will ever offer. Sure, there are always some wanting everything and will complain when it doesn't exceed the capabilities of the best streamer on the market... you aren't going to make a business off of them.

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SageTV managed to do it, three times.

Go out of business?
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post #2802 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 09:09 PM
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I think sageTV was bought by google, they didn't really go out of business.
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post #2803 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Go out of business?
Yeah, the crew at Sage did such a bad job that Google payed some number of millions of dollars to acquire them just to put them out of their misery. rolleyes.gif
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post #2804 of 7721 Old 11-05-2012, 10:02 PM
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Google was after that for their new project with the gig internet and internet TV delivery associated with that I believe. I think they're going to deploy a similar technology for delivery on a larger scale.. Either that of it was about a patent portfolio that maybe Sage had? That seems to drive IT aquasissions as much as anything these days.

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post #2805 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 12:01 AM
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I just don't really get it. Why didn't they just use the Sage 300 HD type plafform and put enough rom in it to support two enviroments. Other streamers used the same freaking chassis for heavens sake. All you needed was to add MCX functionality to that. The Sage 300 HD produced native resoltuions and superb vidieo output. It was self-contained and agnostic about where the media came from. Lovely, lovely video came out ot if, in the right color space. Put through a proper scaler like DVDO Edge, DUO, or Lumagen and you did not want to look at PC generated video. That SOC and or its replacement must cost a few dollars a pop these days. I have to say I am mystified by the Echo. Black Friday Xbox Slims will probably be $135.

I guess since the Q was still born we will never really know what Ceton's real ambition was or how much functionality the Echo was supposed to have when all "Qed" up. Right now I just can't get my head around the Echo..

Just another blank signature.
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post #2806 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by werd View Post

I think sageTV was bought by google, they didn't really go out of business.
Google made SageTV "disappear" as we know it. It may be resurrected at some point under a different name, but for all intents and purposes, SageTV is dead.
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post #2807 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

... I guess since the Q was still born we will never really know what Ceton's real ambition was or how much functionality the Echo was supposed to have when all "Qed" up. Right now I just can't get my head around the Echo..

It's simple, they are doing public R&D (not a dig), so we are seeing what the public should really never see, but the end result may be realized sooner then if done privately.
That said, I believe this product should be able to evolve after release, unlike most other products of this nature, assuming the hardware can support the intent.

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post #2808 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Nor should they. Exactly my point.

My point is a lot of people are looking for something that does both.
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Don't buy it for a second. A dedicated low-end extender would be exponentially more popular. Those actually interested in streaming would have their needs taken care of already.

With what? I've been looking ever since Google bought Sage, there is nothing out there even close to SageTV+HD300, I was really hoping (based on what we heard from Ceton around CES time) that the Echo would be that something. Obviously it's not.
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Well beyond what this will ever offer. Sure, there are always some wanting everything and will complain when it doesn't exceed the capabilities of the best streamer on the market... you aren't going to make a business off of them.

I wouldn't be complaining, I wouldn't even be here if it weren't for what Ceton hinted at around CES time.

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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Google was after that for their new project with the gig internet and internet TV delivery associated with that I believe. I think they're going to deploy a similar technology for delivery on a larger scale.. Either that of it was about a patent portfolio that maybe Sage had? That seems to drive IT aquasissions as much as anything these days.

They're using SageTV for GoogleFiber, from what I've heard (from Brent, who lives in KC and has been following it closely and talking to the Google Fiber folks) it sounds like it's largely just reskinned SageTV, it's the same guts underneath. So yeah, SageTV did so bad that Google bought it for the OS for their DVR.

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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I just don't really get it. Why didn't they just use the Sage 300 HD type plafform and put enough rom in it to support two enviroments. Other streamers used the same freaking chassis for heavens sake. All you needed was to add MCX functionality to that. The Sage 300 HD produced native resoltuions and superb vidieo output. It was self-contained and agnostic about where the media came from. Lovely, lovely video came out ot if, in the right color space. Put through a proper scaler like DVDO Edge, DUO, or Lumagen and you did not want to look at PC generated video. That SOC and or its replacement must cost a few dollars a pop these days. I have to say I am mystified by the Echo. Black Friday Xbox Slims will probably be $135.
I guess since the Q was still born we will never really know what Ceton's real ambition was or how much functionality the Echo was supposed to have when all "Qed" up. Right now I just can't get my head around the Echo..

Yeah, I don't know why Ceton opted to go with a brand new, (high powered) SOC when they seem to have such modest goals for the Echo.
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

Google made SageTV "disappear" as we know it. It may be resurrected at some point under a different name, but for all intents and purposes, SageTV is dead.

GoogleFiber DVR is SageTV, but yes, SageTV is unavailable indefinitely to the general public frown.gif

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post #2809 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I just don't really get it. Why didn't they just use the Sage 300 HD type plafform and put enough rom in it to support two enviroments. Other streamers used the same freaking chassis for heavens sake. All you needed was to add MCX functionality to that. The Sage 300 HD produced native resoltuions and superb vidieo output. It was self-contained and agnostic about where the media came from. Lovely, lovely video came out ot if, in the right color space. Put through a proper scaler like DVDO Edge, DUO, or Lumagen and you did not want to look at PC generated video. That SOC and or its replacement must cost a few dollars a pop these days. I have to say I am mystified by the Echo. Black Friday Xbox Slims will probably be $135.
I guess since the Q was still born we will never really know what Ceton's real ambition was or how much functionality the Echo was supposed to have when all "Qed" up. Right now I just can't get my head around the Echo..

Think of WMC Plugins for an HTPC created by ceton programmers.

Get off the SageTV train. That box, although wonderful in it's own right I guess as I never owned one, could never do Copy Protected CATV content and that is a serious shortcoming in my book.

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post #2810 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Think of WMC Plugins for an HTPC created by ceton programmers.
Get off the SageTV train. That box, although wonderful in it's own right I guess as I never owned one, could never do Copy Protected CATV content and that is a serious shortcoming in my book.

Lol. Shortcoming? Yeah, being able to play just about every content under the sun except copy once is (noticed I said "is" since I still own and use 3) a real problem. It's amazing that a brand new piece of technology like the Echo is being compared to a HD-300 Sage extender which is several years old and the Sage extender beats it handly...

I am excited for the release day of the Echo so we can at least see what Ceton truly intends it to do. This public beta has been mishandled so badly that we are all left confused on what exactly the Echo is. Here is to hoping that the Echo is shackled currently by its programmers and the future is the limit for this device.

If that prognostication doesn't come to fruition then I think it could spell disaster for the Ceton...
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post #2811 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 06:40 AM
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Okay, whatever.. rolleyes.gif

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post #2812 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Biggen_PCB View Post

Lol. Shortcoming? Yeah, being able to play just about every content under the sun except copy once is (noticed I said "is" since I still own and use 3) a real problem. It's amazing that a brand new piece of technology like the Echo is being compared to a HD-300 Sage extender which is several years old and the Sage extender beats it handly...
I am excited for the release day of the Echo so we can at least see what Ceton truly intends it to do. This public beta has been mishandled so badly that we are all left confused on what exactly the Echo is. Here is to hoping that the Echo is shackled currently by its programmers and the future is the limit for this device.
If that prognostication doesn't come to fruition then I think it could spell disaster for the Ceton...

Agree that Beta has been mishandled. Agree that Ceton shot itself on the foot by announcing far too early and leaving its mods to comment in public forums. Ceton can't have it both ways, if its going to open its product to public discussion to generate interest then it will be open to public interpretation/expectation of its features and criticism

My thoughts: Ceton originally planned to make advanced video features (playing most media types, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video etc) through "Q". "Q" would have been a heavily improved version of WMC with all features we are looking for. Echo was planned to be an extender that connects to "Q" and make them available to users on TV. I agree its a great plan. Users will be forced to buy "Q" to get the features and would position the company perfectly.

With "Q" on-hold or killed Echo is no better than a simple extender and there is simply no way to provide these features. If all Echo is doing is connecting to WMC as an extender then it is no better than xbox. My sense is that this is what we are going to get with Echo until a decision is made on Q

Ceton: Go back to drawing board. Echo should boot as a media player with ability to play majority of media types and sites listed above. There should be a setting to automatically connect to Media Center at startup similar to xbox.

Note: I cancelled my pre-order with NewEgg today. I will wait to see what I am getting before committing to $160.
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post #2813 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cnewsgrp View Post

Agree that Beta has been mishandled. Agree that Ceton shot itself on the foot by announcing far too early and leaving its mods to comment in public forums. Ceton can't have it both ways, if its going to open its product to public discussion to generate interest then it will be open to public interpretation/expectation of its features and criticism
My thoughts: Ceton originally planned to make advanced video features (playing most media types, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video etc) through "Q". "Q" would have been a heavily improved version of WMC with all features we are looking for. Echo was planned to be an extender that connects to "Q" and make them available to users on TV. I agree its a great plan. Users will be forced to buy "Q" to get the features and would position the company perfectly.

Seems like something that would be pretty easy for Ceton to clarify.

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post #2814 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 09:09 AM
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It seems like the Echo's market is more limited if it *doesn't* have pretty good local network streaming support. There are already 70 million Xbox 360's out there. I certainly understand the advantage of a smaller, lower-power extender, but I don't think a lot of existing Xbox users would get a similarly-priced Echo just to get the same feature-set. A more full-featured extender could pull over more new users from Sage/BeyondTV/MythTV/NextPVR/MediaPortal/etc. But, I sort of understand the difficulties the WMC framework presented. I don't fully understand it, but I get certain things (like DVD/blu-ray menus) probably aren't technically feasible. Having a separate mode for local network streaming might have been a good work-around, though.

I do wish Ceton would be more specific about capabilities and specs, though. I now understand why listing container support was problematic. But, they should be able to say what bitrates and H.264 levels they will support. Without knowing that, how will be know whether or not Ceton will consider the Echo not being able to play full-bitrate blu-ray rips a bug or not? The chip they're using supports it, but would/will Ceton?
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post #2815 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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... But, they should be able to say what bitrates and H.264 levels they will support. Without knowing that, how will be know whether or not Ceton will consider the Echo not being able to play full-bitrate blu-ray rips a bug or not? The chip they're using supports it, but would/will Ceton?

They can't at this point, JMO, but I don't think they really know yet. They are still designing this. The Q put them in a bit of a perdicament I think, and are now scrambleing to catch up. At least I hope that is what is happening. If the HD testing and implementaiton has not been done/tested at some level, then I am speechless. Perhaps we will find out later this week if we get more updates (FW).

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post #2816 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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What program do you use to wrap your files in .wtv?

I use a program called Auto Rip n Compress. It uses Make MKV to pull the movie off the disc and then I believe it uses ToDVRMS to wrap it in a .WTV. They have a standalone program that can sit on your desktop or there is a plug in for WMC. You can set it up so that every time you insert a disc it rips it and wraps it. I also use Media Center Master to grab the metadata automatically and MediaBrowser as my interface on my HTPC. Since I am using .WTV I can also use my extenders and I have full FF/RW and MediaBrowser remembers where I left off. All in all, I find it to be a very complete setup that works very well for both me and my family. I was hoping the Echo would add Netflix/Amazon Prime just so I could have that all in one box that everyone else is looking for


http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/25/t/81697.aspx
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post #2817 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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My thoughts: Ceton originally planned to make advanced video features (playing most media types, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Video etc) through "Q". "Q" would have been a heavily improved version of WMC with all features we are looking for. Echo was planned to be an extender that connects to "Q" and make them available to users on TV. I agree its a great plan. Users will be forced to buy "Q" to get the features and would position the company perfectly.
With "Q" on-hold or killed Echo is no better than a simple extender and there is simply no way to provide these features. If all Echo is doing is connecting to WMC as an extender then it is no better than xbox. My sense is that this is what we are going to get with Echo until a decision is made on Q

I'm doubting that more and more. In particular, Netflix/Hulu/Amazon streaming seems particularly unlikely. You're suggesting the Q was going to be a required go-between for the extenders to access those sources. As far as I know, there are no existing video streamers that work that way (at least, "official" streamers, PlayOn doesn't count), and I would think getting DRM to work in something like that would be fairly unlikely.

For the WMC functionality, I kind of doubt Ceton would have been in a position to make non-trivial changes to the way WMC works. Sure, they could have added splitters on the Q so that MKV support would work out-of-the-box, and they could have had a blu-ray player launch when a disc was inserted, but I think they would have had to work within the contraints of WMC. As far as I know, the Windows 7/8 Embedded licenses don't give you source code you can edit to change OS-level functionality (like you could do with WinCE).
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post #2818 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 09:46 AM
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Dual Boot is the only remedy..

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post #2819 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Dual Boot is the only remedy..
Dual boot wouldn't be a cure for everything. If Netflix, Amazon, and other streaming partners won't work with them, there's no way to add support for that content. Someone already mentioned that Netflix requires something like plans to sell 100,000 units before they'll work with you. I don't know what the requirements are for Amazon, but I do know that Amazon has been unwilling to work with Oppo so far and I'm pretty sure that Oppo is selling a lot more Bluray players than Ceton will sell Echos. So while dual boot could potentially allow them to do local network streaming and provide support for DVD and Bluray menus (at least at some level), it still won't turn the Echo into a 1 stop shop for everything.
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post #2820 of 7721 Old 11-06-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Dual Boot is the only remedy..

Ceton has stated that they are planning for the browser to handle this and when Netflix supports HTML5 that will be the solution. Not much of a solution but that was their answer. That was a public release in there blog IIRC. They also mentioned adding a browser prior to release.

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