Ceton Q DVR-HTPC Info Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 324 Old 09-24-2012, 11:31 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
hogues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

That's for the Echo, not the Q.

Last paragraph: "We’ll send an update with the final Ceton Echo version 1 technical specs as well as an update on the Ceton Q at the end of this month, before the Echo beta ordering process starts."

hogues is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 324 Old 09-24-2012, 12:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Okay. I wonder if they'll announce the release date this week too?

Sammy2 is offline  
post #273 of 324 Old 09-24-2012, 12:41 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
hogues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Okay. I wonder if they'll announce the release date this week too?

I hope so, my htpc is getting a little long in the tooth and I would love to be able to simplify it a bit.

hogues is offline  
post #274 of 324 Old 10-02-2012, 07:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
hogues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Bad news. From their letter:

"Since previewing the Q at CES in January we’ve learned more about Microsoft’s plans for Windows Embedded, the operating system on which the Ceton Q is based (at CES we demonstrated the Q running on Windows Embedded Standard 7). While Windows Media Center is available with the consumer version of Windows 8, it is still unclear whether Media Center will be offered in the next version of Windows Embedded. We expected that question would have been resolved by now but it’s hasn’t. So, what to do???

We’ve been discussing a few different options internally for a while and frankly we haven’t decided the best path forward yet. What we have decided is that the Ceton Q as previewed at CES will not launch this year as we planned 10 months ago. It’s possible the Q will launch in 2013, either as initially envisioned or perhaps re-envisioned, but we can’t guarantee that at this point. We know there is a ton of interest in the Q and that this news will be disappointing to a lot of you but we think it’s important to be upfront about where things stand.

Ultimately, we want to make sure that we deliver great products that customers will love for years to come. Given the flux at Microsoft around some of the key components we were relying on, we simply don’t feel we can do that with the Q at this point."

hogues is offline  
post #275 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 04:24 AM
Senior Member
 
snappjay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
... so, why not release it with Win7 Embedded? Or am I missing something...?
snappjay is offline  
post #276 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 07:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
I don't see this as bad news.. maybe a Linux based solution with CableLabs certification is what will happen. Of course integrating that with the Echo might be a bit more tricky, but it can be done. As far as Win7 Embedded, it could be that MS may no longer be licensing it.

Sammy2 is offline  
post #277 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 07:16 AM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,538
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

As far as Win7 Embedded, it could be that MS may no longer be licensing it.
I'm pretty sure they are still licensing it, but the concern Ceton may have is over long term availability of licenses. I have no idea what an embedded license costs, but it probably isn't viable for Ceton to purchase a huge number of licenses now anticipating they'll use them over the next N years. And uncertainty over whether WMC will be available for Win8 Embedded doesn't put them into a good position for a transition plan.

Though I see it as extremely unlikely, one of the best case scenarios would be for Ceton to find a way to purchase WMC from Microsoft and take over development of it as some others have already suggested.

In the meantime while they sort out their plans for the Q, perhaps they'll consider finally releasing the InfiniTV 6 so those of us who want them can purchase them.
gsr is offline  
post #278 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 07:43 AM
Senior Member
 
Jakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I don't see this as bad news..

My take. The Q sounded like a fantastic product that I had very high hopes for and was very interested in buying. Now, vaporware. It it ever comes to market it will be at least 2014 and I will likely be just about to break even on a Tivo Premiere XL4 (with lifetime) + multiple Tivo Minis that I now intend to purchase in an attempt to have the whole home DVR setup that I desire while no longer paying anyone a "tax" to have it. I think this is terrible news. I don't think the Tivo setup will be anywhere near the potential of the Q+Echos setup that I was hoping to have, but at least Tivo is delivering it to market. Just saying.
gonzo90017 likes this.
Jakes is offline  
post #279 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 07:54 AM
Senior Member
 
snappjay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
The whole WMC platform has a very dim future. Ceton knows this. This was a good business decision to shelf the Q.

The next step for the company needs to involve open source, like MythTV. Their business plan revolves around Microsoft's business plan, which is moving far, far away from cable TV.

Just my $0.02.
snappjay is offline  
post #280 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 08:02 AM
Senior Member
 
Jakes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Boston, MA USA
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
From Ceton's perspective, I get it. I don't question the business decision at all, I'm just disappointed in the outcome. For now, I will continue to shell out ~$50 month to FiOS to rent their STB's. Hurry up Tivo, please!
Jakes is offline  
post #281 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 08:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
NickTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Posts: 1,739
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 92
Well this is very anti-climactic. rolleyes.gifwink.gif
NickTheGreat is offline  
post #282 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 10:30 AM
Member
 
JLOB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Stonington, Connecticut
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I wonder if they'd sell any of the demo units!
JLOB is offline  
post #283 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 11:12 AM
Senior Member
 
mcturkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

The whole WMC platform has a very dim future. Ceton knows this. This was a good business decision to shelf the Q.
The next step for the company needs to involve open source, like MythTV. Their business plan revolves around Microsoft's business plan, which is moving far, far away from cable TV.
Just my $0.02.

Agreed - MythTV or XBMC would be a great platform to work with. The hard part would be securing CableLabs certification. They would also need to add the framework into either of those platforms to support extenders, which neither currently really have a capability for.
mcturkey is offline  
post #284 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 11:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
erickotz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Agreed - MythTV or XBMC would be a great platform to work with. The hard part would be securing CableLabs certification. They would also need to add the framework into either of those platforms to support extenders, which neither currently really have a capability for.
To clarify, the DRIR (the software that displays the video) does not need CL certification. It only needs to use an approved DRM mechansm (I believe the only approved ones are WM-DRM, Real Helix, and DTCP) and pass whatever approval is required to implement that DRM by the DRM owner.
Unfortunately, due to how DRM works, it is basically impossible for open source software to meet the DRM requirements - the best-case scenario would be for the DRM to be handled by a closed-source, "binary blob" that integrated with the open-source software.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
erickotz is offline  
post #285 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 03:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
vurbano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Newport News, VA
Posts: 7,559
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
They should put out he Q with windows 7. Could care less about windows 8. So much for any sales numbers this holiday season.
gonzo90017 likes this.
vurbano is offline  
post #286 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 03:38 PM
Senior Member
 
mcturkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

To clarify, the DRIR (the software that displays the video) does not need CL certification. It only needs to use an approved DRM mechansm (I believe the only approved ones are WM-DRM, Real Helix, and DTCP) and pass whatever approval is required to implement that DRM by the DRM owner.
Unfortunately, due to how DRM works, it is basically impossible for open source software to meet the DRM requirements - the best-case scenario would be for the DRM to be handled by a closed-source, "binary blob" that integrated with the open-source software.

Well, I would certainly hope that you guys are taking a serious look at that option as a plug-in of sorts for XBMC (doubt the MythTV folks will ever go for anything closed-source, but maybe I'm wrong). Given the number of platforms that support XBMC, that could open up a significant market for more tuner sales, while also freeing you from the shackles of being tied into the Windows/WMC ecosystem.
mcturkey is offline  
post #287 of 324 Old 10-03-2012, 03:54 PM
 
cybrsage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 8,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Though I see it as extremely unlikely, one of the best case scenarios would be for Ceton to find a way to purchase WMC from Microsoft and take over development of it as some others have already suggested.
In the meantime while they sort out their plans for the Q, perhaps they'll consider finally releasing the InfiniTV 6 so those of us who want them can purchase them.

Ceton buying WMC would be the best thing to happen to WMC since it was invented. Seriously, that would rock!
cybrsage is offline  
post #288 of 324 Old 10-04-2012, 01:38 PM
Member
 
uthijacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ceton announces slight delay for Echo WMC extender, Q DVR shelved indefinitely.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/02/ceton-echo-delay-q-dvr-on-hold/
uthijacker is offline  
post #289 of 324 Old 10-04-2012, 01:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mdavej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,928
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 407 Post(s)
Liked: 376
I think it would be worthwhile for everyone who cares about this to appeal to Microsoft to support WMC in Win 7 (or 8) embedded. Ceton is alone in their quest to get this done, but some public pressure may have an impact. I don't know how best to do it, but it needs to be done.

The biggest problem is timing. A few years ago when media center first appeared, there were no cable card tuners to take advantage, so it sort of languished, MS lost interest and now it's a dying product. But now that their are lots of tuners available, and with the bad economy and ever increasing cable fees, WMC is really on the cusp of taking off again IMO. It definitely deserves a second chance in the marketplace, and MS could use some convincing.
mdavej is offline  
post #290 of 324 Old 10-06-2012, 09:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 4,371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Well, I would certainly hope that you guys are taking a serious look at that option as a plug-in of sorts for XBMC (doubt the MythTV folks will ever go for anything closed-source, but maybe I'm wrong). Given the number of platforms that support XBMC, that could open up a significant market for more tuner sales, while also freeing you from the shackles of being tied into the Windows/WMC ecosystem.
Myth already works with closed source drivers from nVidia/ATI and a variety of tuner cards, so that's not the issue. As eric said, someone would have to write the closed-source DRM handler for Myth and get it certified by CableLabs, and that's the issue because it costs money and Linux is by nature anti-DRM. I'm guessing that Ceton is not interested in doing this because Myth (or XBMC) is a niche within a niche for the serious HTPC techies so there's not enough InfiniTV sales in it to make it worth the while.
slowbiscuit is offline  
post #291 of 324 Old 10-06-2012, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
 
mcturkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Myth already works with closed source drivers from nVidia/ATI and a variety of tuner cards, so that's not the issue. As eric said, someone would have to write the closed-source DRM handler for Myth and get it certified by CableLabs, and that's the issue because it costs money and Linux is by nature anti-DRM. I'm guessing that Ceton is not interested in doing this because Myth (or XBMC) is a niche within a niche for the serious HTPC techies so there's not enough InfiniTV sales in it to make it worth the while.

All of HTPC is a niche, really. If WMC is in jeopardy of going away, Ceton would be acting in it's own self-interest to either produce a whole new front-end (costly), or work with XBMC/Myth to get full DRM-capable CableCard support. I'd actually be willing to bet there is a bigger install base for XBMC than people who actively use WMC.
mcturkey is offline  
post #292 of 324 Old 10-06-2012, 10:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: In the ATL
Posts: 4,371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 253
Could be, and that could be the direction they go with the Q - Linux embedded running either Myth or XBMC, funding their own DRM solution with CableLabs. Problem with that is you lose the Xbox as an extender and guide data won't be free anymore - Ceton would have to work out a deal with Schedules Direct or the data provider and pass the cost to the user.
slowbiscuit is offline  
post #293 of 324 Old 10-06-2012, 11:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
If you read the EULA for WMC it specifically states that they can discontinue or charge for the guide data at any time, so there's no guarantees there at all. I'm just patiently waiting for the Echo beta. The Q is going to need to go in a different direction it would seem.

Sammy2 is offline  
post #294 of 324 Old 10-06-2012, 12:53 PM
Senior Member
 
mcturkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Could be, and that could be the direction they go with the Q - Linux embedded running either Myth or XBMC, funding their own DRM solution with CableLabs. Problem with that is you lose the Xbox as an extender and guide data won't be free anymore - Ceton would have to work out a deal with Schedules Direct or the data provider and pass the cost to the user.

True about the guide data, and also for the Xbox. However, I would think that supporting the Echo would be very important. Hopefully the underlying hardware is flexible enough to allow firmware updates that would make it compatible with whatever future solution Ceton may have to pursue.
mcturkey is offline  
post #295 of 324 Old 10-10-2012, 10:53 PM
Senior Member
 
DonTHB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 232
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Perhaps Windows RT could be Windows 8 embedded, if Ceton would convince Microsoft to allow it to port MCE to RT?

CableLabs allows multiple DVRs to be networked. MCE on RT may not require extenders at all. So multiple Qs can be used instead.

If CableLabs would not allow embedded Soft Sled and require extenders the underlying hardware for Qs and Echos could likely be the same (even the planar board) with different number of ARM cores used in each. Echos could optionally have Blu-Ray drives as well.

Linux is nice, but by partnering with Microsoft Ceton may not have to license another DRM scheme.

And RT is designed to support third party development and uses .Net. So, there is potential that software people use with MCE to more easily be ported to RT (ARM).

Just a thought ($.02).
DonTHB is offline  
post #296 of 324 Old 10-11-2012, 12:03 AM
Member
 
hansol89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
so wmc is dead? does ms know if they kept developing it and improving it users would liklely pay $100/yr for it features .....eeek they were so close.....heck they could have made this into xbox live content which is is getting into original programs
hansol89 is offline  
post #297 of 324 Old 10-16-2012, 03:45 PM
Member
 
kcr6419's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Did the FCC's recent decision to allow cable operators to encrypt basic cable channels have something to do with the decision to shelve the Q? One of the stipulations is that cable operators allow access to the unencrypted signal to third party device makers and TV ISPs.

This would basically make some of the existing Q hardware obsolete. This would most likely mean no more CableCARDs!!!
kcr6419 is offline  
post #298 of 324 Old 10-16-2012, 06:44 PM
gsr
Oppo Beta Group
 
gsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 7,538
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcr6419 View Post

Did the FCC's recent decision to allow cable operators to encrypt basic cable channels have something to do with the decision to shelve the Q? One of the stipulations is that cable operators allow access to the unencrypted signal to third party device makers and TV ISPs.
This would basically make some of the existing Q hardware obsolete. This would most likely mean no more CableCARDs!!!
Your logic is backwards, as CableCards are needed to deal with encrypted channels. So, no this decision has absolutely nothing to do with the decision making behind the Q and Ceton's tuners definitely aren't obsolete.
gsr is offline  
post #299 of 324 Old 10-16-2012, 11:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
erickotz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcr6419 View Post

Did the FCC's recent decision to allow cable operators to encrypt basic cable channels have something to do with the decision to shelve the Q? One of the stipulations is that cable operators allow access to the unencrypted signal to third party device makers and TV ISPs.
This would basically make some of the existing Q hardware obsolete. This would most likely mean no more CableCARDs!!!

As others have mentioned, this ruling has no effect on CableCARD tuners (which will continue to receive these channels just fine) - if anything, it might help sales of them.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
erickotz is offline  
post #300 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 12:43 AM
Senior Member
 
rcrach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 265
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 16
I think Ceton is blowing smoke. There's no difference between the version of media center that runs under windows 7 and windows 8. So It doesn't matter if it's running under windows embedded 7 or 8. I built an OTA box with the evaluation version (time limited) of embedded 7 and it ran fantastic with a 5GB footprint on an SSD. There have been at least 4 different boxes announced, either OTA or cable card that missed their announced ship dates and still haven't shipped. So my suspicion is that as OEM license purchasers Microsoft has a responsibility to keep them informed of any changes they would make to the application that might impact their designs and sales prospects and the one piece none of them could afford to lose would be the free guide. Without that they'd have to cut their own deals with Zap2It and then they'd just be in the same space as Tivo who isn't the most profitable company anyway by having to go to a subscription model. I think they either can't get a commitment from Microsoft over continued guide support or they know it's going to be canceled.
rcrach is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off