Ceton Q DVR-HTPC Info Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by rcrach View Post

I think Ceton is blowing smoke. There's no difference between the version of media center that runs under windows 7 and windows 8. So It doesn't matter if it's running under windows embedded 7 or 8.

But does Embedded 8 have Media Center? That seems to be the crux of the issue.

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post #302 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

As others have mentioned, this ruling has no effect on CableCARD tuners (which will continue to receive these channels just fine) - if anything, it might help sales of them.

What incentive will cable companies have to provide them? My understanding is that most cable companies are quite reluctant to support them. I had to talk to several people before anybody even knew what one is. I didn't end up getting one, but I really got the impression they would rather not have them.
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post #303 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

What incentive will cable companies have to provide them? My understanding is that most cable companies are quite reluctant to support them. I had to talk to several people before anybody even knew what one is. I didn't end up getting one, but I really got the impression they would rather not have them.
They may not like them, but the laws / rules they operate under dictate that they MUST offer and support them. They really don't have a choice in the matter.
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post #304 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

What incentive will cable companies have to provide them? My understanding is that most cable companies are quite reluctant to support them. I had to talk to several people before anybody even knew what one is. I didn't end up getting one, but I really got the impression they would rather not have them.

Cable Operators are legally required to support CableCARDs.

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post #305 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Cable Operators are legally required to support CableCARDs.

Then I need to talk to my company again. wink.gifbiggrin.gif
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post #306 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

Then I need to talk to my company again. wink.gifbiggrin.gif

If you have a Ceton InfiniTV and are having difficulty getting a CableCARD, please open a support ticket with us and we will step in. Also please understand that the rule only applies to cable operators (this includes FiOS) - IPTV providers, such as UVerse, are excluded from this.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #307 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

Then I need to talk to my company again. wink.gifbiggrin.gif

If you have Comcast, try going to the actual drop off / pick up stores they use. Most phone personnel can only access what's in their system, and they can only access it as well as they know how to search. I'd have to believe they experience a lot of turnover and therefore we experience a lot of "I've never heard of that, is it like a TiVO?"

Also, Cablecos would rather not be required to provide the cards, because it's highly profitable for them to lease you their crap boxes at 10-20 bucks a month per TV. Fortunately for us, they have to in the US
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post #308 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

If you have a Ceton InfiniTV and are having difficulty getting a CableCARD, please open a support ticket with us and we will step in. Also please understand that the rule only applies to cable operators (this includes FiOS) - IPTV providers, such as UVerse, are excluded from this.

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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

If you have Comcast, try going to the actual drop off / pick up stores they use. Most phone personnel can only access what's in their system, and they can only access it as well as they know how to search. I'd have to believe they experience a lot of turnover and therefore we experience a lot of "I've never heard of that, is it like a TiVO?"
Also, Cablecos would rather not be required to provide the cards, because it's highly profitable for them to lease you their crap boxes at 10-20 bucks a month per TV. Fortunately for us, they have to in the US

Nah, I have Mediacom and no other real choice for cable TV. I looked into the cablecard when I got my last TV in 2006. Like I said, they never 'refused' but weren't real happy about it. And a friend of mine had nothing but bad things to say about his.

But I don't have anything that'd take a cable card at the moment, other than that TV which is now my secondary TV. smile.gif
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post #309 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

Nah, I have Mediacom and no other real choice for cable TV. I looked into the cablecard when I got my last TV in 2006. Like I said, they never 'refused' but weren't real happy about it. And a friend of mine had nothing but bad things to say about his.
But I don't have anything that'd take a cable card at the moment, other than that TV which is now my secondary TV. smile.gif

I know for a fact that we have customers on Mediacom, so you might try dropping by the local office to get a CableCARD.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #310 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

But does Embedded 8 have Media Center? That seems to be the crux of the issue.

I don't think the preview version of embedded 8 included it but it wasn't a complete system like embedded 7 is. I know there was no pre-written answer file to support it in the preview version but that goes to my blowing smoke comment. They shouldn't care. They should easily be able to get at least 5 years of support out of embedded 7 licenses and that is an eternity in the CE business. It would be due for an overhaul by then anyway. Can anyone show me one announced set top box using windows embedded media center that you can actually purchase in the US? I know Reycom sells versions in Europe but the US version is still listed by their US partner LeoNovus as pre-order after almost a year (I take that back, now they request you contact sales for more information...). So I think it's a guide issue. and I think Microsoft doesn't want to subsidize every copy of windows (and embedded) that includes media center with a payment to Zap2It. For the same reason they don't support native DVD in windows 8 they don't want their crown jewel product to be encumbered with all these little dangling third party license payments. It's possibly a contributing reason for reduced pricing on windows 8 vs 7. Merely my opinion.
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post #311 of 324 Old 10-17-2012, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Your logic is backwards, as CableCards are needed to deal with encrypted channels. So, no this decision has absolutely nothing to do with the decision making behind the Q and Ceton's tuners definitely aren't obsolete.

Misread on my part. It's just the basic channels that they must provide over IP based means. There's no provision for decryption all the channels via IP that I could find.

I'll have to get another Infinitv 4 card or two as I have 10 TVs around the house and 8 of them are hooked straight up to cable.

Sounds like Ceton needs to work a solution to replace windows media center with an in-house solution. Maybe that's the reason for the delay rolleyes.gif
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post #312 of 324 Old 10-18-2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erickotz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat View Post

Nah, I have Mediacom and no other real choice for cable TV. I looked into the cablecard when I got my last TV in 2006. Like I said, they never 'refused' but weren't real happy about it. And a friend of mine had nothing but bad things to say about his.
But I don't have anything that'd take a cable card at the moment, other than that TV which is now my secondary TV. smile.gif

I know for a fact that we have customers on Mediacom, so you might try dropping by the local office to get a CableCARD.

I had no problem getting a cable card from Mediacom. In fact they were more than happy to give me one.


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post #313 of 324 Old 10-22-2012, 02:00 PM
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I've been keeping track of when this would be released, and today I visited the Ceton website, and was shocked to find all references to the Q scrapped from the website. Anyone know anything more? I was concerned that the price point for this might make it a tough sell, but I figured that something like this might be a little more reliable and user-friendly than a homemade HTPC.
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post #314 of 324 Old 10-22-2012, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oriolesmagic View Post

I've been keeping track of when this would be released, and today I visited the Ceton website, and was shocked to find all references to the Q scrapped from the website. Anyone know anything more? I was concerned that the price point for this might make it a tough sell, but I figured that something like this might be a little more reliable and user-friendly than a homemade HTPC.

The project has been put on hold because it's not clear yet whether Microsoft will support Windows Media Center on the next version of Windows Embedded.
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post #315 of 324 Old 10-22-2012, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

The project has been put on hold because it's not clear yet whether Microsoft will support Windows Media Center on the next version of Windows Embedded.

"Put on hold" ... uh , I think a bit of reading between the lines would indicate that "scrapped" would be more like it for both the Q and WMC .

That was just Cetons polite , political way of saying bye ,bye to the product . Microsoft has not been quite as polite when it comes to WMC
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post #316 of 324 Old 10-22-2012, 02:45 PM
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My HTPC is very reliable.. pretty much an appliance. Personally I don't need the Q but know people that could benefit from one at a reasonable price.

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post #317 of 324 Old 10-22-2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by flocko View Post

"Put on hold" ... uh , I think a bit of reading between the lines would indicate that "scrapped" would be more like it for both the Q and WMC .
That was just Cetons polite , political way of saying bye ,bye to the product . Microsoft has not been quite as polite when it comes to WMC

Well Ceton made it sound like Microsoft hadn't decided yet whether they would support WMC or not. If they do decide to support it, then why wouldn't Ceton continue development? Maybe I completely misread that. Honestly, considering Microsoft isn't that interested in WMC anymore, it seems likely that they will drop it, but I don't know what's going on at Redmond.
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post #318 of 324 Old 10-22-2012, 03:17 PM
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Ya, I'm not a Red insider either but when ever I hear those "polite" where putting this or that on hold , history tells it means ba , bye . Frustrating for all of us that like WMC and the thought of the Q . Disappointment

Sorry ... frustrated . We get so little hardware and good , NEW software directly aimed at htpc use .
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post #319 of 324 Old 10-25-2012, 08:58 PM
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Apparently Microsoft has something called Windows Server 2012 for Embedded Systems. Would be an interesting base for a television gateway/home server like device. Unlike using RT for a "Q" all the drivers should work on it. Should be possible to use Media Center from 8 Pro on it--if Microsoft permits.

Server Appliance requirements:

Processor Minimum:
1.4GHz x64 processor
Memory Minimum:
512MB RAM
Available Disk Space Minimum:
32 GB
Note: 32GB should be considered an absolute minimum value for successful installation. Computers with more than 16GB of RAM will require more disk space for paging, hibernation, and dump files
Cost (USD)*:
Contact a Microsoft Authorized Embedded Distributor for details
Support:
10-year product support lifecycle**

However, wouldn't be surprised if this all has to do with the rumored next Xbox. The device could include network tuner support with recordings to be stored on Windows 8 machines and not require 8 Pro. Recording from the Xbox could be copied in the background when network bandwidth is lower (like WHS). Xbox would stream on its own, but you need an Xbox with a HD or SSD and a Windows 8 machine to record TV. Making extenders unnecessary. If the Xbox includes a Blu-ray drive could be interesting.

Of course the primary reason for Ceton to stick with Microsoft is support for DRM. But any other CableLabs authorized DRM scheme would put Ceton in a similar position.
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post #320 of 324 Old 10-26-2012, 05:07 AM
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There is also Windows Embedded Standard 8, which was just released as a preview a few days ago. But so far the previous beta's lacked Windows Media Center, and it's probably not in the current preview either. And from what I gather MS hasn't said if they would add it to WES8. It was in WES7, and that's what was initially used for the Q prototypes... from what initial reviews said at least. I use WES7 on my HTPC at home... I was trying to make my own little Q like system smile.gif
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post #321 of 324 Old 10-26-2012, 07:21 PM
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Where did you get your unexpiring version of Windows 7 Standard Embedded? Was there a minimum number of licenses included? Did you tweak it to restrict what was included in your install?

Thanks.
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post #322 of 324 Old 11-14-2012, 10:40 AM
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post #323 of 324 Old 11-14-2012, 10:58 AM
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Where does it say media center is included in WE8?
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post #324 of 324 Old 11-14-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

Where does it say media center is included in WE8?

It doesn't say. Or at least I didn't see it either. Windows 8 Pro is the version that has the Media Center option, isn't it? I'm not sure if we can infer that it'd be included in the WE8 Pro version or not, but a guy can dream, can't he?
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