With the new 48 and 60 fps movies. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 52 Old 01-28-2012, 09:42 AM
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glad I saw this, pssht, I will need a new blu ray drive. Forget it. I was actually thinking about buying some blu rays and I can tell that will be a waste of money. Stream at whatever quality and rent at redbox. Do not own anything.
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post #32 of 52 Old 01-28-2012, 12:39 PM
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are there any samples of 48p video around?
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post #33 of 52 Old 01-28-2012, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbordas View Post

are there any samples of 48p video around?

If all you're interested in is looking for motion artifacts then just watch some 50p PAL videos and you'll get a good idea of what the motion will look like on 48p film.
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post #34 of 52 Old 01-28-2012, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Is Imax digital now or are they still shooting on film?

IMAX has started playing around with Digital. The IMAX film Born to Be Wild was shot with a digital camera that is a proprietary design that IMAX came up themselves.

I saw it and it looked OK to me. But, it was in 3D which, IMHO, causes so many aritifacts/issues that it's really impossible to judge just how good it was compared to IMAX film. At least it wasn't distractingly bad.
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post #35 of 52 Old 01-29-2012, 11:26 PM
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HDMI 1.5 anyone? Or are we going to displayport for video use as well?
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post #36 of 52 Old 01-29-2012, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post

glad I saw this, pssht, I will need a new blu ray drive. Forget it. I was actually thinking about buying some blu rays and I can tell that will be a waste of money. Stream at whatever quality and rent at redbox. Do not own anything.

Well, for new material, I agree, but old film will always be 24p. Should have a way to get full HD 3D at 24p each eye out of this too.
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post #37 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undermined View Post

48fps has been proposed since cameras and projectors used for cinema can already handle it and the added fps will reduce judder as compared to just 24fps.

60fps is being pushed by James Cameron for its greater ability to handle motion and again, cameras can do it already and video already being 60fps so rolling it out will sorta fit into workflows.

and HDMI 1.4a can do 4K, but is limited to 3840x2160@24fps

I personally want displays that can take 4K input signals @60hz or at least 1080p@120 and not just the same 60hz we have now.

It is stupid to think a given panel is native 120hz or even 240hz and the highest i can feed it from a PC is 60Hz.

Display port 1.2 can handle the increase already and technically could allow direct addressing of the pixels from the GPU but most displays only have HDMI without even a option to do 120hz from a PC.

Gaming GPUs can already handle 4K and and if the industry want early adopters to but 4k displays it is kinda stupid to think they should only give us displays that will just upscale everything and we'll be happy with that versus allowing native format from a PC since no other source is out there .

Why would a PC limit you to 60hz? We were playing Quake III back in the at at 100+ hz...

In terms of LFE, size does matter!
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post #38 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle View Post

Why would a PC limit you to 60hz? We were playing Quake III back in the at at 100+ hz...

Digital connections are the limiting factor here, HDMI is limited to 60Hz.
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post #39 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 08:55 AM
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Most HDMI 1.4 3D TVs already support 48p don't they?
24hz frame packed 3d is sent to the TV at 48hz.

I just created a custom resolution for my Vizio and 48p syncs up nicely.
It disables all of the TVs advance video processing 'features'. Which is good IMO.

Haven't found any videos to test yet.. Maybe ffdshow's frame rate doubler will work for a test. I'll try it later.
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post #40 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 10:58 AM
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The 24HZ frame packed 3D buffer is sent at 24HZ. I assume that your reference t0 48HZ is due to the buffer contains both the left and right frame information.
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post #41 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbordas View Post

are there any samples of 48p video around?

There's a "hand-made" version (which means interpolation options varies for each scene to minimize arts) of Avatar @60Hz (720p). There.

The direct link to .torrent at the top of the page.
Video: 1280x720, 15000kbps, 59.94fps
Audio: English DTS-HD МА, 5.1, 48 kHz, 24-bit, 4146 kbps
Size: 22.37 GB
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post #42 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 12:26 PM
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@walford

Not sure to be honest.

It's my understanding that what you see is updated at 24hz in 3d mode. But the TV and video card are both running at 48hz.
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post #43 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 01:30 PM
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You are the one who determines what you video card runs at.
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post #44 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac The Knife View Post

If all you're interested in is looking for motion artifacts then just watch some 50p PAL videos and you'll get a good idea of what the motion will look like on 48p film.

If you're looking for 720/50p content - then SVT (Swedish national broadcaster), NRK (Norwegian national broadcaster), ARD/ZDF (German national broadcasters) all broadcast in this format.

Most of their online streaming (some of it not geo-restricted) is 25p though.

SVT shot a costume drama at 50Hz rather than 25Hz - I have it on DVD. Very strange - excellent filmic lighting and depth of field, but double the image rate!
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post #45 of 52 Old 01-30-2012, 04:51 PM
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@walford
True but when my TV said 48hz in 3D I thought it was reporting the video card hz correctly. It's not, It's reporting the video frames as you said.


I did not find any 48hz video. But I did play back a few 24hz with ffdsows frame rate doubler set to just duplicate frames.

I made a custom 1920x1080x48hz resolution on my 560ti.
No dropped frames in the 30 minutes or so I left it running. Looked just as good as 24hz to me.
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post #46 of 52 Old 02-01-2012, 01:57 PM
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Whatever happens with frame rates I'm not spending a whole bunch more to upgrade a relatively new Home Theater I've assembled over the last 5 years to replace my old one dating back to DVD in 1997. It will be AT LEAST 5 more years before I do another upgrade.

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post #47 of 52 Old 02-02-2012, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

The 24HZ frame packed 3D buffer is sent at 24HZ. I assume that your reference t0 48HZ is due to the buffer contains both the left and right frame information.

Are there no "3D modes" that allow full 1080p per eye? At what rates do they operate?

-k
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post #48 of 52 Old 02-02-2012, 06:32 AM
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Frame Packing allows for 1080p @ 24Hz, however its not running at 48Hz, its just transmitting both images in one go, 24 pairs per second. For synchronisation this is important, both images need to be presented to the viewer at the same time, so you have to run it on 24 Hz.
A Top-and-Bottom operation mode would also allow for 1080p @ 24Hz.

All other modes either go to 720p or 1080i (half vertical resolution)
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post #49 of 52 Old 02-02-2012, 10:56 AM
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Theaters play 24fps film content by showing each frame twice in 1/48th of a second. Also the 24fps cameras only open their lens for 1/48th of a second
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post #50 of 52 Old 02-02-2012, 01:38 PM
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The two posts above did not answer my question clearly. When viewing "3D" across HDMI, is it possible to get full 1080p resolution per eye, and >= 24frames/eye/second?

If so, then HDMI must allow for a total of 48 frames per second transmitted, each at a resolution of 1920x1080. Perhaps packed as approximately 2000x2000 pixels at 24fps or whatever. This would seem to be a possible mechanism to transmit 1080p48.

-k
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post #51 of 52 Old 02-02-2012, 01:56 PM
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Most US 3D TVs take the 1080p/24fps left and right eye fields they receive in the 1920x2024 packed frame buffer and convert them to 1080p/60fps using 3:2 pulldown prior to displaying them.
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post #52 of 52 Old 02-03-2012, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knutinh View Post

The two posts above did not answer my question clearly. When viewing "3D" across HDMI, is it possible to get full 1080p resolution per eye, and >= 24frames/eye/second?

Actually, the posts did answer the question, you apparently missed it however.
So especially for you, in short: Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by knutinh View Post

If so, then HDMI must allow for a total of 48 frames per second transmitted, each at a resolution of 1920x1080. Perhaps packed as approximately 2000x2000 pixels at 24fps or whatever. This would seem to be a possible mechanism to transmit 1080p48.

In short: No.

Longer answer:
In theory sure, it transmits 48 pictures per second (really 24 picture pairs, there is a distinct difference)
In practice, it'll *never* be used to do that without 3D. There is a whole load of technical problems (timing issues to begin with), and of course someone official would have to define a standard for everyone to implement - which is even less likely.

HDMI already has enough bandwidth to just transport 1080p48 as is (up to 1080p60 even), without some hacked packing, its far easier to just start supporting that instead of resorting to some rather ugly hacked format. Alot of TVs can probably already do that, you just have to use your HTPC to create a 48p custom resolution, because there is no standard resolution yet.
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