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Old 02-26-2012, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid-State View Post

He says with Intel onboard HDMI and DVI to HDMI adapter into two TMDS sinks he yes has two audio devices appear BUT he can only send audio to one of them at a time

I don't know what's wrong with his setup. Simultaneous two audio streams from a *single* GPU (over HDMI and DVI+a DVI-HDMI adapter) has been no problem in my various test systems (I mean I can hear sounds from two different sources via two sets of speakers simultaneously). GPU supporting this feature are:

- GPU in Intel Clarkdale/Sandy Bridge.
- NVIDIA GeForce 210/220/240 and all GPU after that (all support multichannel LPCM, but some do not support TrueHD/DD+/DTS-HD).
- Radeon HD 7900/7700 series.

Audio in the TMDS signal does not need to come from the same source as video (although one usually wants to transmit audio and video from a single source over a single HDMI; an important exception is HDMI 1.4a 3D [frame packing] + HDMI 1.3 AVR, where 3D video is sent over a HDMI cable and audio over another HDMI cable). For example, I can use TMT and MPC HomeCinema (LAV audio decoder) to play back two BD ISOs simultaneously like this:

- Video from MPC HomeCinema + audio from TMT -> over HDMI -> AVR1+display1+speakers1
- Video from TMT + audio from MPC HomeCinema -> over HDMI (with a DVI-HDMI adapter) -> AVR2+display2+speakers2

Again this can be done with a single GPU. Processing two video streams by a single GPU is another story. The current AMD/NVIDIA/Intel video decoder can decode two 1080p24 videos simutaneously with no problem. But decoding/deinterlacing two 1080i60 videos is problematic. So in general I recommend using two GPUs for dual video/audio streams for best PQ (sound is no problem).

This is not a mere theory. I actually did test.
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I don't know what's wrong with his setup. Simultaneous two audio streams from a *single* GPU (over HDMI and DVI+a DVI-HDMI adapter) has been no problem in my various test systems (I mean I can hear sounds from two different sources via two sets of speakers simultaneously). GPU supporting this feature are:

- GPU in Intel Clarkdale/Sandy Bridge.
- NVIDIA GeForce 210/220/240 and all GPU after that (all support multichannel LPCM, but some do not support TrueHD/DD+/DTS-HD).
- Radeon HD 7900/7700 series.

Audio in the TMDS signal does not need to come from the same source as video (although one usually wants to transmit audio and video from a single source over a single HDMI). For example, I can use TMT and MPC HomeCinema (LAV audio decoder) to play back two BD ISOs simultaneously like this:

- Video from MPC HomeCinema + audio from TMT -> over HDMI -> AVR1+display1+speakers1
- Video from TMT + audio from MPC HomeCinema -> over HDMI (with a DVI-HDMI adapter) -> AVR2+display2+speakers2

Again this can be done with a single GPU. Processing two video streams by a single GPU is another story. The current AMD/NVIDIA/Intel video decoder can decode two 1080p24 videos simultaneously with no problem. But decoding/deinterlacing two 1080i60 videos is problematic. So in general I recommend using two GPUs for dual video/audio streams for best PQ (sound is no problem).

This is not a mere theory. I actually did test.

Well I officially stand corrected on that!

I bow to Assassin and you then renethx. In that post he references though you're using two cards and I do understand how you're routing it using that graph. That's very cool! I'm also very surprised that AACS and PVP/PAP/PUMA support that!

AMAZING

LOL

It still isn't going to stop me from tomorrow giving this a try on a friends system with two TVs.

LOL

To "confirm"...



I thought GT200 series had an SP/DIF input header that comes from a DISCRETE soundcard like onboard etc. That would be two sound devices, the video card and onboard being used even though audio is coming outta the HDMI and DVI sockets on the SINGLE GPU. I could see that and graphics card audio solution providing two audio streams but just one GPU providing two audio output devices... WOW AMAZING

I don't get why vendors don't advertise that feature. If I thought that was possible then I MIGHT be using nVidia graphics adapters but it looks like AMD can do this as well with HD7000 series GPUs according to you.

That's really a fantastic feature!

PS if you can share the thread were you test this I'm most interested in learning about it
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Old 02-26-2012, 11:56 PM
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There are three kinds of GeForce 200 series cards:

- GTS 250: a rename of GTX 9800 GTX+ (G92b), the original Tesla architecture (GeForce 8 & 9 series); VP2, DX10, no HD audio controller (S/PDIF pass-through only)
- GTX 260 and higher: Tesla Gen2, VP2, DX10, no HD audio controller (S/PDIF pass-through only)
- G210, GT 220, GT 240: Tesla Gen2, VP4, DX10.1, built-in HD audio controller (multichannel LPCM, DD and DTS)

HDMI audio summary:

(I need to test more for the blank cells.)
LL
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:27 AM
 
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WOW renethx !!!

Thanks for posting that fantastic chart!

That completely clarifies everything.

Do you have any more info on "dual stream" audio?

In every piece of literature and white paper I read when they say "dual stream" they are making reference to decoding two VC1 or H.264 muxes IE picture in picture bluray and there is no mention of discrete audio devices.

I guess they don't need to be discrete devices but be discrete TMDS xmiter and the audio chip/section of GPU is really is a PVP PAP encoder in the chain. I would guess they really aren't DSPs and they obviously are not converters.

Thanks for sharing this info and teaching me something I didn't know you two!

And please forgive my cynicism and tone. LOL

Do you have any technical white papers about these features?
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:36 AM
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There is no DSP in the device/driver. "HD audio codec" in these GPU is pretty simple. For TrueHD/DTS-HD bitstreaming, only AVR can do DSP. For multichannel LPCM, only 48kHz/24bit or higher is required to be encrypted in user accessible bus and only the player (TMT, PowerDVD or WinDVD or any other AACS compliant one) can do DSP in software mode (as well as AVR of course). For 48kHz/16bit (and 48kHz/24bit coming from a media player such as MPC HomeCinema), Windows Audio Engine can do DSP.

NVIDIA's article: HDMI Audio on NVIDIA GPUs

Quote:


6.1.3. Chipset or first GPU configuration with 8-channel support, multi-stream

This configuration is used in MCP89, and all GeForce GPUs that contain an HD-audio controller, and not explicitly described below as containing a newer configuration.

Each connector the GPU supports has its own converter and pin-complex. When playing audio, one must choose the ALSA device that corresponds to the connector to which your monitor is attached.

Each 8-channel converter supports 2, 4, 6, or 8-channel streams.

Only 2 displays, and hence two audio streams, may be active at once.

6.1.4. Second GPU configuration with 8-channel support, multi-stream

...

Section 6.1.4 refers to GeForce GT 520 (the last GPU based on Fermi) and the upcoming GPUs based on Kepler. BTW MCP89 mGPU (motherboard GPU [NVIDIA's term]) in section 6.1.3 was planned as a successor to GeForce 9300/9400/ION mGPU but has never been released.

AMD GPU had been limited to single audio stream until the recent release of HD 7900/7700 series GPU. Its multiple audio stream feature is called Discrete Digital Multi-Point Audio (DDMA) and looks beyond simple multiple audio stream (I haven't understood it yet).
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:38 AM
 
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ok I found a...

GURU!!!

110% of my attention is yours renethx!

Thanks for the details regarding user accessible bus and ACSS as it pertains to DSP in software like local decode of lossless codecs in ACSS compliant apps. I was aware of the sample rate/bit depth encryption limitation to some extent but not exact details based on bit depth.

Also thanks a lot for the link to the nVidia white paper. I really really appreciate it as I'm always trying to learn and keep on top of this stuff and I've sorta been outta the HTPC loop and wanna get back in. It's a fantastic paper as well Stephen Warren!
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:45 AM
 
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Also I'd like to take this opportunity to whole heartily apologize for my tone with you Assassin.

And with this in hand...

Quote:


Each connector the GPU supports has its own converter and pin-complex.

And this image...



You are 100% RIGHT and I'm 110% WRONG about newer generation nVidia GPU solutions Assassin.

It's worth noting though that even if you have four HDMI audio sinks on the card it only supports two at a time for audio. renethx I'm curious how this video buffering between displays setup with 4 HDMI sinks would affect the two stream limitation. What if two displays are to dual view and the other two are clones of those. How would that affect it if at all?

PS thanks Stephen Warren I now know just about everything regarding the audio architecture of your GPUs... BETTER than ATI isn't it! It took the nVidia Linux ALSA guys to write a white paper to explain it to a ******** like me!
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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There are actually quite a few people on avs that know what they are doing and have actually done a lot of research on how hardware pertains to the htpc platform. This place is a great resource.

I will just keep it at that.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:23 AM
 
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Well I conceed you're correct Assassin but the examples and explinations you sighted didn't due your point justice and wasn't relevent information. Now renethx comes in here and in two posts explains it fully.

The examples and explanations you sighted gave me the impression you didn't really understand...

I will just keep it at that.
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Old 02-27-2012, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the insult once again.

I am done.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:14 PM
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His opinion is not valid. Keep up your good work.

"The purpose of diplomacy is to prolong a crisis." Spock, Mark of Gideon, TOS
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:37 AM
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If anyone has any suggestion on how to get 7MC to stream 2 channels that would be awesome. I have two monitors. I have Ceton tuner. But am limited to one channel on HTPC. I only need one audio feed, haha, but would love to have two hockey/baseball/soccer/football games playing at the same time.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:46 PM
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any progress assassin ?

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Old 03-05-2012, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Still building. Had some changes that we and the customer made.

These type of builds take time.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:32 PM
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Has been OOF for two weeks and now I see my question a few pages ago started a new discussion :-)

Anyway, thanks to Rene I now can have both my TV and Receiver using different digital outputs. The Receiver can play True HD, DTS MA while the TV is stuck with stereo 2.0 via DVI. All that without a reboot!

I am using an Asus fanless GT430.
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbez View Post

Has been OOF for two weeks and now I see my question a few pages ago started a new discussion :-)

Anyway, thanks to Rene I now can have both my TV and Receiver using different digital outputs. The Receiver can play True HD, DTS MA while the TV is stuck with stereo 2.0 via DVI. All that without a reboot!

I am using an Asus fanless GT430.

Yep. Pretty slick.
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Old 03-09-2012, 07:34 AM
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I see that there a quite some people with HTPC knowledge in this topic and I have a question that is a little off-topic but also is close to the things that are discussed here:

Let me try to explain:

I own a D-Box system which is simply said a moving seating during movies (www.d-box.com). The seating get s it signal from a D-Box decoder (D-Box MCI-2P). This (pc-based) D-Box decoder needs to receive the ORIGINAL core dts/dd signal via optical spdif input in order to work. One can use a simple SPDIF audio card (like the Creative X-Fi surround 5.1 usb). You can connect the spdif output of the audio card to the spdif input of the d-box decoder and from the d-box decoder spdif output you connect the decoder to your avr. Simple as that eh? Of course this way you cannot enjoy dts-ma/true-hd audio.

Over the past years D-Box users have looked for a HTPC solution to be able to use d-box and high-res audio at the same time. Some cable extractors where tried but it never worked (it did not work because the condition of the D-Box decoder is that it needs to receive the core UNALTERED dd/dts signal and with all these extension cables something went wrong that just didn t make it work).

So in all these years d-box users who wanted to have d-box and high res. audio simultanuously needed to use non pc player like the Dune and Oppo player which support audio over HDMI and SPDIF at the same time.

d-box always said they where working a a HDMI decoder but it never came......

But a few month ago there was a breakthrough and a d-box user on the AVS forum managed to get it working on a HTPC! He created his own (altered) version of Media Player Classic Home Cinema and LAV filters http://htpcfordbox.over-blog.com/art...-89040282.html). With his software d-box users can now enjoy d-box and high res. audio with a htpc. However, there are some downsides:

- First of all, d-box users are limited and can only use MPC-HC and LAV filters. The biggest downside of MPC-HC is that it does not support 3D so a 3D+d-box+high res. audio is not possible.
- Next there is the author who does not update the software anymore while there has been quite a few new versions of MPC-HC and LAV filters with important fixes. I do not have acces to the source codes.

So what I m looking for is:
Dual Audio Output simultanously via HDMI and SPDIF via 2 audio devices at the same time. More specific: DTS-MA/True-HD via HDMI out of videocard and at the same time the core DTS/DD signal via a second audio card (eg. Soundblaster X-Fi surround 5.1) through SPDIF optical out.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanderdvd View Post

I see that there a quite some people with HTPC knowledge in this topic and I have a question that is a little off-topic but also is close to the things that are discussed here:

Let me try to explain:

I own a D-Box system which is simply said a moving seating during movies (www.d-box.com). The seating get s it signal from a D-Box decoder (D-Box MCI-2P). This (pc-based) D-Box decoder needs to receive the ORIGINAL core dts/dd signal via optical spdif input in order to work. One can use a simple SPDIF audio card (like the Creative X-Fi surround 5.1 usb). You can connect the spdif output of the audio card to the spdif input of the d-box decoder and from the d-box decoder spdif output you connect the decoder to your avr. Simple as that eh? Of course this way you cannot enjoy dts-ma/true-hd audio.

Over the past years D-Box users have looked for a HTPC solution to be able to use d-box and high-res audio at the same time. Some cable extractors where tried but it never worked (it did not work because the condition of the D-Box decoder is that it needs to receive the core UNALTERED dd/dts signal and with all these extension cables something went wrong that just didn t make it work).

So in all these years d-box users who wanted to have d-box and high res. audio simultanuously needed to use non pc player like the Dune and Oppo player which support audio over HDMI and SPDIF at the same time.

d-box always said they where working a a HDMI decoder but it never came......

But a few month ago there was a breakthrough and a d-box user on the AVS forum managed to get it working on a HTPC! He created his own (altered) version of Media Player Classic Home Cinema and LAV filters http://htpcfordbox.over-blog.com/art...-89040282.html). With his software d-box users can now enjoy d-box and high res. audio with a htpc. However, there are some downsides:

- First of all, d-box users are limited and can only use MPC-HC and LAV filters. The biggest downside of MPC-HC is that it does not support 3D so a 3D+d-box+high res. audio is not possible.
- Next there is the author who does not update the software anymore while there has been quite a few new versions of MPC-HC and LAV filters with important fixes. I do not have acces to the source codes.

So what I m looking for is:
Dual Audio Output simultanously via HDMI and SPDIF via 2 audio devices at the same time. More specific: DTS-MA/True-HD via HDMI out of videocard and at the same time the core DTS/DD signal via a second audio card (eg. Soundblaster X-Fi surround 5.1) through SPDIF optical out.

I think the answer is probably dual video cards and some type of custom set up.

Can you split an HDMI with a splitter, or run out of the reciever to the Dbox?

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Old 04-16-2012, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I think the answer is probably dual video cards and some type of custom set up.

Can you split an HDMI with a splitter, or run out of the reciever to the Dbox?

Thanks for your reply.

The options you suggested will not work since they are probably converting the HDMI audio into an optical digital signal. The optical digital signal will not be like the original unprocessed bitstream a Blu-ray player is normally outputting so the D-Box decoder won’t recognize the audio signal.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:04 PM
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Can you run dual video cards?

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Old 04-17-2012, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Can you run dual video cards?

yes, but a videocard has no digital optical out?
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Old 07-02-2012, 12:18 PM
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What about splitting the HDMI Output to an LCD Monitor and an LCD projector to show them simultaneosly? No, I'm not talking about a switcher or Stereo Receiver. I'm talking about splitting the HDMI Output from a Computer to an LCD Projector and LCD Monitor and have them display simultaneosly.
Thanks for your help.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:43 PM
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Guys I got a problem, pls help me solve it. Im not a wiring geek so yeah.......Firstly I have a Pionner HTZ-777DVD set. It's a built in DVD-AV receiver set. So last time I just use the HDMI cable output from my player to TV to play full HD and 5.1 surround. Now I got myself a Bluray player. Now how do I make sure I don't lose any quality of my vid and surround sound?

What I do now is connect the HDMI output from BD player to TV to play full HD. For my audio, I connect the wires from speakers to BD player and a composite wire ( red and white ) to my Pioneer player so that I can adjust audio coz that's where I can change the surround system formats.

Now, can I use a HDMI switch from one wire from BD player to the TV and my pioneer set?

(* both my dvd and BD player has only one HDMI output ports )

Thankz in advance...
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