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post #1 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

I'm not sure what's to blame here, so need some help.

I've built a new HTPC and am having the following issues with LiveTV (I haven't tried any other content yet).

1. When changing channel, it will stutter for about a second on the new channel, and then speed up/catch up and play okay. Is this likely a tuner, or graphics card issue (or something else?)

2. Sometimes when changing channel, it displays picture from the old channel for about a second (not moving, just like an image) and then plays the new channel properly. Is this likely the tuner or the graphics card again (or something else )

3. Some channels seem to be constantly stuttering, I'm not sure whether it's the camera angles that's showing or whether it's on these channels all of the time. Certainly things like football couldn't keep up. Is this a tuner problem, or a graphics issue again?

I'm currently using on board graphics. Spec is

Intel G620 2.6Ghz
ASUS P8H61-M Pro
Kingston 4GB DDR3 1333Mhz RAM
On board graphics.
TBS 6820 DUAL DVB-T2 Tuner

I do have another graphics card I can try, and also have some content I can try playing locally.

Any suggestions?
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post #2 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 06:17 AM
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I'm not sure you're seeing anything abnormal with changing channels. You certainly shouldn't be getting stuttering all the time though. Your system has plenty of horsepower to play live tv so I would check other things before you try a different video card. What resolution do you have the video card set at & what is the refresh rate? Are you using the latest video drivers?

I googled that tuner & came up with nothing, who makes that? Try playing some recorded content first like DVDs & preferably Blu-rays & see if you still have the same problem, that will rule out the tuner. If you do still have the problem then you can start troubleshooting the individual pc components.
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post #3 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The tuner is made by a company called TBS (tbsdtv.com)

I have tried a separate graphics card, which I knew worked fine in my old system (a Radeon HD5450) and still had the same problem, so I don't think it's graphics.

I'd either put it down to Tuner or codecs. I'll try some other non-tv content and see what happens.
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post #4 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 10:39 AM
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It could be the audio. The audio is "played" first before the video so make sure that your audio driver is the latest from the MOBO manufacturer.
Stutterning is normally caused when the graphics card can not keep up with input data stream which by the way is higher with fast moving content like sports.
Are you using more then one display?
What resolutions of TV signal have you tried sending to your TV?
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post #5 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 11:03 AM
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I think we're all having trouble figuring what this tuner card you're using is and what front-end s/w you're using, drivers, etc. In the US we have ATSC and you're talking about DVB-T2 which is obviously not in the US, or is it? I have nothing to add except has this card worked in other systems you've built? Have you the latest drivers? Is there another front-end, perhaps supplied from TBS that you could use to test the card? And, finally, TBS makes no mention of a model No. 6820 on their site for downloading...
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post #6 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Apologies it's the 6280. not the 6820, I must have made a typo.

The only resolution I'm using is 1920x1080. I am not using more than one display, and have had this same issue with onboard graphics, and an independant graphics card in this system (an ATI HD5450)

I'm currently using Windows Media Center on Windows 7 x64. but haven't tried another player, but can do.

I have tried re-installing the drivers for the tuner, and I have also tried the tuner in a different PCI slot. I might be able to try it in a different system and see if that works. I have been using hte latest vesion of the drivers.

I've also tried different codec packs on the off chance but that didn't help either.

I suppose the next course of action is to try the tuner in a different system, and to try a different piece of software. Would you guys agree with that?
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post #7 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this is a double post, but wanted to serparate them.

I tried another viewer, and it appeared to work fine, so I think it's a problem with Windows Media Center. Is this likely to be an incompatibility with the tuner I'm using? So could I change the tuner and it will work better, or is it more likely a Windows problem?

I have had 7MC working fine with another tuner before now.
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post #8 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 04:58 PM
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It could be the codec packs that are causing the problem. If you have access to another pc that doesn't have any codecs installed you could copy a video file that doesn't play right on your pc to the other pc & see if it works in Media Center.
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post #9 of 26 Old 01-29-2012, 05:03 PM
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Not all software that works on 32 bit systems works on 64 bit systems. Make sure you have the latest 64bit drivers from your card supplier.
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post #10 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys..

I've tried a couple of different codec packs, but that doesn't seem to be the problem, and I do have the latest x64 drivers.

I'm going to try doing a dual boot with an x86 copy of Windows, and if that plays better, I'll stick with that.
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post #11 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 07:49 AM
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You could try recording some of the channels with various behaviors and comparing their conditions during playback. Playback would be simply the codecs in action with no resources on the tuner -- have you looked at CPU/GPU usage during all of this? If no DXVA you could be trying to do all the decoding in the (limited) CPU -- aren't the G- series more GPU than CPU biased as are the AMD Llamo APU chips? Record some and try MPC-HC as a playback application - how are these playing? I think it's important to assess the usage and separate live functions from playback.

You mentioned alternate software - have you used the TBSviewer they mention in the user's manual?

What is your HDD config/allocation in WMC? Perhaps you're trying to write these live streams to a full or nearly-full HDD, or a network HDD? Do you find performance differences between progressive/interlaced video? If using the HD5450, do you have the latest Catalyst drivers loaded, Win 7 Aero ON, and the settings in the Catalyst suite set for SMOOTH video playback checked?
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post #12 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 08:27 AM
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Aero being off can cause WMC stuttering in Vista. Not sure about Win7. I would guess it's the same.
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post #13 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies.

None of the HDDs are nearly full, and all of the issues I'm having a with live playback. Most of my files are only divx rips, and they look exactly the same on my MacBook and HTPC, I think in those cases, it's just a poor file, and I've never noticed the symptoms on the smaller MacBook screen.

I haven't looked at CPU/GPU usages no, can you recommend a tool to monitor them?

The company who makes the tuner made me run a test using DVB Dream and streaming to VLC media player. I still had the same issues, but the analyser in DVB Dream showed no errors on the stream.

Below are the following things I have tried. (When I say ATI Graphics, I mean the HD5450 I have been moving between the two PCs). All GPU's have been using the latest drivers, and when from Intel to ATI and vice versa, I always uninstalled drivers.

New System - Intel Graphics, DVB-T2 tuner, Media Center - Still got issues
New System - ATI Graphics, DVB-T2 tuner, Media Center - Still got issues
New System - Intel Graphics, DVB-T2 tuner, DVB Dream and VLC - Still got issues
New System - ATI Graphics, DVB-T2 tuner, DVB Dream and VLC - Still got issues
New System - Intel Graphics, DVB-T2 tuner, TBSViewer - No issues, but very poor picture quality

(The above are exactly the same on an x64, and x86 Windows 7 Install)

Old System - ATI graphics, DVB-T Tuner, Media Center - No issues
Old System - ATI graphics, DVB-T2 tuner, Media Center - Still got issues

New System specs - Intel Pentium G620, OnBoard Intel HD Graphics, ASUS P8H61-M Pro Rev 3, BeQuiet L8 400W Modular PSU.
Old System Specs - Intel Core 2 Duo E6750, ATI Radeon HD5450, ASUS P5K-E WiFi-AP, OCZ 600W PSU

Both systems uses the same hard drive for the OS, except the new build has an extra 7200RPM Seagate Barracuda 2TB in it.

My old system works perfectly fine with my other Dual DVB-T tuner (the new one is DVB-T2). I cannot test the old tuner in my new system, as it's PCI and not PCI-E. To me, the above says that it's an issue with the tuner itself, and/or drivers.

All of the above tests were done with live TV.
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post #14 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 10:09 AM
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For some people, choosing to disable UAC (User Account Control) can be the cause of weird issues.
If you have chosen to disable UAC, try setting it to the 'Default' position, reboot, and test.

Use Shark007 Codecs and retain your sanity.
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post #15 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, Shark, I'll give that a go. I saw something about UAC causing your codecs to give weird playback issues if it WASN'T enabled. I'll turn it off and give it a go.

The only other thing worth mentioning. I just tried recording one of the channels I"m having the problem on (it's only happening on around 5 or 6 channels) and the recording showed the same performance issue.
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post #16 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 11:11 AM
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Since the recording shows the same issue it seems as if your reception is to blame, or your codec. You need to tell us more about the file you recorded, metadata using MediaInfo. ALL of this stuttering can be followed back to poor or intermittent reception. How about playback of a file that is "clean" -- tell us about one of those. Once you know your system plays back files correctly (using codecs, deinterlacing, etc.) then any other issues are reception related.

Is there a signal strength meter you can use? I think WMC has the ability to scan and tell you (at least a relative strength) in the settings under TV.
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post #17 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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WMC is telling me that I have 90% on one tuner, and 64% on the other (Dual tuner).

My system plays back other files with no issues. Apart from some divx files, but as I said before, I suspect that's a problem with the rips as opposed to the playback.

So sounds like it may be a reception issue.
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post #18 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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It appears to have started for HD files I have stored locally now.

I'm really not understanding what's going on. I am using Windows 7 Home Premium if that makes any difference, but I'm all out of ideas. Everything just appears to be random.
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post #19 of 26 Old 01-30-2012, 06:00 PM
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It certainly appears that the hardware acceleration capabiliy of your onboard grapghics can not keep up with the frame rate it is receiving. It does not appeasr to be a reception problem since the problem occurs with both live and recorded content and you are not suffering from pixelation when watching HD content.
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post #20 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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The same stuttering happens with another card in the system though, a card which I know works in my other (less spec'd) system.
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post #21 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 07:08 AM
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Please reread this thread 'cause we've given you many suggestions to assist your troubleshooting to which you've not responded. Personally, if you RECORD some of these various channels then you can PLAYBACK using various software. This is important 'cause it separates playback from tuning! Go and record something on the known GOOD system then play them back on your new one... Also, (since you're not IN the USA with that card) are there differences between those you get good & bad performance on? (e.g. format, resolution).
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post #22 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll try the above and get back to you. I'll do a couple of tests and then post.
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post #23 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xreyuk View Post

The same stuttering happens with another card in the system though, a card which I know works in my other (less spec'd) system.

Was your BIOS set to use the card you tried and not use the onboard graphics support?
Are you using the card hardware support instead of using your CPU to process HD?
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post #24 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I solved the problem for TV playback. It turns out I was being a rather big idiot. We use PAL in the UK, which is 50FPS, I had the graphics set for 60Hz. Changed to 50hz, perfect.

Still getting some stutter on files, but I'm going to look into codecs.

Thanks for the help!
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post #25 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 03:47 PM
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turning off windows aero helped me with my hauppauge colossus stuttering issue. maybe try that?
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post #26 of 26 Old 01-31-2012, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I'll give that a go.
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