*Official* PowerDVD 12 Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 265 Old 02-05-2012, 01:17 AM
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I've had a HTPC for about three years. In the beginning I had problems with HDCP. A year after the graphic card was released, a driver finally came that solved it. I then sticked to the setup I had and didn't change anything since everything worked fine. Recently I upgraded the interior. Mainly because I wanted support for HD Audio and 3D. And the problems started again. Some stuttering with playback and PowerDVD 11 sometimes doesn't want to send anything out to the receiver other then internal decoded PCM. So now I'm considering a standalone player like last time I had problems. If things are solved though, I might become a happy HTPC owner again.
Things seem to go in circle. Never ending story?

No wonder why people buy a Mac and Mac products. They just work. In the PC world things are still a mess in many ways. But a Mac is also limited (no Blu-ray drive for instance) and will not satisfy many of us.
Can someone please make something that just works!
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post #62 of 265 Old 02-05-2012, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omholt View Post

I've had a HTPC for about three years. In the beginning I had problems with HDCP. A year after the graphic card was released, a driver finally came that solved it. I then sticked to the setup I had and didn't change anything since everything worked fine. Recently I upgraded the interior. Mainly because I wanted support for HD Audio and 3D. And the problems started again. Some stuttering with playback and PowerDVD 11 sometimes doesn't want to send anything out to the receiver other then internal decoded PCM. So now I'm considering a standalone player like last time I had problems. If things are solved though, I might become a happy HTPC owner again.
Things seem to go in circle. Never ending story?

No wonder why people buy a Mac and Mac products. They just work. In the PC world things are still a mess in many ways. But a Mac is also limited (no Blu-ray drive for instance) and will not satisfy many of us.
Can someone please make something that just works!

The only way to consistently deliver something that "just works" for everyone is to lock it down.

It's possible to get a "just works" experience on the HTPC, but too often it requires knowledge (picking the right parts) and discipline (not installing lots of crap). TBC, I'm not saying that you don't have both, just that the inherent flexibility of the platform makes it impossible to deliver that experience to everyone - there are too many permutations in hardware and cruft.
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post #63 of 265 Old 02-05-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

The only way to consistently deliver something that "just works" for everyone is to lock it down.

It's possible to get a "just works" experience on the HTPC, but too often it requires knowledge (picking the right parts) and discipline (not installing lots of crap). TBC, I'm not saying that you don't have both, just that the inherent flexibility of the platform makes it impossible to deliver that experience to everyone - there are too many permutations in hardware and cruft.

Sadly this is quite true. But, there is something that a lot of people miss that makes it more difficult for commercially licensed players. And that is the amount of protection code they are required to have in order to play licensed content. AACS, anti-debugging, PAP, HDCP, BD+, Cinavia...all that crap adds to the complexity of the software. And when you add complexity, you make it easier to break things. Now throw on crappy drivers on top that constantly change, and you can start to see the challenges they face in providing a seamless "just works" playback experience. I very rarely have issues in my environment. I think most people know why that is. My point being, that it's possible to get an incredibly stable HTPC experience, but, as you said, it requires picking the right parts. And avoiding "codec packs" as much as humanly possible.
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post #64 of 265 Old 02-05-2012, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

The only way to consistently deliver something that "just works" for everyone is to lock it down.

It's possible to get a "just works" experience on the HTPC, but too often it requires knowledge (picking the right parts) and discipline (not installing lots of crap). TBC, I'm not saying that you don't have both, just that the inherent flexibility of the platform makes it impossible to deliver that experience to everyone - there are too many permutations in hardware and cruft.

Yeah, I gave Apple a good try of about three years. Sometimes it just works other times it won't let something work because of the KISS philosophy. I was too much of a geek to live within the Mac's limitations. Now everything "just works" with my PC but it took experience to make it so.
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post #65 of 265 Old 02-05-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omholt View Post

No wonder why people buy a Mac and Mac products. They just work.

Being an iOS user, and having dabbled in Macs a little, that "it just works" trope really should be "we will make you work like we want you to". It so happens that for many people, the way Apple wants them to work is an easy enough way. Nothing wrong with that.

Quote:
In the PC world things are still a mess in many ways. But a Mac is also limited (no Blu-ray drive for instance) and will not satisfy many of us.
Can someone please make something that just works!

Are you familiar with the phrase "have your cake and eat it too"? IOW, those are the weaknesses that make the systems' strengths.
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post #66 of 265 Old 02-06-2012, 06:13 AM
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You guys make good points.

Hopefully I can get everything to work again. The stuttering seems to be gone. Not sure if it was caused by a bad ATI driver or lowering the speed of discs with AnyDVD.
PowerDVD 11 still has issues with not giving me all the audio options all the time. Haven't seen that with PowerDVD 10, which states my point; They shouldn't upgrade to a newer version that has more errors.

You are welcome to send me a pm with a list of how to set up a well functional HTCP. Sorry for the off-topic.
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post #67 of 265 Old 02-06-2012, 04:21 PM
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I see now PDVD12 ultra supports DTS 7.1. I have the X-Meridan 7.1 out to my Denon amp via analog. Has anyone tested the 7.1 analog output from the new PDVD12?? Thanks.
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post #68 of 265 Old 02-06-2012, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignickfly View Post

I see now PDVD12 ultra supports DTS 7.1. I have the X-Meridan 7.1 out to my Denon amp via analog. Has anyone tested the 7.1 analog output from the new PDVD12?? Thanks.

Yes, with a Realtek ALC892.
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post #69 of 265 Old 02-06-2012, 08:06 PM
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Doesn't it only work with PAP cards though?
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post #70 of 265 Old 02-06-2012, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Doesn't it only work with PAP cards though?

Yes
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post #71 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

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Originally Posted by Andy o View Post

Doesn't it only work with PAP cards though?

Yes

Don't think that is right. It should work on non PAP cards, it is just those card's output will be limited to only 16 bit 48 khz quality.

That is how it works for Dolby Digtal True HD and DTS HD MA 5.1 in PowerDVD up to now, don't see why the 7.1 DTS, should be any different. You may not get the quality, but you should get the 7.1 positional sound. Which is probably more important as most cannot tell the difference between 16 bit 48 khz and higher qualities, whereas they can tell whether something is coming out of 8 speakers or not.
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post #72 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

Don't think that is right. It should work on non PAP cards, it is just those card's output will be limited to only 16 bit 48 khz quality.

That is how it works for Dolby Digtal True HD and DTS HD MA 5.1 in PowerDVD up to now, don't see why the 7.1 DTS, should be any different. You may not get the quality, but you should get the 7.1 positional sound. Which is probably more important as most cannot tell the difference between 16 bit 48 khz and higher qualities, whereas they can tell whether something is coming out of 8 speakers or not.

Yea, that's correct. I guess that's A definition of "works". LOL! To get unmolested 7.1, however, you need a PAP card. I agree, that the downsampling isn't a big deal *SO LONG AS NO BUGS ARE INTRODUCED*. These days, the decoders have been through hell and back with bug fixes so they're pretty solid. In any case, I do agree that you'll get 7.1 through any card that supports it, but, that it'll be downsampled, and it will also go through windows audio. I.E. it will not use wasapi exclusive mode.
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post #73 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 12:37 PM
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Oh, great, so in this area it's evolved to PowerDVD 8 capabilities then
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post #74 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 12:37 PM
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Yea, basically.
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post #75 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 01:51 PM
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Oh, great, so in this area it's evolved to PowerDVD 8 capabilities then

Erm no, that was a bug, it was not proper DTS HD MA 7.1. Cannot remember whether Cyrberlink said it was that sound was being replicated from the side speakers and sent to the rear speakers as well, or that their software was applying a mixed setting that was matrix-ing part of the side speakers sound to the rear speakers (like Dolby Pro Logic IIx does up-mixing 5.1 to 7.1). This is the first time it is being decoded properly.
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post #76 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

Erm no, that was a bug that replicated sound from the side speakers to come out of the rear speakers, was not proper DTS HD MA 7.1. This is the first time it is being decoded properly.

He's aware. He was being very sarcastic. I think it's good Cyberlink finally got around to adding 7.1 decoding support. Another player has had that for quite some time.
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post #77 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:13 PM
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He's aware. He was being very sarcastic. I think it's good Cyberlink finally got around to adding 7.1 decoding support. Another player has had that for quite some time.

Which player is that? None of the others I tried had DTS HD MA 7.1 support with PAP cards for full quality sound. Don't think any had 7.1 support for DTS either.

I believe, even though it took a long time PowerDVD is the first to support this without bitstreaming.
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post #78 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

Which player is that? None of the others I tried had DTS HD MA 7.1 support with PAP cards for full quality sound. Don't think any had 7.1 support for DTS either.

I believe, even though it took a long time PowerDVD is the first to support this without bitstreaming.

Oh definitely not. TMT has had 7.1 decoding for a LONG time. Since TMT3 at least and possibly before that if I remember right. Trust me, we use it with LAV Filters for flawless decoding in any DShow player.
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post #79 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:39 PM
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Oh definitely not. TMT has had 7.1 decoding for a LONG time. Since TMT3 at least and possibly before that if I remember right. Trust me, we use it with LAV Filters for flawless decoding in any DShow player.

So it supported full quality decoding of DTS HD MA 7.1 just via a sound card and not using bitstreaming. I ask becuase I tried it and it did not work. I don;t they to this day they even support PAP sound cards, except the exclusive Xonar one.
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post #80 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

So it supported full quality decoding of DTS HD MA 7.1 just via a sound card and not using bitstreaming. I ask becuase I tried it and it did not work. I don;t they to this day they even support PAP sound cards, except the Auzentech one.

They NEVER supported Auzentech. You're thinking of Cyberlink here. ArcSoft was in bed with Asus for the Xonar line. But what you're talking about is ancient news. They support nVidia, AMD, I believe even Intel, and Xonar for PAP. However, that PAP nonsense isn't built into the decoder. Just something to consider if you reread what I said I was using it for. In any case, they've always supported full 7.1 DTS-HD MA decoding, yes. For PAP cards, no downsampling. For non-PAP, 7.1 with downsampling. IOW, Cyberlink finally caught up to what ArcSoft has done all along.
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post #81 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:45 PM
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P.S. I really wasn't trying to turn this into an ArcSoft vs Cyberlink thing. I just wanted to point out that Cyberlink wasn't first. I'm VERY pleased they decided to add support for 7.1 decoding.
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post #82 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SamuriHL View Post

They NEVER supported Auzentech. You're thinking of Cyberlink here. ArcSoft was in bed with Asus for the Xonar line. But what you're talking about is ancient news. They support nVidia, AMD, I believe even Intel, and Xonar for PAP. However, that PAP nonsense isn't built into the decoder. Just something to consider if you reread what I said I was using it for. In any case, they've always supported full 7.1 DTS-HD MA decoding, yes. For PAP cards, no downsampling. For non-PAP, 7.1 with downsampling. IOW, Cyberlink finally caught up to what ArcSoft has done all along.

Sorry, meant the Xonar card.

As far as 7.1 DTS to PAP supporting sound cards, both my own experience and here: http://www.missingremote.com/review/...edia-theatre-5 (see PAP audio support table) say it does not work on my Realtek soundcard. It only works on bitstreaming setups to and external AV amps via HDMI, as it has for PowerDVD for a couple of versions now.

So PowerDVD 12 if the first player to my knowledge that allow me to have full resolution DTS HD MA 7.1, decoded and output via my Realtek 889 soundcard speakers. No A/V amp / HDMI connection needed, that's new. Up untill now it has been both DTS and Dolby 7.1 being allowed via bitstreaming and Dolby Digital True 7.1 being allowed on analogue sound cards (i.e in software decoding). The only thing missing has been in software decoding of DTS 7.1.
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post #83 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 02:58 PM
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All I can tell you is that it goes against what others have found. Many many people are using the ArcSoft DTS decoder as we speak to get perfect 7.1 DTS-HD MA decoded audio. I use it all the time in J River's MC17. And in that environment, as I said, PAP isn't even entering the equation. If you weren't able to get it to work, it's a bug in their player, not the decoder.
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post #84 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 03:07 PM
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Which soundcard are you using to get this, maybe it is just my soundcrad that has a problem?
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post #85 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

Which soundcard are you using to get this, maybe it is just my soundcrad that has a problem?

I have a Xonar, an nVidia 450, and AMD 5870. It works with all of them. I believe it also worked with my realtek chipset on my bedroom machine's mobo, but, I couldn't really test it as I only have 5.1 output from that. Nonetheless, the soundcard makes no difference to the decoder part. If it's non-PAP, it will output 7.1 if your card is capable. *HOWEVER*, where most people make their mistake is that non-PAP is NOT exclusive mode. That means that if you set up windows audio to 5.1 or whatever, that's what you'll get. With PAP, anything 48/24 or higher will use exclusive mode and bypass windows audio.
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post #86 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 03:50 PM
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I take it your Xonar, Nvidia and AMD videocards are connected via HDMI to and amplifier?
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post #87 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

I take it your Xonar, Nvidia and AMD videocards are connected via HDMI to and amplifier?

Yes. But it makes no difference. Again, we've verified this at the decoder level. And as I said, if TMT itself didn't allow you to output 7.1 with your card, there's a bug in their player or something else is wrong. Cause I know for a fact that it decodes 7.1 regardless.
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post #88 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakmal View Post

That is the MoovieLive DLL right? In PDVD12, it is possible to turn off all the MoovieLive features / skip installing it. (except for one case when you try to resume Blu-ray playback after completely stopping the previous playback session -- and that fetches new movie information, not really MoovieLive).

There's been a switch since 11 to turn off ML. No issues with this 12 build they sure cluttered the hell out of the UI that's for sure. Amazing how much crap they can cram into a friggin player.
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post #89 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by harvey13matt View Post

Erm no, that was a bug, it was not proper DTS HD MA 7.1. Cannot remember whether Cyrberlink said it was that sound was being replicated from the side speakers and sent to the rear speakers as well, or that their software was applying a mixed setting that was matrix-ing part of the side speakers sound to the rear speakers (like Dolby Pro Logic IIx does up-mixing 5.1 to 7.1). This is the first time it is being decoded properly.

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He's aware. He was being very sarcastic. I think it's good Cyberlink finally got around to adding 7.1 decoding support. Another player has had that for quite some time.

The "great" was sarcastic, but I meant the 7.1 thing. PowerDVD 8 (at least until the build I used, 2217) supported 7.1 decoding of DTS-HD MA. I tested it then, and I just tested it again. Discrete decoding. I don't know if they took it out on one of the later builds, which for various reasons or bugs were unusable to me, but they definitely took it out with PowerDVD 9. I don't know if CL ever said it was a "bug" either. Any source for that, harvey?
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post #90 of 265 Old 02-07-2012, 08:55 PM
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I gotta say I'm kind of relieved that there are others here that have resorted to buying a separate standalone BD player. Well, relieved that I'm not the only one, but pissed off at Cyberlink.

I bought PowerDVD 8 and it played Blu-rays fine for a while. The only reason I decided on building a HTPC with a BD-ROM was so I didn't have to buy a PS3 or a standalone player. Now Cyberlink has cut support for PowerDVD 8 and is forcing me to pay $50 for an upgrade just so I can play the newer discs. I feel totally gypped. And I imagine they will do the same for 10, 11, 12, and so on.

I can buy a decent Panasonic player for just a little over the price of the upgrade, and I won't ever have to pay Panasonic again to be able to play a newer disc. Cyberlink's scammy "subscription" model totally defeats the purpose of having an all-in-one HTPC.

Arg! Sorry, just venting. I'm just hoping that everyone reading this knows that eventually Cyberlink will cut off support for PowerDVD 12 and you'll keep having to pay $60+ to be able to play new releases.

Off to buy a standalone Blu-ray player...
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